Current Events > Super Mario 3D All Stars leaked. All the games are emulated.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Did people really expect these to be remakes?

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HylianFox posted...

Did people really expect these to be remakes?

I expected a little effort beyond just emulation

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Tyranthraxus posted...

That's literally impossible as real hardware does not have tools to assist. (Well unless you're doing something like speedrunning SMB1 on Switch or using a hacked console)

TAS files are just a list of what buttons you press at what moment.
So while creating the TAS run on real hardware is pretty much impossible, it is possible to take the finished TAS run and transfer it into real button presses on real hardware.
https://youtu.be/jI1b1rOrURg

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I expected at least 60 FPS and some improvements at the very least similar to OoT 3D.

As it stands, outside Galaxy, the other two look and run like shit. Nintendo giving us the bare minimum as usual nowadays.

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MC_BatCommander posted...

I expected a little effort beyond just emulation

And Galaxy is both ported and emulated, which is a little effort beyond just emulation.

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Conflict posted...

You do know games get ported to different systems literally all the time right

With no emulators

it's never completely accurate when you port it. there is always gonna be some kind of difference, even if small

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pojr posted...

it's never completely accurate when you port it. there is always gonna be some kind of difference, even if small

Emulators are almost never 100% accurate either.

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pojr posted...

it's never completely accurate when you port it. there is always gonna be some kind of difference, even if small

Hmmm

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Most other companies, when porting or making collections put more stuff in. Let alone ensure some semblance of QA. Like challenges, achievements, etc. Bonus content to sweeten the deal. Even Nintendo occasionally does. This is kind of sad being such big titles and their mascot/flagship.

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Still gonna enjoy it myself, haters gonna hate and some probably dont even have a switch and still complaining.

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People keep bringing up and comparing this to other compilation titles like they're also Super fucking Mario. They're not. This is three stellar games in one package that don't really need updated to still be enjoyed. The limited purchase window is shitty but otherwise there's really no reason to complain.
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Imagine if hackers got ahold of Nintendo's internally developed emulatorware. To this day tech enthusiasts still can't figure out the hackerproof N64 to develop 100% perfect emulation.

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Propane4Sale posted...

Imagine if hackers got ahold of Nintendo's internally developed emulatorware. To this day tech enthusiasts still can't figure out the hackerproof N64 to develop 100% perfect emulation.

I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo's own emulators aren't any better than what's already out there tbh.

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I don't care about the collection being emulated. I care that they're sitting on Nintendo 64, Gamecube and Wii emulators on the Switch and doing nothing with them. Just like Sony and their PS1 and PSP emulators.

MC_BatCommander posted...

Emulators are almost never 100% accurate either.

Nintendo are pretty anal about their games being accurate.

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Darmik posted...

I don't care about the collection being emulated. I care that they're sitting on Nintendo 64, Gamecube and Wii emulators on the Switch and doing nothing with them. Just like Sony and their PS1 and PSP emulators.

Nintendo are pretty anal about their games being accurate.

2 gens ago maybe

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REMercsChamp posted...

Other people: Play game and enjoy it
CE: Rages over minute technical details

welcome to the internet

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I'm not technically savy on these type of things, why is it a bad thing the games are emulated?

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voldothegr8 posted...

People keep bringing up and comparing this to other compilation titles like they're also Super fucking Mario. They're not. This is three stellar games in one package that don't really need updated to still be enjoyed. The limited purchase window is shitty but otherwise there's really no reason to complain.

You didn't read why people are mad. They aren't mad because they are getting Mario. They are mad because instead of getting a port, which is something they can do since they own the source code for the game, they are instead choosing to emulate the game. What's the difference? I use Megaman X as a prime example since its the one that usually has emulation problems. On the regular cartridge everything plays fine. With emulation there is a noticeable slowdown if too many things are on the screen at once, as well as obvious input lag(meaning the time it takes for you to press a button and the action to display on screen. So you could press the jump button and it won't immediately jump, there will be a slight delay. No big deal right? Wrong. You could end up losing fights because the button didn't register that you pressed it.

Every time an emulation takes place, the program isn't running naturally off the current hardware. It's attempts to run the hardware as if it was made back when the game was released. It's very CPU intensive. Because you essentially having 2 programs run at the same time. So instead of running 2 things(OS and Game), like a brand new game, your running 3 programs(OS, Game and program to make the game think your computer is far worse than it actually is.

So Mario 64 running natively could run at a smooth 60 frames per second. It being emulated could drop that down to 25 or even 20 frames a second. AKA noticeable lag.

Irony posted...

2 gens ago maybe

I dunno they didn't put the SNES emulator on OG 3DS because the framerates wouldn't be as accurate or solid. I don't remember any issues with their emulators outside of dumb stuff like only selling 50hz ROMS in Europe and putting the brightness down in N64 games so they didn't cause seizures. The team behind the Mario collection emulators did the emulators for the Mini consoles so they're pretty solid.

