Current Events > Rand Paul introduces genius bill to solve student debt crisis: pay it w/ 401k!

(+) Yeah! (+)

Broseph_Stalin posted...

you've given absolutely zero data showing millionaires use less service workers than poorer people. that's such a dumb argument to make in the first place.

Goal post moving already. Why don't you tell me what evidence you want to see?

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I'm not, you just don't like what I'm saying.

Broseph_Stalin posted...

I'm not, you just don't like what I'm saying.

I have no personal feelings about what you're saying I'm just informing you that what you're saying (and reading) is wrong.

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Tyranthraxus posted...

Why don't you tell me what evidence you want to see?

Can you read?

Broseph_Stalin posted...

data showing millionaires use less service workers than poorer people

the idea that you or I hire more people than millionaires is fucking bizarre

No one is talking about college students hiring maids. People are talking about college students buying from local businesses.

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Tyranthraxus posted...

I have no personal feelings about what you're saying I'm just informing you that what you're saying (and reading) is wrong.

It's not which is why you can't refute any of it.

Tmaster148 posted...

No one is talking about college students hiring maids.

AlephZero posted...

Things I would do if student loans were forgiven and Medicare for All was adopted: Hire someone to clean my house.

oof

Unknown5uspect posted...

Go to college for your future!

Sacrifice your future to pay for the debt you incurred going to college for your future!

If someone takes out loans for degree that won't land them a job with a salary good enough to pay that back, then it's their own fault.

Going to college with a plan and actually taking the time to do middle school level math and research to determine whether or not you're making a financially sound decision is "Going to college for your future". Just going somewhere pricey for the hell of it, accepting whatever loans you're offered and not thinking of the consequences is not "Going to college for your future". It's irresponsibility and no one else should have to pay for it.


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Broseph_Stalin posted...

the idea that you or I hire more people than millionaires is fucking bizarre

Individually we do not. Millions of us put together do.

If you give a million dollars to one guy, he'll hire 1 landscaper. If you distribute 1 million dollars to 10,000 people, and only 10% of them hire a landscaper, that's still 1,000 landscapers hired.

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Tyranthraxus posted...

If you give a million dollars to one guy, he'll hire 1 landscaper. If you distribute 1 million dollars to 10,000 people, and only 10% of them hire a landscaper, that's still 1,000 landscapers hired.

one guy spending a million dollars and 10,000 people spending a million dollars... both spend a million dollars.

no one is making money in this scenario, you're just shifting money around. the government has to spend a massive amount of money in order to bail out college graduates. you are not the first person to think of "If I didn't spend on x, I could spend on y".

Broseph_Stalin posted...

one guy spending a million dollars and 10,000 people spending a million dollars... both spend a million dollars.

no one is making money in this scenario, you're just shifting money around. the government has to spend a massive amount of money in order to bail out college graduates. you are not the first person to think of "If I didn't spend on x, I could spend on y".

The one guy doesn't spend a million dollars. That's the point. He spends some. He spends more than I do on my landscaper, but not a million dollars.

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Tyranthraxus posted...

The one guy doesn't spend a million dollars.

You think if I got a million dollars I'd hire a landscaper and do nothing else with the money? Think for a second. A million dollars spent is a million dollars spent.

It's like you woke up one day and realized if you didn't have to spend money on something you could spend it on another thing, and absolutely no one involved with public policy has ever thought about this before.

DifferentialEquation posted...

If someone takes out loans for degree that won't land them a job with a salary good enough to pay that back, then it's their own fault.

Going to college with a plan and actually taking the time to do middle school level math and research to determine whether or not you're making a financially sound decision is "Going to college for your future". Just going somewhere pricey for the hell of it, accepting whatever loans you're offered and not thinking of the consequences is not "Going to college for your future". It's irresponsibility and no one else should have to pay for it.

If I didn't know you were a joke account, I'd almost take this seriously.

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DifferentialEquation posted...

If someone takes out loans for degree that won't land them a job with a salary good enough to pay that back, then it's their own fault.

Going to college with a plan and actually taking the time to do middle school level math and research to determine whether or not you're making a financially sound decision is "Going to college for your future". Just going somewhere pricey for the hell of it, accepting whatever loans you're offered and not thinking of the consequences is not "Going to college for your future". It's irresponsibility and no one else should have to pay for it.

