Board 8 > Breath of the Wild is redefining open world games for me.

(+) Yeah! (+)

swordz9 posted...

Ya 900 of one thing and then NPCs will ask you to go collect 100 frogs, 100 lizards or other such stuff. Theres also like a picture catalogue for taking a picture of every weapon, shield and other such stuff too if you want even more mundane stuff to do!

Or you can be like me and barely do any of that!

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That is what I did! I mean theres a reason I only got the 50 something shrines and Koroks. Too boring to go do the hundreds more. Also didnt bother collecting any of the 100 critters stuff because that also sounded super boring and I had like 5 of them

Jakyl25 posted...

Ive seen it described as Ubisoft tower system that reveals topography and location names, but instead of telling you where everything is, it makes YOU fill in the map

Honestly maybe I'd appreciate BotW more if I hadn't already played 4.5 Assassin's Creed games, the inFamous series, and the Arkham and Spider-Man games, which all use this formula in denser worlds. BotW has great landscape design but I just need more direction.

The Arkham and Spider-Man games are even more fun to move around in!

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I guess Im in the middle on Koroks

Loved finding enough to max out inventory slots

Not that interested after that
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Hmmm. I guess the big difference is when I'm thinking of open world game I'm thinking of more RPG type stuff like Skyrim and Morrowind, or even Terraria (and I mean, I have over 200 hours logged on Skyrim and haven't beaten the main story yet, to illustrate good it as at making me feel like I have ADHD) rather than Arkham City and Spiderman.

I'd imagine fans of BotW would probably like those based on the commentary in here.

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The over-abundance of Koroks serves the purpose of being able to find them everywhere and reward random detours, much like the abundance of stars in Super Mario Odyssey but more extreme

As the reward goes out to admit, the purpose isn't to find all the Koroks unless you're a madman.

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I do love Spider-Man! Never played any of the Arkham games.

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Finding Moons is way more fun than Koroks imo. Hell I just started Odyssey a few days ago and its absolutely amazing

of course, Moons are the main focus of Odyssey while Koroks are tertiary

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Yeah, Im also just finding Odysseys worlds to be significantly more fun too. BotW might have it beaten in big pretty world freedom factor, but Odyssey is just way more fulfilling to explore

Huh. What are you basing it on then? Like Assassin's Creed? I'm not even sure I consider those open world games even though they kinda are. I don't ever feel any real need or value to exploring in those other than arbitrary collectibles (which I obviously have no interest in given my thoughts on special hells).

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Lopen posted...

Hmmm. I guess the big difference is when I'm thinking of open world game I'm thinking of more RPG type stuff like Skyrim and Morrowind, or even Terraria (and I mean, I have over 200 hours logged on Skyrim and haven't beaten the main story yet, to illustrate good it as at making me feel like I have ADHD) rather than Arkham City and Spiderman.

I'd imagine fans of BotW would probably like those based on the commentary in here.

I will say I like BotW more than stuff like Skyrim or Fallout. Terraria has a very satisfying mix of exploration, progression, and combat that I love and I wouldn't put it in the same category. That game is basically perfect.

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Grimlyn posted...

The over-abundance of Koroks serves the purpose of being able to find them everywhere and reward random detours, much like the abundance of stars in Super Mario Odyssey but more extreme

As the reward goes out to admit, the purpose isn't to find all the Koroks unless you're a madman.

Hey, 100% speedruns are below 24 hours now. It doesnt take TOO long <_<;

(BTW the speedrun tech for BotW is hilarious)
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I went to sleep immediately after posting so sorry I couldn't directly respond to you, @Paratroopa1 , though it looks like other people largely covered my point for me, lol.

Almost everything in the world is either a shrine or a seed, legitimately interesting content like hidden shrine quests or dragons are extremely far and few between. Shrines are instanced and seeds have a deceptively limited number of "types" of puzzles, so your mileage with the world itself will be measured by how much you can enjoy repetitive rewards for - sometimes quite literally - turning over stones.

I totally get that tons of people love the feeling of just being in a world and exploring, but I've played way too many empty open world games for that to appeal to me. As I said before though, all of the games mechanics are RIDICULOUSLY freeing and fun to mess around with, but I'd much prefer purposeful design and more in my sandbox than just sand. Mario Odyssey is a great example of a game that does just that. New Vegas is another if you want a direct open world comparison.

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Jakyl25 posted...

(BTW the speedrun tech for BotW is hilarious)

Have they evolved beyond "use amibo and pray for certain fish?"

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If you want a real empty "open world," there's FFXII, which has large maps and nothing worth finding. You're still finding Potions in pots at the end of the game!

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FF12 is also an exploration game that punishes you for exploring (re: zodiac spear) so like everything is wrong with that game

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But I also don't want something like Skyrim where you could spend hundreds of hours without ever beating the game. That's too dense for me. BotW falls somewhere in between that.

