Board 8 > Board 8 Match of the Week - Week 1 [wrestling]

(+) Yeah! (+)

Hi and welcome to my latest brainchild which I think I can probably dedicate at least 10 weeks to before burning out! Doing the Greatest Wrestler Ever deal here motivated me to want to do more wrestling based content here, and I thought this was a nice way to share a digestible amount of wrestling with not just the usual wrestling topic posters (not that we ever share wrestling in there anyway!) but also some of the wider board who showed up for some of the Greatest Wrestler topic.

In this particular endeavour, I'm being joined by two users with an unrivalled passion for and knowledge of great wrestling - @NBIceman and @Bidoof. Every week the three of us will each choose a wrestling match, with links for everyone to watch along, and throughout the week we'll have chance for everyone to watch and share their thoughts before voting on a favourite. Some weeks there will be a theme to the matches, and some weeks we'll just go no limits.

I hope anyone with any interest in wrestling can jump in and find something to enjoy along the way, whether it be a wrestler you already loved, had never heard of before or anywhere in between. I think it's pretty self explanatory so rather than talk anymore i'm going to hand it off to Bidoof and Iceman to throw out their first matches

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Match 1 - Fandango vs Chris Jericho- Wrestlemania 32

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Banned
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I've been summoned. Guess I should put something up here.

Bidoof's Match Recommendation (Week 1)

Akira Tozawa & Shingo Takagi (c) vs. Eita & T-Hawk for the Open the Twin Gate Championship
Dragon Gate, 15th Anniversary Kobe Festival, July 20, 2014
Match Link: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x44y7e8

Let's start this with a match that I thought got overlooked during the year it happened and has been forgotten over time. In a promotion that always seems to deliver when it comes to tag team action, this match still stands out in my mind as one of the best Dragon Gate put out in the last decade. You have two established pillars of Dragon Gate in Shingo and Tozawa taking on two men who were being groomed to be the future of the company. While I don't think I ever saw what they did in T-Hawk, this match really got me onboard with Eita (who finally won the Open the Dream Gate Championship last month). I hope you guys enjoy this match as much as I do and I look forward to seeing what everyone has to say about it.

I like the format Bidoof just came up with so I'm stealing it.

Iceman's Match Recommendation (Week 1)

Roderick Strong vs. Zack Sabre Jr.
EVOLVE, EVOLVE 45 - July 10, 2015
Match Link: https://www.bilibili.com/video/av19712863/

These two wrestled a few times in 2015, and while they were all fantastic matches, two of them took place in PWG and had a completely different dynamic, laden with story and emotion and animosity because Strong was playing a fairly long-reigning shitbird heel champion there at the time and Sabre was the most popular act in the promotion.

This match was, on the other hand, thrown together at literally the final hour. Another talent booked on the show had travel issues, so the whole card had to be reconfigured. This bout had no feud, no story, not even any real stakes. It was just two great wrestlers trying to decide who was better. And ordinarily, that would tend to be a bad thing. But in this case, what all those missing pieces actually did was give them freedom. Without any confines, they could literally just do whatever they wanted.

And what they did was to put together one of the smoothest and cleanest matches I've ever seen, in the conversation as one of the best indie offerings of all time. Roddy Strong has spent his entire career being the most unassumingly incredible wrestler in the world - unbelievably consistent but never flashy or popular enough to be widely thought of as one of the greats, 2015 was his magnum opus, and outings like this made him my personal pick for 2015 Wrestler of the Year. Zack, for his part, was smack in the middle of his big breakout period - he won his first Wrestling Observer award for Best Technical Wrestler the year prior and has picked up five more since. All of those considerable talents were on display here between two consummate professionals who knew exactly how to play to each other's strengths and build a match with all the brutal beauty that makes up pro wrestling.

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NBIceman posted...

I like the format Bidoof just came up with so I'm stealing it.

Iceman's Match Recommendation (Week 1)

Roderick Strong vs. Zack Sabre Jr.
EVOLVE, EVOLVE 45 - July 10, 2015
Match Link: https://www.bilibili.com/video/av19712863/

These two wrestled a few times in 2015, and while they were all fantastic matches, two of them took place in PWG and had a completely different dynamic, laden with story and emotion and animosity because Strong was playing a fairly long-reigning shitbird heel champion there at the time and Sabre was the most popular act in the promotion.

I've been meaning to watch this for a while so thanks for the reason!