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Crepes posted...

Just do it how they do it in the UK. You still have the loan but you pay it back automatically as an additional tax once you earn over a generous threshold.

The more you benefit from further education in terms of salary in the future the more you pay back up to the amount you borrowed. Interest is added as well at a fairly low rate. Loan gets written off after 20 years (might be longer) as well if you don't pay it all off sooner.

Not sure what the objections to this sort of scheme is. A more educated populace is beneficial to the nation as a whole.

As a bonus it gets young unemployment figures down if more young people stay in education plus you have all the additional services and jobs that a larger university population brings so it seems like a win win all round.

No one?

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I have 500k in student loan debt. It'll take me like 200 years to pay it back at a rate of 5k per year

DanHaren2019 posted...

I have 500k in student loan debt. It'll take me like 200 years to pay it back at a rate of 5k per year

so you're still pretending to be a doctor then?

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Crepes posted...

No one?

This is america, they don't like smart solutions or helping people who aren't super rich and privileged.

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LightningAce11 posted...

This is america, they don't like smart solutions or helping people who aren't super rich and privileged.

It's just frustrating when two users just keep going back and forwards and it seems like they get emotionally involved and care more about "winning" then actually having a discussion.

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Broseph_Stalin posted...

75% of college graduates come from upper or upper middle class households and their median wages are ~20k higher than high school grads (non-monetary compensation gap is even wider) so... yes, they are pretty well off. And you're justifying a handout to them because they'll then hire poorer people like maids.

Trickle down economics is cool when it benefits me :^)

Which income groups do you think are the greatest beneficiaries of tax-advantaged investment accounts? We'll ignore for now the idea that earning more than a high school grad makes you "pretty well off" when the median income for high school graduates is barely above the poverty line for a family of four, as well as the idea that the financial burden of higher-education might just have something to do with the fact that lower-income groups are underrepresented in attainment of college degrees

Crepes posted...

Not sure what the objections to this sort of scheme is. A more educated populace is beneficial to the nation as a whole.

wrong actually, a more educated populace is trickle down economics

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Broseph_Stalin posted...

You think if I got a million dollars I'd hire a landscaper and do nothing else with the money? Think for a second. A million dollars spent is a million dollars spent.

It's like you woke up one day and realized if you didn't have to spend money on something you could spend it on another thing, and absolutely no one involved with public policy has ever thought about this before.

This is why millionaires are millionaires and you are not.

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Frolex posted...

wrong actually, a more educated populace is trickle down economics

id say giving everyone the chance to get educated is the exact opposite.

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Squall28 posted...

Lol at people getting mad at the idea of having to payoff your own debt.

I dont think you get it...

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Lot of people in here who dont know whats actually going on.

1- many the students in debt came from schools who lied about accreditation during a time before the info was spread throughout the internet (pre-2010). The media never talks about these students, just the ones who dont want to pay debt.

2- Allowing the schools and government to continue running colleges like this will affect your future, and your kids. Guess what, your kids are going to go to fraud schools and not know it, because you allowed schools to get away with all kinds of lies and trickery. You wont even know it, just like the students who got lied to. It seemed completely legit back then, too.

3- you will pay for it in taxes. Guess what, nobody is spending as much as we need. Why? Black hole of student debt. So where will that money come from? Your taxes! Oh, except you also dont like the idea of paying taxes to help out student debt, even though you arent even rich enough to reach that threshold the more extreme politicians are suggesting.

4- Oh, but there are government programs to alleviate debt! Except those programs also got exposed as fraud. The Public Service forgiveness plan only forgave literally less than 99% of people who signed up for it. .

Oh, and Devos, head of Education department, gets sued At a hilariously rapid rate now, and LOSES those lawsuits, yet STILL runs the DoE.

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Broseph_Stalin posted...

handout to them

wait, why is student loan forgiveness a handout

https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/recurringdata/51310-2016-03-studentloan.pdf

CBO data says that the cost of administering the student loan program exceeds the income gained from payments made on it when assessed at fair-value

even when not, it's only making about 1.5b per year (this does not account for default risks or inflation reductions in the value of the repaid sums) as it originates ~100b/year of new loans. the student debt is basically a worthless asset even by the most forgiving measure.

dumping it isn't really very expensive at all. this does become a good argument for killing it as a program entirely, though, which would certainly save money.

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