Board 8 > Super Mario Sunshine or Super Mario Odyssey?

(+) Yeah! (+)

In my opinion, Super Mario Sunshine.

Odyssey by orders of magnitude

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I haven't even played Odyssey but Sunshine is legit trash.

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The Owner of FF9 posted...

I haven't even played Odyssey but Sunshine is legit trash.

You probably should avoid Mario games, then.

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Odyssey is legit my favourite 3D Mario game.

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HanOfTheNekos posted...

You probably should avoid Mario games, then.

Considering there are several Mario games better than Sunshine, that's a drastic conclusion.

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Sunshine best Mario game (well, not counting Mario RPG's anyway...) although Odyssey is also very good.
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Sunshine is a bad game.

Odyssey, while vastly overrated for my tastes, is not a bad game.

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Sunshine is definitely not a bad game but it's still basically the worst mario game.

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Odyssey had a pretty weak postgame but just going by the main game it's one of the best in the series

meanwhile "pretty weak" sums up a looooot of Sunshine, though it has high points that make it worth playing anyways

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Odyssey is extremely overrated but Sunshine is too technically flawed to be the better game objectively. (I liked it better, though.)

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pjbasis posted...

Sunshine is definitely not a bad game but it's still basically the worst mario game.

Yeah, it's not "bad" but it's certainly bottom tier for Mario. It's one of the rare Mario games I completed and have no desire to play again.

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I feel like I played and enjoyed Sunshine more at the time (and haven't played it since), but Odyssey felt like the better game, though my old jaded self might not have liked it nearly as much. Even still, I'd rank Odyssey higher than Sunshine, even subjectively (since art can't be ranked objectively no matter what anyone tells you).

Both are very fun games, and top tier titles of the 3D platformer genre.

Mario 64 is better than them both, though I'm sure most would agree with that statement.

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odyssey is a bit overrated

its still good though, and generally speaking better than sunshine

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These are the only two Mario games that I legit love. Sunshine is a little better bc the beach and resort setting is so damn relaxing. I wish they would remaster the game.

Best Mario environments for sure. Odyssey has some worlds that come close but I prefer how Isle Delfino is connected.

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I'm not a big fan of Odyssey, but it's definitely Odyssey.

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Galaxy 2 > these two > Galaxy > 64 > 3D World

Man, I don't know.

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Goty 2002 vs GotY 2018

Tough call

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Odyssey is more diverse with its game design ideas. Sunshine it too centered around the fludd and using it effectively to reach weird place. Sunshine was also focused on being a technical showcase with the camera that could go anywhere and all the realistic physics mechanics the game wanted to show. That wasn't very interesting game design wise. Meanwhile Odyssey is an encyclopedia of game design ideas, any sub level could be used to create an entire game. I prefer the Mario series taking that path instead of trying to be a technical showcase like Sunshine did.

Odyssey, but Sunshine is underrated

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TomNook posted...

I feel like I played and enjoyed Sunshine more at the time (and haven't played it since), but Odyssey felt like the better game, though my old jaded self might not have liked it nearly as much. Even still, I'd rank Odyssey higher than Sunshine, even subjectively (since art can't be ranked objectively no matter what anyone tells you).

Both are very fun games, and top tier titles of the 3D platformer genre.

Mario 64 is better than them both, though I'm sure most would agree with that statement.

Mario 64 is one of my favorite games, but I honestly don't think Sunshine is THAT much worse. Heck it even does quite a few things better than 64.

Maybe it doesn't help that I grew up on the GameCube though.

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TomNook posted...

I feel like I played and enjoyed Sunshine more at the time (and haven't played it since), but Odyssey felt like the better game, though my old jaded self might not have liked it nearly as much. Even still, I'd rank Odyssey higher than Sunshine, even subjectively (since art can't be ranked objectively no matter what anyone tells you).

Both are very fun games, and top tier titles of the 3D platformer genre.

Mario 64 is better than them both, though I'm sure most would agree with that statement.

never has a post so succinctly said everything i would have said, quite so correctly

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If this was American Idol, Sunshine would cause Randy to stammer and say yo dawg for 5 minutes, Paula to say how pretty it is, and Simon to make some crack about how its his drunk uncle singing in a hotel lobby.

Odyssey would make it to the final two with 64.


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Mario 64 is the most overrated Mario game (unless you count Yoshi's Island as a Mario game)

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Mario 64 is tough to rank, because it is one of the most revolutionary games to date and everyone loved it when it came out, but I just think 3D Mario got better as it went, so now it's incredibly hard for me to go back and get the same enjoyment from it.

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At least Leon's problems with the game sound reasonable. The 100-coin missions get really frustrating towards the end. Sunshine fixed that a little IMO.

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I've enjoyed every 3D Mario after Mario 64 more than Mario 64

but Mario 64 is still a 9.5/10 game

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64 > Odyssey > Sunshine > Galaxy 2 > Galaxy > 3D World

They're all great though

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Odyssey > Galaxy > 64 > Galaxy 2 > Sunshine
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LordoftheMorons posted...

