Current Events > Where do you stand on the issue of trans bathroom rights?

(+) Yeah! (+)

What do you think?

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in a stall, hopefully with a locking door.

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Do you often peep on the other people in the bathroom to ensure they have the correct genitals?

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Individual businesses should be free to decide who uses which bathrooms in their establishments.

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Let people use the bathroom in peace.

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NinjaBreakfast posted...

not even trying to hide the transphobia itt

I think you misread the options. It's saying the transphobic people are the ones who put feelings over fact and are irrational to complain about trans people minding their own business

lol safety

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Secretly posted...

I think you misread the options. It's saying the transphobic people are the ones who put fact over feelings and are irrational to complain about trans people minding their own business

lol right you are. tbf, it's rare i see 'feelings' and 'safety' deployed this way as opposed to the other way.

my bad tc

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I'm sort of confused about the "feelings" and "safety" parts of the poll.


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Two rooms.

Penis people room.

Vagina people room.
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https://youtu.be/UKl9fK-HUpw

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Just realized I screwed up the order in my post after reading your quote, lol.

Transphobics are coming from a place of emotion. Nothing exists to support their bullshit that trans people have higher rates of sexual assaulting people in bathrooms or other such alt right bullshit

Houston posted...

I'm sort of confused about the "feelings" and "safety" parts of the poll.

It's quite simple. Irrational transphobes have "feelings" against trans people, none of which are backed up by facts that prejudice their views on the rights

Trans people have the right to feel safe in their bathroom. If a MtF looks completely feminine, she shouldn't be made to use the men's room simply because she hasn't had the surgery yet. There's safety.

The easiest solution is to just have a third bathroom that's unisex and only accommodates one person.

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Here is the thing:

segregating restrooms was a thing before the concept of trans people was known.

basically the mens restroom meant penis restroom and womens restroom meant vulva restroom.

in this brave new word of ours now gender and genitals seem to be disassociated. But that doesnt change the purpose for segregating restrooms: one is for penii, one is for vulvas.

DifferentialEquation posted...

Individual businesses should be free to decide who uses which bathrooms in their establishments.

Please stop trolling my topic antifar.

Houston posted...

I'm sort of confused about the "feelings" and "safety" parts of the poll.

The likelihood of a trans individual being physically attacked while using the bathroom of their preferred gender is exponentially higher than the likelihood of an individual claiming to be trans physically harming someone in the bathroom of their preferred gender. My usage of the word "safety" is objectively, measurably, correct.

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Secretly posted...

It's quite simple. Irrational transphobes have "feelings" against trans people, none of which are backed up by facts that prejudice their views on the rights

Trans people have the right to feel safe in their bathroom. If a MtF looks completely feminine, she shouldn't be made to use the men's room simply because she hasn't had the surgery yet. There's safety.

safety how? Gay people still use the restroom corresponding to their genitals and no one is more or less safe for it. He likes the dong and he is going to the restroom for dongs... and nothing happens

DifferentialEquation posted...

Individual businesses should be free to decide who uses which bathrooms in their establishments.

I'm not horribly against this in most situations.

But in those where there is a high volume of people and there's an actual risk to these people that going into the bathroom they have to use will get them fucked up, then no.

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DespondentDeity posted...

The easiest solution is to just have a third bathroom that's unisex and only accommodates one person.

No. Businesses should not be required to spend extra money just for that.

The easiest solution is for people to mind their own fucking business and let others mind theirs. Trans people aren't hurting anyone despite which bathroom they use. A lot of the civilized world has co-ed bathrooms and assaults and rapes aren't any more common.

.

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Secretly posted...

No. Businesses should not be required to spend extra money just for that.

The easiest solution is for people to mind their own fucking business and let others mind theirs. Trans people aren't hurting anyone despite which bathroom they use. A lot of the civilized world has co-ed bathrooms and assaults and rapes aren't any more common.

what if we just have bathrooms then? No distinction.

or if people are worried about tHe kIdS you can have an adults and kids restroom.

Being "assigned" at birth? Wtf.

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It's kind of a weird situation because on one side you have the rational actual transpeople who just want to live how they want to live without causing a ruckus. On the other side, you have the transtrender "I'm going to call myself a transwoman but still carry a full ass beard and do nothing major to my looks" and the "free spirit swap gender every other step" kind of people.

We cannot generate a law based on looks because that is subjective. We cannot craft a law solely on self-identification because we have these various outliers. Carding people for their official gender identity would be ridiculous.

From a moral standpoint, if they can go in and out without causing anyone to turn their head, then whatever. I'm less certain on those that don't obviously pass, but I don't really have a solution either. Making more singular gender neutral bathrooms and family bathrooms would be the best solution, but that's a longterm thing that doesn't help right now.

KillerKhan420 posted...

Being "assigned" at birth? Wtf.

Yes, this is a concept, and relies on the idea that sex and gender are separate things. It's considered more polite than saying "biological male/female", which has the implication that their gender isn't "real". (I see AFAB and AMAB used these days.)

Makes sense to me, at least. But I try to find ways to be considerate.

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nemu posted...

