Current Events > Daisy Ridley confirms impeccable planning of the Star Wars ST story

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://youtu.be/hN74bOubUug

even without watching I can tell that's one of those videos where they intercut "He was a good friend" with the scene of him hacking Anakin's limbs off

"I HATCHYOO!"

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sLaCkEr408___RJ posted...

A big issue was how the Sequel Trilogy felt very corporate. It didn't help when Disney announced how the ST wouldn't use George Lucas' story outline. I don't see any long time fans denying inconsistencies from OT to PT.

I think the sequel trilogy feels a mite less corporate than almost every other billion dollar franchise today. Certainly less so than the Marvel, DC and Disney live action remakes. Mandalorian and the side story films feel decidedly more manufactured, but still less like consumer products than Marvel or "Live Action" CGI Lion King.

BruceWayneJr posted...

Sigh. Okay, what in the prequels completely contradicts things we're told in the original movies? Tell me how Qui-Gon, midichlorians, and Leia remembering her mommy destroyed Star Wars.

Well, first of all, none of this destroys Star Wars. That's how nutty fans think.

I'd say the major ones are Anakin and Obi Wan's non-friendship, the Jedi Knights being portrayed as a bunch of lame, dysfunctional aristocratic cops, and Yoda being a dumbass. I can't imagine that anybody who watched the original trilogy as kids wanted to see those things, either.

AvantgardeAClue posted...

So either you hate both the PT and ST and be labeled as one of the "doesn't actually like Star Wars despite calling themselves a fan" people or only hate the ST and get deemed as "doesn't understand Star Wars"

Y'all love your catch-22s I see

If you say so.

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IShall_Run_Amok posted...

I'd say the major ones are Anakin and Obi Wan's non-friendship, the Jedi Knights being portrayed as a bunch of lame, dysfunctional aristocratic cops, and Yoda being a dumbass. I can't imagine that anybody who watched the original trilogy as kids wanted to see those things, either.

Sure. Anakin spent about a minute with Obi in TPM, then during his awkward teenage years when he's at odds with all of the Jedi, he clashes with Obi in AOTC. Obi-Wan is an adult, and recognizes that Anakin is an adolescent, so it doesn't contradict with.... Anakin and Obi being friends in ROTS. A lot of criticism seems to be about Obi and Ani being friends in Episode 3 when they were at odds in the previous film. Those people don't understand what's happening in these movies, and those people don't recognize that Obi-Wan is trying to protect Luke from the truth about Anakin as well as give the guy more credit than he may have deserved.

Buddy, the Jedi were stale white guys and a muppet in the OT. Your expectations of what you thought they were in their heyday is not the fault of the story. Most fans expected the Jedi to be perfect superheroes in the prequels when that isn't at all the story being told. The Jedi being failures is an inverse of the Empire in the OT; the dominating power structure is always flawed in Star Wars.

"Yoda being a dumbass" is too vacuous to even tackle. I know you won't take any of this shit to heart, but there is more than one (Red Letter Media) way to read Star Wars.

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monkmith posted...

you ignore the padme/anakin train-wreck and the prequels were pretty nice.

lmao fuck no

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monkmith posted...

you ignore the padme/anakin train-wreck and the prequels were pretty nice.

If nothing else, the prequel trilogy kept the spirit of the originals. By no means do I think they were well made, but they were actually pretty fun to watch.

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HylianFox posted...

even without watching I can tell that's one of those videos where they intercut "He was a good friend" with the scene of him hacking Anakin's limbs off

"I HATCHYOO!"

Those are so cringey. If you wanna respect the tone of the scene, leave out the fucking I hatechu

There were several different plans for the ST

1. Original George Lucas outline. It was thrown out, which is what got GL so pissed.

2. JJ ST with GL helping. It was thrown out when they threw GL out.

3. JJ's ST. JJ had done rough draft scripts for the entire trilogy. TFA was made but the rest was thrown out because JJ changed his mind on doing 8 and 9 for whatever reason. They changed TFA's ending to fit in line with TLJ, where Luke originally was still connected to the Force.

4. After TLJ was supposed to be Colin Trevorrow's Duel of the Fates. That was thrown out 3-4 months before TLJ was even released. JJ returning for 9 was also announced the next day.

I think they should have just gotten JJ to do all 3. It's still unclear what caused him to leave after accepting the job for all 3.

