Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 284: NYSE Guys Finish Last

(+) Yeah! (+)

Corrik7 posted...

https://twitter.com/RepJoeKennedy/status/1239920721792565250?s=20

Jesus this would be 10k for my household.

Oh fuck yes, me too

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

https://twitter.com/brprigge/status/1239889341264138242?s=21

This seems not good

but switching to voting by mail would just be dumb

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Jakyl25 posted...

Do you still know people who think its all overblown or a hoax?

I, myself, am now firmly in the "overblown" camp.

Of course, three weeks ago when I was stocking food and TP, I was in the "people aren't taking this seriously enough" camp.

It's almost like there's a middle ground somewhere between "do nothing" and "shut down the economy for two months."

Public opinion is fickle. The pendulum has swung too far, too fast. This is mostly because of how fucking terrible the media is.

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SmartMuffin posted...

I, myself, am now firmly in the "overblown" camp.

Of course, three weeks ago when I was stocking food and TP, I was in the "people aren't taking this seriously enough" camp.

It's almost like there's a middle ground somewhere between "do nothing" and "shut down the economy for two months."

Public opinion is fickle. The pendulum has swung too far, too fast. This is mostly because of how fucking terrible the media is.

You admit you've overreacted in both directions and it's all the media's fault?

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red sox 777 posted...

So I'd still prefer a payroll tax cut but I'll settle for Romney's $1000 offer.

I'd prefer a special unemployment for COVID layoffs/closures that pays at a higher rate.

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I don't know if these shut downs make sense. I have to assume Trump knows more than I do regarding it.

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Maniac64 posted...

I'd prefer a special unemployment for COVID layoffs/closures that pays at a higher rate.

You are dangerously close to an idea where it is better to be laid off than to work. Just FYI.

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NFUN posted...

but switching to voting by mail would just be dumb

Illinois has voting by mail, by the way (in that it is an option but you have to specifically request a ballot from your county clerk, you don't just get a ballot in the mail automatically).

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Yo Joe

SmartMuffin posted...

I, myself, am now firmly in the "overblown" camp.

Of course, three weeks ago when I was stocking food and TP, I was in the "people aren't taking this seriously enough" camp.

It's almost like there's a middle ground somewhere between "do nothing" and "shut down the economy for two months."

Public opinion is fickle. The pendulum has swung too far, too fast. This is mostly because of how fucking terrible the media is.

Why were you hoarding food if you DIDNT think everything would get shut down
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the fact that Mitch McConnell is holding up the relief bill that passed four days ago makes me just flat out hope that he [redacted]. Honestly, him and his whole fucking family can [redacted]. So disgusted.

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Trump live press conference (paraphrasing): We did a fantastic job. The only thing we did poorly was getting good press.

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Real talk: is there any chance anyone is dumb enough to vote Trump who wouldn't have if this relief bill goes through because "Trump sent me thousands of dollars"?

The answer to any question that begins with is there anyone dumb enough is always yes.

So with all the calls for the government to bail out various industries is showing that all the measures taken in response to the 2008 financial crisis totally failed to get rid of the expectation that companies can be too big to fail

If we can't get companies to not be too big to fail, perhaps it's time to rethink the limited liability nature of them. Specifically, companies make lots of money during good times and it all gets paid to shareholders as dividends or through a levered buyout. If a company isn't loaded with debt, shareholders demand that the capital be paid out to them or aggressively reinvested, and that the company be loaded with debt so that those funds can fund even more aggressive expansion or payouts. Then when the bad times come the profits have been squirreled away and the company demands a bailout from the government.

Staying in debt forever has become a favorite business strategy. Of course, Trump has lots of experience with this. He kept his casinos perpetually drowning in debt. No, it's not because Trump was an exceptionally poor manager of casinos. It's because he believed he could make more money with less risk using other people's money as capital rather than his own. And it's a practice the casino industry has adopted nearly across the board leading to, for example, Caesars being down 50% in a week.

