Board 8 > Post Each Time You Beat a Game: 2020 Edition Part II

(+) Yeah! (+)

WILL: A Wonderful World (PS4)

An interesting visual novel where you play as a god that can change the storylines of humans and fix the mistakes they make to lead them towards a better ending. While I found the overarching plot to be somewhat lackluster with an ending I didn't really like, all of the individual storylines in the game were extremely interesting - and watching them continually fail by making dumb mistakes was pretty funny as well. I think this visual novel is worth reading because of the individual storylines and not the overarching plot. Also, while you might need a guide to finish the trophy list, it isn't required to get any of the endings - the entire game is basically trial and error and you'll find your way towards the end by just rearranging the stories until it works. Definitely worth a play if nothing else - though there are some extremely heavy themes and it's not for someone easily disturbed.

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Dark Souls 2: Crown of the Ivory King DLC

Holy balls this was difficult. Got murdered by Aava right away since he was invisible, realized I clearly can't fight him then, and scrambled around Eleum Loyce. The frozen knights that are immune to backstabs are fairly challenging when they gang up on you.

All that said, nothing is as cool as when you get past all of that, defeat Aava, find the 3 Loyce knights to help you, and drop into (essentially) literal Hell. The battle against the charred Loyce knights was difficult enough, and I died a fair few times there, but when the giant portal shows up and the Burnt Ivory King makes his entrance, that is just such a cool moment. He killed me probably 10ish times before I won, but man what an epic atmosphere for a boss fight.

All I had left was an area to light some torches, which I could do now because the blizzard stopped, finding a key, and having some coffin slide down to a place called Frigid Outskirts. Giant blizzard, can't see anything, and getting ganked by an endless amount of demon reindeer...

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Unravel (PS4)

I knew it was a physics platformer, but I was surprised at how much physics were involved. It definitely had its fair share of frustrating segments as a result, but overall I enjoyed the game.
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metaIslug posted...

I can't tell if you beat that area or not, but it's easily the hardest area in the game. If you beat that area solo you have my respect

Not yet, I got the Crown so I consider the DLC "beaten", but I still plan to finish that area. I got to the boss once, by sheer dumb luck. Wondered why I was doing so much damage to it, and then the second one showed up... Since I was unprepared, I died quite quickly. Will try again later tonight when I have time, but my main issue is getting to it, since I have no idea where to go. I managed to get all turned around and got back to the beginning once, and was in complete disbelief lol.

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Splatoon 2 (Switch)

Thank you Game of the Month for making me finally do the campaign.

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Wuppo (PC)

Very fun and cute experience. The worldbuilding and the humor makes you want to keep exploring. I hope there is a 2nd game with an even bigger scale because what exists now is just begging for secrets to be found. There are some here but it just makes you thirstier in hindsight.

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metaIslug posted...

I can't tell if you beat that area or not, but it's easily the hardest area in the game. If you beat that area solo you have my respect

So I definitely had to summon someone. They ended up being bait for the horses, as well as bait for Lud and Zallen. But the area is finally beaten, thank the good lord!

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Broken Age (PC)

Eh, it was all right for what it was. I liked the dual story and the characters, but it started to drag towards the end. Also I hated the wiring parts.

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Layers of Fear (Switch)

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Shantae: Risky's Revenge (PC)

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Simoun posted...

Shantae: Risky's Revenge (PC)

I know most people are partial to Pirate's Curse, but RR is my favorite in the series.

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Punch Line (Vita)

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/79077913

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Underleveled posted...

I know most people are partial to Pirate's Curse, but RR is my favorite in the series.

That's good to know. It's got a certain charm to it. PC is my next game and yes I have heard alot of good things about it.

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Fantasy Life (3DS)

So I think I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that this is my retroactive 2014 Game of the Year. Only major complaint I can think of is that I wish that each Life had a full quest and storyline outside of the initial tutorial mission.

Hyrule Warriors: Definitive Edition (Switch)

I think I liked Pirate Warriors 3 more, but it was still good.

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The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks (DS) via Wii U
Well, I thought it would be better playing this way than using mouse+controller for Phantom Hourglass. It was more authentic but still a pain in the ass. All the microphone-controlled things were particularly heinous. And the game feels like it would be a lot better with only dungeons.

