Current Events > The Sword/Shield hate train sure died fast huh

(+) Yeah! (+)

Blue_Inigo posted...

Are you saying XY is better than SM? Hell no!

I'm talking about the generation. Omega/Alpha was the real star of that generation.


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soulunison2 posted...

the game is for kids the appeal for competitive Pokmon (the meta) was tailored by grown ass men lmao

Pokemon Red was for kids, and somehow Gary Oak and his Arcanine that still knew Ember for some unfathomable reason was more difficult than 99% of the 3DS era. >_>

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AlisLandale posted...

Pokemon Red was for kids, and somehow Gary Oak and his Arcanine that still knew Ember for some unfathomable reason was more difficult than 99% of the 3DS era. >_>

cuz we were kids lmao we didnt know half the shit we do now + that was gamefreaks first Pokmon game the whole damn thing was a mess

Some of the Gym Leaders in Sw/Sh use legitimate competitive strategies.

One of them Protect stalled my Dynamaxed pokemon
Another abused intimidate repeatedly

They weren't hard, but the attempt at strategy was appreciated.

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soulunison2 posted...

cuz we were kids lmao we didnt know half the shit we do now + that was gamefreaks first Pokmon game the whole damn thing was a mess

You keep saying when we were kids as if players dont regularly replay these games.

Red is still consistently more engaging in terms of difficulty than my current playthrough of X.

Granted, thats because of a generally underpowered roster, a high grind curve, and long extended routes or caves that run you through a gauntlet with limited healing options...

but the fact that 30 years later they havent only not been able to make the difficulty more engaging, but regressed it to something even more brain dead, is telling <_<

Mt Moon alone was more tense than Reflection Cave or the Pokeball factory lol.

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AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

Dexit was a huge nothingburger lol

This is the first Pokemon game I have played since Red, and I am having a great time. 13 hours in, just got my 3rd badge. I totally forgot how exciting it was when you start a brand new pokemon journey, I was hooked right away. So many ridiculous Pokemon now. My biggest complaint so far is there are just too many Pokemon, it is hard trying to pick my favorites for my team! Difficulty has been pretty easy, but I don't think Red got all that hard until like the 6th gym battle, unless you picked Charmander first, took me for god damn ever to beat Brock and Misty on my very first play through at 8 years old... I have also spent a ton of time just exploring around, probably over-leveling for the story.

This thing that I dont care about was a nothingburger, mainly cause I havent played in 20 years and didnt know anything about the Pokmon that were removed.

That sum it up ya?
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I'm in the minority here, but I think they should pull another Black/White and use an entirely new roster.

One thing I really like about a truncated Pokedex is it forces you to experiment. I'm legitimately surprised how often I rely on Perrserker, a pokemon with a terrible BST but perfect stat distribution, pure Steel typing and a good ability in Tough Claws.


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Aren't there like no real dungeons? It seems like it got the same problem as modern wow in that regard. Instead of big expansive dungeons with lots of areas to explore, it just has a bunch of hallways.
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DarkRoast posted...

I'm in the minority here, but I think they should pull another Black/White and use an entirely new roster.

One thing I really like about a truncated Pokedex is it forces you to experiment. I'm legitimately surprised how often I rely on Perrserker, a pokemon with a terrible BST but perfect stat distribution, pure Steel typing and a good ability in Tough Claws.

i think RSE had close to the perfect balance. It skewed towards new Pokmon while still maintaining a decent mix of old ones.

my only problem is that I reallt dont like most of the new Pokemon until Ive gotten halfway through the game, which makes replays rough >_>

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refmon posted...

Blue_Inigo posted...
If you didnt expect the negativity to be drowned out by the Fanboy defence force then idk what to tell ya. Pokmon fans were going to buy it no matter what.

I said that lol


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AlisLandale posted...

You keep saying when we were kids as if players dont regularly replay these games.

Red is still consistently more engaging in terms of difficulty than my current playthrough of X.