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ExThaNemesis posted...

the fact that Mitch McConnell is holding up the relief bill that passed four days ago makes me just flat out hope that he [redacted]. Honestly, him and his whole fucking family can [redacted]. So disgusted.

This is incorrect.

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Corrik7 posted...

You are dangerously close to an idea where it is better to be laid off than to work. Just fyi

Ok.

This is an emergency situation and it would still pay less than full wages. But yeah I'm ok with that for COVID related shutdowns.

Honestly, the result of "it's better to shut down and lay people off for COVID than keep them working" seems to be what CDC and governments are saying already.

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So both Mitt Romney and Donald Trump understand what I'm talking about because in their businesses they have loads of experience with this levered buyout stuff. Mitt called it "creative destruction"- creating value for Mitt by destroying the company being bought. I hope they can see that while they did it because it was legal, that doesn't mean it should continue.

A company like Caesars or Boeing should have ample retained earnings, built up from years of profit, that can be used to keep the company afloat during times like this. Or, if the board wants to spend all the earnings on aggressive expansion - fine - but don't come ask for a bailout because you can't pay your employees when times get bad.

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Why were you hoarding food if you DIDNT think everything would get shut down

Because it's low risk, high reward? And because I was (correctly) betting on the media eventually creating mass hysteria?

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UBI train now taking passengers choo choo. (lmao payroll tax cut get dunked on): https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1239909162995388417

To be serious: I assume he means one-or-two time check cuts of $1000 than actual UBI but still it's a much better option at least.

WH still hiring "the best people": https://twitter.com/weijia/status/1239923246801334283

We really can't overlook the racism that Trump and the GOP are trying to stoke as they continue to use language like this. This particular instance is beyond blatant but you keep seeing it crop up.

And finally, over at DOJ...: https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1239704529219866626

DOJ drops their case against a Russian firm that was indicted by Mueller for election interference just weeks before trial. I see Trump and Barr aren't missing a chance to bury stories when the news is completely consumed by COVID-19.

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Corrik7 posted...

You are dangerously close to an idea where it is better to be laid off than to work. Just FYI.

most definitely the case here, yes.
though honestly, i'd be okay with that as an emergency situation. it won't cause inflation because there's no money flowing in the market TO inflate.

it would be an amazing save by government.

xp1337 posted...

UBI train now taking passengers choo choo.

i'm in awe at how Yang managed to move so much in a year.
from a silly idea nobody would do to this.


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Unless I missed it, it is extremely disappointing that neither of the Democratic candidates have come out in favor of a UBI type payment of some kind.

They really need to SOON, or they're going to have to spend the general fighting against a Republican from the RIGHT of this.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Unless I missed it, it is extremely disappointing that neither of the Democratic candidates have come out in favor of a UBI type payment of some kind.

They really need to SOON, or they're going to have to spend the general fighting against a Republican from the RIGHT of this.

Gonna be 2 elections in a row!

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https://twitter.com/TheBabylonBee/status/1239986129136427015

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Unless I missed it, it is extremely disappointing that neither of the Democratic candidates have come out in favor of a UBI type payment of some kind.

They really need to SOON, or they're going to have to spend the general fighting against a Republican from the RIGHT of this.

There's a bunch of dem congresspeople tripping over each other to propose stuff on this right now. Biden is probably waiting for the dust to settle on a good one. Bernie who even knows, so far he just keeps using it to plug his other policies.

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https://twitter.com/heatherscope/status/1239963066629885953?s=20

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https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/1239946523456286722?s=19

https://twitter.com/JStein_WaPo/status/1239967561380315139?s=19

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The House Democrats will fold if the Republicans play hardball with them. They will fold like they always do.

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I think I am more on board with the unemployment thing than the $1000 check idea. $1000 just doesn't seem to move the needle much when rents are high and mortgages, and I can't see this being a 2 week thing. If this were just a 2 week thing that is one thing. But this isn't gonna be.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Unless I missed it, it is extremely disappointing that neither of the Democratic candidates have come out in favor of a UBI type payment of some kind.