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Winback: Covert Operations (PS2)

Another old lingering demon vanquished. I don't know how many people know this game exists, but it holds a very special place in my childhood. I could never beat it on the N64 and was so glad it came out when I first got my PS2 all those years ago. Something very interesting I discovered about this game recently helped me beat it at last.

This is a very annoying and very intriguing game. It basically invented cover-based shooting (later popularized by Killzone and eventually Gears of War) as well as laser-sighting from guns (popularized by RE4) in videogames. However, unlike every other cover shooter ever, this one actually encouraged you to only use it as a last resort. The true skill and difficulty of this game comes from being able to manually line-up a headshot, as well as retain aggressiveness throughout the shootouts. I've always been using the cover as it was safe but now that I knew how this game actually operated, things went by much more smoothly.

Other than the gunplay, there is barely anything else of note. Nigh barren environments, a nonsense series of events some people would call a story, and absolutely so bad its bad voice-acting. But its my childhood charm and now its beaten once and for all.

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Downtown Nekketsu Story (Famicom/Switch)
Double Dragon (NES/Switch)
Nekketsu Renegade Kunio-kun (Famicom/Switch)
Renegade (NES/Switch)
Double Dragon II: The Revenge (NES/Switch)
Double Dragon III: The Rosetta Stone (NES/Switch)
Downtown Special Kunio-kun's Historical Period Drama! (Famicom/Switch)

^ I played these via the Double Dragon & Kunio-kun Retro Brawler Bundle

Double Dragon 2 > Double Dragon 1 > Double Dragon 3
DD3 isn't all that bad except when the final boss can potentially soft lock you. Ranzou also sucks and is a disgrace to all playable video game ninjas. He's only good for making some difficult jumps in Egypt. If he is your last character left, you're better off using his only decent move: Neutral Jump Kick.

DD1: Screw the wall and Machine Gun Willy.

DD2: Great beat em' up at it's finest.
All the platforming segments in the DD Trilogy are...eh, but they were put there for variety's sake to switch things up and some of them aren't all that bad.

It was neat to play Downtown Nekketsu Story, the Japanese version of River City Ransom with an English translation. I had to get used to some of the item names from the shops I wasn't familiar with but I put two and two together from my River City Ransom experience.

Renegade/Nekketsu Renegade Kunio-kun. The grandfather of all beat em' ups. It was cool to play the Japanese version and to see an actual ending compared to the American version.

Downtown Special Kunio-kun's Historical Period Drama! was very fun to play. It was basically another faster paced version of River City Ransom. Completed this with a friend via online play.

Haunted Halloween 86 (Switch)

I played this near the end of October and I liked it. A fun beat em' up platformer where you can learn moves between levels and it was Halloween themed. Game was made on an actual NES by the devs and it did have that feeling of playing an NES game.

10 Second Run RETURNS (Switch)

This game was very fun and addicting. You have to run and jump (sometimes wall jump) to the exit before 10 seconds are up. I beat all 100 levels and got every star. I highly recommend it!

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The Mummy Demastered (Switch)

Solid Metroidvania. Reminds me of Aliens: Infestation, also by WayForward. The Mummy isn't great source material but the game makes it work, more or less.

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Disney's PK: Out of the Shadows (Gamecube)

At one point I decided I wanted to try and own every Gamecube game, but I stopped myself around 200. Now I'm actually trying to beat these games and I realize now that most of them are gonna suck like this one. I don't even remember where I bought this one but it was likely for $5

Revenge of the Bird King (Switch)

I got this game long ago for $0.01
1 cent.
It's a very weird and strange game. It's apparently the third game in the Gun World series.
You play as an eagle who can plant guns and grows them. Yes. Gun Plants. You can also set them up as turrets as well. It also has climbable surfaces with a climb button and even a slide that reminded me of Mega Man. You can also do a jumping somersault that launches you pretty far after a slide, which the game doesn't tell you about.
The story was nonsensical.
I liked some of the gameplay except a few of the levels have really bad design.
It has an overworld very reminiscent of Zelda II: The Adventure of Link which I really liked. It even has the shadowy enemies you can run into to initiate the action sequence. You can also level up and but new guns/items from a vending machine when you clear more areas.

The bosses were also really pathetically easy and it was a little on the short side.

Reknum (Switch)

I wanted to like this game. I really did. It has nice art but behind that art lies a mess of a game.

