Current Events > How did China maintain to control the virus but other countries still struggling

(+) Yeah! (+)

Because they lie about their numbers

because they dont have freedom

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monkmith posted...

i'm sorry, are you saying the FBI and CIA routinely grab american citizens for online shitposters/community activists/news reporters and ship them off to a secret prisons? because if so man i'd be worried if i were you...

They just do it to Brown people and call it extraordinary rendition.

Meanwhile may I remind you that autonomy still remains? Macau passed a similar law in 2009 and I'm still waiting for the mass arrests being predicted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macau_national_security_law

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SoIidLegacy posted...

1. They lie about their numbers.

Y'all keep believing that...Americans are so in denial that other countries are better than them.

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Fenriswolf posted...

They just do it to Brown people and call it extraordinary rendition.

Meanwhile may I remind you that autonomy still remains? Macau passed a similar law in 2009 and I'm still waiting for the mass arrests being predicted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macau_national_security_law

cool. have we done that to about 2mil of them? did we sterilize them first, make sure they couldn't breed and 'spreed their religion'?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps

i mean, america did stuff like this a century ago, but if you're going to bitch about that to try to hand wave away what china is doing NOW then i'm pretty sure you're just a schill...

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monkmith posted...

i'm sorry, are you saying the FBI and CIA routinely grab american citizens for online shitposters/community activists/news reporters and ship them off to a secret prisons? because if so man i'd be worried if i were you...

the FBI does. the CIA doesn't routinely do that to american citizens; their focus is generally on other countries

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People there don't fear masks

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monkmith posted...

cool. have we done that to about 2mil of them? did we sterilize them first, make sure they couldn't breed and 'spreed their religion'?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps

i mean, america did stuff like this a century ago, but if you're going to bitch about that to try to hand wave away what china is doing NOW then i'm pretty sure you're just a schill...

that's pretty much what ICE is doing now, though they're a separate institution from the FBI and CIA

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monkmith posted...

cool. have we done that to about 2mil of them? did we sterilize them first, make sure they couldn't breed and 'spreed their religion'?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps

i mean, america did stuff like this a century ago, but if you're going to bitch about that to try to hand wave away what china is doing NOW then i'm pretty sure you're just a schill...

So the US MSM says so it must be true? May I remind you that much of the claim comes from Adrian Zenz, a Christian fundamentalist connected with the NED trying to provoke regime change. Why? Because Xinjiang is a critical part of China's Belt and Road Initiative

https://thegrayzone.com/2019/12/21/china-detaining-millions-uyghurs-problems-claims-us-ngo-researcher/
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/05/09/uygh-m09.html

Furthermore, do you remember the WMDs in Iraq which led to the destabilization of the entire region? Or the testimony of Nayirah which claimed Iraqi soldiers took Kuwaiti babies out of incubators, and only later it was discovered to be a PR hoax?


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And not surprisingly, Trump is cool with it:

https://news.yahoo.com/five-bombshells-about-trump-from-boltons-book-201739765.html

Another excerpt published by the Journal deals with conversations between Trump and Xi about the construction of concentration camps for Chinas largely Muslim Uighur minority, whose loyalty to Beijing is considered suspect by the regime. At the opening dinner of the Osaka G-20 meeting in June 2019, with only interpreters present, Xi had explained to Trump why he was basically building concentration camps in Xinjiang, Bolton wrote. According to our interpreter, Trump said that Xi should go ahead with building the camps, which Trump thought was exactly the right thing to do. The National Security Councils top Asia staffer, Matthew Pottinger, told me that Trump said something very similar during his November 2017 trip to China.

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keep in mind that this was my original question:

averagejoel posted...

why do people think the numbers in china are less trustworthy than the numbers put out by any other government

people have stated that the chinese government is not trustworthy. fine. but they're not giving any evidence that it's less trustworthy than other governments

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UnfairRepresent posted...

They bordered up the worst parts and trod on all human rights. Then lied about the figures

The west cant do that

also it's not under control there

^^

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averagejoel posted...

so which governments are to be trusted?

so it's better when the FBI or CIA does it?

Whataboutisms

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time and rather concentrated efforts

china been dealing with this longer than any country and yeah, they also have epidemic measures to contain such a virus.

time. china is simply in the later stages of covid19 tbh.

efforts from previous experiences with epidemics had likely made shortlists of what needs to be done during epidemic. the thing was that covid19 pushed through and sustained itself despite their best, effective epidemic countermeasures.

aside from russia no other country can do what china did.

so what US needs is time and effort which its people and government can not afford to wait and do. some people demand action while the government is taking notes. back in april it was said summer was going to be a time when reopening is a possibility yet some of us took that as a certainty. now the country is in the midst of the next stage of the pandemic that neither them will accept tbh

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WashYourHands posted...

