Current Events > What do you think would happen if US & China went to war?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I think it will be mostly sea and air battles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJUFACUjHMs

Either we nuke the world or we block their shitty little navy in the China Sea and starve them out.

Unless they start a war with another of their neighbors there is zero reason or point for us to get in a ground war with them, and there is zero chance they'll ever get any forces near the US.

Any ground fighting would likely be centered on Taiwan and the Phillipines.

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Doubt we will ever go to war with China, the rest of the world depends far too much on the cheap labor.

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Americans would overthrow the government because they depend on shitty cheap Chinese goods to sate their shitty consumerism tastes.

Chinese would ally Russia and invade India through Pakistan and Burma. Middle East would join them or fall to them quickly. Most of the fighting would happen in Eastern Europe, the Balkans, and Central Africa. American military would lose any war of attrition since they can not refine raw materials or manufacture replacement equipment

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Zikten posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJUFACUjHMs

Nukes will likely never be used again imo. There have been many wars since '45 between nuclear armed countries which never used nukes. The damage would be far too great and end up backfiring, especially since it is said that if 100 nukes blow up in any part of the world then the world would end.

Consciousness posted...

Nukes will likely never be used again imo. There have been many wars since '45 between nuclear armed countries which never used nukes. The damage would be far too great and end up backfiring, especially since it is said that if 100 nukes blow up in any part of the world then the world would end.

the people in control of nukes dont generally believe in what someone says

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it would be about air and naval superiority. I don't think either country could invade the other with ground troops

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josifrees posted...

Chinese would ally Russia and invade India through Pakistan and Burma. Middle East would join them or fall to them quickly. Most of the fighting would happen in Eastern Europe, the Balkans, and Central Africa. American military would lose any war of attrition since they can not refine raw materials or manufacture replacement equipment

Thats not an accurate assessment. The US would have some lag time before becoming self sufficient again, but it wouldnt be an excessive struggle. Meanwhile any potential World War is going to either start, as said, with a nuking, or will see the Middle East proverbially paved over and pretty much all shipping lanes destroyed within hours, rendering most countries unable to keep up any long war. The US however has the internal ability to stay self sufficient for a long time, and in fact it would take considerable losses before it became necessary to engage in a total war economic structure.

The US can afford to hold the world hostage if it so chose and thats without nukes. China and Russia cant.

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Ex-Kefiroth posted...

If we had beat them down in Korea 70 years ago, maybe this wouldn't be an issue.

Pretty much. Should have wiped out the CCP then.

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josifrees posted...

the people in control of nukes dont generally believe in what someone says

They don't have to. If it's a good leader, they'll care too much about retaliatory nukes against their people to use them. If it's a bad leader, they'll care too much about themselves to risk retaliation. Either way, they won't use nukes proactively.

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Consciousness posted...

Nukes will likely never be used again imo. There have been many wars since '45 between nuclear armed countries which never used nukes. The damage would be far too great and end up backfiring, especially since it is said that if 100 nukes blow up in any part of the world then the world would end.

No? What war has occurred between nuclear powers.

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If its one on one, we lose. America has done nothing but lose war after war. If we have substantial help from Japan, SK, Russia and Europe? We win, handily.

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i imagine a good chunk of SE asia would get fucked.

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CommonJoe posted...

Thats not an accurate assessment. The US would have some lag time before becoming self sufficient again, but it wouldnt be an excessive struggle. Meanwhile any potential World War is going to either start, as said, with a nuking, or will see the Middle East proverbially paved over and pretty much all shipping lanes destroyed within hours, rendering most countries unable to keep up any long war. The US however has the internal ability to stay self sufficient for a long time, and in fact it would take considerable losses before it became necessary to engage in a total war economic structure.

The US can afford to hold the world hostage if it so chose and thats without nukes. China and Russia cant.

China produces 95% of the worlds rare earth metals and the US doesnt produce any.


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monkmith posted...

i imagine a good chunk of SE asia would get fucked.

doubt it. Vietnam is the only country in SE Asia that isnt controlled by China. Singapore gonna be HK 2.0

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josifrees posted...

China produces 95% of the worlds rare earth metals and the US doesnt produce any.

