Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 254: Pete's Whine Cave

(+) Yeah! (+)

LordoftheMorons posted...

Its been upheld as protected speech by the Supreme Court

I know it has. And, I believe it is an ruling which needs to be revisited and reversed.

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Jakyl25 posted...

Do you think it should be a crime to desecrate the graves of your family if you own the burial plot?

Yes.

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CNN says Sanders was the big loser of the debate.

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yeah Chris Cillizia is a huge dumbass

heres his early power rankings for the primary

https://twitter.com/robrousseau/status/1207893396582477824?s=21
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Corrik7 posted...

I know it has. And, I believe it is an ruling which needs to be revisited and reversed.

why does it need to be reversed? What threat is flag burning posing that warrants restricting our right to do it?
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not even close, though also not surprising they'd say that since it's what they want.
biggest loser was pete by a long shot. everyone beat the shit out of him all debate. after pete? probably warren actually, though indirectly. she's kind of just "there" right now and has been trying to hang onto her support as they get split between pete and bloomberg. with klobuchar's performance i expect her to take a chunk of voters from that same flexible base, so warren's screwed. i always forget steyer exists but he always shows up, the magic of $80 million spent.

sanders did have an awkward moment of turning racial stuff towards climate change that i'm sure will be played plenty but shouldn't affect his numbers much. biden did fine. yang had more speaking time and he naturally does great anytime he gets to talk. he gets the concept of connecting with people far better than anyone on that stage.

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MoogleKupo141 posted...

heres his early power rankings for the primary

the saddest power rankings i've seen since the cleveland browns being the favorites to win the afc north

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xp1337 posted...

the saddest power rankings i've seen since the cleveland browns being the favorites to win the afc north

Please, at least that one made sense on paper before the season started.

Reg posted...

Please, at least that one made sense on paper before the season started.

did it though? did it? because on paper they were still the cleveland browns.

Anyway, got around to watching the debate. I knew Warren was likely to come at Buttigieg but I was shocked everyone joined the dunk-a-thon (except Steyer), Klobuchar in particular chose to go way harder than I'd ever expect.

Warren had the most powerful moment IMO when she knocked it out of the park with her answer to the last question with the gimmick forgiveness/gift question (and also props for being the only one along with Yang to actually answer it as asked) Though outside that it didn't feel like one of her stronger debates.

I think Sanders and Biden did the best here. Klobuchar wasn't bad either. Neither was Warren but with the dynamics of the race as they are I'm afraid she needed more than that. Yang and Steyer just vanished in the second half. Steyer continues to be like the weirdest dude on the stage since when he does talk he's usually like "yeah warren and sanders are right but for some reason you should believe i'm better qualified than them to tackle these issues" but he's inoffensive and I'm always down for someone backing them up. Buttigieg had the worst performance IMO because at about the halfway mark everyone came at him and I don't think he handled it all that well. I also think any time Biden does well it almost by default is bad news for him because it weakens his "i'm young biden" appeal.

also calling sanders the loser is ridiculous, cnn showing mad disrespect for sanders's late break into standup. "He took my name in vain! He hurt my feelings!" lmfao.

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MoogleKupo141 posted...

why does it need to be reversed? What threat is flag burning posing that warrants restricting our right to do it?

Might hurt his snowflake feelings.

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xp1337 posted...

did it though? did it? because on paper they were still the cleveland browns.

Anyway, got around to watching the debate. I knew Warren was likely to come at Buttigieg but I was shocked everyone joined the dunk-a-thon (except Steyer), Klobuchar in particular chose to go way harder than I'd ever expect.

Warren had the most powerful moment IMO when she knocked it out of the park with her answer to the last question with the gimmick forgiveness/gift question (and also props for being the only one along with Yang to actually answer it as asked) Though outside that it didn't feel like one of her stronger debates.

