Current Events > Man explains the differences between RICH and POOR lifestyles!!

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Zeeak4444 posted...

So to be clear here, you believe that the opportunity presents itself to everyone whos not in a poor mindset?

Cause thats the only way anything youve said to me makes sense. You keep telling us what its not but youre not really telling us what it is.

Opportunity does oresent itself to everyone. Whether or not you are prepared or take advantage is based on your thinking.

I dont see how this is so hard to understand.

Example. I want to be a bologists. In my freetime i study animals and read a lot of biology books instead of spending most of my time on bullshit. I sacrifice. I study hard enough to qualify for a good school. I excel in school. I network with in school and meet heavy weights in my field. I make a good impression because ive learned how to do so. I get to work with one of them. Boom, im a biologist.

Or you could just focus on how biology is hard and your're are poor so you cant study as hard as rich kids and spend your days whining about how people who are ahead got there simply because they are lucky and inherited a good education
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A wise man once said

Lifestyles of the rich and the famous
They're always complainin'
Always complainin'
If money is such a problem
Well they got mansions

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What's so weird about that list is it has almost no relation to whether you are rich or poor. You could be born into wealth and just learn nothing and watch Netflix all day and you wouldn't be poor. Assuming you invested you would actually die richer having learned nothing and done nothing but watch Netflix your whole life. You could also be poor and do all the things he said and still be poor because you were born in a situation without an opportunity to become rich. And before you talk about some Americans bootstraps stuff, realize the vast majority of poor people are not born in America.

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StealthRock posted...

No goal post was moved. I hope you realize that learning means learning the thing you want to be good at.

If someone says in order to be a great doctor you must keep learning, I would hope that you wouldnt thinking learning all the pokemon moves would count...

By that logic, colleges shouldn't have general ed requirements. Why take a math class if you want to be a writer?

StealthRock posted...

Csnt you prove that??

Or does it just work because Trump is already rich?

Like dumping a massive amount of money into a 401k would most certainly yield impressive results. Doesnt mean its more effective than owning everything Trump does.

Trump is wealthy, not just rich. 401k does not make you wealthy and in most cases it doesnt make you rich either

If Trump had taken every penny his dad left him and put it all in a 401k, he would be richer than he is now, and wouldn't have had to do a damn thing.

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Its FUNNY how you can tell which post is a TROLL attempt because of the way they CAPITALIZE words to make them SUPER SERIOUS, but in all reality theyre only trying to get a RISE out of people.

StealthRock posted...

HylianFox posted...

StealthRock posted...

There is no 1 pathway to success

this. the commonly repeated refrain of "poor people are just too lazy and stupid to become rich" is getting old

I agree

I dont think most poor people are lazy and stupid. Theu are just not finacially informed.

We all learn things. But whether or not those things help to make us finacially successful is another story.

if everyone on the planet were "financially informed", there would not magically be fewer poor people. there would just be more poor people who are "financially informed"
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It's amazing what a response these rich vs poor threads get on here, as well as how unpopular you are for having certain views/mindsets on the topic of the ability to create one's own future/wealth/etc.

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Irony posted...

Stopped reading at the rich never stop learning

Yeah. Did Shapiro write this...?
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jumi posted...

StealthRock posted...

No goal post was moved. I hope you realize that learning means learning the thing you want to be good at.

If someone says in order to be a great doctor you must keep learning, I would hope that you wouldnt thinking learning all the pokemon moves would count...

By that logic, colleges shouldn't have general ed requirements. Why take a math class if you want to be a writer?

StealthRock posted...

Csnt you prove that??

Or does it just work because Trump is already rich?

Like dumping a massive amount of money into a 401k would most certainly yield impressive results. Doesnt mean its more effective than owning everything Trump does.

Trump is wealthy, not just rich. 401k does not make you wealthy and in most cases it doesnt make you rich either

If Trump had taken every penny his dad left him and put it all in a 401k, he would be richer than he is now, and wouldn't have had to do a damn thing.

Missing the point and apples and oranges. There are no writers that dont know basic math. Learn to logic.

And to be quite honest, most qen ed courses beyond basic life knowledge are a waste of money in the fact that they costs students thousands to learn something that they wont use after the class. But thats beside the point.