Odyssey, but Sunshine is underrated

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That being said, most of the problems with Sunshine have nothing to do with the gameplay and the remaster could rocket (nozzle) it up the rankings
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Jakyl25 posted...

That being said, most of the problems with Sunshine have nothing to do with the gameplay and the remaster could rocket (nozzle) it up the rankings

Eh, there are definitely some quality of life annoyances that the remaster is unlikely to change.

Even having something like a blue coin tracker isn't going to make blue coins fun anyway. It'll just make them suck a little less.

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64 > Odyssey > Galaxy > Galaxy 2 > 3D World = Sunshine

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odyssey is the best mario but sunshine is still good

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odyssey is probably the best mario game but i'm noncommittal on this stuff (other option SM64, with SMG2 not far behind but a replay could maybe bring it closer)

largely forget my Sunshine playthrough since I was young and we only rented the game from Blockbuster.... I didn't hate it though so I'm looking forward to a port/remaster!

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Leonhart4 posted...

Considering there are several Mario games better than Sunshine, that's a drastic conclusion.

No? If he thinks Sunshine is trash, then his problems with the game are bigger than the differences between Sunshine and 64 or Galaxy.

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again that's a pretty drastic conclusion to draw from that

Sunshine has a lot of annoyances that are generally exclusive to it
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It's really not. If he thinks Sunshine is trash, then the good elements of it aren't good enough to bring it to a middling tier. Meaning the rest of 3D Marios are probably stuck at a 6/10 ceiling.


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again it would largely depend on why he thinks Sunshine is trash

Sunshine has reasons people wouldn't like it that don't apply to the others
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Mostly every element that is present in Sunshine is also in Odyssey.

Controls are way better than 64.

Is it the Piantas? Is that enough to make a game trash?

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HanOfTheNekos posted...

Mostly every element that is present in Sunshine is also in Odyssey.

I mean if you're being extremely reductive sure
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What things make Sunshine trash?

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Not really. It's pretty evident when you get to those parts in Odyssey that are clearly inspired by it.

Part of the genius of Sunshine is that it gives you an expanded pallet of tools that open up many options for dealing with problems, and the more you dig in to those, the more you realize that it's just an expansion on platforming. I suppose, if you want to be critical of Sunshine, there's less level variety in Sunshine than in the other 3D Marios, but the level design is usually better than most levels in 64, so once again, the differences between the games aren't really wide enough to call Sunshine trash and not have part of that being a dislike of 3D Mario games.

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I don't think Sunshine is trash! But there are definitely things I would say are potential problems and I could see why you wouldn't like them.

FLUDD is the big one, of course. Lots of people didn't like it and/or didn't like how the game used it. Some of the best parts of the game are the parts where you can't use FLUDD, fittingly enough (and the Galaxy games straight up ripped them off for Stars so it almost obsoletes the game...!).

It feels like they ran out of ideas for SHINES at around 80 but they wanted to keep the number the same as Mario 64, so you get a lot of things that feel exactly the same (including fighting the same two or three bosses over and over again), as well as all the Blue Coins

You kinda get railroaded into doing the SHINES in the order they're given, so you don't have a lot of freedom to sequence break

Not that there's a lot to explore and find anyway, which is a shame considering how unnecessarily massive the individual worlds are. It's also designed vertically so a simple misstep basically means several minutes of getting back to where you were.

Bowser in a Bathtub

a low key reason is how utterly embarrassing the cutscenes dialogue and story are even by Mario standards
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HanOfTheNekos posted...

Not really. It's pretty evident when you get to those parts in Odyssey that are clearly inspired by it.

I mean, yes, Odyssey does draw some inspiration from Sunshine. I never said they're dissimilar, but you're acting like it's impossible to dislike Sunshine and actually like other 3-D Mario games, which is pretty extreme.
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No, I said if you think Sunshine is trash, then your issues with the game include issues with 3D Mario games. It's obviously possible to prefer other Marios to it, but if you hate Sunshine, you probably don't like other 3D Marios that much. That, or your capability to evaluate is hampered by being easily hung up on details to the point where you can't see the forest for the trees.


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Sunshine has some excellent parts that I'd put up against the best in the series.

However, Odyssey is nothing but excellent parts.


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FLUDD > Cappy imo

Cappy is annoying.

It seems like I have issues with not using the original controllers for games of that era, but man, Sunshine felt like it doubled down on every bad part of 64. It also actually forces you to do the first 7 stars of every world to beat the game. And some of those are not great.

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I do want to say that I like Sunshine largely because of FLUDD, not in spite of it.

That's not to say the FLUDD-less parts aren't great, but I think the mechanic absolutely makes Sunshine a better game as a result of it's inclusion. It makes for a ton of unique movement options that are a lot of fun to do. (The biggest one is the sliding mechanic but the hover nozzle can be used in some pretty cool ways also, and having a failsafe for tough platforming segments is nice.)

Blue coins I don't really like but it's not necessarily the presence of the blue coins themself, which I think is pretty well integrated with the game. I don't like that every time you get one a dialogue box has to pop up though.
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