FFDragon posted...

FF12 is also an exploration game that punishes you for exploring (re: zodiac spear) so like everything is wrong with that game

The worst.

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FFDragon posted...

Have they evolved beyond "use amibo and pray for certain fish?"

https://youtu.be/GBAWshcuPjQ
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Also I think the No Amiibo categories are more popular
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https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/t_original/x1qyfewicghamciwkynq.gif

Wheeeeeeee
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Leonhart4 posted...

That's too dense for me.

Either I don't know what you mean by dense or you're misunderstanding me

I waste time in Skyrim not by going on quest lines-- just by looking around the world, going into random caves and wilderness areas, finding the treasure in them, killing random bads you find that you won't find anywhere else but this cave cause a lot of monsters just don't exist in a lot of spots, etc.

I mean there are some quest lines if you find them but I just find exploring the world to be really rewarding cause of all the diverse settings and stuff you can find. I guess lots of people will have different experiences though.

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By doing the same thing as every other "open world" game only worse?

Because that's all BotW did. Instead of trying to be, y'know, a Zelda game.
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I'm glad they didn't try to make just another Zelda game.

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I really liked BOTW and I enjoyed exploring for the sake of exploring but there does definitely reach a point where you see something cool and think "oh wow I wonder what's at the top of THAT hill" and you already know it's going to be:

75% a korok seed
10% a shrine
5% some unique cool thing
5% nothing
5% a fire sword or something

I can understand that hampering the exploration if you're playing the game with a value based mindset (the way most of us have been trained to play video games for 20 years) but that's also what makes the game unique. You could say it's lazy or cheap to have the world so "empty" but I think that was deliberate to try to get you to just enjoy exploring.

If there were more value points then you'd feel disappointed when you explore something and there's nothing there. I think exploring and searching are two very different things and there are plenty of open world games where you're SEARCHING instead of exploring.

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Thats one way of looking at it. The other is saying theres almost no point in exploring because a vast majority of what you find is nothing leaving next to 0 value points altogether in a sand box that feels like 2 billion miles of emptiness

I loved exploring for the sake of it. I think that was the point for many people and why it may be difficult for some fans to convey why they liked BotW so much - because everyone had a unique experience. We all went through the same Water Temple, following the same general pathway, at the same point in Ocarina's narrative - but when I tell you guys about the stone cold pause-and-stare I did when I saw my first Lynel, it might not connect with you because odds are you have a completely different Lynel story.

And that's the impasse, I guess. When I climbed all those hills in the Faron region, wondering what awaited me at the top, I stopped dead in my tracks because I finally saw my first Lynel. That feeling of discovering him up there was one of the most unforgettable I've had as a gamer in years, even though I was way too scared to test him and just jumped my ass back down. For someone else, that moment may have been pointless because "nothing was up there".

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I'm right there with you KamikazePotato.

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Was going to make a long post responding to some of the messages in this topic, but:

LeonhartFour posted...

I like the fact that Breath of the Wild's world doesn't have a million and one things in it. That kind of open world structure is a bit overwhelming because there's like this pressure to go here, then there, then here, then there, and there's no time to breathe. With Breath of the Wild, everything's leisurely. You can start going somewhere, get curious about something along the way, and then get back to what you were originally doing, or just not. It's great.

skullbone posted...

I can understand that hampering the exploration if you're playing the game with a value based mindset (the way most of us have been trained to play video games for 20 years) but that's also what makes the game unique. You could say it's lazy or cheap to have the world so "empty" but I think that was deliberate to try to get you to just enjoy exploring.

If there were more value points then you'd feel disappointed when you explore something and there's nothing there. I think exploring and searching are two very different things and there are plenty of open world games where you're SEARCHING instead of exploring.

CaptainOfCrush posted...

I loved exploring for the sake of it. I think that was the point for many people and why it may be difficult for some fans to convey why they liked BotW so much - because everyone had a unique experience. We all went through the same Water Temple, following the same general pathway, at the same point in Ocarina's narrative - but when I tell you guys about the stone cold pause-and-stare I did when I saw my first Lynel, it might not connect with you because odds are you have a completely different Lynel story.

And that's the impasse, I guess. When I climbed all those hills in the Faron region, wondering what awaited me at the top, I stopped dead in my tracks because I finally saw my first Lynel. That feeling of discovering him up there was one of the most unforgettable I've had as a gamer in years, even though I was way too scared to test him and just jumped my ass back down. For someone else, that moment may have been pointless because "nothing was up there".

Everyone already summed up my thoughts for me.

All I have to add is that I've played every other open world game mentioned in this topic, and the only game I'd put on the same level as BotW is Fallout: New Vegas, and I like that for entirely different reasons than BotW.