Granted, thats because of a generally underpowered roster, a high grind curve, and long extended routes or caves that run you through a gauntlet with limited healing options...

but the fact that 30 years later they havent only not been able to make the difficulty more engaging, but regressed it to something even more brain dead, is telling <_<

Mt Moon alone was more tense than Reflection Cave or the Pokeball factory lol.

red is only difficult (+nostalgia) because of the limitations of the mechanics, theres no natures, no held items, ghost + dragons are op etc etc, its not a regression of difficulty as much as its an increase of gameplay mechanics that basically helped the game

i dont think Pokmon has changed much in years and I as you started with red, and I know that its a huge mess of a game / as more things are added the games become inherently easier - thats basically it

Red and Blue and Gold and Silver are weirdly programmed and have flaws but they have a hundred times the thought and soul put into them compared to just about every other entry in the series outside of maybe the B/W games that tried to do something different

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ultimate reaver posted...

Red and Blue and Gold and Silver are weirdly programmed and have flows but they have a hundred times the thought and soul put into them compared to just about every other entry in the series outside of maybe the B/W games that tried to do something different

that's just nostalgia talk imo, I have a fondness for Ruby + Sapphire but I don't go around saying stuff like this lol, ffs I haven't touch a game since BW2 just cuz the rest of the series looks generic af, Sw/Sh is my first game in a while and I had fun

That is regression.

the addition of gameplay mechanics without updating the balance to accommodate for them is still a regression of difficulty. You havent disproved anything, merely given a reason for it.

And again, more than that, the games very design of new games work against it.

The mid-late game dungeon in Red was Silph Co.

the mid-late game dungeons in X were the power plant (a literal straight line) and the Pokeball Factory, with all the complexity of hitting a single switch that you were linearly walked to by game design.

Silph and the Factory both had healers, though at least in Silph you had to work to find her. In the Pokeball factory there is exactly one door you cant miss, after like three or four battles.

The game design is regressing in addition to the lack of balance accommodation for new mechanics

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It did not die lol. It got worse. The game is corrupting SD cards, bricking Switches, and trapping TVs in a boot loop. Combine that with the model situation, modders already adding in missing pokemon, and the game itself. The game is getting shit on.

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AlisLandale posted...

That is regression.

the addition of gameplay mechanics without updating the balance to accommodate for them is still a regression of difficulty. You havent disproved anything, merely given a reason for it.

And again, more than that, the games very design of new games work against it.

The mid-late game dungeon in Red was Silph Co.

the mid-late game dungeons in X were the power plant (a literal straight line) and the Pokeball Factory, with all the complexity of hitting a single switch that you were linearly walked to by game design.

Silph and the Factory both had healers, though at least in Silph you had to work to find her. In the Pokeball factory there is exactly one door you cant miss, after like three or four battles.

The game design is regressing in addition to the lack of balance accommodation for new mechanics

I haven't played X/Y so I can't say much to that (like I said I stopped after b/w 2)

also, the healers in silph didn't matter much when you can just literally exit the dungeon after every battle and go to the pokemon center lol, if anything you can save that trip by saving in front of a fight and quitting after, trying again

which you can do in a lot of games

You stopped during the DS era, which many consider to be the peak of the franchise.

the 3DS era, the one you admit to having not played, is the one people are most at odds with in terms of stagnation and laziness.

yes, you can cheese any dungeon in Pokmon by leaving for a Pokmon center.

but the dungeons by design discourage this because backtracking unnecessarily through Silph or Rock Tunnel is a pain in the ass. Combined with a natural instinct to push forward when you think youre making progress in spite of your poor condition, with routes that you dont know are optional that may lead you into more battles that youre trying to avoid, adds tension that doesnt exist in the 3DS era.

the availability of options with how to tackle an area is a layer of difficulty that again, doesnt exist in later games because the designers literally think that if the games get too hard then 4 year olds are going to forget about their Nintendo and go play on the phone. >_>