I think Sanders and Biden did the best here. Klobuchar wasn't bad either. Neither was Warren but with the dynamics of the race as they are I'm afraid she needed more than that. Yang and Steyer just vanished in the second half. Steyer continues to be like the weirdest dude on the stage since when he does talk he's usually like "yeah warren and sanders are right but for some reason you should believe i'm better qualified than them to tackle these issues" but he's inoffensive and I'm always down for someone backing them up. Buttigieg had the worst performance IMO because at about the halfway mark everyone came at him and I don't think he handled it all that well. I also think any time Biden does well it almost by default is bad news for him because it weakens his "i'm young biden" appeal.

also calling sanders the loser is ridiculous, cnn showing mad disrespect for sanders's late break into standup. "He took my name in vain! He hurt my feelings!" lmfao.

I also laughed at the I WAS JUST WAVING TO YOU, JOE line. That Sanders charisma.

I think overall everyone did fine to pretty good honestly. Buttigieg took it on the chin all night which was great but he also probably defended himself better than any of the earlier targets (Tulsi dunking on Harris, Biden fumbling for words, Warren being unable to fully defend her healthcare plan) so I doubt his polling takes all that much of a hit (especially considering he isnt doing all that well nationally anyway). If I had to pick a loser it was sadly probably Warren. I dont think she did enough to stop the bleeding and if anything I expect it to get worst in the next polling cycle.

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I think at this point all Biden has to do to win is not fuck up royally. The nomination is his to lose. Mostly because we can't count on young people to actually get out and vote in primaries. So the older more conservative generation gets to pick. And of course they go with the old white guy who's 'middle of the road' and thinks he can actually work with a party that has one mission: Destroy Democrats.

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wow that flag debate was one of the worst yet

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Dancedreamer posted...

I think at this point all Biden has to do to win is not fuck up royally. The nomination is his to lose. Mostly because we can't count on young people to actually get out and vote in primaries. So the older more conservative generation gets to pick. And of course they go with the old white guy who's 'middle of the road' and thinks he can actually work with a party that has one mission: Destroy Democrats.

I refuse to concede this tbh. I mean yeah sure it is possible, but I also know that there is a lot more youth buzz around the country than before. Also Bernie tends to do very well up until the age of 40, it isn't as if it is all zoomers.

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Problem is I expect the vast majority of causus goers are over 50.

This based on the 3 IA primary/caucuses I've gone to. So I could be wrong but that is my experience.

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Caucuses are total bullshit tbh

Maniac64 posted...

Problem is I expect the vast majority of causus goers are over 50.

This based on the 3 IA primary/caucuses I've gone to. So I could be wrong but that is my experience.

I mean Bernie lost IA by what, .2% last time? Also his ground game is absurd <_<

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

I refuse to concede this tbh. I mean yeah sure it is possible, but I also know that there is a lot more youth buzz around the country than before. Also Bernie tends to do very well up until the age of 40, it isn't as if it is all zoomers.

Unless Bernie can get black voters on his side, he is getting destroyed in the primary. 50+ year old black women control the Democrat base in half the country, and they like Biden.

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The Democratic Party is finished. They have gotten so deep into identity politics that they cannot escape.

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red sox 777 posted...

The Democratic Party is finished. They have gotten so deep into identity politics that they cannot escape.

Only the GOP is allowed to base their entire platform and identity on identity politics.

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red sox 777 posted...

The Democratic Party is finished. They have gotten so deep into identity politics that they cannot escape.

You forgot the official Trumpian nomenclature. Its the Democrat Party
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Unless Bernie can get black voters on his side, he is getting destroyed in the primary. 50+ year old black women control the Democrat base in half the country, and they like Biden.

OK.

https://preview.redd.it/f6nnutao9n541.jpg?width=768&auto=webp&s=971ca8871a877a1cb11abf74ad1baec9b68e258c

Let's go =o

Also I didn't realize but one of the moderators last night is a completely biased anti-bernie person lmao.

https://fair.org/home/pbs-taps-journalist-with-anti-sanders-bias-to-help-moderate-debate/

This article skewers her.

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

I mean Bernie lost IA by what, .2% last time? Also his ground game is absurd <_<

I hope you are right.

My plan is to pick between Bernie and Warren at the Caucus based on how it looks for both. If I can help get one an extra delegate or the top spot I'll do so.