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monkmith posted...

great lightsaber fights, great battle sequences, actual jedi. hell, the phantom menace has one of the best, if not the best, lightsaber fight in any of the movies.

i will never understand this defense of the prequel movies. Like, if they were video games or shounen anime or whatever the fuck? fine, saved by the fight scenes. But movies need more than just action scenes because they have a lot more time to fill and a focused story to tell,

the prequels are filled with incredibly wooden acting, ill-defined characters, some of the most overwrought awkward dialogue ive ever heard in my life, and endless amounts of bizarre nonsense plotholes. the vast majority of people aren't going to be distracted enough by the flashy lights and three billion flips in the action sequences to not realize that

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Lysandear posted...

Those are so cringey. If you wanna respect the tone of the scene, leave out the fucking I hatechu

You both are talking about a video that you obviously haven't seen

ultimate reaver posted...

But movies need more than just action scenes because they have a lot more time to fill and a focused story to tell,

Well for the most part the story of the Prequels weren't bad. There were some dumb things like midichlorians and such but they didn't really impact the overall story which was fine. The movies were bad because the delivery of the story was bad and the details of how it all plays out like hopping muppet Yoda was dumb.

This isn't the case with the sequels. In the sequels the story is also bad on top of the shit acting and flanderization of characters through the script writing. And JJ's extreme lack of awareness when it comes to space didn't help.

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sLaCkEr408___RJ posted...

You both are talking about a video that you obviously haven't seen

im not talking about your video i was specifically responding to that guy's post

BruceWayneJr posted...

Sure. Anakin spent about a minute with Obi in TPM, then during his awkward teenage years when he's at odds with all of the Jedi, he clashes with Obi in AOTC. Obi-Wan is an adult, and recognizes that Anakin is an adolescent, so it doesn't contradict with.... Anakin and Obi being friends in ROTS. A lot of criticism seems to be about Obi and Ani being friends in Episode 3 when they were at odds in the previous film. Those people don't understand what's happening in these movies, and those people don't recognize that Obi-Wan is trying to protect Luke from the truth about Anakin as well as give the guy more credit than he may have deserved.

He wasn't just trying to protect Luke from the truth, he was also fondly reminiscing on the times he spent with Anakin. Who was also, of course, a completely different person at the time. But for Obi Wan not to be a telling an enormous straight up lie to Luke, A.) they have to actually have been good friends, while the prequels portray their relationship as strained in both 2 and 3, and B.) Anakin's transformation into Vader has to be so inexplicably violent that Obi Wan sees Vader as a different person, and this was also not the case. Thus, a contradiction. Not a movie killer by any means, but bigger than any of the things people complain about in the sequels.

BruceWayneJr posted...

Buddy, the Jedi were stale white guys and a muppet in the OT. Your expectations of what you thought they were in their heyday is not the fault of the story. Most fans expected the Jedi to be perfect superheroes in the prequels when that isn't at all the story being told. The Jedi being failures is an inverse of the Empire in the OT; the dominating power structure is always flawed in Star Wars.

It's still a contradiction for the Jedi to be portrayed and recalled as the enlightened monk defenders of peace in the galaxy in one film, only to be revealed to have been decidedly not that in the prequels, regardless of my expectations. At no point in the original trilogy were the Jedi portrayed as the bad guys; they hadn't thought of that yet. Thus, a contradiction.

BruceWayneJr posted...

"Yoda being a dumbass" is too vacuous to even tackle. I know you won't take any of this s*** to heart, but there is more than one (Red Letter Media) way to read Star Wars

K.

Yoda still sucked and was an idiot.

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I'm starting to think that maybe JJ didn't have much of a draft to work on and just set up his typical mystery boxes like he usually does guys.

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Darmik posted...

I'm starting to think that maybe JJ didn't have much of a draft to work on and just set up his typical mystery boxes like he usually does guys.

If there is a "JJ draft", I very much doubt it's anything substantial (or interesting). I'd be interested in seeing it leak though, just to confirm it.

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Blightzkrieg posted...

If there is a "JJ draft", I very much doubt it's anything substantial (or interesting). I'd be interested in seeing it leak though, just to confirm it.

It was probably the OT with some names replaced and switched around

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IShall_Run_Amok posted...

Yoda still sucked and was an idiot.

I love Star Wars, so I've been thinking about it.

In the original trilogy, Palpatine underestimated Vader's attachment to Luke.

In the prequel trilogy, Yoda underestimated Anakin's attachment to Padme.

That might be on a level that you can't process, but try.

IShall_Run_Amok posted...