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soulunison2 posted...

that's just nostalgia talk imo, I have a fondness for Ruby + Sapphire but I don't go around saying stuff like this lol, ffs I haven't touch a game since BW2 just cuz the rest of the series looks generic af, Sw/Sh is my first game in a while and I had fun

its not nostalgia, its just basic facts. red and blue created the basic formula And gold and silver added an enormous amount of mechanics and has more content in it than most video games in general. Both were way more adventurous and experimental and interesting than anything that came after it. Black and White attempted to change the infinitely-retread story and make it more interesting or at the very least different and was harder than the other games at that point in time

everything else is just the same game over and over again that people try to defend by bringing up things nobody except competitive meta nerds could ever care about like adding a type or moving around stats or changing the way a handful of moves work. pokemon is where creativity goes to die and thats why almost everything people are upset about with this one comes off as completely laughable

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I haven't played a pokemon game since gen 4 but it looks interesting. I might buy it.

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soulunison2 posted...

cuz we were kids lmao we didnt know half the shit we do now + that was gamefreaks first Pokmon game the whole damn thing was a mess

Kids could handle Ultra Necrozma and Totem Lurantis just 2 years ago, they could handle traversing through Silph Co or Mt Moon just last year, not to mention othermore complex (by pokemon standards) dungeons like Mt Coronet, Twist Mountain, or Victory Road (the BW2 and XY versions, to be precise). I'll admit I'm having trouble in a few battles, which I really like, but that's mostly because I'm deliberately underleveling myself and avoiding many trainers.

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I don't hate it, but I won't be buying it either. I want better for this series than what we got.

PopOutAtYoParty posted...

or maybe people stop caring about shitty games and the shills are going to shill no matter what

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Wait for the superior hacks

I can't believe they got rid of the GTS. That's the biggest flaw right there.
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It's a game directed primarily for children, of course its handholdy.

AlisLandale posted...

That is regression.

the addition of gameplay mechanics without updating the balance to accommodate for them is still a regression of difficulty. You havent disproved anything, merely given a reason for it.

And again, more than that, the games very design of new games work against it.

The mid-late game dungeon in Red was Silph Co.

the mid-late game dungeons in X were the power plant (a literal straight line) and the Pokeball Factory, with all the complexity of hitting a single switch that you were linearly walked to by game design.

Silph and the Factory both had healers, though at least in Silph you had to work to find her. In the Pokeball factory there is exactly one door you cant miss, after like three or four battles.

The game design is regressing in addition to the lack of balance accommodation for new mechanics

As far as mid-late game dungeons go you're forgetting the powerplant and the seafoam islands in Red, I would consider the cinnabar island mansion a dungeon also. Two of these had actual exploration in them that rewarded you with two legendary pokemon that you would knowing nothing about if you didn't explore and do puzzles, so I definitely would say 1st gen had a better design to if even if the mechanics were broken as hell. They at least put a sense of wonder to it and this isn't just nostalgia speaking.

I saw/heard enough for me to decide I will not be buying the game, and rather than sit around and bitch more about it, I'd rather just move along to stuff I do enjoy.
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My wife and i both were unhappy with the direction the games are headed. I was upset with the dex cut some I like transferring teams up after beating the story, and she said she doesn't think the games look like they're worth $60. So for we're more than happy playing Pokemon Go for now.

We'll probably pick up some used copies of SwSh in a few weeks/months to check out the new Pokemon, but for now eh.
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Biggest issue with the game is it feels like handheld game that just got ported to a console IMO. It's 2019 and you release a major franchise game on consoles with no voice acting? The animations seem rather basic as well, the game does not feel like it was built from the ground up on the Switch to me. It feels more like they just reused tons and tons of assets from the 3DS games, and this is coming from someone who hasn't played a pokemon game since the originals back in the day.