US has a mine in Cali and produced 26K metric tons last year.

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ITT: Powerfully bold claims with no sources.

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The Annexation of Canada and the resource wars begin, get power armor out of it though so totally worth it.

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If one country launches a nuke you may as well end the world.

because the retaliation would have catastrophic fall out.

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Whats the war goal, whos declaring, and where is the primary theatre of operations?

Ill straight up assume no nukes are involved, or the whole thing becomes meaningless, and the answer is MAD.

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onedarksoul posted...

If its one on one, we lose. America has done nothing but lose war after war. If we have substantial help from Japan, SK, Russia and Europe? We win, handily.

Because we go to war with concepts and symbols not people, we are playing a whole diffrent game war with actual objectives is to boring and productive we won all those.

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ZeroX91 posted...

Because we go to war with concepts and symbols not people, we are playing a whole diffrent game war with actual objectives is to boring and productive we won all those.

Exactly. Rooting out terrorists and guerrilla fighters with no real achievable objective is not the same as a fight against an actual country, with a standing army/navy and cities.


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josifrees posted...

Americans would overthrow the government because they depend on shitty cheap Chinese goods to sate their shitty consumerism tastes.

Also a gigantic chunk of the national debt just evaporates.

Lets be honest, if China thought they could win a war with the US, they wouldve already at least engaged in some overt territorial moves with some of our Pacific island landholdings.

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buddhamonster posted...

Exactly. Rooting out terrorists and guerrilla fighters with no real achievable objective is not the same as a fight against an actual country, with a standing army/navy and cities.

Not to mention that in Afghanistan and Vietnam we were unwilling to commit to a proper occupation.

Clearing out fighters doesn't mean much if you just leave afterwords.

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SK8T3R215 posted...

US has a mine in Cali and produced 26K metric tons last year.

which is a drop in the bucket in terms of demand

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/05/25/china-trump-trade-supply-chain-rare-earth-minerals-mining-pandemic-tensions/

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josifrees posted...

which is a drop in the bucket in terms of demand

https://tinyurl.com/y8oec5na

this has been a known issue for a decade, and companies in the US have been working to fix it.

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I think we'd see a bunch of crazy shit that both nations have been developing for fifty years. Apparently America has some kind of shrink ray that's like an autokill because your body goes into shock at the weight loss. There were videos of it being tested in Iraq. Also cloaking devices and shit. China apparently has things that can make your computer explode remotely. Imagine the opening stages of the war, every device in the US connected to the internet going BOOM. Or at the very least becoming spy machines.

Pretty much how we imagine war going? It won't be like that. We're at the same kind of precipice that they were in before WW1. Nobody REALLY knows what it's going to be like for these dudes to go all out.

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Cowthief posted...

I think we'd see a bunch of crazy shit that both nations have been developing for fifty years. Apparently America has some kind of shrink ray that's like an autokill because your body goes into shock at the weight loss. There were videos of it being tested in Iraq. Also cloaking devices and shit. China apparently has things that can make your computer explode remotely. Imagine the opening stages of the war, every device in the US connected to the internet going BOOM. Or at the very least becoming spy machines.

Pretty much how we imagine war going? It won't be like that. We're at the same kind of precipice that they were in before WW1. Nobody REALLY knows what it's going to be like for these dudes to go all out.

this is why no one wants to fight japan. godzilla and super sentai kill squads.

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wars are literally impossible in todays time

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JBaLLEN66 posted...

wars are literally impossible in todays time

people thought that about WW1 too before it all collapsed

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Cowthief posted...

people thought that about WW1 too before it all collapsed

economies werent globally connected back then and super powers bordered each other by land not oceans

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We got no allies. Trump took care of that.

north Korea, Venezuela, Cuba, Iran and maybe even Russia would team up with China.

There would be a draft and all of the second amendment patriots would mysteriously get considered not fit for war and wed send young minority kids to war.

