Board 8 > NFUN Plays Zero No Kiseki Again

(+) Yeah! (+)

we're back

wtf the last topic was bumped a week ago. board is popping, I guess. can't trust purge rates with ertyu around

hmm


hmmmmmmmm


hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


HMMMMMM


and i'm gonna hmmm real hard if I can't do this ingredient hunt quest because I'm missing a fish fillet because they won't let me go back to the area that has fish

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SHE'S HERE

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Teehee

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I knew Geofront was fine including memes for these messages, but I still didn't expect them to be so topical!


A more ambitious crossover than Infinity War


I swear to god they got voice actors to make the wolf noises instead of using actual sounds effects. it's so fucking goofy... and not in a good way

Got the mafiosos. Was expecting them to escape somehow, so I'm glad they actually got arrested even if it won't stick

Puppy!

chapter 1 beated

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most valuable puppy

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I guess in Zemuria, having a single blonde highlight in dark hair is the mark of villainy. Monster chests (and chests in general) are clearly just a gameplay element of the series, but I wouldn't be surprised if what looks like a monster chest in the boss's room is actually one in-story. I'd actually respect the writers if they somehow made Heiyue's assassin Joshua working as a double-agent

:thonk:



ROLF!

Those defense force guys were jobbers. Giving them Seeker didn't make them much better. It was probably a mistake to put this fight just after Randolph gets a large 100% Blind skill

ok time for story

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Oh I missed this tag.

SC > Ao > 3rd > CS3 > Zero > FC >>> CS1 > CS2
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Those skunks were fucking annoying

Why does Falcom give all of their male protagonists unintentional harems?

Some of Geofront's localization choices are interesting. I get making "Rishia" Rixia, I guess, but why did they make the Heiyue's guy's name "silver" in Chinese instead of Japanese? It's clearly originally "Gin". I haven't really met them yet so I can't tell if they're going for Triad or Yakuza, but if it's Triad, why did Falcom make it a Japanese word in the first place? Did they worry that their very subtle reference would've gone unnoticed had they used "Yin" instead?

Why do I keep asking inconsequential questions?

I have caught half of the fish. Fear me, mortals, for your puny "Aidios" cannot save you now. Fear me, for I am now a 2nd Class Fisher.

Thank God I don't need to retalk to everybody in the villages. The city is large enough already

They're describing Yin as a legendary assassin who is a phantom. Clearly, he is of Ouroboros, and clearly, he is specifically Bleublanc.

"This case is beyond our capabilities. We should report to HQ and let them handle it" - Elie
"Lloyd, how could you say to let the First Division handle this because this case is out of our capabilities!?! We can overcome any barrier!" - also Elie

oh everybody else called her out on that too

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XSEED already officially localized it as "Yin" when they mention the name in the Trails of Cold Steel 2 Divertissement so they might have just been following that? Same with Rixia actually for that matter.

It's also what the earlier bad fan translation of Zero used which might pre-date Cold Steel II as well. Not clear on the timeline there.

Also I do feel like Heiyue along with most of the Calvard culture in general that we've seen is inspired by China.
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Last night I dreamt about fishing. I am finally Becoming. I will soon reach my final form.

Man, with Elie's backstory and the focus on the impotence on the government, this game is getting way too topical. Can't wait until we see the First Division fucking murder some kid

Man, I really prefer Estelle's vaguely oblivious, bubbly way of helping people with problems than Rean and Lloyd's almost Gary Stu "always know the right thing to say" nonsense. The team-building approach this and CS take are way too similar.

NFUN posted...

Why does Falcom give all of their male protagonists unintentional harems?

I wish I had an easy way to share this "LANDY!" voice clip. And "Elie-san" = "The SSS wouldn't be the SSS without you". Not criticizing, I just think localization is interesting.

Speaking of which:


Yin's orbmail is a poor imitation of Cassius's "Defeat me. That is all"

Kudos to Falcom for not making the Testaments fight the four goons, and then the four goons + Abbas

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Tag.

Ao >> FC > 3rd = Zero > SC >>> CS1 > CS2

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This man is lucky he's not eating Estelle's staff right now

I am going to pretend that it was an INTENTIONAL ACT OF SUBTLETY to make the first name of a billionaire what I would assume to be the local equivalent of "representative"... oh fuck he's Yoshikage Kira. With a touch of Redd White and that guy from the Titanic episode of Doctor Who

I am way overleveled for this Geofront section. Some of the enemies are running away (granted, Intimidation may help). And the tortoises have a move that raises defense for one turn? That move is almost entirely pointless. And why do maintenance tunnels constructed by and for the workers, like, 20 years ago have puzzles! Undertale made fun of this, but I hadn't seen such flagrant silliness until now. This is the first time in the chapter I actually had to fight, now that I think of it. I could've done everything up to this point in like an hour if I rushed it.

The hacker kid has a good taste in music, at least

Tomato enemies at least make sense. But a banana enemy!?

