Current Events > So the TRoS novel invalidates Anakin's chosen one status

(+) Yeah! (+)

Basically when Anakin threw Palpatine he transfers his essence into a clone on Exogol. So Palpatine never died and Anakin never brought balance to the Force.

Also the sith cultists made many clones of Palpatine most were failures, but one was kept and became Palpatines son. So Rey is his daughter/granddaughter not sure how that works?

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am I they only one who never gave a shit about the whole 'chosen one'/prophecy whatever business

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ClunkerSlim posted...

The chosen one prophecy was bullshit anyway.

yeah it never really amounted to anything, and Ive never seen Anakin even in TCW do anything far better than other skilled Jedi of his time.

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It seems like Disney is tearing down Lucass characters to prop up their OC.

Lucas said that Anakin killing Palpatine completed the prophecy. Why change that now?

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I want to say that Palpatine's return negates Vader's sacrifice, but that scene was already ruined by 'NOOOO.'

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Is anyone honestly surprised that disney is tearing down and ruining the thing Lucas cared about ?


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Who fucking cares as long as we can keep consuming product?

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What a very Star Wars way of arguing that Palpatine doesn't fuck.

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Hold on. Wait. Palpatine was meant to be a clone in Episode 9? I thought he survived "dying" in Episode 6, and had been hiding out on that planet for a long time?

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Sunhawk posted...

Hold on. Wait. Palpatine was meant to be a clone in Episode 9? I thought he survived "dying" in Episode 6, and had been hiding out on that planet for a long time?

Nothing is true, everything is permitted

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Oh no, not a half assed, sleight-of-hand retcon of one of George Lucas's stupider ideas. How will I ever love again.

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ViewtifulGrave posted...

It seems like Disney is tearing down Lucass characters to prop up their OC.

Implying Lucas' characters were standing on stable ground.

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ClunkerSlim posted...

The chosen one prophecy was bullshit anyway.

True but this shit about him transferring his "essence" to a clone as he was being thrown is also terrible.

I don't know which one is worse. The RotS retcon is stupider but at least it's more original.

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ViewtifulGrave posted...

Basically when Anakin threw Palpatine he transfers his essence into a clone on Exogol. So Palpatine never died and Anakin never brought balance to the Force.

Also the sith cultists made many clones of Palpatine most were failures, but one was kept and became Palpatines son. So Rey is his daughter/granddaughter not sure how that works?

That's kind of the way it works in the old EU that people like to say is better than the disney sequels, while bitching about this very same sort of thing.

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Well one thing we can confirm is that Luke certainly was never the chosen one. He's just a regular dude who got lucky and ended up a grumpy, old hermit.

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The fact that Palpatine is still around at all invalidates Anakin's prophecy.

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The film also brings a positive twist to that scene IMO.

Anakin killed Palpatine and based on what was said, the essence of the Sith would have transferred to Anakin. However I like to think this proves he became a Jedi again in the end because it/Palp was forced to transfer to a clone.

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CyricZ posted...

Implying Lucas' characters were standing on stable ground.

What are you getting at?

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Who the fuck cares?

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Outside of the universe, the prophecy was always a cheap narrative device to push the idea that Anakin should be in the Order rather than establish some actual concrete reason.

Inside of the universe, one could easily make the case that the Chosen One hasn't come yet. Anakin, Luke, Rey, all of them failed in some aspect. Hell, the prophecy could be complete bullshit.

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Lol, I remember people going "well 35 years of balance is still balance"

Being serious though, is this canon? This would essentially make Rey his copy's daughter. Are they implying clones were independent till Palpatine took over?"

Also this is basically exactly stolen from the EU lmao. Like from years before the PT even came out.

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man the sequel trilogy is a fuckin mess

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He did save his son, Luke, though.

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ScazarMeltex posted...

That's kind of the way it works in the old EU that people like to say is better than the disney sequels, while bitching about this very same sort of thing.

Yeah... I was never a fan of the EU. Especially hearing stories of Luke pulling star destroyers and black holes. From what I understand this Palpatine clone business is from an old EU comic called Dark Empire. Which is weird because Kathleen Kennedy said that they didnt have source material like novels and comics to work with.

EvalAngell posted...

Well one thing we can confirm is that Luke certainly was never the chosen one. He's just a regular dude who got lucky and ended up a grumpy, old hermit.

People thought this?

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ViewtifulGrave posted...

Which is weird because Kathleen Kennedy said that they didnt have source material like novels and comics to work with.

Well that doesn't mean you can't come up with similar ideas. Also, those works exist, and saying "we're not going to directly refer to those" doesn't mean they don't exist in peoples' minds.

Dark Empire was bananas. Luke just goes to the dark side because he thinks it's the best way to beat it.

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archedsoul posted...

Lol, I remember people going "well 35 years of balance is still balance"

Being serious though, is this canon? This would essentially make Rey his copy's daughter. Are they implying clones were independent till Palpatine took over?"