It's still a contradiction for the Jedi to be portrayed and recalled as the enlightened monk defenders of peace in the galaxy in one film, only to be revealed to have been decidedly not that in the prequels

How the hell were the Jedi knights indebted to the Republic, to a degree that is DESTRUCTIVE TO THEMSELVES, not a direct riff off of "enlightened monk defenders of peace in the galaxy"? I don't see the contradiction. The monk defenders fucked up. The Crusade knights were blind to certain shit. That's the story.

As for the Vader stuff, Obi-Wan is a liar. He tells half-truths. Period. It's not either/or, saint or sinner. Palpatine told Anakin half-truths as well, and he's a fuckface. There are parallels at work here, and they seem to be beyond you. Try to think back to the PT movies that you wrote off along with Youtube. In AOTC, the Jedi denied that Count Dooku could possibly be in league with the Sith. Their loyalty to the man blinded them to the basic truth. The Jedi are religious zealots that cannot imagine their students and "brothers" could ever join the other side. The truth is damn-near unthinkable, like a Christian joining the Taliban. Again, Obi-Wan is protecting Anakin's reputation, just like the Jedi were eager to protect Dooku in the beginning of AOTC.

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Darmik posted...

I'm starting to think that maybe JJ didn't have much of a draft to work on and just set up his typical mystery boxes like he usually does guys.

even so, the next guy either

a) shouldnt have thrown them out completely
b) should have had threads to follow in the event that he threw out all the prior movie's stuff

Lysandear posted...

even so, the next guy either

a) shouldnt have thrown them out completely
b) should have had threads to follow in the event that he threw out all the prior movie's stuff

Those threads likely only lead to the crap we got in Episode 9 anyway. Main difference is that maybe Rey would be related to Luke or Obi-Wan instead. Which JJ probably still hadn't decided if this story is anything to go by.

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i disagree

This should have been obvious to everyone, also a fun fact the Lego Force Awakens games have additional dialogue which seems to point at Kylo Ren knowing who Rey is, which is suggested in the film at a few points.

I hope that didn't mean Obi-Wan would have had children, I really don't like the idea of him being romantically involved with anyone, but he does have dialogue in Force Awakens referring to her by name.

IShall_Run_Amok posted...

It's still a contradiction for the Jedi to be portrayed and recalled as the enlightened monk defenders of peace in the galaxy in one film, only to be revealed to have been decidedly not that in the prequels, regardless of my expectations. At no point in the original trilogy were the Jedi portrayed as the bad guys; they hadn't thought of that yet. Thus, a contradiction.

So you heard Obi-Wan say "guardians of Peace and Justice for the Republic" and thought they were supposed to be what exactly?

And Obi-Wan and Yoda were totally wrong about Vader and Luke proved he was not beyond redemption.

I know this is probably a dead thread, but I'd like to point out that the prequel trilogy is clearly a post-modern sequel to the original. It examines and criticizes the elements of the base product. That's difficult for general audiences, who expect more of the same akin to the original. Lucas took the opportunity to flip the original product on its head, show that there are holes in democracy and religion, and present a challenge to the old school fans of Star Wars. They bristled at a layered product at the same way they embrace Dwayne Johnson movies. Lucas asked the audience to evolve, and they declined.

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BruceWayneJr posted...

I know this is probably a dead thread, but I'd like to point out that the prequel trilogy is clearly a post-modern sequel to the original. It examines and criticizes the elements of the base product. That's difficult for general audiences, who expect more of the same akin to the original. Lucas took the opportunity to flip the original product on its head, show that there are holes in democracy and religion, and present a challenge to the old school fans of Star Wars. They bristled at a layered product at the same way they embrace Dwayne Johnson movies. Lucas asked the audience to evolve, and they declined.

Are you sure you're not talking about The Last Jedi

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Darmik posted...

Are you sure you're not talking about The Last Jedi

Nah. The Last Jedi attempted to present a point that Lucas had already made in the prequels. Johnson spelled out what was subtext for the prequels. He made it basic while Lucas was trying to present it artfully. Johnson, Disney, and the general audience had underestimated the point that Lucas already made with the prequels. He didn't point explicit fingers like Johnson did; he wanted us to connect the dots for ourselves. Johnson took an elusive point and made it explicit. Lucas tried to be submersive and failed, Jonhson piggybacks on it and gets credit from fairweather fans.

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MorbidFaithless posted...