You play as Cheri, who is tasked with stopping the Sorceress that has cursed the 5 crystals and has enclosed the whole kingdom of Reknum to absorb their vitality and become immortal. Cheri then gets the sacred Claymore and will use it to break the Crystals to defeat the Sorceress and restore peace to the kingdom.

This game doesn't tell you about the mechanics at all whatsoever, like jumping off the wall. Spike and fire hazards are awful and you get sent back immediately to the beginning of the level.

I found out near the end of the game that you can actually aim your bow and arrow in any direction with the analog stick and not with the D-Pad. Like, what?

Boss battles are a combination between very easy and annoying. Annoying cause if they shoot a projectile at you, you instantly die. Thankfully it starts you at the boss fight again and not at the beginning of a level. All the boss fights are also the same except with a different sprite.

By the way, after you beat the dragon boss there's a really awful part where you jump on the spring and try to jump up the wall there's a little niche you have to go to that just feels impossible to reach in order to go to the next level. That part is awful and was harder than the boss itself.

There's a weird level progression where you have to go find some bombs, blow them up and you take a different path only to end up doing the level again in order to proceed further. Huh.

There's this weird upgrade passive skill system that where if you collect enough gold from chests, you get increased Speed, Jump and EX Jump (which is an abysmal double jump). But guess what? None of that matters if:

1 You die.
2 . When you reach the next area or boss, you lose your gold anyway.
So it ends up being pointless in the end.

The game crashed on me twice. Once when I died to a boss and another time when I lost my life bar by normal means from enemies. Great! Luckily the game autosaved.

Last level is where it gets really good (bad). You get to go through the previous levels again that you went through that just pads the game except they sorta changed the levels up to make it seem different. They did the same thing with their other game, V.O.I.D.

The ending hints at a sequel, which is apparently still getting worked on. I think I'll pass.

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Carrion (XB1)

Pretty nifty reverse-horror game that was actually great in the puzzle department. I wish there was a map though.
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Star Fox Adventures (Game Cube)

It's hard to really review this game without explaining a bit of its history. This actually started development in the mid-late 90s as an N64 game called Dinosaur Planet, an original IP that was going to be Rare's answer to Zelda and according to some their best game ever. The game suffered numerous delays and was further pushed back when half the team split off to make Jet Force Gemini, eventually looking to be the console's swan song and ultimately pushed to Game Cube. Additionally, Miyamoto noticed a striking resemblance between the male lead (I say male lead because originally Krystal was going to split lead duties with said male, although her role was greatly reduced in the finished product) and Fox McCloud, so he worked his magic to get the Star Fox IP added, which resulted in many plot changes. The game was released in September 2002 for the Game Cube, with extremely unfortunate timing - a month after Super Mario Sunshine and about six weeks before Metroid Prime. Needless to say many Big N fans glossed over this one in favor of those two heavy-hitters. Additionally, Microsoft's buyout of Rare was announced concurrently with the game's launch, so fans were pretty disappointed.

While playing this game, there were times when I tried to think of it as Dinosaur Planet instead of Star Fox Adventures, because it's nothing like any other Star Fox game. For the first Zelda-like game from a company that primarily made Mario 64-esque platformers, it was... not a bad attempt. There were some really fun areas to explore, and puzzles to solve, but also some dull areas, a ton of repetition (including a few dungeons that you had to do multiple times with very little variance between the two visits), and some puzzles/tasks that were either needlessly difficult, extremely frustrating or tedious, or what you were supposed to do was so incredibly cryptic. Combat was also very repetitive and boss battles were not fun. They did incorporate some classic Star Fox gameplay, but even that was boring and repetitive. The voice acting was bad. Fox was pretty good (in fact I really liked Fox's personality overall in this one even if it was pretty inconsistent with everything else he's ever been in), but everyone else was meh-to-bad, Tricky being particularly atrocious. The graphics were nice though. Definitely one of the best-looking Game Cube games.

Overall this had me longing for what it was originally supposed to be. I wouldn't call it a bad game and I guess overall I'm glad I finally played it and knocked it out of my gigantic collection of games I never beat, but I don't think I'd play it again. Not for many years anyway.

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NBA Courtside 2002 (Gamecube)
NBA Live 2003 (Gamecube)

Oh yeah go my giant pile of Gamecube games. Live > Courtside for these two but it's not really saying much.