As far as I can tell the series hasn't made any steps forward since the original games, at least not in a significant way. The entirety of Sword and Shield should have been open world like the wild lands, it's not like they couldn't of gotten help since Nintendo has done Xenoblade and BotW.

And I realize it's a kids series, but the difficulty is down right insulting. Would it really be that much more for them to include a hard mode at the very least? I expect even the most simplistic child friendly plots to at least make sense in terms of what's happening in the game. Your "rival" is so laughably pathetic I don't know how they could even expect a 6 year old kid to take him seriously. How is it believable that a scrub like Hop can even earn the first gym badge, let alone all of them?

This dude uses a sheep pokemon the entire game and just gets one shot by everything, and he keeps acting like he's hot **** even though he hasn't wiped a single pokemon of yours out the entire game. I assume this is pretty normal for a pokemon game, but again I haven't played since the original games. Anyway I beat it at 13 hours, don't think I'll be getting back into it.
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KainFourteh posted...

It's a game directed primarily for children, of course its handholdy.

Explain Breath of the Wild then.
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I was pretty worried I wouldn't like the game but I just beat it at about 38 hours in.

I would give it an 8 out of 10. I've enjoyed it quite a lot. More than SM or XY and I think I'll be playing it for a while. I hope they fix the problems for the DP remakes.

Good:
-I've been engrossed in the game pretty well.
-The wild area gives you a lot to do and I really enjoy spending time there. Max raids are fun.
-Great fun new designs for the new Pokemon (and also humans)
-Putting most of the old Pokemon in wild areas means everywhere else is more concentrated with new Pokemon.
-They finally put Pokemon on the overworld so you can avoid them in caves and grass and pick a fight only if it's the mon you want rather than rolling the dice with random encounters. Not only does it improve the gameplay, it also makes the world feel vastly more alive with creatures.
-Dynamaxing is dramatic and every Pokemon can do it (unlike mega evolution).
-Lots of ease-of-use improvements
-The writing doesn't feature any ridiculous garbage about truth vs ideals or garbage musings about beauty, like the villains from BW, XY, or other Pokemon games.
-The game looks good in handheld mode, it looks like it renders at full resolution there. Also the Pokemon and characters look great in HD.

Bad:
-Overall presentation hasn't been improved much compared to Sun and Moon. The biggest problem IMO and it manifests in moments of underwhelming animation, audio, environments, and more.
-It's missing Pokemon. This is sad but only because the series has done so well at keeping them all until now. On the plus side, it's easier to get the shiny charm now :P
-Everywhere you go Hop is there to round you to the next part of the story and it gets old fast
-Routes don't offer much in the way of exploration.
-Wild area is graphically ugly and performs badly when your wireless is on.
-While some environments are atmospheric, some are visually unpolished or lacking detail
-The story is nothing special, it's very cut-and-dry and you might find it annoyingly stale if you played past Pokemon games.
-Gigantamax forms are really cool, but the Pokemon you raise can't access them--only ones you get from raids.
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Ultimately, as Ive been playing it, it feels like the worst thing I can say is it couldve been more when it comes to the first full console gen

So I get why people who wanted a big leap forward (graphically, in content, or otherwise) are sitting it out. Dont blame em at all. But theyre very solid Pokmon experiences as weve always known them.
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TsunamiFox posted...

KainFourteh posted...

It's a game directed primarily for children, of course its handholdy.

Explain Breath of the Wild then.

Didn't hold your hand, but okay.

KainFourteh posted...

Didn't hold your hand, but okay.

Literally his point?

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Pokemon has always targeted a younger audience than Zelda. It literally has a children's cartoon show.
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I love how games in the 90's were targeted towards kids and yet they were hard as fuck, unforgiving as they could be and often set out to be as cryptic and confusing as they could possibly be.

And there was no internet to fall back on.

And now games have to be made for "children" in such a way they literally hold your hand through the entire adventure.

Meanwhile kids are modding minecraft on PC themselves and creating their own custom skins and shit.