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Also, I think that the complaint about "enemy variety" is an aesthetic one that has gained traction somewhat unfairly. Bokoblins as an enemy type may all look similar, but they're more dynamic in terms of gameplay/behavior/interaction than like half the enemies in a typical Zelda game combined. Imagine if Bokoblins in this game could only wield swords, but other humanoid enemies with a different names and appearances could each do one of the following:

• Wield large two handed weapons capable of knocking Link off his feet
• Wield spears to poke at the player from a longer melee distance
• Use bows and arrows
• Alert their encampments as scouts
• Ride horses

Would that really be considered a larger variety of enemies when each Bokoblin in the game can already do all of those things and more? I dunno, I never got tired of the enemies (but I am tired of the way GameFAQs presents bullet points now, holy).

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ngl was kinda hoping not have to see another BotW thinkpiece topic until the sequel came out but good for y'all

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Bane_Of_Despair posted...

ngl was kinda hoping not have to see another BotW thinkpiece topic until the sequel came out but good for y'all

I mean BotW2 isn't for a while yet

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I think its a fair criticism because even if they can do different stuff theyre still all Bokoblins and you meet like 98% of the non-boss enemy types you will ever see in the game just on the Great Plateau. I mean it would be one thing if the bosses at least were good enough to make up for that, but they all sucked too

Wasnt sure if I should spoiler that or not at first, edited it in just to be safe

LeonhartFour posted...

I mean BotW2 isn't for a while yet

That was why I was hoping because I think it's been done to death on BotW already

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I'm playing it for the first time now so it doesn't matter to me how many thinkpiece topics there have been prior to this one!

I've only done two bosses so far (water divine beast and sand divine beast) and I really liked the sand divine beast boss, but I don't think either of them is very different in quality compared to most other Zelda bosses.

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Bane_Of_Despair posted...

That was why I was hoping because I think it's been done to death on BotW already

it's been done to death for you but this is a fresh experience for some people and they like to talk about it because it's cool

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Honestly I'm pretty okay with there being so many Bokoblins because it makes more sense to me for a smaller amount of types of enemies to do a wider range of things than to shoehorn in a bunch of random enemy types to fill those roles. Makes it feel more cohesive.

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oh if it's your first time playing fair enough, although that surprises me coming from you

I'd say it's like a 7/10 game for me but it's a neat enough game

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swordz9 posted...

Wasnt sure if I should spoiler that or not at first, edited it in just to be safe

I definitely agree with your last spoiler point; it's one of my few gripes with the game, with possibly the largest being that rain can bring all exploration to a screeching halt (I'm sure KP has already experienced this when climbing).

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Bane_Of_Despair posted...

ngl was kinda hoping not have to see another BotW thinkpiece topic until the sequel came out but good for y'all

No one's forcing you to click on the topic...

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That's why I said good for y'all, I didn't realize it was KP's first time playing. Thought it was just another one those daily reminders that BotW is the greatest game ever type of things

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Bane_Of_Despair posted...

That's why I said good for y'all, I didn't realize it was KP's first time playing. Thought it was just another one those daily reminders that BotW is the greatest game ever type of things

I feel like the topic title alone made it pretty clear this was a first experience...!

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CaptainOfCrush posted...

I definitely agree with your last spoiler point; it's one of my few gripes with the game, with possibly the largest being that rain can bring all exploration to a screeching halt (I'm sure KP has already experienced this when climbing).

It's not so bad now that I have the equipment set that increases climbing speed (let Link climb for six beats -> jump -> slide down a bit, repeat, actually works pretty well) but in the early game it was rough.

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I actually meant to put something like "I'm late to the party on this..." in the topic title but nothing fit properly and sounded good.

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LeonhartFour posted...

I feel like the topic title alone made it pretty clear this was a first experience...!

I can see it either way tbh

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The rain thing is annoying, but like everything else in the game, you learn to adjust to it.

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Bane_Of_Despair posted...

That's why I said good for y'all, I didn't realize it was KP's first time playing. Thought it was just another one those daily reminders that BotW is the greatest game ever type of things

That's irrelevant honestly. Just let people enjoy what they enjoy.

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Bane_Of_Despair posted...

I can see it either way tbh

"is redefining" sounds like this is currently happening to me not something that has already happened

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All I'm seeing is that people coming into this topic to complain about BotW ruining the Zelda series (whether it's my first time playing it or not) means I still have carte blance to complain about MGS3 ruining the MGS series in every topic about MGS. Seems like a fair tradeoff.

In all seriousness, I can see why fans of the Zelda Formula might be put off by this game but while I overall like Zelda games I didn't like them nearly as much as most people do. Whatever Breath of the Wild is trying to be, it just works for me.

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