Board 8 > Super Mario 3D All-Stars review zone

(+) Yeah! (+)

skullbone posted...

What was the first game that had a full 3D camera mapped to the right analog stick? I remember games like Kingdom Hearts on PS2 still had L2 and R2 camera rotation (although that was because the right stick moved the command menu)

Some people were trying to answer that here

https://www.reddit.com/r/truegaming/comments/47zuno/was_alien_resurrection_ps1_2000_the_first/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

Whatever the answer, it was a PS1 FPS
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Leonhart4 posted...

I mean sure but nobody is actively defending it as any kind of good.

I am

Not only is the camera not bad, but it fixes itself in certain areas to avoid you breaking the game. Mario 64 with modern camera controls would mean no one would go along the routes you're designed to go as a beginner player, because we'd all see the shortcuts immediately.

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The camera is good because the level designs are bad is a new take I haven't seen before

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Santa doesn't count

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Yes, great having to constantly turn yourself when trying to walk straight because the camera turns.

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so you....turn the camera

But anyway, yea having just done 120 stars in 64 there is nothing in that game as frustratingly slow and aggravating as getting Yoshi to that one island. Not even the red coin shine itself, just the amount of time you have to sit and wait for the stupid boats and potentially slipping off because Yoshi is so floaty and having to start over

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The only issue I had with the camera was that I couldn't turn it if there was a wall/object on the way, and so the visibility was pretty terrible at times. I got used to it, but it made some stars (like the one with the secret coins inside the pyramid) artificially painful when they were very simple. The Flying Cap was also a complete pain in the ass due to the camera, I hated every time I had to use it and I especially hated the special courses that needed it. My other complaint is that I wish they had fixed the distance tech limitation from the 64, where objects disappear with distance, but that distance is like... nothing.

I had a lot of fun, though. I did realize a lot of very lazy stars (like in Tall, Tall Mountain, about 3 stars are just "climb to the top", lol), which makes me wonder why people complained about Odyssey's throwaway moons. You could probably get all stars in 64 super quick if they didn't kick you out of the levels and make you redo the same thing over and over.

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Surskit posted...

The only issue I had with the camera was that I couldn't turn it if there was a wall/object on the way, and so the visibility was pretty terrible at times. I got used to it, but it made some stars (like the one with the secret coins inside the pyramid) artificially painful when they were very simple. My other complaint is that I wish they had fixed the distance tech limitation from the 64, where objects disappear with distance, but that distance is like... nothing.

I had a lot of fun, though. I did realize a lot of very lazy stars (like in Tall, Tall Mountain, about 3 stars are just "climb to the top", lol), which makes me wonder why people complained about Odyssey's throwaway moons. You could probably get all stars in 64 super quick if they didn't kick you out of the levels and make you redo the same thing over and over.

This I can agree on! It did dawn on me while going through Big Boo's Haunt like "wow 3 of these stars are literally just beat the big Boo" which I still enjoy doing, just funny to see that they technically copy and pasted a bunch in slight variations. And yea the draw distance limitation can be annoying at times.

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I feel like Sunshine was worse about cheap repeat stars because how many times do we need to fight the same bosses

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hey fun thing I found out, if you get on the last boat before the island too early, as it's making its turn back to the island you can slide off into the water! Awesome!

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I don't think I've ever been this angry at a star in a Mario game, from getting to it to the actual challenge itself. This is absolutely awful.

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Bane_Of_Despair posted...

so you....turn the camera

Not even always possible, but it was in response to that it fixes itself, which is absolutely not necessarily what it does.

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https://kotaku.com/lets-debate-the-merits-of-super-mario-sunshine-1845215692

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Let's not

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At this point, I think you should just do the underwater walk glitch to get to the lily pad level.
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Everyone talks about Mario 64 speedrunning, but never Sunshine speedrunning

https://youtu.be/oGn_M26-4F4

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i just watched that speedrun after beating sunshine. i do enjoy sunshine speedrunning, its the best part of the game!

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Basically all Mario games are enjoyable on that account.

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Today I sprayed a random part of the beach in Delfino Plaza and got a shine that I never knew about. There were no context clues whatsoever to spray this spot...until after you already start spraying it.

good ol' Mario Sunshine

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Pretty sure you can hear shines when you're near them.

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that shine isnt in the open, though, so there isnt any sound

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I've played super mario 64 so many times and this was the day I learned that the only way to make the water raise to the proper level in wet dry world is to jump high into the painting.