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Not opengl neat.

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Ivany2008 posted...

You didn't read why people are mad. They aren't mad because they are getting Mario. They are mad because instead of getting a port, which is something they can do since they own the source code for the game, they are instead choosing to emulate the game. What's the difference? I use Megaman X as a prime example since its the one that usually has emulation problems. On the regular cartridge everything plays fine. With emulation there is a noticeable slowdown if too many things are on the screen at once, as well as obvious input lag(meaning the time it takes for you to press a button and the action to display on screen. So you could press the jump button and it won't immediately jump, there will be a slight delay. No big deal right? Wrong. You could end up losing fights because the button didn't register that you pressed it.

Every time an emulation takes place, the program isn't running naturally off the current hardware. It's attempts to run the hardware as if it was made back when the game was released. It's very CPU intensive. Because you essentially having 2 programs run at the same time. So instead of running 2 things(OS and Game), like a brand new game, your running 3 programs(OS, Game and program to make the game think your computer is far worse than it actually is.

So Mario 64 running natively could run at a smooth 60 frames per second. It being emulated could drop that down to 25 or even 20 frames a second. AKA noticeable lag.

If that ends up being the case then it's perfectly acceptable for people to complain. That hasn't happened yet though. It could run great on their emulator.
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CyricZ posted...

Exactly. Like, what did you think would happen?

Probably for it to get the Ocarina of Time 3D treatment.

Esrac posted...

Probably for it to get the Ocarina of Time 3D treatment.

Then it wouldn't be a collection of three games.

I honestly don't know why were people were expecting anything more than barebones port when it was going to be a collection. It's Nintendo. If it was a remake it would just be Mario 64 for $60.

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Darmik posted...

I dunno they didn't put the SNES emulator on OG 3DS because the framerates wouldn't be as accurate or solid. I don't remember any issues with their emulators outside of dumb stuff like only selling 50hz ROMS in Europe and putting the brightness down in N64 games so they didn't cause seizures. The team behind the Mario collection emulators did the emulators for the Mini consoles so they're pretty solid.

The SNES games on 3DS also lack stuff like save states and sleep mode. They can also only be played on new 3DS. Modders got all that shit on the regular 3DS. Nintendo kinda suck at emulation

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Irony posted...

The SNES games on 3DS also lack stuff like save states and sleep mode. They can also only be played on new 3DS. Modders got all that shit on the regular 3DS. Nintendo kinda suck at emulation

That has nothing to do with accurate emulation. I'm just talking about how the games themselves perform. Modders got the regular 3DS SNES games working but that doesn't mean they were working at their accurate framerates. That's the kinda shit Nintendo cares about.

Enhanced and improved emulation? Yeah Nintendo suck. Improving the resolution is about as good as it will get from them.

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Irony posted...

The SNES games on 3DS also lack stuff like save states and sleep mode. They can also only be played on new 3DS. Modders got all that shit on the regular 3DS. Nintendo kinda suck at emulation

People keep complaining about wanting the Virtual Console back but are too young or naive to remember how shitty it really was. The emulation quality was awful.

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Hayame Zero posted...

People keep complaining about wanting the Virtual Console back but are too young or naive to remember how shitty it really was. The emulation quality was awful.

I'd rather have VC back. This collection sucks

And the emulation wasn't completely terrible. It was the first time they rereleased MM in a working state. The Gamecube version was embarrassing

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Gwynevere posted...

No BLJ in 64, I guess no ones gonna be running it on Switch then

The PC port has been ported to Switch.

People have already been running it on Switch. Because the fans are better at it than Nintendo.
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The_Scarecrow posted...

https://twitter.com/IbDashing/status/1305830277864972298?s=20

Nintendo 64 coming to Nintendo Switch Online would be neat.

paper mario let's fucking gooooooooo

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Ivany2008 posted...

You didn't read why people are mad. They aren't mad because they are getting Mario. They are mad because instead of getting a port, which is something they can do since they own the source code for the game, they are instead choosing to emulate the game. What's the difference? I use Megaman X as a prime example since its the one that usually has emulation problems. On the regular cartridge everything plays fine. With emulation there is a noticeable slowdown if too many things are on the screen at once, as well as obvious input lag(meaning the time it takes for you to press a button and the action to display on screen. So you could press the jump button and it won't immediately jump, there will be a slight delay. No big deal right? Wrong. You could end up losing fights because the button didn't register that you pressed it.

Every time an emulation takes place, the program isn't running naturally off the current hardware. It's attempts to run the hardware as if it was made back when the game was released. It's very CPU intensive. Because you essentially having 2 programs run at the same time. So instead of running 2 things(OS and Game), like a brand new game, your running 3 programs(OS, Game and program to make the game think your computer is far worse than it actually is.

