Current Events > Why was Last Jedi rated so highly by critics but they hate RoS?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I enjoyed RoS more then TLJ, but that doesnt mean they were good. Is it cuz Rian Johnson has a high score to keep while JJ is just whatever about it?

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Because tlj was a good movie the made unsufferables go reeeee they didn't do my fan theory! And rise of Skywalker is bad dog doodoo that did what the unsufferables wanted and a lesson for why you should never listen to fans.

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I Like Toast posted...

Because tlj was a good movie the made unsufferables go reeeee they didn't do my fan theory! And rise of Skywalker is bad dog doodoo that did what the unsufferables wanted and a lesson for why you should never listen to fans.

This tbh

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I Like Toast posted...

Because tlj was a good movie the made unsufferables go reeeee they didn't do my fan theory! And rise of Skywalker is bad dog doodoo that did what the unsufferables wanted and a lesson for why you should never listen to fans.

This

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it dunked on the "you hate it because your fan theory was wrong" crowd by making TLJ and their orphan jedi kid theories irrelevant

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never seen so many people agree that TLJ was a good movie. But I wont lie I enjoyed that one too, however the insufferables did bring up some good points about how Finn's plot is largely useless, Luke is a loser drinking alien milk all day, and the holdo maneuver ruins all space battles.

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kkTheKiller42 posted...

however the insufferables did bring up some good points about how Finn's plot is largely useless,

And? Why do the heroes have to always be right? No one talks about how going to cloud city was pointless and just fucked up the rebels plans.

And Luke has always struggled with being pulled to the dark side, it's like the entire plot of the ot. After getting pulled again he choose to shut himself off. Had we had movies covering the last 30 years, sure, Luke wouldn't still be shut off, but those stories didn't get told and jjs the one who made him a recluse from kylo in the first place.
kkTheKiller42 posted...

the holdo maneuver ruins all space battles.

Only if you're an unsufferable. If you have an ounce of self thought you'll go that was awesome scene and shot beautifully. And if you're a cringey sad boy you can go oh, she had to pilot it so that's why hyperspace torpedoes won't work, not to mention even as a giant capital ship it still gave the heros and plot relevant first order time to escape.

And the entire first 2/3 of skywalker is as pointless as canto. the search for the sith mcguffin doesn't matter. Chewies memory loss doesn't matter even when they specifically say r2 units have unreliable backups. The stupid fucking dagger being designed to point a spot of the crashed deathstar if you're looking at the exact right spot. And palps entire plan is to hide...but he needs to be found so he can be force fucked by his granddaughter. Which who the fuck was fucking palps during the clone wars so he could have a grand daughter? And lando break hyperspace rules even more than holdo because he covers the entire galaxy in like 10 minutes and everyone shows up at the exact same time.

But the people who nitpick tlj ignore all of that in Skywalker, while people who liked tlj know that even all of that still doesn't cover why skywalker was a bad movie. Because that doesn't address the pacing of the movies which is Skywalker's biggest problem since disney didn't plan out their trilogy and contracts likely prevented them from splitting ep9 into a part one and two to tell the 2 movies jj tried to cramp in 1.


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i don't think TLJ was good at all but it was way more memorable and interesting thematically than RoS

RoS was the worst Star Wars movie I think. It was completely reactionary as a piece of fiction. It was meddled with, tried to nostalgia bait in ways that didn't make sense, made no sense in general, had few to no core themes, was even more contrived than TLJ, goes against the messaging/thesis of the entire OT trilogy where TLJ at least respected it thematically, etc

just awful, i'd take the shitty PT direction/dialogue with its great ideas and handful of genuinely great moments in an instant

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Because critics are dumb.

They both should have rotten scores.

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Because then they could pretend this shit show could still amount to something. RoS was the end of the line and the settling of accounts.

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Thematically, TLJ isnt amazing, but its sound and tries some new stuff in a franchise known for playing it safe. Let the past die was a bold new direction for Star Wars

TROS on the other hand is just a movie that flies at like a million miles an hour and seems to have no real thematic purpose. I walked out thinking the film didnt really have anything to say if that makes sense?

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I mean the real difference to me between cloud city and whatever city was in TLJ was it didnt ruin a villain that was hyped up. Its not like Han dumped on Vader like Finn did to phasma.

But I will agree that the shot of holdo ramming everything was a great scene visually.
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kkTheKiller42 posted...

never seen so many people agree that TLJ was a good movie.

They don't. They just say it to get reactions.

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I Like Toast posted...

Because tlj was a good movie the made unsufferables go reeeee they didn't do my fan theory! And rise of Skywalker is bad dog doodoo that did what the unsufferables wanted and a lesson for why you should never listen to fans.