They really need to SOON, or they're going to have to spend the general fighting against a Republican from the RIGHT of this.

the first person who even mentioned this was a democratic candidate!
Tulsi Gabbard.

...totally serious on that, she actually was the first.


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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/1239946523456286722?s=19

https://twitter.com/JStein_WaPo/status/1239967561380315139?s=19

I read that article and saw nothing that was in that Twitter post in it.

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Wanglicious posted...

the first person who even mentioned this was a democratic candidate!
Tulsi Gabbard.

...totally serious on that, she actually was the first.

That's why Tulsi is the best democrat nominee. And she should be allowed to debate. She is about bridging the sides together. Not playing politics to attack. That's how she made this come together.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

There's a bunch of dem congresspeople tripping over each other to propose stuff on this right now. Biden is probably waiting for the dust to settle on a good one. Bernie who even knows, so far he just keeps using it to plug his other policies.

Biden has zero vision so Im not surprised at all.

But Bernies twitter is actively tweeting his normal stuff and saying nothing about it, and its utterly disappointing. Its killing me because he has the opportunity to flex here as an active candidate known to propose radical ideas.

Meanwhile, Kamala Harris is embarrassing the fuck out of herself:

https://twitter.com/mattbruenig/status/1239954759110602752?s=21

$500 for entire families, $250 for single adults, with exceptions! Its like the worst of both worlds and makes Tom fucking Cotton look like a Progressive.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Biden has zero vision so Im not surprised at all.

But Bernies twitter is actively tweeting his normal stuff and saying nothing about it, and its utterly disappointing. Its killing me because he has the opportunity to flex here as an active candidate known to propose radical ideas.

Meanwhile, Kamala Harris is embarrassing the fuck out of herself:

https://twitter.com/mattbruenig/status/1239954759110602752?s=21

$500 for entire families, $250 for single adults, with exceptions! Its like the worst of both worlds and makes Tom fucking Cotton look like a Progressive.

I'm not sure what I am looking at in comparison to what she is saying, but the chart is a tax credit. Obviously it would phase in as you owe tax.

Also, her credit is a year long thing. It's 250 to 500 a month. For 3,000 to 6,000 a year.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Biden has zero vision so Im not surprised at all.

But Bernies twitter is actively tweeting his normal stuff and saying nothing about it, and its utterly disappointing. Its killing me because he has the opportunity to flex here as an active candidate known to propose radical ideas.

Meanwhile, Kamala Harris is embarrassing the fuck out of herself:

https://twitter.com/mattbruenig/status/1239954759110602752?s=21

$500 for entire families, $250 for single adults, with exceptions! Its like the worst of both worlds and makes Tom fucking Cotton look like a Progressive.

And they still don't understand why they lost to Donald Trump. #ThisIsWhyTheyLost.

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Corrik7 posted...

I read that article and saw nothing that was in that Twitter post in it.

It's supplementing the mentions in the article of Democratic congresspeople supporting the idea.

You're not actually questioning that Bennet, Booker, and Brown are spearheading such legislation from the Senate Democrats, are you? Because you can find that reporting pretty easily even if it's not detailed in that specific WaPo article. Because they have been.

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xp1337 posted...

It's supplementing the mentions in the article of Democratic congresspeople supporting the idea.

You're not actually questioning that Bennet, Booker, and Brown are spearheading such legislation from the Senate Democrats, are you? Because you can find that reporting pretty easily even if it's not detailed in that specific WaPo article. Because they have been.

No. I am saying I was interested on the phase out details and read the article to see how their plan works, and it is nonexistent in the article.

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Yeah, Harris's proposal is a per month thing as opposed to a lot of the proposals, like Romney's, being framed as a one-time check lol.

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Corrik7 posted...

I'm not sure what I am looking at in comparison to what she is saying, but the chart is a tax credit. Obviously it would phase in as you owe tax.