Whataboutisms

You keep using that word, I don't think you know what it means.

Pointing out hypocrisy and double standards, particularly with it comes to how different countries react to the same contextual situation ie the spread of coronavirus, is not "whataboutsm".

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Fenriswolf posted...

So the US MSM says so it must be true? May I remind you that much of the claim comes from Adrian Zenz, a Christian fundamentalist connected with the NED trying to provoke regime change. Why? Because Xinjiang is a critical part of China's Belt and Road Initiative

https://thegrayzone.com/2019/12/21/china-detaining-millions-uyghurs-problems-claims-us-ngo-researcher/
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/05/09/uygh-m09.html

Furthermore, do you remember the WMDs in Iraq which led to the destabilization of the entire region? Or the testimony of Nayirah which claimed Iraqi soldiers took Kuwaiti babies out of incubators, and only later it was discovered to be a PR hoax?

you're going off on random tangents here.

first, keep in mind, we're talking about contries handling their own population. what happened in iraq isn't relivent to how the american government handles its own citizens, you're just bringing it up to because you think it supports your point.

second.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/inside-chinese-camps-thought-detain-million-muslim-uighurs-n1062321
https://apnews.com/269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c

i'm not looking up sources for you, its simple enough to do it yourself. but even a quick google search shows you're ignoring the fact that many credible sources beyond some random christian asshole are saying the same damn things.

third.

Fenriswolf posted...

And not surprisingly, Trump is cool with it:

didn't vote for him, and he lost the popular vote so he's not even supported by the majority of the country. but beyond that, you're acting like world leaders turning away from chinese atrocity is new...

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China has a fairly advanced medical system and they instutuited some of the most stringent "social distancing" practices to try to contain the virus (remember a poster in China on Twitter saying that the apartment block he lived on had a runner who brought all the residents groceries so they wouldn't even have to leave their residence at all)
granted the numbers they were giving to the rest of the planet were of course most likely bullshit but hell here in GA we aren't even trying to test most of the populace so.....

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every country except america, brazil, and sweden have controlled the spread. Claiming false statistics of China when your own country doesn't practice social distancing is dumb

Imagine how people would react if the US government started welding peoples doors closed when the virus started like China did.

monkmith posted...

you're going off on random tangents here.

first, keep in mind, we're talking about contries handling their own population. what happened in iraq isn't relivent to how the american government handles its own citizens, you're just bringing it up to because you think it supports your point.

LMAO, says the person who randomly brought up Xinjiang when I mentioned Macau's similar law. Seeing the recent US protests and the US's history of interning its own citizens, it's more of a case of glass houses.

monkmith posted...

second.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/inside-chinese-camps-thought-detain-million-muslim-uighurs-n1062321
https://apnews.com/269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c

i'm not looking up sources for you, its simple enough to do it yourself. but even a quick google search shows you're ignoring the fact that many credible sources beyond some random christian asshole are saying the same damn things.

The first source conflates rote learning, a common feature in Chinese and other East Asian high schools, with brainwashing. LMAO

The second source, again citing Zenz, manipulates birth data and failed to indicate the fact that Han birth rates also declined in the same period. Ever heard of Occam's Razor?

https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1193454.shtml

However, they fail to mention data of the natural population growth rates of the Han-majority counties in the same period, which shows a drop from 6 per mille in 2016 to nearly zero in 2017. A small inflection appeared from 2017's nearly zero to 2.5 per mille in 2018.

Huang Wenzheng, a demographic expert, told the Global Times the decline in the natural birth rate cannot simply lead to a conclusion of a so-called "birth control campaign," as many reasons, including economic development, getting more people in higher education and decreasing fertility intention, may contribute to the result. Generally, many ethnic minorities in the world have seen their birth rates decline as their economies and education improves.

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they used communism to enforce strict quarantines
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fohstick posted...

every country except america, brazil, and sweden have controlled the spread. Claiming false statistics of China when your own country doesn't practice social distancing is dumb

a lot of Americans still have their head in the sand on how bad we as a nation have done on this shit sadly enough;

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KainFourteh posted...

Their population does as they're told.

Sad existence

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Lol paid China shill Fenris finally showed up and argued himself into a massive hole again

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I can't decide if it's hilarious or sad that a dying video game message board has Wumao.

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ssjevot posted...