Gonna go with this.

because TLJ is at least somewhat creatively ambitious and critics generally favor that more

RoS meanwhile feels like a movie that was churned out of a lab with intent to appease rather than do anything interesting

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Can I say how happy I am that so many people enjoyed

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the last jedi was original it did new things

rise of the skywalker was just a safe rehash of past star wars ideas which is sadly what fans want

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No idea. TLJ was an awful movie in so many ways. RoS was just mediocre.

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They were both terrible in different ways but TLJ was terrible in a way that film critics are sympathetic to, and weren't expecting from a Star Wars movie.

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I Like Toast posted...

Because tlj was a good movie the made unsufferables go reeeee they didn't do my fan theory! And rise of Skywalker is bad dog doodoo that did what the unsufferables wanted and a lesson for why you should never listen to fans.

Accurate

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but what about avg audience scores for both movies? wasn't the new one ranked higher? i know i liked it better, but that ain't saying much tlj was awful

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I Like Toast posted...

And rise of Skywalker is bad dog doodoo that did what the unsufferables wanted and a lesson for why you should never listen to fans.

Outside of giving Reylos their kiss, and then pissing them off by killing half of the equation, I don't see all of what that movie did to give "unsufferables" what they wanted or how it listened to fans at all. The shit broke the fucking canon and got real sloppy with characters; fans didn't ask for that.

But hey, I understand you have to blame anyone else but the folks who made it.

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BruceWayneJr posted...

Outside of giving Reylos their kiss, and then pissing them off by killing half of the equation, I don't see all of what that movie did to give "unsufferables" what they wanted or how it listened to fans at all. The shit broke the fucking canon and got real sloppy with characters; fans didn't ask for that.

But hey, I understand you have to blame anyone else but the folks who made it.

Pro-TLJ people think anti-TLJ people wanted Rose sidelined, Rey to be related to Palps, etc.

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It's absolutely hilarious watching the internet do a 180 on TLJ just because it's not the most recent thing to hate anymore
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I Like Toast posted...

But the people who nitpick tlj ignore all of that in Skywalker,

You'd probably accuse me of nitpicking TLJ but I hated it so much I haven't even seen Skywalker.

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TLJ was thematically and dramatically competent. What people dislike about it usually amounts to "it didn't leave us with a cool, threatening villain" or complaints about how Luke not getting a fairy tale ending somehow ruined his character. Critics don't really care about the implications of the Star Wars lore, they saw a movie with clear themes and a solid drama. It's completely different metrics by which critics and a general audience rate movies.

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kkTheKiller42 posted...

was it didnt ruin a villain that was hyped up

Literally boba fett dies because of it. And phasma was already "ruined" from ep7. And once again the people that complain about tlj prove the only reason they don't like the movie is because they were told to not like it. Because dear god they have their own opinion without some youtuber or Twitter nobody telling them it first.

marthsheretoo posted...

anti-TLJ people wanted Rose sidelined, Rey to be related to Palps, etc.

You literally spent 2 years crying about rose, wanting rey to have parents that were related to the one of 3 possible families it could be, wanted luke to act like he did in Skywalker, wanted to ignore the force actually awakening like with broom kid, didn't want kylo to become the main antagonist because snoke was soooooooo cool and mysterious, and loved every time jj went and here's the ot so you could go oh, I as a real fan got that! For christ sake you loved chewie getting a random medal because the memes. Skywalker is a steaming pile of shit because jj and disney had no balls and listened to the unsufferables.

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The problem with the sequel trilogy is the lack of planning. Like Abrams made The Force Awakens and then just left it for someone else to write the middle part? And then he comes back for the final part and has to try and connect the hooks he set up in TFA that haven't been severed in TLJ.

If it was all planned out, the trilogy would be ten times better. By the time you get to Rise of Skywalker it's so clear that they're making it up as they go along with things such as Palpatine returning. Abrams should have written/directed all of the trilogy. Or at least co-wrote TLJ with Rian Johnson.

I feel like saying TLJ is a good movie is just one of those weird Internet things where you pretend something is good just because you don't like a certain crowd (in this case, the Star Wars nerds). Movie was the drizzling shits, although I still like it more than prequel movies. And no, I didn't have any fan theories I wanted it to conform to or whatever stupid excuse people use, it was just a bad movie (Knives Out, by the same director, was great).

TLJ was competently written, directed well, the cinematography was lovely, it took an established franchise and tried new things. It's understanding why critics would appreciate that

TRoS was pretty clumsily written at points, the direction was uneven and the pacing was fucking wacky. That's coming from me, a guy who actually liked the movie.

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scar the 1 posted...

TLJ was thematically and dramatically competent. What people dislike about it usually amounts to "it didn't leave us with a cool, threatening villain" or complaints about how Luke not getting a fairy tale ending somehow ruined his character. Critics don't really care about the implications of the Star Wars lore, they saw a movie with clear themes and a solid drama. It's completely different metrics by which critics and a general audience rate movies.