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These fuckers

Only one person knows the pain these motherfuckers put me through in 3rd. These bastards at the end of one of the paths in the chapter Road of Silver, Road of Gold. And now they're back to haunt me in Golden Sun, Silver Moon. History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme. At least I doubt they'll give me the same hell in this game, especially seeing the little baby Abyss Worms. That was a very special case.

I have ASCENDED the tower. Thankfully it was more straightforward than any of the Tetracyclic towers. Let's see if I'll actually get to fight something cool this early in the game... (spoilers, I won't)

WAIT! I can fight him? And he has Cassius's Qilingong buff and Loewe's Body Split craft? Wow, this would be a really cool and tough fight if he did more than 200 damage a hit (and was resistant to debuffs). Guess I probably should've taken the hint the game and used the deathproof accessory it just gave me

Hot predix: Yin is Lloyd's dead brother Guy, who, during his mission to Calvard*, appeared to have fallen but in reality constructed a persistent double to serve as his corpse. He had been scouted by Ouroboros and faked his death in fear of reprisal to his family after rejecting their offer. He took up this identity in order to make enough of a name for himself anonymously to be recruited again, this time joining in order to reveal the secrets of the Organization from within. He's making trouble with Crossbell both to display the mysterious free spirit Ouroboros is attracted to and to see his brother's growth in the only real way he still can.

...i realized i forgot to do the missing ring sidequest. guess it's time to climb back down the tower and run all the way back to crossbell to return this douchebag's ring and then ascend it and fight the boss all over again

yay

*I think he went to Calvard it's been a while since I've heard the backstory

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Aw yeah Yin. I really liked this fight scene.

One of my favorite Crossbell characters. He's just a great character from a writing standpoint but also I really like his fighting style, aesthetic, etc.
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Yeah, that fight against Yin was a highlight of the first game for me. He has a fun moveset and it's a relatively tough, but fair fight that tests your build and decision-making.

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when I refought him I just buffed the first term and smacked the shit out of him after. if I used Elie as support I probably could've killed him in about thirty seconds with S Breaks. it was a disappointingly easy fight

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The Sun Princess and Moon Princess are sisters, separated at birth! By the Law of Nested Fiction, this means that a main character has a close hidden bond to another character. My Yin Is Guy Theory gains strength!

And they went to the forest to "dance" together! COULD IT BE MORE OBVIOUS

I liked the low-budget White Madrigal play better for more than the obvious reasons, especially the super goofy Elementary School Band songs. Have to admit that the song playing in the last act was pretty hype though
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4L8pMtFUomU

The mayor's secretary? He was too obvious to even suspect. Falcom can't make Gilbert the best character in the first three games and then expect us to forget about him

Ernest's plan was legendary. Send a threat letter so that the police will think somebody else is being targetted... so you can kill somebody else at the same location that they're still surveying in general. When they were talking to Yin at the tower, I thought at first that the whole play was a distraction so they could target somebody else while the 1st Division was focused elsewhere. But like, why raise security in the first place*? Ernest's ambition required his name to be clear--he wasn't trying to murder somebody and flee to another country--so what even was his plan after he did it? Killing the mayor and knocking out the guard, then disappearing from the scene of the crime when it was known he was there seems like a really poor play. Everything about it seems too contrived, in a way not present in any of the other crimes in the series. The Mafia's plan from the last chapter was even sensible divorced from expected JRPG shenanigans! I get that they're trying to go for something similar to FC's brainwashing plot, but even then the baddies acted intelligently. Ernest, while clearly hysteric at the end, was able to plan fine. His plans were just terrible. There are definitely a million better ways to orchestrate an "accident" to get rid of the mayor, and still plenty of others to implicate Yin without making himself such an obvious target

*he may not have expected the police to take the threat seriously. this doesn't help his plan much

Onto more pressing matters: isn't it weird how Yin's voice is muffled when his mouth isn't covered at all?

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RIXlA IS LLOYD'S BROTHER! WHAT!?

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NFUN posted...

RIXlA IS LLOYD'S BROTHER! WHAT!?

that must have been one heck of a mission he went on

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the plot twist no one could have seen coming.
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The other reveals and such so far weren't that surprising. Rixia being Yin caught me completely off guard, and makes enough sense for me not to be angry about it. Puts a new light on Yin being annoyed and Rixia being upset about it

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Did you stop Cold Steel II before the Divertissement, out of curiosity? They actually talk about this a bit in there, though you might not catch it/remember it if you don't already know the characters since they don't really highlight it or anything.
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pyresword posted...

Did you stop Cold Steel II before the Divertissement, out of curiosity?