Wild Arms (PS1) (Replay)
Wild Arms! Sort of a B-list RPG from a developer that never made much besides that series. The Wild West theme is somewhat tenuous here, as the themes would mostly be right at home in a Final Fantasy, but we get some good music out of it. Game is sprite-based with 3D battle visuals, both of which look nice. A good start to the series.

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Feeding Frenzy 2 (360)

My first course of action when EA Play was added to Game Pass was to download and play all of the Pop Cap games that I didn't own lol.
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Shantae and the Seven Sirens (Switch)

It was good and fun. Story was good, dialogue was funny, standard Shantae stuff you would come to expect from the series.

Not my fave in the series (Pirate's Curse is probably my fave) but it was good.

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Tetris Effect: Connected

Overall it was a pretty fun Tetris game. I really liked all the themes, and the visuals. That being said, I think I prefer the competitive Tetris games over the single player one (Puyo Puyo Tetris, Tetris 99, Tetris Friends).

GOG, glad you liked Seven Sirens! It may be my second favorite in the series. My biggest complaint was that it was way too easy (in a series that is already relatively easy)

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ABZU (Switch)

Absolutely beautiful game.

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Deep Ones (PS4)

It is supposed to be an homage to ZX Spectrum games. I never played the system, so I wouldn't know, but the graphics style and setting were what got me to buy it. I wanted to like this more than I did, but combat and especially boss fights really had no place in this game. I think it would have turned out great if it is simply a platformer.
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Horizon: Zero Dawn (PC)

It was all right. I definitely liked it more the longer I played as more was revealed about how the world came to be the way that it is.

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Bravely Default (3DS)

Borrowed it from my partner, as it was one of his favorite games ever and I just never got around to this game, even though I like JRPGs. I put a solid 80+ hours into it and had a lot of fun grinding out the job levels and mixing up stuff to see what works. One of the coolest things was having four Dark Knights one-rounding entire groups of bosses in the first turn of the battle later in the game. This game is meant to be broken and every option you have to do so is fun to figure out. Not to mention the quality of life stuff...controlling the encounter rate, what things you can gain and difficulty wherever you want whenever you want is very nice.

Not a bad story either, despite some weird inconsistencies and sometimes questionable execution, and surprisingly fun characters. I sometimes just laughed whenever Agns had that extremely dramatic voice acting during some of the dramatic moments. Yeah, really good and fun game overall, glad I played it in the end.

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Darksiders III (XB1)

It's really hard to compare the games since they each approach design, structure, and combat so differently, but after a sluggish start, I ended up really liking this a lot. I think they did an excellent job with the powers, and I was especially impressed with the multiple ways you could tackle underwater segments.
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Horizon: Zero Dawn (PS4)

The premise of this game is awesome. From the beginning I thought I would enjoy playing it and I have to say I wasn't disappointed. It was really fun to play and I loved the story. I loved the way how things were presented and I'm pretty excited for the sequel. One of my favourite things about this game is that the dialogue changes a bit to fit the context of your progression. So, the order of which you do side/main quests, whether or not you've done the DLC or not, etc. It's cool because it actually does feel like the game world updates to your progression, which was neat.

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Grim Fandango (XB1)

There's a lot to complain about this game, including the typical point-and-click adventure moon logic, many of the better characters being underutilized or poorly utilized, and a plot that never really takes off after a promising start, yet I have always loved it and am glad it came to Game Pass for me to replay.
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Erica (PS4)

This game was free on PS+ so I figured I'd give it a shot since it would be different, short, and an easy source of trophies. It was interesting I guess but I'm really not a big fan of "movies pretending to be games". I went through it six times for the platinum trophy but I still have no idea what's actually going on in the story.

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Luigi's Mansion 3 (Switch)

1 > 2 > 3

Rainbow Six Vegas (360)

Wasn't too big into this one. I found the difficulty curve odd; the game starts off being very scarce with checkpoints and dying just puts you back to the start of the level basically, and the closer you get to the end of the game, the more it feels like the game gives you a checkpoint for every hallway you go through. Maybe it was just because I got better or the end of the game is easier to control but it was noticeable.

This game also has a pretty weird control scheme as far as I'm concerned, which also didn't help with getting used to it.