And show me proof that putting money in a retirement account would yield Trump more "Wealth" than he currently has. Wealth is not the same a cash. Most people who think like Trump pursue assets over cash. Cash comes from the assets. A 401k is not an asset. Since you dont own, control, or nor does it pay you for owning it. Most 401ks are predicted to go down the toilet in the future. How is that a better investment than owning 5star hotels and boasting your brand by becoming the friggin president?
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gunplagirl posted...

A wise man once said

Lifestyles of the rich and the famous
They're always complainin'
Always complainin'
If money is such a problem
Well they got mansions

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Sounds like the guy just read Rich Dad, Poor Dad. The biggest difference between those who become rich and those who don't is one side commits to learning how to invest and make money. Yes, there are people who have the advantage of time and more resources to start investing and have direct resources to learn. But don't let that stop you from jumping in and learning to invest. Right now, we're on the brink of the Fourth Industrial Revolution, the greatest creation of wealth ever recorded, thanks to distributed ledger technology (powered by Chainlink).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pl8OlkkwRpc" data-time="
https://blog.chain.link/interoperability-and-connectivity-unlocking-smart-contracts-3-0-2/
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Godnorgosh posted...

StealthRock posted...

Zeeak4444 posted...

So to be clear here, you believe that the opportunity presents itself to everyone whos not in a poor mindset?

Cause thats the only way anything youve said to me makes sense. You keep telling us what its not but youre not really telling us what it is.

Opportunity does oresent itself to everyone. Whether or not you are prepared or take advantage is based on your thinking.

I dont see how this is so hard to understand.

Example. I want to be a bologists. In my freetime i study animals and read a lot of biology books instead of spending most of my time on bullshit. I sacrifice. I study hard enough to qualify for a good school. I excel in school. I network with in school and meet heavy weights in my field. I make a good impression because ive learned how to do so. I get to work with one of them. Boom, im a biologist.

Or you could just focus on how biology is hard and your're are poor so you cant study as hard as rich kids and spend your days whining about how people who are ahead got there simply because they are lucky and inherited a good education

You realize most biologists are not rich, even if they're excellent biologists, right? The same is true of most people with PhDs who studied and worked very hard to earn their credentials. Becoming rich does not just correlate with hard work in the same way that studying to become a biologist or earning a PhD does. It's highly dependent on circumstance.

I never said biologists are rich....jeezus kriste
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Is this Stealthrock guy rich then, or is it merely his choice not to be?
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averagejoel posted...

if everyone on the planet were "financially informed", there would not magically be fewer poor people. there would just be more poor people who are "financially informed"

@StealthRock
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Godnorgosh posted...

StealthRock posted...

Godnorgosh posted...

StealthRock posted...

Zeeak4444 posted...

So to be clear here, you believe that the opportunity presents itself to everyone whos not in a poor mindset?

Cause thats the only way anything youve said to me makes sense. You keep telling us what its not but youre not really telling us what it is.

Opportunity does oresent itself to everyone. Whether or not you are prepared or take advantage is based on your thinking.

I dont see how this is so hard to understand.

Example. I want to be a bologists. In my freetime i study animals and read a lot of biology books instead of spending most of my time on bullshit. I sacrifice. I study hard enough to qualify for a good school. I excel in school. I network with in school and meet heavy weights in my field. I make a good impression because ive learned how to do so. I get to work with one of them. Boom, im a biologist.

Or you could just focus on how biology is hard and your're are poor so you cant study as hard as rich kids and spend your days whining about how people who are ahead got there simply because they are lucky and inherited a good education

You realize most biologists are not rich, even if they're excellent biologists, right? The same is true of most people with PhDs who studied and worked very hard to earn their credentials. Becoming rich does not just correlate with hard work in the same way that studying to become a biologist or earning a PhD does. It's highly dependent on circumstance.

I never said biologists are rich....jeezus kriste

Yet your analogy is dependent on the notion that sacrifice and hard work alone make you rich just like they enable you to become a biologist. I call bullshit on that equivalence. There are absolutely other factors involved, and anyone who notices how much adjunct professors work, study and sacrifice on a regular basis for less than a living wage can see that.