I did

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tio fucking wrecked jona in puyo puyo get fucked scrub

This is a very Cold Steel song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4OCglD2ZM0

I can't believe I didn't notice earlier

Motoro the homie! And Queen Parin and King Puku. Poker in this is way too forgiving. So much easier than blackjack. Like, look at this. I didn't change any cards and this happened. What


AND THEN THE PILE HAD A,A,Q AND SO DID I. HOW

Finally. Tio is now kitted out... GET IT? Sadly no full-set bonus in this game


The boys finally make their appearance. I love how much they stand out with their old Sora sprites

I was running through the highways looking for photogenic scenery, avoiding the buses. While shooting the cowering, retreating enemies with a gun, as one does, I smacked one twice and it fucking exploded into gems. Could I have been taking advantage of this the whole time?? Half the enemies in the tower fled from me. It would've been so much easier to run through if I knew that!.. oh, I guess it only works on enemies that are so weak you can stun them from the front. Ah well

So I decided to be BOLD and challenge a Strong lv 25 monster chest. I was level 23, that's close enough, right? Fight took a solid half an hour of nonsense Chrono Drive, impede, heal, Magna Blaze, A-Reflex. The reward was a quartz that doubles the strength of healing items, which would be horrible but I suppose makes sense for the weird percentage-based food items. The real kicker was that the apes gave me 3 EXP each, even though I was two levels below them AND had a 4x EXP multiplier from all of the fucking cancels, 7-rushes and Bag of Tricks I got. They were gonna give me ONE without it. They don't even drop any items grumble

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Finally, Lloyd, the true hero of Liberl, appears.

I was just thinking that, aside from her restraining herself around Harold, we hadn't seen any classic Estelle moments in this game yet

It seems now is finally the time.

fliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiip

aw, I was hoping I'd be able to control Estelle and Joshua in a "battle"... wiping the floor with the gang leaders in ten seconds. I feel like Joshua is still a little OP for a race

I can't believe Japan ruined the word "flag" forever

Schmood


Is it time?

It's not time.

I'm apparently pretty bad at finding the secrets in the city. I think all of the chests scattered around are obtainable via the Geofront, not through hidden paths. And the chest near Ilya's apartment changes quotes depending on when you open it!

Man, Kilika's got a nice new outfit.

The Geofront builders were really inspired while making the early layers. Tio mentioned that as it was built, the Diet members interfered with its design. I guess they meddled to make it usable.

A Crank Dat chest quote? Hell yea

oh it was Tio Guy was escorting. I probably should've been able to guess that.

but also, like... you'd think she'd've told Lloyd about that at some point

oh Kitty is Renne. I probably also could've guessed that, but who cares that i didnt

speaking of little cat girls, Fie, the third (!) in the series, apparently was a member of the same Jaeger corp Rossi was in. I think. Pretty sure she was Zephyr

A shopkeeper mentioned Bleublanc... just as the plot about the illicit art auction is heating up. Will he make an appearance to liberate some of the pieces?

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Yeah, Fie was in Zephyr.

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NFUN posted...

oh it was Tio Guy was escorting. I probably should've been able to guess that.

but also, like... you'd think she'd've told Lloyd about that at some point

I feel like it makes sense that she hasn't done it yet, but I also can't remember how much the context behind those events the player is supposed to have at this point. I don't think it's really something she'd want to talk about though, and she's already not very talkative in the first place.

NFUN posted...

speaking of little cat girls, Fie, the third (!) in the series, apparently was a member of the same Jaeger corp Rossi was in. I think. Pretty sure she was Zephyr

Yes this is correct.
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Anniversary Day 4 "Work Cut Out For Us" Counter: 3

"Aidios, why is this happening to me?"
because you ran into a monster-infested hellhole that's why dipshit. I'm starting to think that the Bracers are the worst policing organization we've seen. Their raison d'etre is to protect the citizenry at all costs... but they're clearly too stupid to deserve protection

And you can't give me a fight with enemies that have almost no debuff resistance and then act like it was difficult afterwards! Especially when you have large 100% blinding arts/crafts, good access to freeze/sleep, AT Delay, etc.

All of the cops are talking about how much they want juice. This is really a missed opportunity for us to date an officer that we choose by gifting them with juice

Ahahaha... I am now a Master Fisher. The foundations of the world will tremble at my splendor

AHAHAHAHAHA! Aidios has been killed, destroyed, shattered! Nothing of her remains but fragments of her Glory... yet some other divinity, sinister and subtle, must remain, for I have managed to catch a shimmering piece of her power. I need not concern myself with Sept-Terrions. I am above such trifles. A Divine Angler has gifts far beyond even the Grandmaster's understanding, and ambitions that would make him weep.

Harold's son is missing? Either he wandered off like little kids do... or Renne nabbed him out of anger or jealousy!!!

whoa Renne's portrait disappeared when she said "Renne has never known this child"

my A button half-stopped working? It can't replay voices in the log or save, but it can get to the save menu. Well, that's what mouses and autosaves are for

lmao. I let monsters in a random battle attack Renne because I wanted to see if her faint cry was the same as it was in FC... and she took 0 damage



holy shit renne to the rescue. I wasn't sure how she was gonna end up reacting to Colin. Her running out there to protect her brother is really satisfying

I was gonna comment on how this wolf fight seems actually difficult, right before they all fell asleep, were 50% slowed and one by one become petrified. Making enemies tanky isn't that great when you can completely disable them. In Sora, important story battles were often pretty difficult. In this, some of the exterminations are kind of tough, but all of the story fights are a complete joke.