On the other side, you have the transtrender "I'm going to call myself a transwoman but still carry a full ass beard and do nothing major to my looks" and the "free spirit swap gender every other step" kind of people.

You're showing transphobia. I'm not going to call you a bad person or condemn you for it, but I encourage you to reflect on this and why it comes off as transphobic, it might lead to personal growth.

nemu posted...

From a moral standpoint, if they can go in and out without causing anyone to turn their head, then whatever. I'm less certain on those that don't obviously pass, but I don't really have a solution either.

The solution is the option that is objectively, and measurably safer.

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DarkChozoGhost posted...

You're showing transphobia. I'm not going to call you a bad person or condemn you for it, but I encourage you to reflect on this and why it comes off as transphobic, it might lead to personal growth.

The solution is the option that is objectively, and measurably safer.

'm not talking about those who simply will never pass as their identified gender. That's just an unfortunate reality for them. If they're claiming to be a woman while eschewing every single characteristic that we use to identify what is a woman, then they're something completely outside of the trans dynamic that I will never take seriously.

I don't care where you shit as long as you close the door and stfu in public while doing it.

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The_Bitcoin posted...

Here is the thing:

segregating restrooms was a thing before the concept of trans people was known.

basically the mens restroom meant penis restroom and womens restroom meant vulva restroom.

in this brave new word of ours now gender and genitals seem to be disassociated. But that doesnt change the purpose for segregating restrooms: one is for penii, one is for vulvas.

It's kinda not

I thinkJohn Oliver had a bit on this about how the symbol for the toilets is a stickman in a skirt and a stickman in pants.

Not a giant dick and a vagina.

These guys in a womens toilet is going to upset people:

https://i.imgur.com/MWslGLl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/NMq1N8B.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/I5AsnyV.jpg

These girls going to a men's toilet is going to put THEM in danger

https://i.imgur.com/ZS4X09R.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/RJjBMu4.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/hvilGYt.png

"It's about gentials" doesn't make sense.

Especially when all female toilets are cubicles and any FTM transgenders are going to use the cubicle of the mens toilet.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

It's kinda not

I thinkJohn Oliver had a bit on this about how the symbol for the toilets is a stickman in a skirt and a stickman in pants.

Not a giant dick and a vagina.

These guys in a womens toilet is going to upset people:

https://i.imgur.com/MWslGLl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/NMq1N8B.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/I5AsnyV.jpg

These girls going to a men's toilet is going to put THEM in danger

https://i.imgur.com/ZS4X09R.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/RJjBMu4.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/hvilGYt.png

"It's about gentials" doesn't make sense.

Especially when all female toilets are cubicles and any FTM transgenders are going to use the cubicle of the mens toilet.

thats immature. Am I in danger if a 65 buff gay guy goes to the mens restroom? Is a woman in danger if a 511 buff lesbian goes to the womens restroom? No.

The_Bitcoin posted...

thats immature. Am I in danger if a 65 buff gay guy goes to the mens restroom? Is a woman in danger if a 511 buff lesbian goes to the womens restroom? No.

No

But a woman is increased danger if she goes to the men's restroom

And women are going to be upset if men go into the women's restroom

You also utterly dodged the point how judging by gentials is so foolhardy and will just upset people.
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I like to think I sit for trans bathroom rights.

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UnfairRepresent posted...

No

But a woman is increased danger if she goes to the men's restroom

And women are going to be upset if men go into the women's restroom

You also utterly dodged the point how judging by gentials is so foolhardy and will just upset people.

so, assuming the gay 66 guy will want to rape a guy in the restroom is offensive and wrong (which I agree, its offensive and wrong) but assuming that a straight average man would rape another person with a penis but that looks like he wouldnt have a penis is perfectly ok?

Instead of two large semi-open rooms, just have a larger amount of smaller 1-person rooms.

The_Bitcoin posted...

so, assuming the gay 66 guy will want to rape a guy in the restroom is offensive and wrong (which I agree, its offensive and wrong) but assuming that a straight average man would rape another person with a penis but that looks like he wouldnt have a penis is perfectly ok?

Hey look once again you dodged your original point that seperating by gentials is a bad way to go.

Anyway you're strawmanning. No one is saying "If a woman goes into the men's toilets they will be raped immiedately by the first guy who sees them." they're saying they will be in increased danger.

And they would. The rates of murder, assault and rape of mtf transgenders is very high. This will increase more so if they go into men's toilets. Especially in bars and clubs.

And even if it somehow magically didn't, it would still make no sense to make themselves and men uncomfortable by forcing people who look like this:

https://imgur.com/hvilGYt

To use the mens toilet...
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make bathrooms more private (ie - a room with a toilet and sink) maybe have more in larger stores/restaurants
parents keep a close eye on their kids because pedo creeps are gonna be pedo creeps regardless of if they're trans, cis or whatever.
if you feel unsafe in a gym locker room, then don't use it.

all in all, be mindful of yourself and others and don't be a douche. simple. decency doesn't have to reflect issues surrounded rights. if someone's a shit person, that's who they are, but if they're not actually harming you then fucking ignore them, ok?

people ignore so many things in their lives but latch on to negative thought patterns, i wonder why that is? im just thinking out loud with this.