Whatever
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If everyone was equally equiped to earn money, they would make about $18,000 a year (using an admittedly overly generous estimation for lack of a better source). Since that's the world's average income. How far can that rich mentality take them on $18,000 a year?

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-17512040

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Why be rich when I can be happy?
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As someone who went to a college with a large number of trust fund kids, this is just lol worthy in how wrong it is.

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Damn_Underscore posted...

The rich pay themselves first while the poor pay themselves last - Rich guy makes sure to save $500 every paycheck no matter what, poor guy doesn't worry about saving money.

lol
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Irony posted...

Stopped reading at the rich never stop learning

The rich and those in the upper middle class tend to not stop learning unless they are an SJW who's addicted to Twitter and places like Resetera, not all rich and upper class are this.
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I mean, are there people who are poor coz they had the wrong mindset and squandered their resources? Absolutely.

But there are also those who did everything right or as best they could and just have bad luck or challenging circumstances

Just as there are rich people who earned their wealth, and others who simply had massive resources poured into them to begin with
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This was supposed to be intentionally awful, right
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MachineJaipur posted...

Damn_Underscore posted...

Rich guy makes sure to save $500

i don't know if TC's video knows what rich is

DuranOfForcena posted...

Damn_Underscore posted...

The rich never stop learning - Poor guy watches Netflix for hours when he gets home, Rich guy studies every day for additional accreditations

lmfao

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In all fairness its not the first time Ive heard the line about poor people just consume media mindlessly. Shrug.

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i'm not even gonna waste my time on that vid. the thumbnail got the rich and poor text wrong!
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StealthRock posted...

And show me proof that putting money in a retirement account would yield Trump more "Wealth" than he currently has. Wealth is not the same a cash. Most people who think like Trump pursue assets over cash. Cash comes from the assets. A 401k is not an asset. Since you dont own, control, or nor does it pay you for owning it. Most 401ks are predicted to go down the toilet in the future. How is that a better investment than owning 5star hotels and boasting your brand by becoming the friggin president?

https://fortune.com/2015/08/20/donald-trump-index-funds/


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jumi posted...

StealthRock posted...

And show me proof that putting money in a retirement account would yield Trump more "Wealth" than he currently has. Wealth is not the same a cash. Most people who think like Trump pursue assets over cash. Cash comes from the assets. A 401k is not an asset. Since you dont own, control, or nor does it pay you for owning it. Most 401ks are predicted to go down the toilet in the future. How is that a better investment than owning 5star hotels and boasting your brand by becoming the friggin president?

https://fortune.com/2015/08/20/donald-trump-index-funds/

This is true for many other fabulously rich people as well.

Index funds won't make you rich, but they'll sure as fuck keep you rich.
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Jabodie posted...

jumi posted...

StealthRock posted...

And show me proof that putting money in a retirement account would yield Trump more "Wealth" than he currently has. Wealth is not the same a cash. Most people who think like Trump pursue assets over cash. Cash comes from the assets. A 401k is not an asset. Since you dont own, control, or nor does it pay you for owning it. Most 401ks are predicted to go down the toilet in the future. How is that a better investment than owning 5star hotels and boasting your brand by becoming the friggin president?

https://fortune.com/2015/08/20/donald-trump-index-funds/

This is true for many other fabulously rich people as well.

Index funds won't make you rich, but they'll sure as fuck keep you rich.

So then the question is why is it true??

Because the implication being made is that 401ks make people rich, which is far far from the truth

Not to mention i asked about wealth, not just money. A 401k will not make Donald Trump wealthier than he is now. The article (ad ridden as it is) simply states he would have multiplied his money if he had invested it all in the 401k in the 80s because of inflation. Anyone who starts investing at a young age will make money over 30 years. But having your money locked into a 401k is not a wealth building strategy many wealthy people would recommend
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StealthRock posted...

So then the question is why is it true??