WHOA the voice change


Estelle (and me) like
Josh like arti

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NFUN posted...

lmao. I let monsters in a random battle attack Renne because I wanted to see if her faint cry was the same as it was in FC... and she took 0 damage

Renne imported her save from 3rd to keep her stats.

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I hope Joshua didn't suffer a BSOD when he heard this kid's name


An entire statue was stolen? I. Wonder. Who. Could. Have. Done. This.

Hey, it's Lonnie and the Bobcat Boys

Elie at 65% dodge. With Evade 3 and another Evergreen, that'd be 75%. Not quite as broken as my Fie was, but still pretty nice

On to Mishelam, finally. On to ending Chapter 3, finally.

Is that Lechter?? They talked a lot about how Erebonian and Calvardian agents had pretty much free reign in Crossbell, and we saw Kilika this chapter, so it makes sense he'd show up

yep it's him. Red hair (though his model's is pink for some reason) + "Carefree" is the most succinct way to describe him. If he's going to the auction then..

yeah hi kilika

I like Olivier's music better

motherfucker keeps stealing my lines


A girl just spoke to me in a blue voice. I guess the girl who's on half of the game's art is related to one of the items at the auction, some artifact. They're making a big deal about the doll. Maybe that's the source of the voice, somehow?

Welp, yep. Literally a living doll (maybe). Less weird than them auctioning Pater-Mater, which I very briefly suspected when they first mentioned dolls. The way she speaks is pretty reminiscent of Mayuri. I keep expecting to hear a Tuturu~~

Hey, Wazy is formally in my party. Finally. The game has been real stingy about additional party members. KeA really bounces around during battles, doesn't she

BAH GAWD KING they're pulling out all of the CLASSICS with the cat false alarm trick again!

Thanks for the assist Kilika

War God? I feel like he was brought up in CS a bunch. Enemy of Zephyr, I guess. Think he died which destabilized things?

Woof, that was a long chapter. What's interesting is that we're clearly at a turning point in the game where the overall plot becomes apparent, and the chapter itself fit that pattern too. It was a microcosm of how Kiseki games develop, with each day like a chapter.

I played way too long today

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post size limit garbage:

I hate to say it, but I laughed


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Good one phantom thief B

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NFUN posted...

War God? I feel like he was brought up in CS a bunch. Enemy of Zephyr, I guess. Think he died which destabilized things?

What Fie tells you in CS1/2: He was the leader of Red Constellation which along with Zephyr were the top two jaeger corps in Western Zemuria (if not all of it, idk) and yeah they were rivals/enemies because of it. He and the Jaeger King (Zephyr's head and Fie's adoptive dad) eventually had a duel that supposedly lasted like three straight days and both ended up dying.

zeit literally the mvp of another chapter. he's carrying the sss tbqh

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dude KeA has a penguin book I'm beyond jealous

They have book #11 in the store? I only have up to 10, did I miss one?.. no, apparently the only way to get this one is to buy it. Huh

I just noticed Rixia's last name is Mao. There's no way she's related to Mrs. Mao... right?

xp would argue there's a reason for this:


I think Falcom has trouble with ages. Sunita, the girl with the kitten, is said to be the same age as Colin, but she seems to be a couple of years older than him, even accounting for normal differences in maturity. And KeA is supposed to be nine, but she seems more like she's a seven year old to me, albeit a precocious one. Maybe the amnesia is throwing off my guess

The casino is talking about some bigshot gambler, and he has a room in the hotel checked out. Guess we're gonna meet him. In my heart of hearts I hope it's Phelio from Ruan, but I bet it'll either be Jack or somebody we haven't met. Did it bother anybody else about the employees at the casino complaining about losing to him? I can see why the card player would be upset, since they have some agency in poker, at least. How can the roulette girl be upset at herself? She does literally nothing but throw the ball in the machine! Unless she cheats, of course. It's real goofy of her to be proud of her claim that "A gamble is a matter of luck". Like, no shit. That's the definition!

I'm missing seven recipes, and I want to give this kid every peculiar dish for the quest. I was kind of ok with missing some in regards to the Jizo, since a lot of supreme dishes you can buy or find, but for peculiar I'm gonna need to cook it myself.

Some old guy told me you can hear a bell at the Moon Temple ruins during the full moon. That seems fami--HOLY SAINT, HOLY SPIRIT, TELL US THE PLACE WHERE YOU EMERGE HELP US UNDERSTAND WHAT TO BEAR

down six recipes

<3 Anton

five

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After a fight where my party takes a cumulative total of 148 HP damage: "*huff huff* I still have all of my limbs... I think"
After a fight where my party has 100 HP each and almost wipes six times:

Did they even playtest these fights!? (this was against those giant flowers which are the Abyss Worms of this game)

Dude could the pro gambler be, somehow, Gantz, the miner?