Also this is basically exactly stolen from the EU lmao. Like from years before the PT even came out.

Yeah it's pretty dumb in the EU too. I would have been okay with Palpatine being the mastermind behind the events of the sequels as long as he was still very much dead. Would be a testament to how much of a threat he was if his schemes were still unfolding despite being a corpse. I guess the only problem with that is that it doesn't really make sense for Palpatine's goals. He never really seemed like the type to care about the Sith or even the Empire, with his primary concern being power and immortality for himself. So I guess based on that I understand why they've gone the cloning route in both the EU and now in canon. What good is setting up the events of the sequels if he can't be around to profit from it?

Still, as it is now, it definitely cheapens the ending of ROTJ to me. Maybe my opinion will change whenever I actually watch Episode 9, but I doubt it.

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If we got a scale with all the Jedis on one side and all the siths on the other side...

...then bringing it to balance means that you must either remove most Jedis or add a fuckton of Siths...

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CyricZ posted...

Also, those works exist, and saying "we're not going to directly refer to those" doesn't mean they don't exist in peoples' minds.

But thats not what she said.

Every one of these movies is a particularly hard nut to crack. Theres no source material. We dont have comic books. We dont have 800-page novels. We dont have anything other than passionate storytellers who get together and talk about what the next iteration might be.

Plus we know shes lying because Bob Iger says he bought Lucass scripts for the sequel trilogy.

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Wasn't the clone shit from the EU before Disney ever even had SW?

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Foppe posted...

If we got a scale with all the Jedis on one side and all the siths on the other side...

...then bringing it to balance means that you must either remove most Jedis or add a fuckton of Siths...

No balance is a removal of the Sith. The Sith are a cancer upon the Force. It not a balance in equal parts, it more of a balance in harmony.

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Sheev returning in the EU wasn't handled the best, but Dark Empire 1 and 2 were definitely fire. I never got to Empire's End because I spoiled myself, but it was fun.

Essentially he kept returning despite killing him several times during this trilogy. Luke had fallen to the Dark Side and it was up to Leia, Han and a Jedi that had escaped the Purge (whose name was pretty much the same as Nomi Sunrider's daughter. More on that in a bit) to stop them. Eventually Han shot the bastard in the back IIRC and he got sucked into some void, which finally got rid of him..

The thing about Dark Empire and Tales of the Jedi is whether people know several of these were dramatized in audio format. It wasn't just a guy reading a book. It was basically entire movies in audio form with VAs voicing the actors. Luke sounded just like Mark Hamill, so it felt like you were listening to the actual OT sequels and prequels.

Highly recommended if anybody is ever interested.

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Why would his clone be all old and shit? So dumb.
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ViewtifulGrave posted...

But thats not what she said.

I get that. I'm saying it doesn't matter what she says. They exist in the past as ideas. They don't get deleted from minds.

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Before Anakin:
Thousands of jedi.
A few sith.

After Anakin:
A few jedi
A few sith.

Prophecy fulfilled.

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https://youtu.be/_5I9uGjdCLw

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s0nicfan posted...

Before Anakin:
Thousands of jedi.
A few sith.

After Anakin:
A few jedi
A few sith.

Prophecy fulfilled.

George Lucas defines balance as the removal of the toxicity of the dark side, a la the removal of toxins from blood. You return things to balance by eliminating whatever is causing them to go out of whack; thus, you keep the Force in balance by making the light side pure and free of the dark side.

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ViewtifulGrave posted...

George Lucas defines balance as the removal of the toxicity of the dark side, a la the removal of toxins from blood. You return things to balance by eliminating whatever is causing them to go out of whack; thus, you keep the Force in balance by making the light side pure and free of the dark side.

in which case anakin did literally nothing

RiKuToTheMiGhtY posted...

Is anyone honestly surprised that disney is tearing down and ruining the thing Lucas cared about ?

He cared about it up until Disney cut him a check.

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At this point, I'm pretty content with just ignoring everything that happened in the Disney trilogy
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UnholyMudcrab posted...

At this point, I'm pretty content with just ignoring everything that happened in the Disney trilogy

might as well, really doesn't add anything of value except "the empire but bigger"

DarthAragorn posted...

in which case anakin did literally nothing

Thats because Disney retcond it.

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ViewtifulGrave posted...

Thats because Disney retcond it.

The EU retconned it a long time ago.

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codey posted...

Wasn't the clone shit from the EU before Disney ever even had SW?

Yeah but ya know Der Fuhrer Mickey needs to consume everything for mega profit domination.

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The sequel trilogy is just bad fanfic in my mind so fuck it

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lol, Disney
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when was the last time disney actually wrote a good story

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I mean, since the focus of the franchise is now moving to High Republic, I think it's possible to ignore anything Sequel Trilogy for a good long while.

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codey posted...

The EU retconned it a long time ago.

Not really.

The EU was always an after thought. Lucas had no involvement with it, he just tolerated it.

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the grand and lofty prophecy of picking up an old man and throwing him in a hole

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