It's really sad Disney doesn't seem to care about Star Wars. I guess as long as they make money, they're happy.

This. a lot of hollywood movies are basically to try and make money from places like China since they are the biggest market these days. Remember their promotional posters literally put Finn in the background looking like some extra. They probably cut down his role from what it was supposed to be because they thought keeping him as a main character would make chinese audiences lose interest

I'm laughing so hard seeing posters come in here and try to get all deep about the Prequels. "Oh, you just have to realize George Lucas wanted to take the Original Trilogy and flip it upside down. It's post-modern"

No, it's crap with Jar Jar Binx lmao

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LikeImmolation posted...

I'm laughing so hard seeing posters come in here and try to get all deep about the Prequels. "Oh, you just have to realize George Lucas wanted to take the Original Trilogy and flip it upside down. It's post-modern"

No, it's crap with Jar Jar Binx lmao

Same. Old. Shit. Ignore everything that was said, cling to dumb shit. Try to be serious? Or act like this is Hillary versus Trump lmao

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honestly. i never understood the hate for the prequels. but then again i was like 12 when they came out and found them fun none the less.

i guess its a boomer/gen-x meme. im guessing its like how children today watching the sequels wouldnt think much of it and will enjoy it regardless.

that said. why yall trying to think too deeply into what is essentially a childrens franchise lmao

toyota posted...

honestly. i never understood the hate for the prequels. but then again i was like 12 when they came out and found them fun none the less.

i guess its a boomer/gen-x meme. im guessing its like how children today watching the sequels wouldnt think much of it and will enjoy it regardless.

that said. why yall trying to think too deeply into what is essentially a childrens franchise lmao

Sure, Lucas understands that children are his audience. Like Willow, and Howard the Duck, and Indiana Jones. He's trying to slip in messages, and he's only half successful. Whenever it comes to western religion and philosophy, he gets resistance. The Tuskeegee airmen movie? No recognition. When he challenges the social structure, he gets prequel freakouts. When he makes basic appeals to religion, he makes the OT a classic for all time.

Introspection is the hardest thing for human beings. Artists like Lucas ask us to do it, and we fail every time.

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BruceWayneJr posted...

I love Star Wars, so I've been thinking about it.

In the original trilogy, Palpatine underestimated Vader's attachment to Luke.

In the prequel trilogy, Yoda underestimated Anakin's attachment to Padme.

That might be on a level that you can't process, but try.

It actually makes perfect sense, and it's kind of interesting, thematically speaking. But it doesn't dispute what I said. Yoda being a moron still contradicts the original trilogy, where Yoda was a wise and sage like creature living in mud. This is far more jarring, on or beneath the surface, than what happens to any of the characters between the originals and the sequels. It also doesn't make up for all the other ways in which the prequels are such poor movies, but that wasn't the point i was making.

BruceWayneJr posted...

How the hell were the Jedi knights indebted to the Republic, to a degree that is DESTRUCTIVE TO THEMSELVES, not a direct riff off of "enlightened monk defenders of peace in the galaxy"? I don't see the contradiction. The monk defenders f***ed up. The Crusade knights were blind to certain s***. That's the story.

The Jedi were not portrayed as fuck ups in the original trilogy; they were decidedly portrayed as the losers of an unspecified conflict and the victims of a slaughter. The prequels got the slaughter down, in the sense that it was an event that happened, but nothing in the originals suggests that the Jedi failed because of their own hubris. This is because Obi Wan and Yoda were retroactively portrayed as being more deceptive and dishonest narrators. The natural fallout of this is The Last Jedi, where Luke also discovers that the Jedi were not the coolest kids in school, and it feeds his despair.

Again, this isn't a bad thing. Its a perfectly valid story to tell. It just, again, glaringly contradicts and retcons elements in the originals so a different story can be told. Which is fine.

As for the Vader stuff, Obi-Wan is a liar. He tells half-truths. Period. It's not either/or, saint or sinner. Palpatine told Anakin half-truths as well, and he's a f***face. There are parallels at work here, and they seem to be beyond you.

No, it makes perfect sense. You're not telling me anything I don't know. Cool thematic stuff and all. Obi Wan being a complete liar is just a retcon of the original movies, where he only really half lied to Luke, and, yet again, more jarringly so than what happens in the sequels. Also, again, and I really feel this must be stressed, this is all stuff that doesn't make the movies bad.

Try to think back to the PT movies that you wrote off along with Youtube.

I actually wrote off YouTube in an entirely separate incident, waka waka waka.