Onto the Moon Temple. This is the last unexplored ruins so I guess this is the penultimate chapter. Obviously the final dungeon will be Mishyland

Yo they're using the *same* Deadman models as 3rd. They have crossbow bolts in them. We're fighting Kevin's victims. This is definitely canon

I hate that this game doesn't have Haze. The enemies are just strong enough that they won't run away from me consistently, but are weak enough that I don't get good experience from them and they aren't a threat, so fighting is a waste of time

It's so silly how some people say you don't need to play 3rd. Forget about Hajimari, how could one truly appreciate this area without it! Oh, the area boss is an Arch Devil? Hopefully it'll drop a Cat Suit +3 ehehehehe. New music too nice. That thing was easier as a miniboss overworld encounter in 3rd than as a boss here

yep it's gantz

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I wonder if Central Square's Bell is gonna start doing silly stuff as a plot point sometime

The cops were chasing a piggy in this kids' book? Sounds like they got things mixed up a little hee horf

oh shit


Hell yeah Estelle!


Oh of course it's Lechter that's beating Gantz. I should've known

nooooo I missed Chapter 12 somehow my life is over

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So I wandered into Imelda's or whatever to buy an accessory and apparently she has a quest for me now, even though I talked to her earlier and nobody had dialogue changes (besides the Guild)?? wack. At least maybe I can see one of the Thirteen Factories?.. How the hell did he grab these monsters from Phantasmagoria?

They're explicitly dolls, so maybe Renne told them about them and he got inspired? Shoutouts to the enemy description which fails to mention the physical reflect the Tildawns have. At least confuse is surprisingly easy to deal with when you see it coming in this game. Just have Recuria ready to cast right after the enemies' turn, and if you must have other people casting too so they won't hit themselves.

Seriously, did they just not playtest some parts of the game? The level 25 monster chest had two apes, with 10k health each that were immune to all debuffs. The level 30 monster chest had two Master Cryons, with 6k health each and only resisted status and only used arts. Extremely easy to slow, delay and art reflect. I could've taken this chest five levels ago, and that old chest would be obnoxious to take now.

whoa this spooky song is cool. almost sounds like an arrangement of something from Battle Network, somehow

hmm... if KeA had her memory wiped because she was involved with the cult and had to take the drugs, I have a feeling at some point she'll start to regain her memories and be overcome with pain. The Power of Friendship and some cheesy speeches by Lloyd will probably be used to fix that

I'm happy to report that our work is still cut out for us.

Wow, speaking of unbalanced fights, I decided to try the level 40 monster chest on the lark. The enemies were beefy, but with no more health than those damned dirty apes and had a severe weakness to time. They couldn't one-shot any of my guys (although they did cause Faint), and, most importantly, had low accuracy. An Aqua Mirage was enough to get them to miss 2/3 of the time, and Elie was literally untouchable. Jeez. Too bad the reward was... mediocre.

They really should've put a shortcut to the bottom of the tower.

Again. The Tower's extermination had a fairly tanky enemy with Arts cancel that did a fair amount of damage. Not too terrible, but not very easy to deal with. The Moon Temple had an enemy that used Galion Tower, which is pretty annoying to deal with--a fight of impede spams. The Ancient Battlefield had an enemy with deathblow... that also dies in like three art attacks. The game warns you about this status too. This fight was literally nine turns long and required zero effort, and would take less if I felt like S-Craft spam (which, incidentally, is easy to do since you have Invigorate and can grind CP off of the stationary monster). I don't expect exterminations to necessarily be difficult, but I did think this batch would have around the same strength, rather than two endurance fights then a joke.

Oh cool, Dudles finally joins the party. And he brought me an EP 3 as a gift, how sweet!

We're nearing the final chapter and they send Flying Felines after us

Oh, the samurai weeb robot. There was one of these in CS2, wasn't there?

Dudley's S-Craft is hysterical

YOOOOO TIO IS THE NEW KEVIN HELL YEAH

They probably shouldn't say that all of my support requests will expire if I continue when they won't (I looked up requirements for the peculiar dish quest to make sure I was ready to turn it in).

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I have no idea who the puppetmaster could be. It'll be a sprited character who has indicated at points that they know what's going on or has been involved with at least one storyline case. Won't be anybody in the Mafia or Heiyue. Very much it'd be a bracer, unless they feel really bold. Won't be any of the SSS. Doubt it'll be a cop or a member of the CGF either. I'm sure it isn't the mayor, or Lechter or Kilika. Ilya is too closely tied with the surprise of Rixia to be the demon, even if I had any reason to suspect her. Cecilia may be it if Falcom is ballsy and wants to completely surprise us.

My best guess is Doctor Joachim. He's got a similar profile to Alba, and this game hasn't shied away from repeating archetypes. He's conveniently an expert in both Pharmacology and Neurology, which are relevant to the cult's pursuits, he's very decidedly carefree and innocuous, which obviously makes him more suspicious, and he's a character that's been around enough that nobody's going to have forgotten him.