Solid game still though, it didn't do anything poorly (considering the release date). Just never going to be singing its praises.

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ViolentAbacus posted...

GOG, glad you liked Seven Sirens! It may be my second favorite in the series. My biggest complaint was that it was way too easy (in a series that is already relatively easy)

Not sure where I would rank it. Probably somewhere in the middle. I do look forward to whatever free content that will eventually be added to Seven Sirens to make me come back for more.

Furwind (Switch)

Darhn, an evil being that was imprisoned long ago has been released from captivity and it's up to Furwind, a cute furry fox that must stop it.

Game has nice pixel graphics and the music is nice. Game plays well enough.
There are 7 different types of levels you go through in 3 worlds.

One you go around and fight 2 mid bosses to collect medallions to exit the level.

Another one is similar to what I mentioned above except you have to collect fireflies in the dark caves while you fight 2 mid bosses and collect 2 medallions again to exit the level. These are the worst levels cause if you run out of fireflies you die instantly. You have to make sure you constantly have fireflies on you at all times. Luckily you can always get them from their nests.

Third level is a chase sequence that once completed, you earn a new power. Powers you collect are an air dash that also damages enemies, healing and fireballs. There aren't too many opportunities to use them aside from maybe the healing. You have to be creative with the other two.

4th level is a vertical temple you climb up to and you mid bosses are literally Simon, the electronic board game. You repeat the colors while dodging fireballs.

5th and 6th levels are purely optional and just for completionist sake(you find Challenges from the other levels and they are unlocked on the map). One is you find an red orb, destroy it and reach the exit. The other is an enemy rush where you have to destroy them all to free your fox friends.

Last type of level is the obligatory Boss levels. Most of them are easy.

Only thing I really disliked about this game aside from the cave levels is you get a stamina meter for your tail whip attack and pound the ground move.

You can also use the Gems you collect to upgrade your Health, Stamina and other moves.

It was an ok game.


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Wordsweeper by POWGI (Vita)

One of the better POWGI games, I enjoyed working through the puzzles in this game. However, the game could benefit from a good more puzzles, with only 120 total and many take less than two minutes to finish. The difficulty is also over the place; several of the Hard puzzles are much easier than a good number of the Medium puzzles, which makes little sense. It is still definitely worth a purchase, especially since when it is half off on PSN right now.

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Super Mario Galaxy (Switch)

Sunshine > Galaxy > 64
Hot takez

Night Call (XB1)

Honestly, while the final confrontation with each case's killer was tense, I feel like the game would have been better off not having the murder investigation part at all and just have it be basically a slice-of-life taxi service game. I had planned on getting every character as a passenger, but I just couldn't get the final eight or so characters to show up in free roam.
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The Fall of the Dungeon Guardians (PC)

If I ever see another dungeon again it'll be too soon!!! Hello, I'm finally back with another beat game and this time its an obscure Grimrock clone made in 2015. I think this will be one of my sleeper hits of the year. It's very hard to appreciate this game unless you are a certain kind of gamer. The dungeons don't change much and they do it every 4-5 floors. The progression and battles are slow as molasses, looking like something out of a WOW Raid Boss with the icon queuing and cooldown timing. The story is laughably nonsensical and hell nobody's gonna play this game anyway so here's how it ends: The Final Boss says his life was tied to the dungeon and now that hes dead, so are you. Not even a comeback from the heroes as you cut to black and the credits roll. Seriously. There's also a serious lack of music. I think there's only like 3 tracks in the game not counting the title and the credits. There's no boss music, which means you'll be spending most of your fights even the epic ones (even the final one) hacking away while Haunting Exploration Music #3 plays in the background.

Buuuuuut. Beneath the muddled veneer of this oldschool classic lies a gem. Yeah I can believe that. The design of the game---the way it autosaves every 5 minutes and gives you respecc points as rewards to secret passages---speaks experimentation. Each of the 3 classes has a 3-tree subclass which unlike every RPG ever, gives you a piddly amount of skills. Like, why would you ever take +3% Dodge or Haste. Because you have to. In this game, you are paced ever so slowly and even if you have the perfect build, there is no One Ability that's going to be the game changer. You're always going to have a hard time not unlike a Wizardry game in fact. You're always going to be plodding and trudging but you know what, it feel good when you beat it. Yeah, each of the 20 floors has a gimmick and a unique boss, forcing you to figure out its gimmick every single time.