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Steiner's Match Recommendation (Week 1)

WALTER vs. Timothy Thatcher
Progress, Chapter 62 - January 28th, 2018
Link: https://www.bilibili.com/video/av19282140/

Obviously I have to throw some European flavour in there, and after the past few months especially in Brit Wres it's certainly nice to be reminded that some of the best wrestlers to come over here aren't certified pedophiles or abusers - for my money, this is the greatest match in Progress history, and serves as a reminder of how great they can be. For those of you who don't know, Thatcher and WALTER are regular tag team partners as Ringkampf, but at this point WALTER is the Atlas (over 200lb) champion and Thatcher earns this title match here on Chapter 62 and with gold on the line, these two go at each other in one of the stiffest, hardest hitting matches ever contested on European soil. Matches like this especially go a long way to explain why Timo is so beloved in Europe, compared to his EVOLVE work in the States.

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I'm going to be a bit unorthodox and start with Steiner's pick since I've been meaning to see what Tim Thatcher can do when he's not boring me to tears wrestling a rando from Catch Point in the middle of EVOLVE shows.

Steiner posted...

Steiner's Match Recommendation (Week 1)

WALTER vs. Timothy Thatcher
Progress, Chapter 62 - January 28th, 2018
Link: https://www.bilibili.com/video/av19282140/

I know in your write-up you said this match helps show why Tim has gotten over in Europe but, to me, the star of this match was 100% WALTER. Not going to lie, when this opened with a grapple sequence, I immediately started getting flashbacks to Thatcher's reign in EVOLVE. Sequences of technically proficient mat wrestling with slick transitions but very little of what makes professional wrestling what it is. Tim's at least got more than one face now but he still ends up working most of this match with a blank expression. It's so difficult for me to get into him because he does so little to get me engaged outside of the aforementioned great grappling and slugging the guy with some nice forearms.

WALTER, however, was the man. What Thatcher lacked in terms of projecting a personality, WALTER had in spades. You could see a story being told from his body language, his expressions of frustration and pain, and his selling in particular for his hand was incredible. Thatcher was hitting just as hard with his strikes as WALTER, but it's WALTER's mannerisms that really help put his stuff over the top. I feel like, if anything, this match shows why one man has been built as the guy wherever he's gone and the other is usually only talked about purely as a good technician. You can be the most gifted ring technician in the world but it only gets you so much. You have have to offer more and Thatcher still seems to struggle at doing that.

To sum up this post of just my immediate thoughts, this didn't really change my opinions on Thatcher as a performer. He's still about where I've always seen him. But this performance from WALTER is another piece of evidence for why he might be the best wrestler in Europe. Very good match.

holy crap it's bidoof

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i told you it would be

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I, like Bidoof, have never been impressed by Thatcher. He's not Just Another Guy by virtue of his mat skills...but he's close as far as I'm concerned.

So that leads me to steiners match first and yes....this is like Thatcher trying to have his typical boring match and WALTER forcing him to do otherwise which makes WALTER look like a bad ass. Even as Thatcher is clearly interesting him, WALTER is doing the match's storytelling. This is man vs obstacle here and while Tim plays the role of obstacle well....I dunno he feels like just an interchangeable cog.

Overall a number of just incredible sequences here as WALTERs starpower drags Tim to easily the best match of his that I've seen. Overall this probably goes in the notebook but a truly great match needs two great characters and this only had one.


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Bidoof posted...

I've been summoned. Guess I should put something up here.

<u>Bidoof's Match Recommendation (Week 1)</u>

Akira Tozawa & Shingo Takagi (c) vs. Eita & T-Hawk for the Open the Twin Gate Championship
Dragon Gate, 15th Anniversary Kobe Festival, July 20, 2014
Match Link: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x44y7e8

Let's start this with a match that I thought got overlooked during the year it happened and has been forgotten over time. In a promotion that always seems to deliver when it comes to tag team action, this match still stands out in my mind as one of the best Dragon Gate put out in the last decade. You have two established pillars of Dragon Gate in Shingo and Tozawa taking on two men who were being groomed to be the future of the company. While I don't think I ever saw what they did in T-Hawk, this match really got me onboard with Eita (who finally won the Open the Dream Gate Championship last month). I hope you guys enjoy this match as much as I do and I look forward to seeing what everyone has to say about it.

well, this was fucking awesome. but kind of similar to your thoughts on Walter vs Thatcher, this mostly served to reinforce what I already knew - Shingo Takagi is one of the best of all time. All of the highlights of this match were shingo based to me, with a few of them coming from the wonderful relationship between him and Tozawa. The communication between tags, Tozawa shouting up at Shingo when Shingo is laid out on the ramp, the hug after a double dive - these are the Best Friends but like, actually kicking ass. And then the traditional hot Dragon Gate closing stretch, highlighted by first the struggle to land the Made in Japan, and then when it's finally hit the 1 count kick out had me losing my mind. Great start to this, 4.5 from me
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NBIceman posted...

