Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 286: God Save the Hydroxychloroquine

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.washingtonian.com/2020/03/09/hand-washing-is-now-a-partisan-issue/

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I was extremely distressed about how low those numbers were before noticing the date

Hopefully they've improved since then

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KamikazePotato posted...

https://www.washingtonian.com/2020/03/09/hand-washing-is-now-a-partisan-issue/

Across a variety of measures, the data finds that Republicans are taking fewer steps to prevent the spread of the disease. Fewer Republicans than Democrats said that they had worked from home (3 percent, compared to 6 percent of Democrats); that they were altering traveling plans (3 percent, compared to 8 percent of Democrats); and that they had purchased preventative materials for the virus (6 percent, compared to 11 percent of Democrats).

The starkest contrast, however, shows up in subject of personal hygiene.
By a margin of ten percent, Republicans are less likely to say that they are washing my hands or using disinfectant more frequently. Thirty-eight percent of Republicans said yes, compared to 48 percent of Democrats.

These are all dumb questions.

1. Work from home more. Can't if not offered.

2. Altering travel plans. Can't if don't have travel plans.

3. Washing hands more frequently. Maybe they already washed their hands a bunch prior so it doesn't seem more frequently. I mean, hell you could argue dems have less hygiene on that question because it takes a crisis for them to wash their hands. Lol.

Just a dumb poll.

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Maybe Im missing something, but what lead people to believe we were getting a UBI/multiple payments? I thought that wasnt ever really on the table.

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HashtagSEP posted...

Maybe Im missing something, but what lead people to believe we were getting a UBI/multiple payments? I thought that wasnt ever really on the table.

Well not if this is all over by Easter <_<
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Actually, is there really a good reason to be doing temporary UBI rather than boosting unemployment benefits/giving those benefits to people who are being furloughed? Like, I personally don't desperately need an extra $1200, and the same is likely to be true of 75% or whatever of the country who don't lose their jobs from this. Shouldn't we just be giving four times as much money to the people actually affected, then?

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You're again getting to the fact that the more stringent the means testing, the more delays to getting money out.

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What a fucking pathetic person

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1242777450662244352

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HashtagSEP posted...

Maybe Im missing something, but what lead people to believe we were getting a UBI/multiple payments? I thought that wasnt ever really on the table.

UBI was never happening. I assumed all of us here were joking/memeing about it as a kind of dark humor coping method.

Multiple payments I don't think was an unreasonable belief though, there were multiple proposals that didn't appear like they had to be DOA that included a second or third payment (usually reduced though) if the pandemic continued past certain deadlines though of course it was the steeper hill.

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Unsurprisingly, Trump's approval ratings have shot up--almost certainly because he is seemingly the only major politician who understands that the dangers of "shelter in place" far outweigh the risks of going to work and spreading coronavirus. The fact that the Democrats are conflating with his desire to get people back to work so they can feed their families or save their small businesses as "only caring about Wall Street" just shows how ludicrously out of touch they are.

I strongly advise actually leaving the echo chambers of this topic, Twitter, Facebook, etc. and talking to real people who are affected by the government-mandated closures. I can assure you that their opinions align more closely with those of me and @SmartMuffin , despite what the GameFAQs stasi may think.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

What a fucking pathetic person

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1242777450662244352

"He is a RINO and I like him a lot"

I'm dead

lmao approval ratings shooting up.

There's always a "rally around the flag" effect in time of crisis. Carter had his approval ratings jump up during the beginning of the Iran hostage crisis before they crashed about 3 months into it. Governors are seeing the effect across the country, with jumps of 20-30 points.

trump is up a point on average (from where he was before; his job approval is still underwater by 5-6 points). That he's so inelastic and the rally effect is so weak is more telling. The flip side of the inelastically is I think he can't crash as hard as you might expect

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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Unsurprisingly, Trump's approval ratings have shot up--almost certainly because he is seemingly the only major politician who understands that the dangers of "shelter in place" far outweigh the risks of going to work and spreading coronavirus. The fact that the Democrats are conflating with his desire to get people back to work so they can feed their families or save their small businesses as "only caring about Wall Street" just shows how ludicrously out of touch they are.