Anyway, onto the Final Chapter

edit: oh yeah the Crois exist. maybe it could be them, although i thought that as soon as I met him and felt it was too obvious

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I can't wait for Renne to fly down with Pater Mater at some climatic confrontation, stopping everybody in their tracks with jaws agape while she giggles at the fun

I got the cheevo for doing all of the quests, but I only have 343 DP. Apparently, 1st Rank Detective is 376 and max is 380. I don't think I messed up so badly to be missing that much, so I guess you'll get the rest at the end... and the reward for it as well?? At least I still have this


Christ, I'm short hundreds of quartz to even finish Tio's setup. I have no water quartz, and 4000 of the higher elements. This'll be nice for my wallet, but jeez. Guess I get to farm in the Geofront for a while

oh I guess I'm right about Joachim. Nice

Yin, sick. She kind of swings her sword like Loewe. This hospital theme was the same as that little bit at the very beginning of the game, right?

WAIT HOLY SHIT YIN NARUTO RUNS! Dammit

oh my goodness... they let me into a linen closet... this is everything i ever could've wanted in these games...

!!!


I guess Ernest decided to fully emulate his hero Gilbert and got some enhancement. Seems like he swallowed a gemstone containing Yelig-nar, the Blightwind amirite

Oh, Paradise was a lodge? I considered that Renne was part of this but thought it would be too convenient and didn't really fit with what we already knew about her. Which in retrospect doesn't make much sense, since it explains everything pretty well, from her genius to Ouroboros raiding it. Wait is that Kevin?? Nope, that's just a generic look apparently. And there's Renne's Pater-Mater exit.

I really had enough stamina for about another fifteen of those fights guys, you really didn't need to worry

Finally, Roaring Over the Barrier and cutscenes appear! And Light Illuminating the Depths (though I knew that was at the end)

I gotta hand it to the game for making each guest party member more exciting than the last. Noel was obviously gonna be one, Dudley was expected but still cool. Yin was awesome, and this is pure hype


Although I DON'T SEEM TO REMEMBER THEM BEING THERE at the beginning of the game

I was upset for a second because Estelle lost Wheel of Time but then I realized PHOENIX WAVE IS CASSIUS'S S-CRAFT!!!!

Fear my power


Joshua only slashes once in battle and I don't know if I can handle it

Last Disaster fucks everything up and I don't know if they can handle it


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Thanks for the assist, Chest


The way Tio pronounced "metamorphosis"... my god

Guess I'm at the end


I've long since learned my lesson about trying to beat these games late at night, so this shall be finished tomorrow

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NFUN posted...

Oh, the samurai weeb robot. There was one of these in CS2, wasn't there?

ya. Angelica's uncle sends one at you as the boss of the Reinford Building liberation.

NFUN posted...

Yin, sick. She kind of swings her sword like Loewe. This hospital theme was the same as that little bit at the very beginning of the game, right?

iirc, yeah. Invitation/Temptation to Wisdom is the track name off the top of my head.


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Apparently gotta fight Garcia first. Calamity Claw flicker flicker flicker flicker flicker flicker flicker come on

Can't wait to see what horrific abomination Guenter turns into!

oh that explains that I guess


Okay this guy is just Proto-Duarte from the Expanse. And looks like Demon Rean. I guess Rean may be part of it too maybe??

Inevitable Struggle and not a unique Phase 1 theme, dang

...did... did he just vanish half the stage with zero warning? I think this is the first time I've lost to a Kiseki final boss, and I'm not happy that that's how it happened (technically Josh survived but then got immediately ganked to his S-Craft). I guess there were subtle clues when you killed his friends and parts fell off, but they died so quickly I didn't even notice. Getting past that, he's really easy wow. Didn't even take long either; he fucking jobs to Last Disaster

I should've trusted myself more. HERE is Renne's dramatic entrance!

Hey, an S-Craft compilation just like in FC! I already very deliberately killed his second phase with a +50% STR, Crit, 200CP Phoenix Wave though, so this is a little less climatic

The scene with Renne was pretty funny when keeping in mind the SSS is standing just out of shot awkwardly while Estelle and Renne have their moment. Pater-Mater putting Renne down was cheesy but I still cheered for him

Exceptional


And Estelle and Joshua got real intimate at the awards ceremony


Zero no Kiseki beated. Pretty strong ending--I was surprised that everything was wrapped up cleanly with still room for a sequel. FC and SC1 had Falcom cliffhangers, CS2 was just despair, and SC and 3rd had pretty final finals. This was ended like a normal story in a series! Credits were oddly not great. Not even a slideshow, just a poorly panning city and then fire.