Also, her credit is a year long thing. It's 250 to 500 a month. For 3,000 to 6,000 a year.

xp1337 posted...

Yeah, Harris's proposal is a per month thing as opposed to a lot of the proposals, like Romney's, being framed as a one-time check lol.

Tom Cotton is proposing $1000 a month for single adults and $4000 per month for a family of four.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

$500 for entire families, $250 for single adults, with exceptions! Its like the worst of both worlds and makes Tom f***ing Cotton look like a Progressive.

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Corrik7 posted...

No. I am saying I was interested on the phase out details and read the article to see how their plan works, and it is nonexistent in the article.

I don't think the proposal is finalized. I know a spokesman for Bennet framed it as 2k immediately and depending on how long the crisis continues additional payments of $1.5k and $1k would trigger.

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I didn't say Harris's proposal was the best! It isn't! It's just not the worst either.

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Wanglicious posted...

i'm in awe at how Yang managed to move so much in a year.
from a silly idea nobody would do to this.

eh, tulsi already wanted UBI before yang (as you pointed out) and romney only wants it because of the coronavirus (and almost certainly not in the way yang was proposing it). yang probably did make it a more popular idea but it's not that impressive.

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Corrik7 posted...

That's why Tulsi is the best democrat nominee. And she should be allowed to debate. She is about bridging the sides together. Not playing politics to attack. That's how she made this come together.

"we need to work together" isn't a bad message but it's dumb to base your entire campaign around that kind of rhetoric. you shouldn't bend over backwards for your opponent before any kind of negotiations have even started.

that being said, i wouldn't mind her being allowed to debate.

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xp1337 posted...

I didn't say Harris's proposal was the best! It isn't! It's just not the worst either.

I disagree for the following reasons, it's not a good stopgap for people underemployed/unemployed during this pandemic, and it's not enough for a stimulus.

The single adult amount is comparable to what a person on minimum wage makes in one week, and it's supposed to last the whole month? Sure, something is better than nothing, but this is a laughable amount of something.

It's also not enough to make people spend, it's so little it's all going to bills, so it doesn't really work as a stimulus.

But I will concede it's not as bad as her Student Debt Forgiveness proposal, which was actually comedic:

If you are a Pell Grant recipient, who opens a business in an underprivileged community, that has been open for at least 3 years, then you can apply for $20,000 in student debt forgiveness. Hilarious.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I disagree for the following reasons, it's not a good stopgap for people underemployed/unemployed during this pandemic, and it's not enough for a stimulus.

The single adult amount is comparable to what a person on minimum wage makes in one week, and it's supposed to last the whole month? Sure, something is better than nothing, but this is a laughable amount of something.

It's also not enough to make people spend, it's so little it's all going to bills, so it doesn't really work as a stimulus.

But I will concede it's not as bad as her Student Debt Forgiveness proposal, which was actually comedic:

If you are a Pell Grant recipient, who opens a business in an underprivileged community, that has been open for at least 3 years, then you can apply for $20,000 in student debt forgiveness. Hilarious.

That's just insulting.

Mr Lasastryke posted...

that being said, i wouldn't mind her being allowed to debate.

It would have given the two candidates someone they could freely dunk on and score points against. The last debate was awfully dull.

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Also honestly it shouldn't be that hard to pass a very simple plan that gives every adult $1000 a month and then like $250 or some number per child(Scaling downward per child) or something. Start it for 2 months and then be prepared to reup and do it again.

(And lets be real, once the government starts giving us something akin to a UBI they are going to be hard pressed to take it away)

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I'm glad the government is paying people not to work (though the states taking the most extreme measures should foot the bill for their constituents). It's slightly less authoritarian than just closing all private enterprise and telling wage workers to fuck off.

But I still feel this damage and precedent is irreparable.

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Broke: Electing Hillary Clinton as President

Woke: Electing Donald Trump and getting UBI because he fucks up a pandemic response

Accelerationists vindicated

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