Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 286: God Save the Hydroxychloroquine

(+) Yeah! (+)

red sox 777 posted...

I dunno. If I were offered a choice between working the next 4 months or not working and still getting my regular paycheck for the next 4 months but without having a guaranteed job to return to I'm definitely still working. That would not even be close. Because I'm afraid of not being able to find a job in 4 months or only finding a position at a lower salary. That we're in a crisis situation in which the economy could be crashing only compounds that.

Like, what do I say at a job interview in 4 months? I quit my last job so I could take handouts from the government for 4 months? That's not going to get me hired.

What if the choice is "should i keep trying to work my job that i'm probably getting laid off from eventually and might go under anyways vs just taking guaranteed money from the government" ? Your scenario doesn't necessarily reflect the choice people might be making. There's tons of uncertainty

Also you easily just tell future employees you were laid off due to the shut down - why would anybody ever question that

Also I'm not sure why Tony keeps saying stimulus. Nothing about this is a stimulus. There's barely an economy to stimulate. People aren't expected to be going out to stores to do shopping or ordering extreaneous expansions or whatever. payments are purely to keep the lights on for people at this point. It's an attempt at stasis, not an ignition.

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red sox 777 posted...

Yes, that's what the Republican senators are complaining about. If people are actually getting a raise from quitting, I appreciate the concern.

They should probably just cap it at 90% anyways or something.

Unemployment goes by your best quarter out of your past 5 or so, may vary on state My best quarter counts all my OT and everything. So if you slammed ot to get Max benefit and you get the federal lopped on top, you likely are above your normal wage anyways. If I make $20 an hour but was eligible for max unemployment on a really high OT quarter.

Say $581+$600 in PA. $1181 a week.

$2040 = $800 a week. (Which is heavier taxed with payroll taxes, state taxes, local taxes, etc).

Why would the $20/hr person wanna stay working again? Lol.

Then add in the tangibles. Don't have to leave the house to be exposed to virus. Don't have to put time into work / be worked. Don't have to pay to get to and from work or any work expenses.

It would be a no brainer there.

You go from $600 take home a week to about $1000 take home. Without working!

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know what's an easy solution to not worrying about this unemployment math game, which everyone may not even apply for anyway?

just.
raising.
the.
check.

less bullshit, less math, covers more people, and you can control the flow to just 3 months, check again in 2 if it needs extensions.
simple solution!

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Wanglicious posted...

know what's an easy solution to not worrying about this unemployment math game, which everyone may not even apply for anyway?

just.
raising.
the.
check.

less bullshit, less math, covers more people, and you can control the flow to just 3 months, check again in 2 if it needs extensions.
simple solution!

Well, the other end of the barrel is that the check is just trash. $1200 ain't pay for basically shit for a lot of people. Keeping your job is more important to most... Except you know... Those who... Can make the same for not working!

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Wanglicious posted...

know what's an easy solution to not worrying about this unemployment math game, which everyone may not even apply for anyway?

just.
raising.
the.
check.

less bullshit, less math, covers more people, and you can control the flow to just 3 months, check again in 2 if it needs extensions.
simple solution!

Exacty! And it doesnt disincentivize working because you get it regardless.

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If I feel like I may get laid off eventually I think I would work as long as I can so that my unemployment starts later and I get more money.

But yeah, capping it at actual wages is good. I think capping it at 100% is fine and protects people who barely make enough to make ends meet.

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CoolCly posted...

What if the choice is "should i keep trying to work my job that i'm probably getting laid off from eventually and might go under anyways vs just taking guaranteed money from the government" ? Your scenario doesn't necessarily reflect the choice people might be making. There's tons of uncertainty

good thing we're not advocating for an either/or and instead trying to give everyone money!

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Corrik7 posted...

Well, the other end of the barrel is that the check is just trash. $1200 ain't pay for basically shit for a lot of people. Keeping your job is more important to most... Except you know... Those who... Can make the same for not working!