Conclusion in next post

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It was really interesting playing these after Liberl and the first Erebonia arc. You can see how the style of the series "progressed". I used the quotes because I got a strong impression that they had most things of Erebonia planned out before this game; I know 3rd and Crossbell weren't initially mapped out into the series and were added later, and I theorize that the planning that went into Cold Steel was basically finished by the time they started working on this, down to mechanics and characters. Like, Zero seemed almost "rushed" and the "progression" I mention was deliberate instead of natural.
For example, they simplified the quartz/arts system a lot in a way that felt off, even after I got used to it. There were less tiers for each quartz, Elie and Tio's grids were pretty mediocre for casters, and the philosophy for element totals for arts was strange. It almost seemed that they were trying to wean us off of such dependence on lines. I don't think they would've built it this way if they didn't already know Cold Steel would get rid of the system entirely.
As for characters, they recycled aspects of others a lot. Lloyd and Guenter were obviously just Rean and Alba. Elie has the background of Alisa, down to hiding her true identity until it's directly relevant. Randy had an almost identical background, as far as we know, to Fie, and Tio is basically Tita, Renne and Fie combined in role, background and personality, synthesized into one character. The Special Support Section as a unit is treated just like Class VII. Et cetera. This didn't bug me too much; it was just something that stood out a lot.

The story and pacing was really good by this series's standards. Like the ending, it actually seemed pretty normal. I don't necessarily dislike long buildups like FC, but "objectively" speaking, it was way too slow. Here we got introduced to the Mafia plotting stuff early and they kept the intrigue building at a nice pace in the open rather than tantalizing hints. It kind of felt that they dropped the Viper Saber/Testaments plot and only cared about Wazy, which is fine I guess. The cult plot was cool if not mindblowing--I'm more excited to see what the deal with KeA is (probably Falcom's goal tbh).

I think I said it my first post in the original topic that the characters had potential. More or less, they lived up to it. Individually, they were definitely above Class VII's average, and I was actively interested in all of them (I mean, Lloyd is kind of whatever but yeah). Sergio was a cool boss and KeA is an amazing adorable ball of sunshine that I love. And there was a fair amount of Estelle, Joshua and Renne so things couldn't be too bad.

I'm glad that there was at least one arc in the series that takes place in the same area. The games are at their best in regards to the NPCs, and having an entire game to develop them was clearly a good decision, at least in regards to the city. I didn't really care about Mainz or Armorica tbh. Plus, the roads were easily the best and prettiest in the series (the seaside routes in Ruan could give it a run for its money, though). When I was doing the photography quest, there were a few areas that I thought were designed to have photos taken of, but weren't part of the request--they were just super scenic because.

I think the gameplay was the worst so far. It didn't really have the freedom to make quartz builds like TitS did, and CS went all out on their Master Quartz system and came up with something else that ended up being pretty good. Like I said, it was intentionally stuck in the middle, and that aspect suffered for it. Combo Crafts were a cool idea, but you didn't really have a reason to use them. It's more convenient to use S-Breaks, which also tended to do more damage as far as I can tell. I don't think there was ever a moment where using them was the best decision; either I used them because they're cool or realized it wasn't worth it afterwards. A couple I think had cool effects maybe... eh.
They tried to fix the damage scaling TitS had... but that was only really a big problem in FC, and by the 3rd it seemed pretty natural. Originally, most basic Arts were better because of use times. In this, basic Arts from a caster against high-level enemies did between like 1-300 damage, while Avalon Gate or Last Disaster could do easily thousands. Combined with the late Arts' range, casters had little reason to use basic Arts and non-casters couldn't end up doing damage. Sure, there's the opportunity cost, but Elie is gonna have Thunder Cyclone and Tio is going to have Genesis Flood almost assuredly regardless, and since you're gonna be giving then EP 3 and EP Cut 3 already, you may as well push them over the edge.
The natural issue with that is that it costs a lot of EP, but lategame, physical attacks were about as useful as they were in FC, so at least one party is always going to have some free time. I ran Lloyd/Tio/Estelle/Joshua, and after our requisite Chrono Drives (and Calamity Claw if the enemy could be slowed, which is silly because tough enemies never can be EXCEPT THE FINAL BOSS SOMEHOW), and maybe Fortuna or Holy Breath if they're bored, Lloyd and Estelle don't really have anything better to do than through EP Charges at people. I was excited when I saw Estelle had basically the same attack as Lloyd and Randy--finally, no more is she a utility as she can BEAT PEOPLE WITH A STICK like she's always meant to--and then I realized she couldn't do anything with it besides S-Crafts. Fights ended up being Avalon Gate/Last Disaster spam without much nuance while half the party looked around for something to do. For the final boss, my team had always +50% Spd, +50% ATF/ADF and usually +25% or +50% Attack because what else were they going to do? There also didn't seem to be any way to debuff an enemy's stats besides speed and move consistently, which was weird.
And most importantly, Elie could only get up to 75% Evade. Unfair.

The music was consistently good if not excellent. I think I enjoyed a higher proportion of songs in this than the other games, but none knocked my socks off (at least none I didn't know already). I guess that's an opportunity for Evo.