I strongly advise actually leaving the echo chambers of this topic, Twitter, Facebook, etc. and talking to real people who are affected by the government-mandated closures. I can assure you that their opinions align more closely with those of me and @SmartMuffin , despite what the GameFAQs stasi may think.

You do realize all this polling came BEFORE his sudden change of "let's reopen everything", right?

His approval rating went up because people are scared and Trump was willing to let the scientists lead for a while. A benefit literally all world leaders are getting right now. Unless you suddenly believe that Macron is beloved in France after months of protesters ready to murder him.

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TheRock1525 posted...

You do realize all this polling came BEFORE his sudden change of "let's reopen everything", right?

You know he does
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Jakyl25 posted...

You know he does

You still need to call him out, though.

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TheRock1525 posted...

You do realize all this polling came BEFORE his sudden change of "let's reopen everything", right?

This will probably help him more tbqh.


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Corrik7 posted...

This will probably help him more tbqh.

When the death toll continues to exponentially climb for the next 2 weeks I'm sure people's first thought will be "yeah we should definitely reopen everything."

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Republican Governors and Senators are pushing back against "let's reopen everything" lol. You have Ernst and Graham arguing the other way.

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Even economists also agree that the measures are necessary, apparently. Though I will say I don't have anywhere close to the expertise required to critically evaluate these claims.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/24/business/economy/coronavirus-economy.html

There is, however, a widespread consensus among economists and public health experts that lifting the restrictions would impose huge costs in additional lives lost to the virus and deliver little lasting benefit to the economy.

Its useful to adopt the cost-benefit frame, but the moment you do that, the outcomes are so overwhelming that you dont need to fill in the details to know what to do, said Justin Wolfers, an economist at the University of Michigan.

The only case in which the benefits of lifting restrictions outweigh the costs in lost lives, Mr. Wolfers said, would be if the epidemiologists are lying to us about people dying.

Of course I'm sure Seph will zero in on the "if the epidemiologists are lying to us" bit, but it's good to highlight his position as the insanity that it is.
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TheRock1525 posted...

When the death toll continues to exponentially climb for the next 2 weeks I'm sure people's first thought will be "yeah we should definitely reopen everything."

Just watch.

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https://theintercept.com/2020/03/24/joe-biden-metoo-times-up/

https://mobile.twitter.com/kthalps/status/1242692501762433029

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Too bad hes already dead and theyll never get justice
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Organizations worrying that they can't support cases against politicians because of fear of retaliation and losing their non-profit status is disgusting.

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Some of the insurance fraud schemes that are coming up due to the Coronavirus are really, really stupid.

I work in the Fraud Investigation Department, and we have dentists billing a $700 teledentistry exam.... Along with teeth cleanings and fillings. These people make our job really easy.

Edit: I feel like I should clarify this before people go nuts over evil insurance companies denying claims. There's a place of treatment code that's on every claim form, and these people are marking that they're doing things like fillings or periodontal surgery while putting that the services are teledentistry. It's not a case where someone does an exam over the phone, and then goes into the office for treatment. They're saying that they did services remotely when it's not possible.

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https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/25/politics/senate-deal-stimulus-checks-coronavirus/index.html

Qualifying income levels will be based on 2019 federal tax returns, if already filed, and otherwise on 2018 returns

Thank fucking god, I'm saved. Luckily I did my taxes this year like February 1st.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Actually, is there really a good reason to be doing temporary UBI rather than boosting unemployment benefits/giving those benefits to people who are being furloughed? Like, I personally don't desperately need an extra $1200, and the same is likely to be true of 75% or whatever of the country who don't lose their jobs from this. Shouldn't we just be giving four times as much money to the people actually affected, then?

That's what I said like 2 topics ago.

Corrik said it got to close to making it better to be laid off than working but I believe he still liked it better than some of the other options.

But in the end this is really more a bribe then trying to help as much as possible.

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Maniac64 posted...

Corrik said it got to close to making it better to be laid off than working but I believe he still liked it better than some of the other options.

I mean, I guess it is going to get abused by some. Already seen one person state they were asking their work for a voluntary layoff because they could make the same for 4 months not working than working. (Actually likely more as taxed less so more take home).

