Current Events > About to play The Last of Us 2. Any advice? Missibles? (ongoing spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

the only enemies in the game that made me feel tense were the stalkers since they were always running around and hiding, and it was hard to catch them on listen mode

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In the end I gave on trying to sneak the Stalkers, just threw a molatov at them then used my Shotgun on all of them

Which worked but wasted bullets... Then again i don't use it for anything else so...

What's weird is I died like 5 times near the start of the game but haven't died since so either it gets easier or I was just out of practice.
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Why is every single character in this plot so fucking stupid?

It doesn't make any sense
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bump

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UnfairRepresent posted...

Pretty much as it goes on the same statement becomes more and more true: I'm really enjoying the gameplay

But the story is assbutter

And it bugs me that I bet I'm missing half the collectibles due to the dead ends.

I just started Seattle Day 3 and called it quits for the night, but I dont know if were still playing the same game or not. I think the story in this game is phenomenal, and the gameplay is even better. Its everything a sequel to the first game should be, and more. I really liked the ending of the first game and didnt think a sequel was necessary, and I was skeptical when this game was announced. But theyve shattered my doubts and expectations, Im really impressed with the way theyre taking the story & gameplay so far.

Easily my GOTY so far, but Ill finish the game first before I completely decide on that. It could easily all fall apart from here but I have faith with the way its all going so far.

DavidZ2844 posted...

I just started Seattle Day 3 and called it quits for the night, but I dont know if were still playing the same game or not. I think the story in this game is phenomenal,

But it sooooo fucking dumb

Every single character in the plot is just an idiot
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UnfairRepresent posted...

But it sooooo fucking dumb

Every single character in the plot is just an idiot

They act reasonably like humans making mistakes, especially when clouded with emotion

DavidZ2844 posted...

They act reasonably

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H47ow4_Cmk0
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How about an example then mr know it all? (only up to where I'm at, nothing after Seattle Day 2)

You can't be that much further than me and you've been saying this a long ways back in this thread, so there must be lots of notable examples

The story jumps all over the place timeline wise so I'm not sure what will be a spoiler

What's the last thing that happened to you?
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Last thing that happened to me was the flashback of Ellie forcing Joel to tell her what really happened at the hospital, and then back to modern day when Ellie and Jesse decide to go to the aquarium to find Abby/get Tommy. Stopped playing right as Ellie/Jesse left the theater they were staying at with Dina.

UnfairRepresent posted...

The story jumps all over the place timeline wise so I'm not sure what will be a spoiler

What's the last thing that happened to you?

The overwhelming bulk of the game happens over 3 days, the fuck you mean the timeline keeps jumping? There are flashback sequences but those are like 20 minutes or so.

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Makeveli_lives posted...

The overwhelming bulk of the game happens over 3 days, the fuck you mean the timeline keeps jumping? There are flashback sequences but those are like 20 minutes or so.

The flashbacks are probably exactly what hes talking about, and that makes sense to me. I got what he meant by that

DavidZ2844 posted...

Last thing that happened to me was the flashback of Ellie forcing Joel to tell her what really happened at the hospital, and then back to modern day when Ellie and Jesse decide to go to the aquarium to find Abby/get Tommy. Stopped playing right as Ellie/Jesse left the theater they were staying at with Dina.

Okay so sorry If I spoil something, I'm trying to be careful

The plot is a group of people who are pissed Joel killed their mates 4 years ago hear a rumor that Joel's brother was 850+ miles away decades ago and so they travel across a zombie infested wasteland to get there. Their military overlord boss who is a hardass is okay with this for some reason.

Then they arrive, go "man this might be difficult so let's turn back" after the journey. Abby kills Joel, they keep Tommy alive, Ellie watches and then they keep them both alive because.... "We only came to kill Joel." WTF did they think was going to happen?

Then Maria can't spare anyone from their settlement because they need to survive and they already lost Joel. But Tommy the other senior guy fucks them over and runs off by himself anyway to travel 850 miles to "get ravange!"

Then maria goes "Dah well now we lost 2 senior people what else can you do. Here you two little girls go after them too and take a horse." then let's Jesse do the same thing the next day....

Reminder here that the entire plot of TLOU1 hinged on the entire concept that a little girl traveling the zombie and hunter infested wastes of America is impossible and also stated that zombies get stronger over time so it would now be harder than ever.

But no the teeange powerpuff girls travel 850 miles on a horse, I read the journal. There was some wolves and 2 hunters. That was it.....