Yeah, I agree. Personally I think it should be 2,000/5,000. That's much more affordable so that if you don't have a job it's sustainable but you keep looking, and if you DO have a job, it's nice extra for continuing to work.

Edit: and, on later revisions, it would be fine if considerations to lower the amount occurred. So 2k for 3 months but if shit's under control, government reduces to half.

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Government only has so much money.

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Well the problem with UBI is that it is vastly vastly more expensive than only paying unemployed people. $1,200 is already something like $300 billion. It's like $3.6 trillion a year. I don't know how we pay for that.

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Corrik7 posted...

Government only has so much money.

i mean this is just literally false
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Corrik7 posted...

Government only has so much money.

they're talking about a $2 trillion package in this at the same time an economist in the administration saying they're going to add another $4 trillion to the federal reserve.

i think they can afford this.


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NFUN posted...

i mean this is just literally false

So you want to print money and cause inflation to give people money that's value would tank?

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Everything the government pays for has to eventually be paid with taxes.

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People lost faith in other currencies recently we can afford to print more dollars.

Leafeon13N posted...

People lost faith in other currencies recently we can afford to print more dollars.

also true. the dollar is holding up stupidly well.
fact is this isn't $2 trillion deal: it's $6 trillion.
only 2 are being debated in congress.
the rest is just money getting printed.

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Seems the republican hold up is that it might make ui greater than minimum wage. Which is silly. It should be greater than minimum wage if you earn more than that. I assume they mean minimum wage workers have no incentive to work if the UI is higher than minimum wage.

Which to be fair, $600 a week before the state portion is alrdy $15 an hour.

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$15 an hour is minimum wage tbqh

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Corrik7 posted...

So you want to print money and cause inflation to give people money that's value would tank?

The government is supposed to spend money during an economic downturn, because people cant.


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Corrik7 posted...

Seems the republican hold up is that it might make ui greater than minimum wage. Which is silly. It should be greater than minimum wage if you earn more than that. I assume they mean minimum wage workers have no incentive to work if the UI is higher than minimum wage.

Which to be fair, $600 a week before the state portion is alrdy $15 an hour.

There is incentive to not work because there is no work.

Republicans know they have to pass this.

Leafeon13N posted...

There is incentive to not work because there is no work.

Republicans know they have to pass this.

They probably are backed into a corner now, but if it destroys the entire economy if abused... Republicans have their complaint lodged and can point straight to pelosi's bill that they forced it into it.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

The government is supposed to spend money during an economic downturn, because people cant.

You can't spend more than you have. He is talking about printing money.

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Leafeon13N posted...

Republicans know they have to pass this.

you have more faith in the system than i do.


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Wanglicious posted...

sounds like the middle class has been getting screwed and that now, with the same opportunity offered to them, they're finally able to stand up for themselves.

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Looks like the stock market just shot down after the Minnesota lockdown announcement. Shoulda held off til the market closed on that one lol.

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Doesn't the fed print money independent of the senate? I was under the impression that congress only controls fiscal policy, not monetary policy

fed indeed prints money separately, they're doing $4 trillion. it's just being intended to launch at the same time because a $6 trillion package sounds better.


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There has to be details missing on this federal ui. Max UI in PA + Federal UI would be $29.53 an hour. And it is not taxed the payroll tax so 7.6% less tax there. Not the state or local tax. So 4% more there.

No union dues, etc.

I mean it is the equivalent of making like $34.38 an hour or something. (At least).

Has to be something missing here.

The median HOUSEHOLD wage is $25.48.

The average HOUSEHOLD wage is $34.13.

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Corrik7 posted...

There has to be details missing on this federal ui. Max UI in PA + Federal UI would be $29.53 an hour. And it is not taxed the payroll tax so 7.6% less tax there. Not the state or local tax. So 4% more there.

No union dues, etc.

I mean it is the equivalent of making like $34.38 an hour or something. (At least).

Has to be something missing here.

The median HOUSEHOLD wage is $25.48.

The average HOUSEHOLD wage is $34.13.