Because the implication being made is that 401ks make people rich, which is far far from the truth

Not to mention i asked about wealth, not just money. A 401k will not make Donald Trump wealthier than he is now. The article (ad ridden as it is) simply states he would have multiplied his money if he had invested it all in the 401k in the 80s because of inflation. Anyone who starts investing at a young age will make money over 30 years. But having your money locked into a 401k is not a wealth building strategy many wealthy people would recommend

Investing in index funds is not the same as putting money into a 401k. These kinds of studies have been done my financial experts all the time, and index investments can be sold as needed for when you need cash. And investments are not money (including index funds and 401ks) are investments, not money, which is "wealth." Although, with a lot of wealth, you will probably be hiring a broker to match indexes manually so that they can protect you from taxes, but the fees should not be substantial enough to go from 1,336% to 300%.

For instance, here is another, perhaps more illustrative study:

https://assetbuilder.com/knowledge-center/articles/would-index-funds-keep-pace-with-the-forbes-400-richest

If, in 1982, he had invested that $100 million in the S&P 500, he could have followed the 4 percent rule. That means he could have withdrawn an inflation adjusted 4 percent of his portfolio every yearand never worked again. Obviously, this didnt align with his ambition, but roll with this for a moment.

According to portfoliovisualizer.com, over the following 37 years, he could have withdrawn about $270 million from his original $100 million portfolio. And he would still have money left. In fact, he would have about $3.17 billion today. According to Forbes, thats more than he has now.

So he could have not managed his money making at all, had $270 million in pretax spending dollars over the last 37 years (which is certainly enough to live well), and still be just as rich as he is today.

It is not impossible to beat indexing funding if you are actually intelligent and efficient. In the same article, Gates and Buffet were both shown to have greatly beaten simple index fund investment growth - by quite a lot. In theory, anybody that is not inept should be able to do this. The fact is Trump (and other rich people) would have been more wealthy today had he simply not actively managed his money (which is essentially what index investing is). His participation effectively lowered his wealth if we consider index investing a baseline. So it is true that opportunities can and will come up for you to beat the market if you are a smart businessman or a smart investor. But falling far behind the S&P implies you are neither of those.

For instance, the richest 500 people in the world change frequently. However, studies have shown that once you are there, the easiest way to remain there is to simple index investment of your wealth.

The reason why index funds keep people rich, but will not make the poor rich, is the simple math behind compound interest. If you have enough money to start, you will make far more money far more quickly. The key is to make a lot of money by some other means, but mindless index investing will keep you there unless you spend egregious amounts.

The simple fact is that wealth is not hard to keep, and a much higher level of competence and financial intelligence is required to get rich than to stay rich.
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To put it in another way: between 1982 and 2019, Trump would have had make money at a slower rate than doing effectively nothing at all, while having 270 million pretax dollars in spending money (i.e. does not have to go into any money making projects - could just be food, housing, hookers, blow, etc.) to be poorer than he is now.
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Jabodie posted...

Edit: Another thing to note: that $100 million in 1982 is worth about $266 million in today's dollars. So it is not just inflation; by doing nothing (but still have millions to live on and spend) he would be over ten times richer than when he started. Now, the power of indexing was not as widely understood as it is now, but the option was available at that period in time.

I suppose the question StealthRock is asking is which is more valuable, the money he could have made doing nothing, or becoming a historical figure and a cultural icon?
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Damn_Underscore posted...

The rich pay themselves first while the poor pay themselves last - Rich guy makes sure to save $500 every paycheck no matter what, poor guy doesn't worry about saving money.

Well this is just dumb. Poor people literally do not have $500 to save from every paycheck, after accounting for living expenses, gas, car maintenance, groceries, etc.

Anybody who can legitimately afford to take $500 out of their paycheck towards savings probably wouldn't be classified as poor.

And this ties into my larger argument: you need money to build money. It's easy to just tell people to invest and save. But that's almost impossible to do if you don't have any money to put away in the first place. Wages simply have not caught up with cost of living in most areas.
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some of these are untrue, while others are true but are getting the causation backwards

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Sad_Face posted...

I suppose the question StealthRock is asking is which is more valuable, the money he could have made doing nothing, or becoming a historical figure and a cultural icon?

On this particular point, he was refuting the idea that it is easier to become significantly richer if you are already rich. This is demonstrably true through simple mathematics, and has been proven true a multitude of times in financial circles. It is fine if he believes what you said, but it is extremely misguided to dismiss that it is getting rich that is most difficult, and staying rich is much easier.