And a couple of others hoping they get laid off or their work doesn't start back up.

However, at this point, whatever. Hard to quibble too much about people like that during a crisis though.

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It is funny though that if I hadn't done my taxes early, I could have not claimed my fiancee and her kid as dependents. Which was what $1000. Then she could have filed $0 with her kid as a dependent and been able to get $1700 in this rebate.

Weird scenarios like that can happen.

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Corrik7 posted...

It is funny though that if I hadn't done my taxes early, I could have not claimed my fiancee and her kid as dependents. Which was what $1000. Then she could have filed $0 with her kid as a dependent and been able to get $1700 in this rebate.

Weird scenarios like that can happen.

A dependent exemption is $4,200, so if your marginal tax bracket is 24%, 2 exemptions = $2,016. So it seems you still come out ahead by claiming them.

But basically you are screwed over to the tune of $2,900 for not being married on this rebate. You are also losing something like $7,000 on regular taxes for not being married. I feel like the government probably should not be pushing people into marriage so hard.

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red sox 777 posted...

A dependent exemption is $4,200, so if your marginal tax bracket is 24%, 2 exemptions = $2,016. So it seems you still come out ahead by claiming them.

But basically you are screwed over to the tune of $2,900 for not being married on this rebate. You are also losing something like $7,000 on regular taxes for not being married. I feel like the government probably should not be pushing people into marriage so hard.

No such thing as dependent exemptions anymore. Just credits. I believe the credit on them is both $500 each (possibly $300).

Neither comes up to $1700.

Edit: It's $500 each. So $1000 total vs $1700 rebate.

Also I don't hit the 24% bracket.

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Corrik7 posted...

No such thing as dependent exemptions anymore. Just credits. I believe the credit on them is both $500 each (possibly $300).

Neither comes up to $1700.

Oh that sucks. They should definitely fix this then to make the phase out higher for people with dependents. Although they probably won't because there is no time.

It's like the grad student tax the House had in their original draft of the Trump tax cuts that was going to impose a tax somewhere around 75% on grad students earning 30k a year. Fortunately the Senate caught that one.

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Well, I don't phase out, but I just could have gotten more money for my household by not claiming them and having them file separately a no income file. That is kind of dumb. It is up in the air if I can get the $500 for her son. He isn't a Qualifying child because he isn't mine and we aren't married. So, will that count as a child or not as far as this... I do not know.

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https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1242864722904518657?s=20

People are catching on.

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How does that incentivize employers to lay people off? It seems it incentivizes employees to ask their employers to lay them off.

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red sox 777 posted...

How does that incentivize employers to lay people off? It seems it incentivizes employees to ask their employers to lay them off.

It doesn't say for employers to lay them off. It says for employees to want to be laid off.

For example, let's say my mill has 25 people a crew per shift. They realize they can make the absolute same amount of money for 4 months to be laid off. So, they simply just call off over and over and over until they are let go because they "fear going outside due to the Coronavirus". They will get let go and be eligible for unemployment. (Trust me calling off terminations always get unemployment here).

In the mean time, the plant can't run with the reduced workforce / overtime is too insurmountable. Thus, the plant just has to shut down for good anyways to layoff.

My dudes can sit there in front of 2000 degree ovens scraping jams for $26 an hour. Or they can get laid off and make the same amount (maybe more since ui isn't taxable the same way wages are) without sweating their nuts off. And, trust me. We have enough guys that fake injuries for S & A during the summer alrdy cuz it's really fucking hot with all our gear on and the ovens.

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how about - and bear with me this is crazy - instead of making a 500 page bill they just do a 10 page one cutting checks that won't be taxable in 2020's taxes, raise the amount, make it re-occurring, and release.

it's an emergency fund to get back to later, not a fucking budget. -_-

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I actually do think it's worth being concerned about incentivizing being laid off - why go to work (and risk being infected!) if you can get paid to not be at work.

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Like I said above, I already see people saying things like this... And that's just people who A. Have seen the bill and B. Comprehend the bill.

Wait til everyone catches on.

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Oh weird, you mean we should have been doing a UBI instead to encourage people who want to work to make more money?

To be clear, logically, those three Republicans are correct.