Like this "It's a kids game" argument is such complete nonsense. Kids are a lot smarter than anyone gives them credit for and having a cartoonish exterior is not an excuse to make a game completely devoid of any semblance of challenge or depth.

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I think the issue these days is that kids have so much choice to choose from to spend their time. If they hit a block most will probably just go play another game. It's just different compared to when we were kids. There's no obstacle that blocks progress in games that are massively popular with kids like Minecraft, Fortnite and Roblox.

This isn't a defense for Pokemon specifically. Just why kids games are different as a whole these days. It's not like kids were rushing to play Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze.
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SwayM posted...

Kids are a lot smarter than anyone gives them credit for and having a cartoonish exterior is not an excuse to make a game completely devoid of any semblance of challenge or depth.

True, but... I also wonder how much of an advantage it is, bringing decades worth of Pokemon knowledge with me into sword / shield. Imagine trying to figure out all the systems starting from zero... I could see how it could be quite a huge puzzle to unravel, for an uninitiated kid. I don't remember Pokemon ever being a challenge but there's always been depth for those looking to uncover it.
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Blue_Inigo posted...

Internet nerds are a small, small but vocal voice

Same with conservative boomers on Facebook

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KainFourteh posted...

Didn't hold your hand, but okay.

SwayM posted...

Literally his point?

Darmik posted...

Pokemon has always targeted a younger audience than Zelda. It literally has a children's cartoon show.

Well EXCUSE ME PRINCESS!!! Did someone forget the Saturday morning adventures of Link and Zelda
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Zelda, like most Nintendo franchises, isn't aimed at a specific demographic.

Like anybody who still thinks "Nintendo = kiddy" is stuck in 1996
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AwesomeToTheMAX posted...

Zelda, like most Nintendo franchises, isn't aimed at a specific demographic.

Like anybody who still thinks "Nintendo = kiddy" is stuck in 1996

If you think pokemon isn't primarily directed towards kids then you really need to get your head examined.

I beat it last night, at least I became the champion, I haven't done any of the post-game there is yet though I hear there isn't much

It was fun. I'm seeing a lot of complaints over the level and dungeon design being so linear, and I get that but I think people are underestimating how much you need to change to adapt to having pokemon on the overworld. A lot of the challenge from previous pokemon games just came from repeated random encounters without east opportunities to heal. When you can dodge pokemon encounters entirely it kind of defeats the purpose of creating elaborate mazes. I still would have preferred more exploration but I understand it

I actually thought the addition of dynamaxing or w/e made it harder than the last pokemon games I played lol

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It's a fun game for sure. The people acting like this game is the end of the world for them are hilarious.

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Despite all the criticism, it's still a damn good game.

KainFourteh posted...

AwesomeToTheMAX posted...

Zelda, like most Nintendo franchises, isn't aimed at a specific demographic.

Like anybody who still thinks "Nintendo = kiddy" is stuck in 1996

If you think pokemon isn't primarily directed towards kids then you really need to get your head examined.

Maybe you should get your head examined. I clearly typed "Zelda" and for some reason you brought up Pokmon
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AwesomeToTheMAX posted...

KainFourteh posted...

AwesomeToTheMAX posted...

Zelda, like most Nintendo franchises, isn't aimed at a specific demographic.

Like anybody who still thinks "Nintendo = kiddy" is stuck in 1996

If you think pokemon isn't primarily directed towards kids then you really need to get your head examined.

Maybe you should get your head examined. I clearly typed "Zelda" and for some reason you brought up Pokmon

You need reading comprehension lessons. You used zelda as an example for your point and I countered it with pokemon.

Get dropped on your head one too many times did we?

Finally got my 3rd badge. Is there anything more fucking boring than going through the main story? Also every time Leon or Galarian Hau lookin ass interrupt me, I get so triggered. Please just let me through if you're not gonna say anything valuable you fucks

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