So Mario 64 running natively could run at a smooth 60 frames per second. It being emulated could drop that down to 25 or even 20 frames a second. AKA noticeable lag.

And Irony, no their not. I have the legacy bundle for 3ds and punch out plays like trash. A lot of latency. My buddy who has been speed running the game for a long time now bought the NES Classic, and between the game running like garbage and the problems with flat monitors made it impossible for him to beat Tyson.

Porting it doesnt magically solve everything, there are countless examples of ported games running worse.
And emulation means that you can fix old problems, like running the games faster or in the Nes case, remove the limit of 8 sprites per scanline to remove flickering.

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Foppe posted...

Porting it doesnt magically solve everything, there are countless examples of ported games running worse.
And emulation means that you can fix old problems, like running the games faster or in the Nes case, remove the limit of 8 sprites per scanline to remove flickering.

Of course it doesn't "magically" fix anything. But it provides an opportunity to address known bugs. And to add new content, like extra stages or collectibles or something. And to seriously upscale the assets. Etc

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The real only issue i have with this collection is the price mark and it being a limited run, everything else seems like such a minor thing to bitch about...

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scar the 1 posted...

Of course it doesn't "magically" fix anything. But it provides an opportunity to address known bugs. And to add new content, like extra stages or collectibles or something. And to seriously upscale the assets. Etc

And all that can be done with emulators as well

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Foppe posted...

And all that can be done with emulators as well

Technically yes but realistically not a chance in hell. There's no way that Nintendo would go back and do changes in the N64 code and then build the game for N64 just so they could emulate it. It kind of defeats the whole point, especially when they have a 3D Mario game for the Switch they could fork.

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There is no need in rebuilding it, you can add everything with an emulator on the fly.

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Foppe posted...

There is no need in rebuilding it, you can add everything with an emulator on the fly.

Not really sure how you would fix bugs in the logic without editing the source and rebuilding. I understand that you can add new assets to a ROM if you rebuild the content pipeline, but that's a bunch of extra work that, again, defeats the purpose of porting. And while you could upscale assets to a certain extent, you're not really going to be able to take advantage of the new technology of the Switch. Remember, both the N64 and the GCN had fixed pipeline GPUs, which kinda limits what you can "just add with an emulator on the fly" in terms of effects and visuals by a lot.
That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about, porting it let's you actually add modern tech stuff. In the end the reason why they dump the ROM and run it on an emulator is to produce this compilation as cheaply as possible. Yeah you could do a bunch of improvements to the ROM up to a point, but then you're gonna spend a bunch of hours that you could just as well spend on essentially making Mario Odyssey mods in the likeness of the old games.

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Bugfixes? IPS patches.
Graphics? Texture packs.
Adding achievements, movies, CD quality audio and fixing slowdowns in emulated Snes ROMs? Done, done, done and done.

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As long as they run well I'm still excited. Haven't played Sunshine in 20 years and never played Galaxy.

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Foppe posted...

Bugfixes? IPS patches.
Graphics? Texture packs.
Adding achievements, movies, CD quality audio and fixing slowdowns in emulated Snes ROMs? Done, done, done and done.

Ok:

1. What do you think an IPS patch is?
2. There's more to graphics than textures. Let's say you want to add a normal map to the game, but the game doesn't feature normal mapping. What then? Or maybe you want to improve other effects in the game, like water physics, reflections, and so on. Texture packs don't solve that.
3. Like I said, I'm well aware that it's possible to modify ROMs. Not sure what point you think you're making here.

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I feel like this is obvious from the get go.

I'm more pissed about the limited selling of this, which even then I wouldn't beas upset about if it wasn't for the damn gamecube game in this collection because God knows we need that consoles games to be worth a couple hundred bucks because fuck you.

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Bio1590 posted...

They really are going to release a Zelda collection in this exact same format aren't they

Imagine OoT, Ura, and MM or OoT, WW, and TP on the same cart

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a lot of people complained about the physics in SNES All Stars in the last topic about this

maybe since this is emulation, you dont have to worry about stuff like this

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pojr posted...

a lot of people complained about the physics in SNES All Stars in the last topic about this

maybe since this is emulation, you dont have to worry about stuff like this

The games on the snes all stars were remakes, not ports.

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Sunshine had spectacular water rendering for the time, too bad it's not getting updated

MC_BatCommander posted...

The games on the snes all stars were remakes, not ports.

Um he never said they weren't hence the physics should be fine in 3D all stars thing @MC_BatCommander

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There goes any interest I had for this collection lol.

Just stick to Dolphin/Cemu if you have a solid/semi-solid pc.

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So according to a couple videos I've seen, Mario 64 runs at 30 fps, Sunshine runs at about 40-45 fps and Galaxy runs at a smooth 60 fps.

Waste of money...

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It's sorta crazy that Super Mario All Stars existed.

4 remakes. 1 cart. Only one gen difference.

Nothing even close to that would happen today

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