Did they change this for super mario 64 ds? I got 150 stars in that game multiple times (I usually just do 70 stars on 64)

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pjbasis posted...

Pretty sure you can hear shines when you're near them.

Yeah no. When I said no context clues I meant it. You literally spray a random part of the beach. There is no sound.

This is a shine though and the blue coins are infinitely worse. The first level has one where you spray a fucking tree. Amidst a group of identical trees.

who knew bombing random walls in the original LoZ would go on to capture the minds of game developers everywhere

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hey did you know that the clockwork's speed in Tick Tock Clock is determined by what time it is when you enter

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MawiIe posted...

I've played super mario 64 so many times and this was the day I learned that the only way to make the water raise to the proper level in wet dry world is to jump high into the painting.

Did they change this for super mario 64 ds? I got 150 stars in that game multiple times (I usually just do 70 stars on 64)

I'm not sure, but the cannon is there, so you don't actually ever need it, it just saves you a a bit of time.

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StartTheMachine posted...

who knew bombing random walls in the original LoZ would go on to capture the minds of game developers everywhere

Its the same guy!
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ctesjbuvf posted...

I'm not sure, but the cannon is there, so you don't actually ever need it, it just saves you a a bit of time.

you can't open the cannon without the top level of water though.

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Need to get back to Mario 64. I got to 40 stars then Genshin Impact came out and I havent gone back to Mario since oops. The camera in 64 still annoys me even 40 stars in

Jakyl25 posted...

Its the same guy!

Oh yeah, good point! I think of Shiggy as more of a Nintendo overseer and less of a game director now, but Sunshine is definitely him at the helm. When did that shift happen for Mario anyway? Like what level of involvement did he have in Odyssey? Besides obviously being able to call the shots and if he wants it, he gets it.

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man do i really have to run back, check the map, and talk to the luma that moves prankster comets every time i do a purple comet? they all disappear after i do one each time. pretty sure i did all 240 stars last time i played galaxy and i dont remember this being so annoying

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StartTheMachine posted...

Oh yeah, good point! I think of Shiggy as more of a Nintendo overseer and less of a game director now, but Sunshine is definitely him at the helm. When did that shift happen for Mario anyway? Like what level of involvement did he have in Odyssey? Besides obviously being able to call the shots and if he wants it, he gets it.

The last game that was fully his vision with him as director was Super Mario 64

(Except for Star Fox Zero but we dont talk about that)
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Jakyl25 posted...

The last game that was fully his vision with him as director was Super Mario 64

(Except for Star Fox Zero but we dont talk about that)

Wait, for real? He hasn't directed anything since then? O.o

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Correct, just produced and supervised
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Sunshine was really Koizumi's first real crack at Mario

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KommunistKoala posted...

man do i really have to run back, check the map, and talk to the luma that moves prankster comets every time i do a purple comet? they all disappear after i do one each time. pretty sure i did all 240 stars last time i played galaxy and i dont remember this being so annoying

Hmmm I never once had to have the luma move the comet. Did you save them all for the end or something? I just did them almost every time they showed up since they disappear. But I also thought if you only have them left and no other stara, they stay there until you beat them. If I'm wrong, well that's very stupid.

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Hey but Star Fox Zero is cool

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she didnt mention purple coin comets until i beat the game and was at 99 stars or whatever.

well i should say i got every star possible (i think) before beating the game

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He also was supervising director on Star Fox Zero but not game director. My understanding is it mainly came out of those small projects he was working on. The only games he really got hands-on with in the last decade were that and Steel Diver, his main job was basically overseeing all of Nintendos software, and now hes basically the broader IP guy. His last big game was Super Mario Galaxy.

StartTheMachine posted...

Oh yeah, good point! I think of Shiggy as more of a Nintendo overseer and less of a game director now, but Sunshine is definitely him at the helm. When did that shift happen for Mario anyway? Like what level of involvement did he have in Odyssey? Besides obviously being able to call the shots and if he wants it, he gets it.

As said he stopped directing with Super Mario 64. He wasnt a director or designer for Sunshine (but he did produce it), but came back as Designer for Super Mario Galaxy. He was producer in charge of the Super Mario series until Galaxy, with Koizumi (who directed Galaxy) taking over from Galaxy 2 on. So the shift happened at either Sunshine or Galaxy 2 depending on what you mean.