I think I ended up with 357 DP, and I have no idea where I could've missed any. I'm looking through a sidequest guide and it looks like I got max DP on all of those, and I don't remember any obvious locations in main quests where I could've dropped any. I always answered questions correctly and never lost any fights. I guess a lot of nonsense added up.

uhhh I think that's it. Tentative final ranking:

SC > 3rd > Zero > FC >> CS1 = CS2

I of course adore all of TitS so this is pretty good

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Good stuff, and I agree across the board with most of your impressions.

On the gameplay front, despite the Crossbell saga being a transition between TitS and Cold Steel, I still prefer its system to Cold Steel's. There's something to be said about building your quartz, and while it may be somewhat simplified here (though I admit I didn't really notice a big difference with FC), it's still better than Cold Steel.

I'm not sure what you mean about Lloyd being useless in combat - I thought he was great. Had some solid damage output all around, and his craft which inflicts Seal on a line of enemies is great since everything is weak to Seal. Totally agree that by the end, however, everything is solved via copious use of Genesis Flood. EP cost is not even a problem if you have Ingenuity lying around (which I always do outside of boss fights).

If you thought Zero was well-paced, I think you're going to like Ao. Best-paced game in the series (and overall best game in the series too IMO, though ymmv).

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No enemy weak to Seal survived long enough for me to ever need to worry about it! The rare times I'd like to have the enemies sealed, it was easier for Randy to smoke bomb them all because of the higher chance and larger range

i also had two ingenuitys from a fish reward

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Fuck i forgot this song. This was great, especially in context
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVPmrpqI8BA

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I didn't have the impression that the Class VII characters themselves were figured out an any level of detail during the Crossbell arc, though that is admittedly a guess on my part. The idea for Class VII as a whole I think was in place as well as the overall plot for CS1/2, I just don't know how much of the specifics were worked out. (Fun fact: According to Kondo, Olivier was intended to be the protagonist of the Erebonia arc at some point of the planning cycle, but I think this concept had been long-since scrapped when the Crossbell arc came into being.)

I do agree that Falcom likes to re-use character arc ideas from time to time, but I actually disagree with a few of the specifics you have here.

--A large part of the Falcom fanbase likes to draw Rean/Lloyd parallels and I just..don't really agree. There are similarities in terms of how they interact with their companions, but I'm not sure how much further I would take any comparisons. In particular, to me one of the defining aspects of Rean's character is that at every stage of the narrative (so far) he's crippled by a sense of uncertainty in his identity and what he wants to accomplish, and also by a fear of his own agency in the world and that he might take actions that he later comes to regret. Lloyd doesn't really have any of that, and I'd argue in he can be viewed as a foil to Rean in the sense that one of Lloyd's defining characteristics is an unyielding ability to cut through such uncertainty and identify exactly what his role is and embrace it. I suppose, just characterizing them as foils must mean that there is some lens through which the characters can be viewed similarly, but I do steadfastly reject the idea that they are the same character. (This isn't exactly what you said, but it is what I've seen a lot fans of the series say)

--I also don't agree with the Randy/Fie comparisons, though I think a lot of why I say this has to do with content in Ao no Kiseki. Their personalities are very different though, and I actually think their background/circumstances are quite different aside from just them both being former jaegers. (ie. I think the nature of their relationship with their former corps is different in a fundamental way)

--I do more or less agree with your characterizations of Elie/Tio/Joachim.

I also think there's another big character parallel that I would draw which you didn't call attention to, but I can't remember right now how much of this plotline is in Ao so probably I will avoid commenting on it for now.

Might comment on more later.
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pyresword posted...

A large part of the Falcom fanbase likes to draw Rean/Lloyd parallels and I just..don't really agree. There are similarities in terms of how they interact with their companions, but I'm not sure how much further I would take any comparisons. In particular, to me one of the defining aspects of Rean's character is that at every stage of the narrative (so far) he's crippled by a sense of uncertainty in his identity and what he wants to accomplish, and also by a fear of his own agency in the world and that he might take actions that he later comes to regret. Lloyd doesn't really have any of that, and I'd argue in he can be viewed as a foil to Rean in the sense that one of Lloyd's defining characteristics is an unyielding ability to cut through such uncertainty and identify exactly what his role is and embrace it. I suppose, just characterizing them as foils must mean that there is some lens through which the characters can be viewed similarly, but I do steadfastly reject the idea that they are the same character. (This isn't exactly what you said, but it is what I've seen a lot fans of the series say)

That's probably fair. I'll re-examine this when I play Cold Steel again. I think part of the problem is that a lot of people don't find them to be particularly interesting characters, so the nuances of who they are beyond "always knowing the perfect say to their friends" and "being perfect leaders" gets lost.

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here are some chest quotes i never posted




One final thing I think I forgot to mention: did anybody else find the story of Shizuki's pendant for Arios SUSPICIOUSLY reminiscent of the Happiness Stone from 3rd?

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