I like the format Bidoof just came up with so I'm stealing it.

Iceman's Match Recommendation (Week 1)

Roderick Strong vs. Zack Sabre Jr.
EVOLVE, EVOLVE 45 - July 10, 2015
Match Link: https://www.bilibili.com/video/av19712863/

These two wrestled a few times in 2015, and while they were all fantastic matches, two of them took place in PWG and had a completely different dynamic, laden with story and emotion and animosity because Strong was playing a fairly long-reigning shitbird heel champion there at the time and Sabre was the most popular act in the promotion.

This match was, on the other hand, thrown together at literally the final hour. Another talent booked on the show had travel issues, so the whole card had to be reconfigured. This bout had no feud, no story, not even any real stakes. It was just two great wrestlers trying to decide who was better. And ordinarily, that would tend to be a bad thing. But in this case, what all those missing pieces actually did was give them freedom. Without any confines, they could literally just do whatever they wanted.

And what they did was to put together one of the smoothest and cleanest matches I've ever seen, in the conversation as one of the best indie offerings of all time. Roddy Strong has spent his entire career being the most unassumingly incredible wrestler in the world - unbelievably consistent but never flashy or popular enough to be widely thought of as one of the greats, 2015 was his magnum opus, and outings like this made him my personal pick for 2015 Wrestler of the Year. Zack, for his part, was smack in the middle of his big breakout period - he won his first Wrestling Observer award for Best Technical Wrestler the year prior and has picked up five more since. All of those considerable talents were on display here between two consummate professionals who knew exactly how to play to each other's strengths and build a match with all the brutal beauty that makes up pro wrestling.

This was very very clean and well worked. It's no real secret that I don't really like face ZSJ and dont think Roddy is anything all that special. (Roddy, like Timo, really approaches that "I wouldn't miss them if they stopped wrestling tomorrow" line).

But this was very well done. It felt like the sort of house show exhibition you get from the WWE sorts who are desperately trying to get noticed and break out from the pack. Both guys just experimenting in the ring in front of us with that very mid 90s Mysterio sort of feel.

This felt to me very much like a ZSJ match, but in a good way and with an opponent that was game for matching him move for move. Ultimately this was just an exhibition match but it was very good for what it was. 3.5

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Interesting concept! I'll try to watch these matches over the weekend.

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NBIceman posted...

I like the format Bidoof just came up with so I'm stealing it.

Iceman's Match Recommendation (Week 1)

Roderick Strong vs. Zack Sabre Jr.
EVOLVE, EVOLVE 45 - July 10, 2015
Match Link: https://www.bilibili.com/video/av19712863/

These two wrestled a few times in 2015, and while they were all fantastic matches, two of them took place in PWG and had a completely different dynamic, laden with story and emotion and animosity because Strong was playing a fairly long-reigning shitbird heel champion there at the time and Sabre was the most popular act in the promotion.

This match was, on the other hand, thrown together at literally the final hour. Another talent booked on the show had travel issues, so the whole card had to be reconfigured. This bout had no feud, no story, not even any real stakes. It was just two great wrestlers trying to decide who was better. And ordinarily, that would tend to be a bad thing. But in this case, what all those missing pieces actually did was give them freedom. Without any confines, they could literally just do whatever they wanted.

And what they did was to put together one of the smoothest and cleanest matches I've ever seen, in the conversation as one of the best indie offerings of all time. Roddy Strong has spent his entire career being the most unassumingly incredible wrestler in the world - unbelievably consistent but never flashy or popular enough to be widely thought of as one of the greats, 2015 was his magnum opus, and outings like this made him my personal pick for 2015 Wrestler of the Year. Zack, for his part, was smack in the middle of his big breakout period - he won his first Wrestling Observer award for Best Technical Wrestler the year prior and has picked up five more since. All of those considerable talents were on display here between two consummate professionals who knew exactly how to play to each other's strengths and build a match with all the brutal beauty that makes up pro wrestling.

well, after re-reading this writeup after watching the match, I feel like I should watch their PWG matches - as I felt this suffered from a lack of a story. it was certainly smooth and clean, and they did a lot of 'cool' stuff but I never found myself really engaged with the match. I don't really have much more to say, around 3.5 probably

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Similar to how Eddv echoed my feelings on WALTER/Thatcher, I'm going to somewhat agree with his thoughts on Roddy/ZSJ. Both men aren't exactly "Mr. Personality" themselves, especially at this point. Zack doesn't really have the fire to be a captivating babyface but Roddy. . . I don't know. He's not exactly a font of charisma either but all the things he does and how hard he goes helps hide it more than Zack and Thatcher's style.