Anyway, I have now beaten all three and not only is Galaxy the best of the lot, its so much better than the other two its a little bit funny.

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Bane_Of_Despair posted...

Hey but Star Fox Zero is cool

I would murder for Star Fox Zero with traditional controls.

Game was fine aside having to fight the motion controls to do what you want. And the weird gamepad-based sound choice.

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Lightning Strikes posted...

Anyway, I have now beaten all three and not only is Galaxy the best of the lot, its so much better than the other two its a little bit funny.

I hope this finally becomes the consensus now that All-Stars has gotten a ton of people to replay these games! I've only been saying this for a decade plus. 64 and Sunshine are easily the two weakest 3D Marios. Every game post-Galaxy is a masterpiece, and those first two just haven't aged that well.

And yeah, Star Fox Zero is the only game I can think of that I went from absolutely hating to loving, but I don't blame anyone for hating it. It took like 10 hours, more than an entire playthrough, to get used to the controls/GamePad gimmicks in that game, and this is in a series that has always been super accessible. I'm glad I stuck it out, but I thought the game was trash for the first couple hours.

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Galaxy 2 is the best Mario game ever made

Maybe Nintendo is banking on everyone realizing Galaxy is the best so they will buy Galaxy 2 when they sell it separately

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I'm still cleaning up (heh) the last of Sunshine and then I'll move on to playing Galaxy for the first time

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I 100%ed Sunshine for the first time ever, using a blue coin guide for the last 40 coins (because fuck wasting time not doing that). I found all the rest on my own though! Once you figure out spraying random things gets you blue coins, just start spraying everything and you'll find tons! I think there were a couple levels, like Pinna Park, I got all 30 on my own.

Really the biggest problem is not knowing what episodes to look for them in. Another small addition that would have made the game better.

The "reward" is utterly hilarious though. BotW golden poop level of trolling.

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I finally opened this and booted it up.

64, I played in '96, have 100%'d multiple times including the DS version

Sunshine, I literally never played it

Galaxy, I beat it exactly once with the minimum completion requirement

Starting off with 64, but looking forward to the others! I'm taking my time with 64 for max nostalgia, reading all the signs, talking to all the friendly NPCs, etc. For that authentic "I am 6 years old" experience.

No visitors allowed, by decree of the Big Bob-omb.

I shall never surrender my Stars, for they hold the power of the castle in their glow.

They were a gift from Bowser, the Koopa King himself, and they lie well hidden within my realm.

Not a whisper of their whereabouts shall leave my lips. Oh, all right, perhaps one hint:

Heed the Star names at the beginning of the course.

--The Big Bob-omb

Mario 64 needed a full blown remake. I am just not enjoying it much because it hasnt aged well to me.

As awesome as that would be, I'd have been satisfied with WWHD levels of touch ups. Like just to throw the idea out there

One of the biggest, easiest changes a proper Sunshine remaster could have addressed is nozzle switching. I would LOVE if you could have all four nozzles at once. I actually enjoy having to unlock all the nozzles in each level, and the game is clearly designed with that in mind. But once you unlock them for that level, it would be awesome if you just had them permanently when there.

If that breaks certain shines, just have Shadow Mario specifically steal that nozzle or something when starting that episode. At the very least, I feel like the hover nozzle should always be available. Having to lose it for rocket or turbo stinks, and therefore I never used those nozzles near as much as I would have otherwise.

little changes like that and a better camera for Mario 64 could have gone a long way

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Beat 64 with 120.

There was a time I could do this in a few hours but damn the years have been cruel to me.

Camera complaints are valid in tik tok clock, not really anywhere else.

Most challenging level was tiktok. I remember thinking rainbow cruise was hard but really it only seemed that way to my young self because theres a lot of waiting. I got the 7 stars in six tries, which literally didnt even happen on the earlier levels.

Hardest star was wigglers eight red coins, something about the wall jump you need to do was not clicking with me. I must have spent 50 lives on that star alone.

This is the playthrough where I learned that ground pounding the giant goombas gives blue coins.

Anyway its a great game, really hard to go back to moving in other video games since 64 feels so sharp and perfect.

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Imagine an actual Tiktok level in a Mario game

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beat block galaxy says hi

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swordz9 posted...

Mario 64 needed a full blown remake. I am just not enjoying it much because it hasnt aged well to me.

SM64 X 4 is a remake!

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