And if you don't like the way it handles things. Just change the difficulty! Not only is this game flexible, its downright customizable. Every single aspect from the way you pause in real time automatically, to item highlights, to Enemy Difficulty and hell you can even remove enemies altogether and just play it like a maze game/puzzle fest. But I think one of the best things about this game for me is the way the map just flows together. The entire 20-level dungeon is one loading screen and eventually you figure out that each of the floors has hidden shortcuts leading to the other floors. It's so satisfying to just find that secret passage and complete that map.

Oh and there's also this amusing Treasure Hunt sidequest which spans 19 floors. You find a note that asks you to put it in a place which reveals another note which asks you to take it to the next floor, etc. I find it extremely satisfying to kill the secret boss bastard who's been sending these notes to me.

I would put it at Rank 10 of my Top 10.

And here's my ranking of Grimrock and its clones:

Legend of Grimrock 2
Vaporum: Lockdown
The Fall of the Dungeon Guardians
Legend of Grimrock
Vaporum
Operencia: The Stolen Sun

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Touhou Luna Nights 11/21

Pretty fun take on a metoridvania.
Easy till the final boss spike
I enjoyed my stay

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Wolfenstein: Youngblood (PC)

This game is the worst. I just powered through it because I just wanted something that wasn't a dungeon. I didn't think there was going to be a worse execution of FPS Open World than Shadow Warrior 2, but at least in that game it was "fair". This game tests you through weird design choices. Checkpoint starvation. Lack of an actual map. Crappy story. I mean, its killing nazis. How can you fuck that up. They were trying to go for some kind of depth at the beginning but it just spoiled itself by the end. The very 2nd major cutscene of the game and I could already smell the twist a mile away.

I think I read somewhere that MachineGames only bought the Wolfenstein license but didn't really care for the lore much. The New Order was where they just dumped all their amazing ideas. Then the rest were just standard crap as far as I'm concerned. And it's kinda sad because artistically and conceptually, they shine. The collectibles and aesthetics taking us into a nazi-dominated europe was still there, just as it had been in the previous games. But other than that, the game is mired by foolishness; trying to mess with a formula that works and making everything way more complicated than it should be.

It appears that Devolver Digital has learned their lesson as Shadow Warrior 3 is going back to that linear arcadey style the first one was known for. I wonder if Machine can do the same with Wolfenstein 3 and stop wasting time with these experimental spin-offs.

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Reventure (Switch)

I have so much I want to say about this game that if I went into too much detail, it would be spoilers.
I love this game. Like...so very much. One of the best Metroidvanias I've played in a good long while.
You are a Hero that goes on an Adventure and...that's all I got to say about it.
Now you want to know why I love this game so much?

100 Endings.

This game has 100 Endings. Some of them are hilarious, ridiculous and a little bloody. Reminded me of all the many different ways you can die in a point and click game for example. This game also has a good sense of humor and it has many funny game references both old and new.

So as you continue to get Endings, the world slightly changes and opens (unlocks) up which will allow you to find more Endings.

You can even find little notes (which are in random locations) that leave you Hints on how to figure out how to obtain an Ending and the Hints are really well done (most of them anyway!). Another neat thing you unlock along the way (about 50 or so Endings) is a Map and Compass. The Compass allows you to select one of the Hints you obtained and with the Map it will show you an X marking the spot. Makes it a LITTLE easier but not by a lot if you can't figure out hint! There's also a lot of very funny character skins you can also unlock.

There's also post game content and it's very much well worth doing IMO!

I whole heartily recommend this game.

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Grim Fandango (PC)

So, overall I enjoyed the writing and the characters, but I really dislike how the game is basically really obscure/hidden puzzle after another with no real idea on where to go or what to do. As it was I ended up using a guide for the majority just because I got tired of wandering around. Some of them I'm not sure I would have ever thought about the right way to do it.

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That was..surprisingly good
The game started off very very boring, generic enemies and level design, but as you progress you get more abilities, more enemy variety and better level design, not to mention the mid game twist that makes it so much better
I don't recall any other game that started off so slow and bad and yet turned into such a fine game afterwards, maybe only Majora's Mask or something. I usually find being able to judge a game by it's first hour. But in this case..it just kept getting better and better

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