Amazing. Every word of what you just said.. was wrong.


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Hairistotle posted...

I dont understand how people itt are still writing off TLJ derision by saying "dur it conflicted with their fan theories"

What disingenuous horse shit and I hate to see good, normal, nonradical posters like scar or ninja subscribe to that notion. What shit.

Why not though. It's impossible to have a rational discussion with you guys about TLJ like any other movie, so messing with yall is about all that's left

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It's impossible to have a rational discussion about it if the point you're starting from is "I can't understand why people could possibly like this movie and I feel like people who say they do are being dishonest"

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Hairistotle posted...

I dont understand how people itt are still writing off TLJ derision by saying "dur it conflicted with their fan theories"

What disingenuous horse shit and I hate to see good, normal, nonradical posters like scar or ninja subscribe to that notion. What shit.

Well if that's what you took from my post maybe I was a bit too facetious. What I mean to say is that critics value things differently than the audience. For example, what critics usually praise is what I mentioned - clear themes, good drama. And I rarely see any serious criticism about that.

What I do see criticism about is things like "RJ destroyed Luke", "RJ left us with nothing (no strong villains) for ep IX", "Canto Bight was pointless", "suspension of disbelief".

It's definitely my interpretation that a lot of fans were disappointed in Luke and are trying to externally justify that disappointment by saying what he did was "out of character", but my point was that critics don't really care much about the lore. They care of the film they watched was a well put together drama according to completely different metrics.

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It seems that people who liked TLJ dislike RoS, and vice-verse.

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Sorry, I meant to say "subverted expectations", not "suspension of disbelief". That complaint really took off after GoT ended

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EbonTitanium posted...

It seems that people who liked TLJ dislike RoS, and vice-verse.

I disliked both of them for different reasons.

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Hairistotle posted...

Im not looking for a rational discussion with people whom I believe are lying out of spite

To be clear, I'm not. Nor am I looking to fight. But if you want to have a conversation my DMs are open. Not really into making this into a 300 post TLJ fight topic.

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TLJ is a pretty good movie on its own, but fits very poorly in the context of the greater Star Wars story.

RoS is pretty bad on its own and it fits very poorly into the greater story.

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Doom_Art posted...

TLJ was competently written, directed well, the cinematography was lovely

How so? It was a shallow movie devoid of any purpose.

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"Why did critics like a better movie more than a worse movie?"

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Because critics aren't actually fans of what they rate and these days things are rated based on SJW views and will be marked down because they lack "diversity." There have actually been "professional" reviews that have marked the score for a video game down because it starred a white man instead of a black man or a women.

I mean it seems obvious this is the trend when for the past how many years now when critics think a movie sucks and just so happens to be loved by the audience and then when they can't sing it's praises enough the audience hates the movie. This never used to be the case, usually the scores were similar. Now it's like people are seeing two completely different movies.

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scar the 1 posted...

Well if that's what you took from my post maybe I was a bit too facetious. What I mean to say is that critics value things differently than the audience. For example, what critics usually praise is what I mentioned - clear themes, good drama. And I rarely see any serious criticism about that.

What I do see criticism about is things like "RJ destroyed Luke", "RJ left us with nothing (no strong villains) for ep IX", "Canto Bight was pointless", "suspension of disbelief".

It's definitely my interpretation that a lot of fans were disappointed in Luke and are trying to externally justify that disappointment by saying what he did was "out of character", but my point was that critics don't really care much about the lore. They care of the film they watched was a well put together drama according to completely different metrics.

It did not have good themes.

For example Rose line about saving what you loved.
Finn was doing that very thing at the start of the movie. And Rose stopped him.

Holdo and Poe.
The take away here is blind loyalty even when it seems like the leaders are wrong. IF this is the take away. Then Finn should have not questioned Phasma.

People keep saying it is also about failure.
People have failed in Star Wars all the time, but when that happened it was logically and understandable. Finn and Rose failed because they illegally parked and then trusted someone that met in jail.

AS far as Luke.
HE didn't have to be a superhero or anything like that. But he was the most hopeful person in the galaxy tried to save his genocidal father. But know as he is older and wiser he almost kills a kid he was in charge of while he was sleeping.

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Bribes. Disney knew SW was fucked after TLJ so they didnt bribe for RoS

scar the 1 posted...

TLJ was thematically and dramatically competent. What people dislike about it usually amounts to "it didn't leave us with a cool, threatening villain" or complaints about how Luke not getting a fairy tale ending somehow ruined his character. Critics don't really care about the implications of the Star Wars lore, they saw a movie with clear themes and a solid drama. It's completely different metrics by which critics and a general audience rate movies.

This, plus deliberately misunderstanding the movie, and as Gamerguymass exhibits, their political agenda.

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IShall_Run_Amok posted...

deliberately misunderstanding the movie

This so much

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