This ignores the fact that, by being rich, you will most likely network with other rich people making opportunities on a frequent basis. Of course this requires good judgement, but ultimately you can always risk a significant portion of your wealth while still maintaining a significant growing portion in active investment. But, as a rich person, it is likely if you have a new idea you can help fund it yourself, or have friends and confidantes that may go in with you. As a poor person, it is likely you need to appeal to these people who are not your friends, and that your friends have little to no money to risk on business propositions.

A poor person, in the end, has to spend much more of his/her income on life maintenance: food, water, rent, etc. This isn't to say that it is impossible to grow wealth if they have access or are led to information on basic financial intelligence. But, in the end, having a cushion of wealth in safe investments greatly increases your ability to put your money into riskier, but more rewarding financial opportunities, and mistakes will be far more punishing if you're born poor vs. if you're born rich. To illustrate, Trump went bankrupt on six of his businesses, in debt north of hundreds of millions of dollars, and is still a billionaire. Tbh, Trump may have worked hard on those businesses. But somebody born of modest means may lose everything if their one, fairly modest business runs into trouble, maybe due to an economic downturn of an unforeseen technology advancement that was essentially unpredictable to them (maybe a local cab company owner before Uber hit the scene).

Now, I believe that it is indeed possible for people to become millionaires (net worth wise) if they learn basic tenants of financial intelligence and are fairly disciplined in their spending habits. And I also do believe opportunities are there for people that look for it, and for people that have a growth mindset. And it is important to encourage people to learn about money: saving, investing, assets, liabilities, debt, etc. But it is not the same game for the rich and poor.

Edit: Another important factor: things like sudden medical debt and other emergency costs partially outside of individual control will have a massive, massive impact on poorer individuals. This can effectively delete years of diligent saving and spending discipline and result in debt.
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Jabodie posted...

Sad_Face posted...

I suppose the question StealthRock is asking is which is more valuable, the money he could have made doing nothing, or becoming a historical figure and a cultural icon?

On this particular point, he was refuting the idea that it is easier to become significantly richer if you are already rich. This is demonstrably true through simple mathematics, and has been proven true a multitude of times in financial circles. It is fine if he believes what you said, but it is extremely misguided to dismiss that it is getting rich that is most difficult, and staying rich is much easier.

This ignores the fact that, by being rich, you will most likely network with other rich people making opportunities on a frequent basis. Of course this requires good judgement, but ultimately you can always risk a significant portion of your wealth while still maintaining a significant growing portion in active investment. But, as a rich person, it is likely if you have a new idea you can help fund it yourself, or have friends and confidantes that may go in with you. As a poor person, it is likely you need to appeal to these people who are not your friends, and that your friends have little to no money to risk on business propositions.

A poor person, in the end, has to spend much more of his/her income on life maintenance: food, water, rent, etc. This isn't to say that it is impossible to grow wealth if they have access or are led to information on basic financial intelligence. But, in the end, having a cushion of wealth in safe investments greatly increases your ability to put your money into riskier, but more rewarding financial opportunities, and mistakes will be far more punishing if you're born poor vs. if you're born rich. To illustrate, Trump went bankrupt on six of his businesses, in debt north of hundreds of millions of dollars, and is still a billionaire. Tbh, Trump may have worked hard on those businesses. But somebody born of modest means may lose everything if their one, fairly modest business runs into trouble, maybe due to an economic downturn of an unforeseen technology advancement that was essentially unpredictable to them (maybe a local cab company owner before Uber hit the scene).

Now, I believe that it is indeed possible for people to become millionaires (net worth wise) if they learn basic tenants of financial intelligence and are fairly disciplined in their spending habits. And I also do believe opportunities are there for people that look for it, and for people that have a growth mindset. And it is important to encourage people to learn about money: saving, investing, assets, liabilities, debt, etc. But it is not the same game for the rich and poor.

Edit: Another important factor: things like sudden medical debt and other emergency costs partially outside of individual control will have a massive, massive impact on poorer individuals. This can effectively delete years of diligent saving and spending discipline and result in debt.

This is a very nice summation that addresses both empirical events and larger societal factors :)

Jabodie posted...

Very nice break down. Thank you
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