As for the match itself, this is probably the best you could get for a match thrown together at the last minute. Both men are definitely working this match like they know someone from WWE or NJPW is watching. Roderick, in particular, looks like he's trying so hard to rise above the good indy worker rep he'd had for almost a decade by that point. For an exhibition, I thought it was a damn good showcase for both men and I'd probably put it at around 3.75-4 snowflakes. Definitely liked it more than Thatcher/WALTER if only because both men felt like they were contributing to this match being great.

Eddv posted...

This is man vs obstacle here and while Tim plays the role of obstacle well....I dunno he feels like just an interchangeable cog.

The story of a man meeting that seemingly insurmountable obstacle isn't a new one and it can be done well under the right conditions (Omega/Okada in the G1 where Kenny needs the win to make the finals, most of Vader's best matches) but I never really bought Tim as being that for WALTER. He didn't have the physicality to really sell me as being someone who was going to outstrike him nor did the structure of the match make me feel that WALTER was just hopeless in a grapple war with Thatcher (which I can't say bothered me too much since Tim's grapplefests have never been captivating in the past).

Steiner posted...

well, this was f***ing awesome. but kind of similar to your thoughts on Walter vs Thatcher, this mostly served to reinforce what I already knew - Shingo Takagi is one of the best of all time. All of the highlights of this match were shingo based to me, with a few of them coming from the wonderful relationship between him and Tozawa. The communication between tags, Tozawa shouting up at Shingo when Shingo is laid out on the ramp, the hug after a double dive - these are the Best Friends but like, actually kicking ass. And then the traditional hot Dragon Gate closing stretch, highlighted by first the struggle to land the Made in Japan, and then when it's finally hit the 1 count kick out had me losing my mind. Great start to this, 4.5 from me

Shingo, indeed, is amazing but I'm happy to see that Tozawa gets his credit. That Twin Gate run with Shingo and Tozawa was excellent because of how close they were and that relationship is a big part of what makes certain events in Dragon Gate so much more compelling down the road. I don't want to give too much away there because there's some stuff later that I might put up for later weeks.

But as good as Tozawa and Takagi were, I think Eita and T-Hawk went out to show that they could hang. There's a lot of fantastic spots to this match, but I'm still blown away by Eita's moonsault to the floor as T-Hawk had Takagi up in the electric chair position.

bumpo

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Dragon Gate Tag
I've always loved tag wrestling, and Dragon Gate's always managed to do it better than most. I agree with Bidoof that this match does seem to have been unfortunately forgotten, and a lot of that probably has to do with the talent on the challenger side. The thing about this match is that it was really a big step in the coming out parties of T-Hawk and Eita, but, well... T-Hawk just never really caught on despite the considerable effort put into him - he had to leave DG to become awesome - and Eita, depending on who you ask, has only recently found his legs with RED or still hasn't at all.

They were damn good here, though. The Millenials era, for my money, has been the best run for either guy in the company. They were still new, felt exciting, and always put in a hell of a lot of effort. Shingo and Tozawa still feel like the stars, because of course they do, but part of that is because the youngsters do such a great job of helping them come off that way. Steiner mentioned the 1-count kickout, and yeah, a well-placed one of those will always pop me just like it did the live crowd. Heh. Remember those?

I will say that I never really felt like this match did enough to differentiate itself from the laundry list of great DG tags to be truly memorable, but that's less an indictment here and more of a testament to the consistent quality of the Twin Gate division. And it's not like it feels out of place among all those examples, either, which is a hell of a compliment in itself.

I wasn't tracking my star ratings when this match happened so I don't remember what I'd have given it, and rarely do I give retroactive ratings, but I can guarantee it would've gone in the spreadsheet for me at 4+ and it definitely still holds up today.

WALTER/Thatcher
I'd have to think a bit to determine whether I agree with Steiner about this being PROGRESS's best match ever, but it's a strong contender. It was a top 15 match of 2018 for me at 4.75 stars, which is saying something considering I had an Iceman all-time high seven matches at the full five that year.