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I say one bathroom for everyone, what's the point of having two bathrooms? And fuck urinals, everyone gets a stall and you never have to deal with a dude next to you with a tiny piece of lint in the end of his urethra spraying piss in multiple directions...

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Let's say you have a woman-at-birth trans person who transitioned into a man. Let's say they really do look like a man. How do supporters of "Bathroom bills" think that would play out? Do you think nobody would stop somebody who clearly looks like a man going into a women's restroom?

The practical answer, of course, is that the trans male would just go into the men's bathroom since they're less at risk, but a bathroom bill means

Option 1: Follow the law, risk being assaulted or humiliated because you now have to explain in public that you were a woman at birth.

Option 2: Break the law, likely be okay, but if you're caught somehow you now are legally responsible.

The bills are designed to get trans people hurt or killed. That's the only reason they exist.

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Youre naive if you think no perverts would take the opportunity to creep on women.
Also, it makes sense for there to be seperate toilets with urinals in them as they are so much faster.

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UnfairRepresent posted...

Hey look once again you dodged your original point that seperating by gentials is a bad way to go.

Anyway you're strawmanning. No one is saying "If a woman goes into the men's toilets they will be raped immiedately by the first guy who sees them." they're saying they will be in increased danger.

And they would. The rates of murder, assault and rape of mtf transgenders is very high. This will increase more so if they go into men's toilets. Especially in bars and clubs.

And even if it somehow magically didn't, it would still make no sense to make themselves and men uncomfortable by forcing people who look like this:

https://imgur.com/hvilGYt

To use the mens toilet...

exactly why would they be more unsafe? Explain

Zero_Destroyer posted...

Let's say you have a woman-at-birth trans person who transitioned into a man. Let's say they really do look like a man. How do supporters of "Bathroom bills" think that would play out? Do you think nobody would stop somebody who clearly looks like a man going into a women's restroom?

The practical answer, of course, is that the trans male would just go into the men's bathroom since they're less at risk, but a bathroom bill means

Option 1: Follow the law, risk being assaulted or humiliated because you now have to explain in public that you were a woman at birth.

Option 2: Break the law, likely be okay, but if you're caught somehow you now are legally responsible.

The bills are designed to get trans people hurt or killed. That's the only reason they exist.

Indeed this actually happened.

A self-inserted toilet inspector tried to throw a transgender out of the womens toilets.

And it turned out to just be a mannish woman.

I think it was a Wal-Mart or something.
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sevihaimerej posted...

I say one bathroom for everyone, what's the point of having two bathrooms? And fuck urinals, everyone gets a stall and you never have to deal with a dude next to you with a tiny piece of lint in the end of his urethra spraying piss in multiple directions...

Wouldn't this lead to more gloryholes?

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Rika_Furude posted...

Youre naive if you think no perverts would take the opportunity to creep on women.
Also, it makes sense for there to be seperate toilets with urinals in them as they are so much faster.

There is literally nothing preventing perverts taking an opportunity as-is. A person can simply claim they are a FtM transgender male and walk in if these bathroom bills are law.

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sevihaimerej posted...

? And fuck urinals

urinals use less water

maybe a sit down bathroom and a stand up bathroom? not to be confused with stand up comedy.

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Rika_Furude posted...

Youre naive if you think no perverts would take the opportunity to creep on women.
Also, it makes sense for there to be seperate toilets with urinals in them as they are so much faster.

A pervert isn't going to go "Ah man, a women's toilet. I'm not allowed in there! Darn."

They're going to perv anyway.

In fact almost every example of a "Transgender" perving on women has been a conservative trying to "prove a point" about the danger.

Not to mention, womens toilets are cubicles. So there's not much they can do in there.
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Don't care, not my fight

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UnfairRepresent posted...

A pervert isn't going to go "Ah man, a women's toilet. I'm not allowed in there! Darn."

They're going to perv anyway.

In fact almost every example of a "Transgender" perving on women has been a conservative trying to "prove a point" about the danger.

Not to mention, womens toilets are cubicles. So there's not much they can do in there.

Pretty sure we'd definitely see some increase in cases. Giving people free opportunity will lead to more bold and brash people. The question is if it would happen at enough of a noticeable rate to actually matter.

Like, I don't know how else to say it: Lawmakers and individuals are trying to get trans people killed. Trans people suffer inordinate amounts of abuse as is, and now they're creating catch-22s in laws for any person that passes as the other gender under the guise of "muh perverts!" even though the law does nothing to stop people from claiming they're passing trans people.

The only argument against that is to be in-favor of genital police, something that concedes the point that any passing transgender person would need to be publicly humiliated, risk injury, or break the law by doing the otherwise reasonable act of attempting to use the bathroom that matches how they look.

It's absolutely fucking disgusting that people support these bills when they should know they don't solve anything, invent new issues, and introduce government red tape that makes life harder for a subset of people. It is literally feels before reals because some people are so utterly hateful that they'd eschew their "small gubmint" principles if it meant more trans people got hurt.

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