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Jakyl25 posted...

You forgot the official Trumpian nomenclature. Its the Democrat Party

Rush Limbaugh ca. 2004 nomenclature

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Maniac64 posted...

I hope you are right.

My plan is to pick between Bernie and Warren at the Caucus based on how it looks for both. If I can help get one an extra delegate or the top spot I'll do so.

My suggestion? Go harder for Bernie now. Text bank. Phone bank. Don't wait until you are there. Everything is trending Bernie's way right now, I like Warren but she isn't bold enough and the polls are showing that. Get 5, 10 more people to vote for Bernie. Contribute 18 dollars to Bernie. Hope alone will not change our system, but action will. Do not hope Maniac, be the hope.

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

OK.

https://preview.redd.it/f6nnutao9n541.jpg?width=768&auto=webp&s=971ca8871a877a1cb11abf74ad1baec9b68e258c

That is cherry picked and the proportions comically altered

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/13/poll-biden-continues-to-dominate-among-black-voters-084285

In the crowded Democratic field, Biden has 44 percent support 29 percentage points higher than Sen, Bernie Sanders, who comes in second among African American likely primary voters, according to the survey for the BlackPAC political action committee

You can pull a dozen or so polls that confirm this.

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in terms of overall numbers, Biden is #1 with voters and #2 with people sticking to him. Bernie's the opposite.
in terms of state specific numbers, both muddle around a lot but the voters that seem most up for grabs - the Klobuchar/Warren/Pete base - would be more Biden. the only person Bernie really has to pull votes from is Yang; Warren's base and his don't really overlap as much as one would've thought. in other words, for Bernie to win he needs to make sure that all of these names and others - Booker, Steyer - stay in the race to minimize Biden's actual majority and win via minor plurality in a few major states. as it stands, Klobuchar might've just given Biden Iowa which is the last thing anybody else in the race wants: he's already gonna dominate South Carolina, if he also wins the first one too then even if Bernie wins New Hampshire it's gonna move the needle on educated white middle/upper class vote, which is relevant for the eventual Biden/Bernie clash in California. if Biden wins that, it's over. if Bernie wins that, he's got a shot.

alternatively you're hoping the senate decides to really fuck with the race and zeros in on Biden, Hunter Biden, how corrupt the man is, and manage to make him look incompetent. that or old man health issues, which both are prone to so who knows how that goes. in those regards, it's anybody's race.

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Chris what are you going to do when Bernie loses the primary again? Serious question--what is your plan?

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

My suggestion? Go harder for Bernie now. Text bank. Phone bank. Don't wait until you are there. Everything is trending Bernie's way right now, I like Warren but she isn't bold enough and the polls are showing that. Get 5, 10 more people to vote for Bernie. Contribute 18 dollars to Bernie. Hope alone will not change our system, but action will. Do not hope Maniac, be the hope.

I'm not currently in Iowa, I'll be moving back before the caucus though.

Also whichever I choose at the event I'll get multiple people to switch with me I have no doubt.

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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Chris what are you going to do when Bernie loses the primary again? Serious question--what is your plan?

Though Biden is one of the most moderate candidates in the Democratic primary, BlackPACs poll indicates the African American electorate favors progressive policies such as free tuition at public colleges (76 percent), slapping a new tax on the extremely wealthy (73 percent), reparations for descendants of slaves (71 percent), Medicare for All (65 percent), and the Green New Deal (57 percent).
The poll also shows black voters think Biden would do the best job on nearly every issue important to them, from gun control to health care to housing. The only issue hes not the most trusted to handle best: abortion rights.

Black people like Bernie best on policy apparently they may not realize it!

If Bernie loses the primary I will do what I am doing now. Speaking out for progressive candidates and for getting the money out of politics of this country. Bernie is correct when he says this is not solely about him. It is a fight for justice for many people in this country who suffer. Ideally Bernie would be a 45 year old man who has 40 years of fight left in him, but on many issues he was too ahead of his time. I know that regardless of the outcome he will inspire a generation of people. His movement, his success at raising money, is altering the rules of the game that is often played.