The word "brutal" gets thrown around a lot in wrestling, and while I wouldn't go so far as to say it's often undeserved, I do think that when you put some of those thusly-described matches against this one, you'll see a clear difference. In concert with my previously mentioned love for tag wrestling, I've always loved partners facing each other, especially when it's presented like this. No animosity - just so much respect that they know they can't give anything less than their best shot.

I've never been as down on Thatcher's stateside work as many (that doesn't mean I wanted to see his long EVOLVE reign any more than anyone else, mind), but there's an obvious difference when you see him in Europe, and it's on full display here. He always gives the impression of a guy who'd be called a film junkie in other sports, coming into his matches with a dedicated game plan and executing it to perfection. WALTER does a great job playing off that, selling limb work the way it always should be done - his hand isn't completely useless and he doesn't ignore it, either; it's just less effective.

Both guys really bring it here, and there's some awesome spots that I still remembered perfectly prior to my rewatch that will continue to stick with me after now. The backdrop countered into a lariat, the stomps to the head, the chop to the face... They're all expertly placed and do a great job tying this match into its violent little bow. Fantastic stuff and it deserves all the praise it's ever gotten.

Oh yeah, by the way, I'd forgotten how terrible PROGRESS commentary was, so that was a fun reminder as well.

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You are NOT WRONG about that commentary
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NBIceman posted...

Dragon Gate Tag
I've always loved tag wrestling, and Dragon Gate's always managed to do it better than most. I agree with Bidoof that this match does seem to have been unfortunately forgotten, and a lot of that probably has to do with the talent on the challenger side. The thing about this match is that it was really a big step in the coming out parties of T-Hawk and Eita, but, well... T-Hawk just never really caught on despite the considerable effort put into him - he had to leave DG to become awesome - and Eita, depending on who you ask, has only recently found his legs with RED or still hasn't at all.

They were damn good here, though. The Millenials era, for my money, has been the best run for either guy in the company.

I never really got why DG was so laser-focused on T-Hawk. I always felt he was a good tag guy (and a good Naoki Tanisaki for those who remember that), but his singles matches were always such a drag. Like, if this guy was really the big ace of the company, then two guys as talented as Masato Yoshino and YAMATO should have been able to get so much more out of their matches with him. I don't even know what's been the big change between then and now where in a pre-COVID world he was really getting some attention.

As for Eita, I think the company's focus on T-Hawk and somewhat Kotoka had him coming up short. He had that really bizarre couple of weeks where he joined VerserK and then got kicked out. Then in Over Generation, what I saw in him with The Millennials just kind of vanished. He also has the unfortunate blemish of ANTIAS to him but I think everything has been coming together for him in R.E.D.

Oh, and if there's concern over shitty commentary then maybe I should hold off on some PWG recommendations. <_<

Bidoof posted...

I don't even know what's been the big change between then and now where in a pre-COVID world he was really getting some attention.

it was stronghearts, right?

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I love that in the first week, we got 3 very different kind of matches. We got hard-hitting match technical match, and fast-paced Japanese junior match.

First, Strong vs ZSJ is a very good match between two very good wrestlers but I'm afraid that that's all it got. I don't know much background stories for all three matches but this match is the only one that I don't really get into. The moves might be crisp but the match really lacks story-telling, I don't know much from the match except that Strong was a heel and ZSJ was a face. There was a stretch that I kinda felt bored and at the finish I just thought that's it. I'll give it a 3.75.

Unlike what Bidoof said, I think Thatcher was not just there in the WALTER vs Thatcher match. Don't get me wrong, I think WALTER was the star between those two but Thatcher hold his own weight in that matchup. His mannerism really sold the idea that this was a match between two very close friends that knew each other quite well and planned his strategy accordingly. However, I think that there were more rooms for improvement. The fact that it was pretty clear that there was almost no chance that Thatcher would win took away some excitement for me. I think it deserved a little better than the first match and give it a 4.

The DG tag match was awesome. Shingo and Tozawa were almost perfect in this match. You can clearly see the relationship between those two like Steiner pointed out: the hug, the shouting. Eita and T-Hawk, while might not be polished yet, showed that they had great potential in their future. I know that the standard in DG tag match is quite high and this match was a great showcase to show that. This match is a clear winner for me this week with a 4.5.

I actually like PWG commentary. Unless you're talking about the early days, I guess.

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