It it would SUCK and we would lose

monkmith posted...

https://tinyurl.com/y8oec5na

this has been a known issue for a decade, and companies in the US have been working to fix it.

lmao if they cant fix it in a decade of normal conditions how they supposed to fix it in the midst of war? It is a national security issue that should be dealt with in reality with state ownership instead of some shitty ass tax breaks for private companies

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josifrees posted...

lmao if they cant fix it in a decade of normal conditions how they supposed to fix it in the midst of war? It is a national security issue that should be dealt with in reality with state ownership instead of some shitty ass tax breaks for private companies

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https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/education/whatischemistry/landmarks/syntheticrubber.html

you're acting like something like this hasn't happened before. and unlike with rubber, all that would be needed is money and manpower to get mining up to snuff.

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josifrees posted...

lmao if they cant fix it in a decade of normal conditions how they supposed to fix it in the midst of war? It is a national security issue that should be dealt with in reality with state ownership instead of some shitty ass tax breaks for private companies

The thing about warfare on the scale this would be is that thats actually exactly the type of thing to kick things into high gear, innovate, and generally get shit done.

And if all else fails, you can always attempt to seize it from your enemies or exploit third parties for them.

Just look at WW1 and 2 as prime examples of this. When push comes to shove, countries have ways of getting resources that may have otherwise been unavailable to them.


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monkmith posted...

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https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/education/whatischemistry/landmarks/syntheticrubber.html

you're acting like something like this hasn't happened before. and unlike with rubber, all that would be needed is money and manpower to get mining up to snuff.

Thanks for making my point for me! The only reason the US was able to manufacture synthetic rubber is because we had the petrochemicals to do it. Whereas, Japan, lacking in these petrochemicals had to go invade SE Asia to secure natural rubber. In the context of this thread and REE the US are the Japanese and the Chinese are the ones with the raw materials to manufacture the things they need

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buddhamonster posted...

The thing about warfare on the scale this would be is that thats actually exactly the type of thing to kick things into high gear, innovate, and generally get shit done.

And if all else fails, you can always attempt to seize it from your enemies or exploit third parties for them.

Just look at WW1 and 2 as prime examples of this. When push comes to shove, countries have ways of getting resources that may have otherwise been unavailable to them.

the difference is the place with the resources and infrastructure is the homeland of the people we are fighting against. By the time we secure Chinese REE the war would have to be won and the mines would have bombed to oblivion.

we are also talking about elements not compounds. Creating compounds and substitutes is a lot easier than creating elements.

finally, after the introduction of the military industrial complex, the time of waiting around for a war to innovate was over. The US military has been innovating constantly since WWII. If they could innovate their way out of REE they would have by now.

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I didn't realise this until now but China's 500 million people are elderly and therefore would not be fit to fight.
https://youtu.be/Us8uW-ZKK2s

TomNook20 posted...

No? What war has occurred between nuclear powers.

Israel never used nukes, nor did Iran or India-Pakistan

josifrees posted...

Thanks for making my point for me! The only reason the US was able to manufacture synthetic rubber is because we had the petrochemicals to do it. Whereas, Japan, lacking in these petrochemicals had to go invade SE Asia to secure natural rubber. In the context of this thread and REE the US are the Japanese and the Chinese are the ones with the raw materials to manufacture the things they need

so you're just ignoring the article i poster, that literally showed a brand new mine that's opened and digging up all those minerals now?

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Americans are outnumbered, 60% of them are fat, and a great deal of young people hold strong anti-war sentiments.

I'm sorry to say, but I don't believe victory for the US would be possible.

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monkmith posted...

so you're just ignoring the article i poster, that literally showed a brand new mine that's opened and digging up all those minerals now?

construction isnt slated to begin until next year and they wont be able to extract until 2023.

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josifrees posted...

construction isnt slated to begin until next year and they wont be able to extract until 2023.

So? If the war started today, they could speed track that, and actually get production out of the mines much sooner.

Yea, I'm not denying that it'd be a major concern if war were to break out, but to suggest that peace time plans for production would remain the same after a declaration of war by one of the largest countries to ever exist is a little insane.

If there was war tomorrow, it would not take them until 2023 to get the mines up and running...

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its a national security issue, it shouldnt be in the hands of private individuals and should have been fast tracked already. Whose to say that the US even ends up with these materials? Not even mentioning that having all your eggs in one basket isnt sound strategically. All its gonna take is one well-executed attack.

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