In AOTC, the Jedi denied that Count Dooku could possibly be in league with the Sith. Their loyalty to the man blinded them to the basic truth. The Jedi are religious zealots that cannot imagine their students and "brothers" could ever join the other side. The truth is damn-near unthinkable, like a Christian joining the Taliban. Again, Obi-Wan is protecting Anakin's reputation, just like the Jedi were eager to protect Dooku in the beginning of AOTC.

Alright. And I still say this is more glaring a retcon than what happens in the sequels. And all the other things I said before. You're not telling me something I don't know.

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revenge of the sith is first rate space opera i will not budge

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If George intended the PT to be a deep critique on the OT and not a hodgepodge for both kids and adults, I am just not feeling it. He MAY have been going for that, but he did not have the will or the skill to pull it off. And on top of that, he was surrounded by company men and women who gave him little to no push back on any of the extravagances in these movies. Episodes 2 and 3 are a loud mess. And not just noises. They look loud in the worst way.

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The sequel trilogy was written like Dude, Where's My Car? It's just a series of random adventures loosely linked together with some sort of end goal in mind but the journey doesn't really matter or make much sense.

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"Somehow Palpatine has returned" is literally a line in the movie

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for what it's worth, I still haven't actually seen TROS and don't plan to

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It's almost as if JJ Abrams is a very very very bad writer.

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SSJGrimReaper posted...

"Somehow Palpatine has returned" is literally a line in the movie

i thought this was an in-joke til i looked it up on youtube

that's hilarious

Without a doubt Disney is going to retcon and reboot the Sequel Trilogy in the next few decades

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InfinityMonster posted...

There were several different plans for the ST

1. Original George Lucas outline. It was thrown out, which is what got GL so pissed.

2. JJ ST with GL helping. It was thrown out when they threw GL out.

3. JJ's ST. JJ had done rough draft scripts for the entire trilogy. TFA was made but the rest was thrown out because JJ changed his mind on doing 8 and 9 for whatever reason. They changed TFA's ending to fit in line with TLJ, where Luke originally was still connected to the Force.

4. After TLJ was supposed to be Colin Trevorrow's Duel of the Fates. That was thrown out 3-4 months before TLJ was even released. JJ returning for 9 was also announced the next day.

I think they should have just gotten JJ to do all 3. It's still unclear what caused him to leave after accepting the job for all 3.

No, JJ is a hack, him doing all three would've been just as much of a disaster if not more.

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Damn_Underscore posted...

Without a doubt Disney is going to retcon and reboot the Sequel Trilogy in the next few decades

The OT actors would all be dead. There's no point.

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Darmik posted...

The OT actors would all be dead. There's no point.

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Darmik posted...

The OT actors would all be dead. There's no point.

They'll CGI them like they did with Tarkin

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Nacen posted...

They'll CGI them like they did with Tarkin

Well hopefully I'll be dead by then too

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Can't believe how this multi billion trilogy had no story backbone planned before they went ahead.

Least they could do was keep the same director. Instead we got them trying to out do each other and fuck it all up.

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Lysandear posted...

I wanna say this is an exaggeration but so many people on CE who hated TLJ or lost interest in SW as a result turned around and said they would watch Rise just to "enjoy the shitshow" or w/e

Like why reward the studio for that? I didn't see Rise and haven't given a dime to SW since TLJ

as one of those people, I was already two movies deep into this thing. I just wanted to see the ending for myself.

now that thats over with, every ounce of Star Wars curiosity or excitement has been drained out of my psyche. Still havent bothered with Solo or the Mandalorian, and Im not at all interested in this sort of oldish Republic space Viking thing theyre planning. Idk what the franchise would have to do to get me to check it out again lol

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i watched the mandalorian cuz i was so thirsty for a show. it was good except when it resembled star wars

Nacen posted...

They'll CGI them like they did with Tarkin

As long as *I AM* dead, I'm cool with it.

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Nacen posted...

They'll CGI them like they did with Tarkin

this is what I've been saying in regards to Black Panther 2

do you really think 21st century Hollywood is gonna let something trivial like death keep them from putting actors in movies?

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SSJGrimReaper posted...

"Somehow Palpatine has returned" is literally a line in the movie

That's nothing compares to all the times Maz Kanata shows up to explain the movie, which themselves are nothing compared to her last appearance. What a howler.

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SSJGrimReaper posted...

"Somehow Palpatine has returned" is literally a line in the movie

lol

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