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Maniac64 posted...

My plan is to pick between Bernie and Warren at the Caucus based on how it looks for both. If I can help get one an extra delegate or the top spot I'll do so.

Bernie.
frankly if you're a Bernie/Warren voter who hasn't left her then i'm not sure what you're doing. her loss in polls has been largely to Pete's benefit first, Bloomberg's second. that's the majority of her base and they ain't coming back.

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I respect your principles!

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Maniac64 posted...

I'm not currently in Iowa, I'll be moving back before the caucus though.

Also whichever I choose at the event I'll get multiple people to switch with me I have no doubt.

Doesn't change anything I said. You can text and phone bank to Iowa out of state, some of the time at least.

Let's do this!

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Nelson_Mandela posted...

I respect your principles!

I can say from the bottom of my heart that Bernie Sanders has inspired me as a person.

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

I can say from the bottom of my heart that Bernie Sanders has inspired me as a person.

That's good! I'll be genuinely interested to see if having a family and/or a higher salary affects that ideology for you.

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I only get more progressive as I get older and more secure
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I have a family, although a young one. I am engaged to be married next year and after she left a POS that didn't love her or their son it has given me an even greater appreciation for Bernie. I actually run my own small business now, along with political.marketing consulting work I do on the side, and as I gain more things I realize how many people have had them taken from them. Medical debt is such a truly horrific and unneeded thing in this world. People shouldn't be afraid to go to do the doctor for monetary reasons, people have a basic right to live. That's primarily what led to my mom's diabetes getting worse and her passing: stalling on health care because she had to raise a son as a single parent and she made the choice that my safety and well being was more important than her doctor appointments. It took me many years to realize how much she sacrificed so that I could be happy and feel loved. Now every night when I put my son to bed and I see his face I think of conversations with my fiance, a CPA with a Masters degree and no student debt at 24, still cringes at going to the doctor because of how absurd it is because her job's insurance isn't fantastic. I think about my mom during those discussion, and I want my son to grow up in a world where his mom isn't forced to make the same decisions as my mom did.

I will fight for that. My fiance points out to me often I tend to win most fights I am in, but this one may take a bit.

Also she voted Trump in 2016 because her ex did, but we've got one more Bernie supporter this time.

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Free tuition at public colleges - For me this depends heavily on how exactly this is done. If it involves simply giving taxpayer money to the colleges at whatever rate they want to charge, then I would vote no on this. All that would achieve is to get the colleges to raise their tuition ever higher and bankrupt the country. It's welfare for the rich in the worst sense.

New tax on extremely wealthy - Oppose on the grounds that this reeks of a majority oppressing a minority simply because they have more votes. Would support higher taxes on the upper middle class for purposes of punishment.

Reparations - Support, although this would be mostly symbolic as there is no way to make people whole for centuries of slavery.

Medicare for All - Support. Would also support a straight repeal of Obamacare. Will support virtually any healthcare policy as long as it repeals Obamacare.

Green New Deal - Support as a concept but have not yet seen any workable details. Will consider when there are enough specifics to actually be able to evaluate them.


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https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1208029119776247808?s=21

How much of this is accurate
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Uh...

At least somewhat.

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Wanglicious posted...

frankly if you're a Bernie/Warren voter who hasn't left her then i'm not sure what you're doing. her loss in polls has been largely to Pete's benefit first, Bloomberg's second. that's the majority of her base and they ain't coming back.

I want to see a female President before I'm 40. So of course i'm supporting her. I supported Bernie in 2016 because we didn't have a progressive woman running. But for once, we do. I'm also a little uncomfortable with how Bernie's campaign was run in 2016. They paid women less then men (at lower positions!) and there were problems with sexual harassment. I don't think Bernie is the problem, except in that he often surrounds himself with the wrong people. I mean I have four daughters. So that's a pretty big deal for me.

Don't get me wrong. If Warren is essentially out by the time the primary comes here I'll jump on the Bernie Bandwagon. (Barring a constitutional amendment to lower the age requirement for president, and AOC jumps in the race. In which case she has my vote, my time, my money, and whatever she needs) But until we see some primary results and she stands no realistic shot, she has my support.