Its more clear than ever that the amount of money was specifically designed to make a UBI unfeasible.

Its not enough to help those who need it, and its not enough for a stimulus in a downturn this strong, with most of the places people could spend it closed.

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Just propose a no-frills temporary UBI you Democratic fucking cowards.

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Corrik7 posted...

It doesn't say for employers to lay them off. It says for employees to want to be laid off.

For example, let's say my mill has 25 people a crew per shift. They realize they can make the absolute same amount of money for 4 months to be laid off. So, they simply just call off over and over and over until they are let go because they "fear going outside due to the Coronavirus". They will get let go and be eligible for unemployment. (Trust me calling off terminations always get unemployment here).

In the mean time, the plant can't run with the reduced workforce / overtime is too insurmountable. Thus, the plant just has to shut down for good anyways to layoff.

My dudes can sit there in front of 2000 degree ovens scraping jams for $26 an hour. Or they can get laid off and make the same amount (maybe more since ui isn't taxable the same way wages are) without sweating their nuts off. And, trust me. We have enough guys that fake injuries for S & A during the summer alrdy cuz it's really fucking hot with all our gear on and the ovens.

Are they that confident they will be able to quickly find work again when their supercharged unemployment runs out?

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CoolCly posted...

I actually do think it's worth being concerned about incentivizing being laid off - why go to work (and risk being infected!) if you can get paid to not be at work.

Because it's a one-time payment and you will presumably need additional income afterwards. The minimum wage jobs making less than the stipend they're supposedly so concerned about were probably working multiple jobs normally and suffered a big loss in hours due to the crisis.

Even if it was reoccurring, I don't see the supply of essential jobs being higher than the demand for work, even if less people need to work.

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red sox 777 posted...

Are they that confident they will be able to quickly find work again when their supercharged unemployment runs out?

Do you think people care right now during a health crisis? Do you think the average person thinks ahead? And what about the people who all lost their job cuz the idiots who don't think ahead do this?

Hell, many probably think if it doesn't come around and boomerang back, the government will have to extend it. I know people who were quite glad to use the like 40 months of UE that was extended them during the last recession to the max.

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The middle class forever has lamented how it's bullshit that they have to kill themselves working for the dregs of society to get everything handed to them free.

You just gave them a "fuck you, see how you like it when we do it" button to hit. Which will completely destroy the American economy completely for good.

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Corrik7 posted...

Do you think people care right now during a health crisis? Do you think the average person thinks ahead? And what about the people who all lost their job cuz the idiots who don't think ahead do this?

Hell, many probably think if it doesn't come around and boomerang back, the government will have to extend it. I know people who were quite glad to use the like 40 months of UE that was extended them during the last recession to the max.

I dunno. If I were offered a choice between working the next 4 months or not working and still getting my regular paycheck for the next 4 months but without having a guaranteed job to return to I'm definitely still working. That would not even be close. Because I'm afraid of not being able to find a job in 4 months or only finding a position at a lower salary. That we're in a crisis situation in which the economy could be crashing only compounds that.

Like, what do I say at a job interview in 4 months? I quit my last job so I could take handouts from the government for 4 months? That's not going to get me hired.

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So I've never applied for unemployment before. Do I do it based on the state I live in or on the state where I work?

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Corrik7 posted...

The middle class forever has lamented how it's bullshit that they have to kill themselves working for the dregs of society to get everything handed to them free.

You just gave them a "fuck you, see how you like it when we do it" button to hit. Which will completely destroy the American economy completely for good.

sounds like the middle class has been getting screwed and that now, with the same opportunity offered to them, they're finally able to stand up for themselves.

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Apparently, the language of the bill doesn't even cap the $600 extra to 100% of your wages. So some people make more money straight up to be on unemployment here.

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ExThaNemesis posted...

So I've never applied for unemployment before. Do I do it based on the state I live in or on the state where I work?

Good question. I assume the state you live in.

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Corrik7 posted...

Apparently, the language of the bill doesn't even cap the $600 extra to 100% of your wages. So some people make more money straight up to be on unemployment here.

Yes, that's what the Republican senators are complaining about. If people are actually getting a raise from quitting, I appreciate the concern.

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