Keep in mind this was negotiated by people for whom that is chump change. Also, that max UI in Pennsylvania is high compared to other states. It's only $450/week in California which has a higher cost of living. I think Lindsey Graham was saying 350ish in South Carolina.

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red sox 777 posted...

Keep in mind this was negotiated by people for whom that is chump change. Also, that max UI in Pennsylvania is high compared to other states. It's only $450/week in California which has a higher cost of living. I think Lindsey Graham was saying 350ish in South Carolina.

I think I have to be misinterpreting something here.

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The Fed doesnt print money. They essentially do short term fully collateralized loans. Its not the same as spending at all.

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You're misinterpreting that all of this would be fixed in an amendment that would make it do federal unemployment can stack but won't exceed 600.

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I am not misinterpreting it okay. The Republicans want it fixed that the federal addition is UP TO $600 extra with it just matching your prior wage.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-03-25/some-in-gop-revolt-over-stimulus-unemployment-benefit

The senator argument is the same as mine.

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It's your state's amount plus $600.

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Also, it is time specific. So, if you get laid off in say the middle of June, you only get the extra until the end of July. Not the full 4 months.

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Corrik7 posted...

Also, it is time specific. So, if you get laid off in say the middle of June, you only get the extra until the end of July. Not the full 4 months.

Oh that's really stupid. Yeah in that case people are definitely incentivized to get themselves laid off ASAP.

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red sox 777 posted...

Oh that's really stupid. Yeah in that case people are definitely incentivized to get themselves laid off ASAP.

*Shrug*

"Beyond that, both Dube and Stone expressed concern about the short duration of the program. The $600 bump expires as the end of July, and its far from clear that the crisis will be over then. Dube additionally notes that beyond the $600, theres little for people with too little earnings to normally qualify for unemployment insurance. He suggests that the bill should lower the minimum earnings requirement to allow poorer workers, or workers without much earnings history like people graduating from high school or college in 2020, to benefit."

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oh no, as written i agree with you.
i just expect it to turn into what i said by the time it's done.


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Wanglicious posted...

oh no, as written i agree with you.
i just expect it to turn into what i said by the time it's done.

I don't think they should cap it at $600. I think it should just be up to $600 to equal up to say 90% of your wages. If it is 100% then so be it, but anything above 100% is obviously ludicrous lol.

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https://i.imgur.com/jMJ9HFk.jpg

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The unemployment insurance is a hidden UBI that only laid off people can get. Idk how Republicans didn't see this before they agreed to it. I noticed it in Pelosi's proposal beforehand. You can't give a UBI to only those laid off. Or people will want to be.

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One of the top pro-Trump media voices from 2016

https://twitter.com/mitchellvii/status/1241839895921950720?s=21
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https://m.soundcloud.com/katie-halper/joe-bidens-accuser-finally-tells-her-full-story

Who were the people that said they would never vote for Biden if he was "claimed" to have committed an assault again?

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Jakyl25 posted...

One of the top pro-Trump media voices from 2016

https://twitter.com/mitchellvii/status/1241839895921950720?s=21

Yeah, the trigger is being old.

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Trump begins today's rally lying about using the DPA.

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Jakyl25 posted...

One of the top pro-Trump media voices from 2016

https://twitter.com/mitchellvii/status/1241839895921950720?s=21

Man needs to buy the dip.

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https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1242847777941585920?s=21

I guess this is it for awhile
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Trump calling out the media for what they are (hoping the economy tanks so Trump loses his election)! Bravo!

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Trump said the UI is to make their salary 100%. Mnuchin said it is $600 flat. Is staying that way. And, he doesn't think it will be an issue.

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red sox 777 posted...

Trump calling out the media for what they are (hoping the economy tanks so Trump loses his election)! Bravo!

Literally donated the max to his re-election campaign when he called for the American Resurrection. I never thought I'd say it, but I'm very thankful we have a populist in the office right now who gets it.

I'm hoping he has the feds arrest Garcetti, Cuomo, et al if they continue to hold their constituents hostage come mid-april.

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