I can't decide if it's hilarious or sad that a dying video game message board has Wumao.

I wonder if they pay well, probably more than my shitty retail job,

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ssjevot posted...

I can't decide if it's hilarious or sad that a dying video game message board has Wumao.

It's hilarious that you think people who dare to differ from orthodox Western liberal thought must be brainwashed and incapable of agency. Reading a few CNN articles on China does not make you more knowledgeable about the country than people who actually speak the language and live there.

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Can people in China even read CNN if they wanted to?

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Blightzkrieg posted...

Can people in China even read CNN if they wanted to?

Yes. Despite what you may think, many Chinese use VPNs both for employment and personal use. The biggest barrier is language, and on websites such as Zhihou, China's equivalent of Quora, they regularly translate foreign news articles and discuss events in the USA and elsewhere

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Most countries are not doing as bad as the USA is.

That said China is lying and have been from day one.

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WashYourHands posted...

Whataboutisms

please read my initial post. it is post 37 in this topic, and it is quoted in post 61. no one has answered the question in full.

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Highwind07 posted...

To be fair to SSjevot he did live there in China as well as Japan before IIRC.

I live in Japan, I travel to China frequently. If you post Global Times, a literal Chinese propaganda site, as a source you're a Wumao or a pawn of them. It really doesn't make much of a difference. I don't like the US, so save me your whataboutism. I don't care how shitty the US is, because I don't have family at risk of persecution there unlike China.

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Fenriswolf posted...

Yes. Despite what you may think, many Chinese use VPNs both for employment and personal use.

The fact that you think this is an excuse (particularly given how many VPNs have been blocked in China in just the past two years) is really, really pathetic

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What's a Wumao? I can hazard a guess but I'd like to know whether I'm correct or not
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Highwind07 posted...

That post above was directed at Fenrir btw I am not accusing you of anything.

Yeah mine was as well. I like that he thinks I don't know Chinese too. I will admit my spoken Mandarin is shit, but I read and write it just fine on WeChat. But no one can actually say what they really think about a number of topics on there, that's the real communication issue. One that he just wants to gloss over and pretend isn't an issue.

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Blightzkrieg posted...

The fact that you think this is an excuse (particularly given how many VPNs have been blocked in China in just the past two years) is really, really pathetic

Currently only an expensive Japanese VPN is working for my family there. Many of the ones we used to use for free do not work. A lot of people don't understand how bad it has gotten.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


The saddest part is many do it for free. Actively believe the propaganda. Like Trumpists, but replace him with Xi.


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teepan95 posted...

What's a Wumao? I can hazard a guess but I'd like to know whether I'm correct or not

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ssjevot posted...

I live in Japan, I travel to China frequently. If you post Global Times, a literal Chinese propaganda site, as a source you're a Wumao or a pawn of them. It really doesn't make much of a difference. I don't like the US, so save me your whataboutism. I don't care how shitty the US is, because I don't have family at risk of persecution there unlike China.

And how does that make you more knowledgeable about China than anyone else? How many years have you actually lived in China? If you think that Western MSM never collude with with their governments when it comes to selling war and regime change *cough*NY Times*cough*, you haven't read enough.

ssjevot posted...

Yeah mine was as well. I like that he thinks I don't know Chinese too. I will admit my spoken Mandarin is shit, but I read and write it just fine on WeChat. But no one can actually say what they really think about a number of topics on there, that's the real communication issue. One that he just wants to gloss over and pretend isn't an issue.

LMAO. Have you actually talked to the people on the streets? Whenever I go back to Beijing, people actually ask me about how life in Australia and other foreign countries are, and whether my experiences confirm or differ with what they heard on social media. The average person is quite cynical about what they heard from the media and seek to find from alternate perspectives. I can't say the same about Americans who blindly accept what CNN and Fox regurgitates to them about the rest of the world, and the buck doesn't stop with China.

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I've seen mostly cultural arguments here and not really anything biological. Is it at all possible that COVID 19 is raging much more in Western areas because those areas were not touched with various coronavirus saturation like Eastern nations were with SARS and MERS? And that Eastern inhabitants may have some form of immunity since those aforementioned viruses are closely related to C19?

If population density is a factor for spread, then a nation like India should have FAR more cases than the U.S., since they are 3x the US population (India has nearly 3x less the cases). I'm using India as an example as I'm far more inclined to believe their case reporting than China.

This is total assumption at this point, but I believe in addition to citizenry following mask policies, that Indians had some form of immunity to the disease and that's part in play of why it isn't ravaging. As someone who's been to Mumbai and Delhi, it would be very difficult to socially distance there. Those cities are dense.

