Current Events > Why isn't toxic femininity a thing

(+) Yeah! (+)

jborgan posted...

Why does one have to mean the other? Showing your emotions doesn't mean "breaking down and cowering in fear." That's exactly what toxic masculinity is.

This guy gets it.

BlueMage279 posted...

Great then we must be in agreement on this topic.

If we both think that toxic masculinity as a term is fine as-is and doesn't need to be changed, then we are.

jborgan posted...

Why does one have to mean the other? Showing your emotions doesn't mean "breaking down and cowering in fear." That's exactly what toxic masculinity is.

If the base usage is characterizing men as being groomed into becoming emotionless terminators, why not the polar opposite extreme?

What does showing one's emotions mean anyway? I hear this all the time, but nobody really describes what that is and why generally men aren't doing it.

Phewfus posted...

If the base usage is characterizing men as being groomed into becoming emotionless terminators, why not the polar opposite extreme?

This doesn't make sense because emotions aren't a binary issue. There's a vast range between "stoic" and "cowardly", and no one's arguing that you must be cowardly if you're not stoic.

What does showing one's emotions mean anyway? I hear this all the time, but nobody really describes what that is and why generally men aren't doing it.

Just admitting that you feel depressed about something, or that you feel like you could use some help, or might have suicidal thoughts, real trauma, whatever. Lots of guys just think "nah that's weak gotta keep a stiff upper lip always", and then oops, men have a ridiculous suicide and homicide rate.

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Evening_Dragon posted...

This doesn't make sense because emotions aren't a binary issue. There's a vast range between "stoic" and "cowardly", and no one's arguing that you must be cowardly if you're not stoic.

I agree.
Evening_Dragon posted...

Just admitting that you feel depressed about something, or that you feel like you could use some help, or might have suicidal thoughts, real trauma, whatever. Lots of guys just think "nah that's weak gotta keep a stiff upper lip always", and then oops, men have a ridiculous suicide and homicide rate.

I feel like that's giving a simplistic answer to a complex set of issues dealing with mental health, where someone may not be thinking clearly enough to get help to begin with or even think they need help. Society certainly doesn't promote someone clamming up for having suicidal thoughts and feelings or your're not a man.

BlueMage279 posted...

I'd say you tried but we both know you didn't

After this display, it's amazing that you were the person trying to accuse me of not reading the topic properly.

No need to get snippy just because you failed to understand my point.

Terfs
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We don't talk about toxic feminity because it's not profitable to market something that makes women look bad in the current state of society.

Much better to just give men one more thing to feel like shit about, and not get help for, creating an even bigger problem.

In all honesty out should just be called toxic humanity, because toxic people regardless of gender or sex exist usually with their own preconceived toxic notions.

Phewfus posted...

I agree.

I feel like that's giving a simplistic answer to a complex set of issues dealing with mental health, where someone may not be thinking clearly enough to get help to begin with or even think they need help. Society certainly doesn't promote someone clamming up for having suicidal thoughts and feelings or your're not a man.

That's fair. I gave a simple answer, cause the complex version would take up a several posts, and is beyond my pay grade.

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Again, even if we didn't come up with this term at the time, toxic femininity is a thing and has been a thing for a while. For example, the past few decades are full of sitcoms and similar TV shows that regularly brought up not following negative standards of female behavior. The whole girl power thing in general exists specifically to oppose what we today might call toxic femininity.

bump..

Damn_Underscore posted...

Then why not say "overly conforming to traditional gender roles" or "toxic levels of traditional gender roles" or something like that?

If you see that people are going to feel victimized even if that isn't the intention of the term, the solution isn't to cover your eyes and ears and call everyone else wrong. I think most people could get on board with the idea that overly conforming to traditional gender roles is not good for society, but there is a reason why every debate about "toxic masculinity" derails into a debate about semantics.

Yes. Thickos is the reason.

People don't take issue with the term because there's a problem with it, they do it because there's a problem with them.

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The Trent posted...

because women are the ones who make up all these terms anyway

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https://imgur.com/fBskbMZ

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Equality isnt about being 50:50 from a female perspective.

Its about men having had a 70:30 advantage over women for so long, its time for women to have a 70:30 advantage over men.

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Stinks of broscience here.

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It is funny, toxic masculinity is nothing more then just complaining about stereotypical bad male stereotype. If you do that for woman you are yelled at.

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so do we blame society for pushing conventional thinking on us?

or do we blame ourselves for not thinking for ourselves and choosing who to be

Bass_X0 posted...

Equality isnt about being 50:50 from a female perspective.

Its about men having had a 70:30 advantage over women for so long, its time for women to have a 70:30 advantage over men.

This is not what feminists claim, though. Female feminists are saying that the movement helps modern men just like it helps women, so its wrong to be against it and everyone should support and promote it.


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Lorenzo_2003 posted...

This is not what feminists claim, though. Female feminists are saying that the movement helps modern men just like it helps women, so its wrong to be against it and everyone should support and promote it.

All genders are equal, but some genders are more equal than others.

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Another reason toxic masculinity caught on where toxic femininity didn't was social media. Negative female behavioral norms were challenged by feminism a while ago, but it took longer for that to happen to male behavioral norms on the same level. It took until after the spread of social media for the idea to pick up a lot of steam. And it was after social media's spread (especially twitter and other platforms that encourage you to say as much in aa few words as possible) that we also saw a rapid increase in lexicalization.

Lorenzo_2003 posted...

This is not what feminists claim, though. Female feminists are saying that the movement helps modern men just like it helps women, so its wrong to be against it and everyone should support and promote it.

which is objectively true and what 99% of feminists believe

idk why neckbeards get so upset over this shit

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metralo posted...

which is objectively true and what 99% of feminists believe

idk why neckbeards get so upset over this shit

That contradicts what Bass_X0 was saying, which is what I replied to. They posted that the majority of women are not interested in equality; they want to reverse the (male) advantage they perceive from 30:70 to 70:30.

If that intention is true, which I suspect it is, then feminists claiming they support equality are lying. They would also be lying about this movement being in the best interests of men, just as much as it is for men. Clearly, it is not.

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