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Ashethan posted...

I want to see a female President before I'm 40. So of course i'm supporting her. I supported Bernie in 2016 because we didn't have a progressive woman running. But for once, we do. I'm also a little uncomfortable with how Bernie's campaign was run in 2016. They paid women less then men (at lower positions!) and there were problems with sexual harassment. I don't think Bernie is the problem, except in that he often surrounds himself with the wrong people.

Don't get me wrong. If Warren is essentially out by the time the primary comes here I'll jump on the Bernie Bandwagon. (Barring a constitutional amendment to lower the age requirement for president, and AOC jumps in the race. In which case she has my vote, my time, my money, and whatever she needs) But until we see some primary results and she stands no realistic shot, she has my support.

You realize AOC has already jumped into the race... on Bernie's behalf.

So how about you give everything you have to the person who inspired her to get into politics and continues to inspire her?

Like, if AOC was talking to you right now she'd ask you to support Bernie lol.

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all of it's pretty accurate.
yes, the dems impeached him and the very next day gave him almost $800 billion for a defense bill.
and passed a trillion dollar trade deal.
and renewed the patriot act along the way.

the whole process has continued to be in his favor and given him a ton of talking points that he'll use in re-election.

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I get texts from the Bernie campaign.

They ask me who Im supporting, I say either Warren or Bernie, and ask them to sell me on Bernie

They then asked me who I supported in the 2016 Primary and I said Bernie

Then they said Great! So can we count on you to volunteer?
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Ashethan posted...

I want to see a female President before I'm 40. So of course i'm supporting her. I supported Bernie in 2016 because we didn't have a progressive woman running. But for once, we do. I'm also a little uncomfortable with how Bernie's campaign was run in 2016. They paid women less then men (at lower positions!) and there were problems with sexual harassment. I don't think Bernie is the problem, except in that he often surrounds himself with the wrong people. I mean I have four daughters. So that's a pretty big deal for me.

Don't get me wrong. If Warren is essentially out by the time the primary comes here I'll jump on the Bernie Bandwagon. (Barring a constitutional amendment to lower the age requirement for president, and AOC jumps in the race. In which case she has my vote, my time, my money, and whatever she needs) But until we see some primary results and she stands no realistic shot, she has my support.

Are those allegations about the Bernie campaign true? They sound like smears to me.

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Wanglicious posted...

all of it's pretty accurate.
yes, the dems impeached him and the very next day gave him almost $800 billion for a defense bill.
and passed a trillion dollar trade deal.
and renewed the patriot act along the way.

the whole process has continued to be in his favor and given him a ton of talking points that he'll use in re-election.

What is the thing about cigarette age?
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Jakyl25 posted...

I get texts from the Bernie campaign.

They ask me who Im supporting, I say either Warren or Bernie, and ask them to sell me on Bernie

They then asked me who I supported in the 2016 Primary and I said Bernie

Then they said Great! So can we count on you to volunteer?

Unsolicited, or did you give them your number?

DoomTheGyarados posted...

You realize AOC has already jumped into the race... on Bernie's behalf.

So how about you give everything you have to the person who inspired her to get into politics and continues to inspire her?

Like, if AOC was talking to you right now she'd ask you to support Bernie lol.

She's thrown her support, but she's not running. She can't. (And I think she probably shouldn't, even if she were allowed. Maybe if she had more experience under her belt first. Though I think she'd make a great President)

I think it's important that we have a female President. At least important enough to give Warren the edge for me. I've got four daughters. I don't want them looking up Presidents and seeing that not ONE of them in over 200 years matches their gender.

It's not the only issue, or even the most important one. If the choices were Kloubacher vs Biden vs Sanders or Biden vs Harris vs Sanders, Bernie would get my support every time. But it matters for me at least a little.

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Unsolicited.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Unsolicited.

Yikes. Like, what the fuck?

I ignore all unsolicited calls/texts for a reason. Though I did have a good conversation with a Beto campaign volunteer who was knocking on doors shortly before the 2018 midterms.