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Blightzkrieg posted...

The fact that you think this is an excuse (particularly given how many VPNs have been blocked in China in just the past two years) is really, really pathetic

I don't care. You're conflating lack of access to particular media platforms with general ignorance about the world. Like I said before, reading a few internet articles does not make you more educated about a country than people with actual living experience. The average educated person in China is actually interested in learning about the rest of the world, and plenty of people ask me questions about my experiences whenever I go there. Meanwhile you Americans have unrestricted internet access yet still believe nonsense about vaccines causing development disorders but wearing a mask to prevent the spread of coronavirus is somehow evil.

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I already said I don't care about America. When I wake up tomorrow if you have anything worth saying that isn't just how bad America is I will respond. But if you can't form anything beyond "China bad, but let's not talk about that because America bad too!", I don't care.

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Fenriswolf posted...

I don't care. You're conflating lack of access to particular media platforms with general ignorance about the world. Like I said before, reading a few internet articles does not make you more educated about a country than people with actual living experience. The average educated person in China is actually interested in learning about the rest of the world, and plenty of people ask me questions about my experiences whenever I go there. Meanwhile you Americans have unrestricted internet access yet still believe nonsense about vaccines causing development disorders but wearing a mask to prevent the spread of coronavirus is somehow evil.

So why do you constantly link to internet articles as a form of counter argument?

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Highwind07 posted...

Unfortunately some Chinese Americans are buying into their propaganda as well because of the harassment that they have received from all of the Covid-19 and anti-Asian sentiment here in the States made them fortify their beliefs in their heritage.

There's more than that. Plenty of Chinese international students, many of whom were formerly non-political or pro- West liberals, return home as ardent Chinese nationalists because of the general ignorance and polarization in the Western world against Chinese people. Western society pigeonhole them as brainwashed by default and treat them not as people, but patients needing to be cured.

https://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/long-reads/article/2131738/how-chinese-overseas-students-are-learning-harsh

Like I said before, feel free to disagree with me and others who share my opinion, but stop trying to deny people of their agency by suggesting that they're brainwashed or paid. Many Chinese are nationalistic because the country transformed from an agrarian backwater into the economic power it is today, and seeing how 100 years ago China was pillaged by foreign powers, while modern China lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty, why should they feel proud?

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ssjevot posted...

I already said I don't care about America. When I wake up tomorrow if you have anything worth saying that isn't just how bad America is I will respond. But if you can't form anything beyond "China bad, but let's not talk about that because America bad too!", I don't care.

And yet you spent several posts attacking me and suggesting that I'm incapable of any personal thought without being paid, LOL.

Put it this way. China is a developing country, and unlike you and I and pretty much most of Gamefaqs who grew up in developed countries, they have their own unique social problems, like being to feed their vast population and getting out of abject poverty. 100 years ago foreign powers set their capital on fire, and throughout the rest of the 20th century they had several devastating famines. In comparison, modern China, while having things which judged from a Western perspective are problems, are less of issues for the average China. To them, having experiences social turmoil not seen in developed countries, having long term security and the capability to swiftly resolve social problems is preferable to having liberty, which itself is relative not absolute.

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Fenriswolf posted...

To them, having experiences social turmoil not seen in developed countries, having long term security and the capability to swiftly resolve social problems is preferable to having liberty, which itself is relative not absolute.

Believe it or not China has people with different opinions and values. It's not just a copy of a single person. That's why we live in Japan. We could live in China or America, but we don't, because neither of us wants to. We want to live in Japan because we can be free and safe here, unlike China or America. That many family and friends from China also want to live here is for similar reasons. Just because they aren't allowed to express their opinions on the government doesn't mean they don't have them. You sit over here refusing to address anything wrong with the Chinese government and complaining about America, yet you refuse to actually defend the government policies themselves.

Not everyone wants to lick boot and suppress their own thoughts and opinions all day. That you enjoy that doesn't mean everyone else does. When you have over a billion people you actually have a lot of different thoughts and opinions, you just aren't allowed to express them publicly. People like you always defend tyranny saying the people want it yet hate democracy because it might show otherwise. You were the ones screaming about a silent majority in Hong Kong supporting the CCP right up until their lapdogs.got trounced in the last election, so you had to give up and take their freedom away. And we have family in Hong Kong and they absolutely didn't want this and made it well known back when they actually were allowed to. Now they live in fear, due to people like you.

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they're just not doing much testing or the numbers would be way up

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