Oh so the future is actually piss easy to survive then....

Then the group who traveled 850+ miles to kill Joel is at war with a cult and is being picked off by Tommy. So naturally when they see Ellie and Dina they don't kill her? They tie her up to a table leg to an Austin Powers style easily escapable unsupervised activity and 1 guy pumps her for information. Then another guy goes "nah let's kill her." then they FUCKING ARGUE ABOUT IT, then Dina plummets 37 feet to the floor which apparently is fine for a pregnant lady to do

Then the guy puts his gun away and starts throttling Dina to death for literally no reason while Ellie kills him and at that point you discover they didn't even take her weapons off her, she still has them.

Then they massacre their buddies were 3 feet away but apparently didn't hear the fight 2 seconds ago. Also why the fuck does these experienced adult military types who are at war get routinely outsmarted and overpowered by little girls?

Then after establishing that a base of hardened soldiers who want to kill us are everywhere, and there are 250 zombies who want to rip our flesh off that we barely escape one and leave between us only a door.... We move literally next door. Going "Hey this building right in the middle of enemy bases and literally next door to Zombies is safe. Let's live here."

Then Dina goes "I'm pregnant BTW but didn't tell anyone LOLZ!" to which Ellie walks off? Wut? Then wanders around the theatre for no reason, turns the power on, Radio is broken. So I got back to PReggers McGee but no I'm supposed to leave her alone, go into a different room, play guitar and fall asleep?

Yeah that's how I reacted when my nearly dead girlfriend told me she was pregnant and there are zombies outside too. Don't even secure the building and spread out as unsafely as possible so communication is impossible.

Then we travel through god knows how many bases, traps and tunnels leaving nothing but dead ends behind us when Jesse turns up literally out of no where and goes "Maria let me go with a horse too LOL they must be really fucked and I've been racing for 18 hours every day so I am exhausted but even so I bested all these miltiary guys, bumped into you and now from inside the heart of their strongholds we're going to magically teleport back to the theatre without incident."

And while while we're on the subject of Jesse and Dina, she tells Dina she's immune but doesn't tell her about Joel's betrayal of the fireflies? Keeps that a secret when she asks why they wanted to kill him?

Then 14 seconds later she tells Jesse about Joel's betrayal of a fireflies but doesn't tell him she's immune. She keeps that a secret?

Why?

I'm skipping tons of stuff out just to keep the post short but in pretty much every single scene, every single character is acting in a totally irrational and stupid way doing things that make no sense and frequently being totally inconsisent.

Maria, Tommy, Ellie, Dina, Jessie, Abby, Every nutcase or Soldier we meet.

The only one who shows any kind of intelligence and consistency is Manny and the game seems to be trying to portray him as an idiot

Plus just the dialogue alone between characters is terrible. It's mumbly and boring, exchanges are pointless or awkward. Characters who were born and raised in a post zombie nightmare world inside militaryesq settings talk like 20th century high school girls if they were written by 45 year old Jewish men

This isn't good writing. It's just a precession of idiots doing totally irrational things mixed with tired tropes and cliches portrayed preteniously without being earned. There aren't even character arcs or moral choices because everything is pre-set and doesn't gel with the rest of it.

Ellie brutally ruthlessly murders 15 people in front of their friends and casually jokes/brags about it then in the next cutscene is sad and melancholy because she killed someone in self-defense who was trying to kill her and is like "Man I have to kill people in my 850+ mile horrorific murder spree revenge rampage!? I had no idea it would entail this!" and it's so stupid.

Plus why the fuck bother even trying to put "Tense" sequences or plot threads into chapters of the plot set in the past when you've already established those characters will be fine because they are bumming around in the present/future?

It's a masterclass into how to not write characters and story.

Captain Walker from Spec Ops: The Line alone has more depth than literally everyone in this story combined

It's truly trite
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Im gonna wait until Im a bit further in the game until I read all of your post, but I appreciate the effort and definitely look forward to reading it. I skimmed it and saw a couple things I didnt fully recognize so Im gonna play it on the safe side and avoid it for now.

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The worst part is it only gets worse as the plot continues lol

Gameplay is solid but....
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DavidZ2844 posted...

The flashbacks are probably exactly what hes talking about, and that makes sense to me. I got what he meant by that

Game starts with flashback, then the modern day. Then flashback and you play day 1. Then flashback as you play day 2. Then flashback and you play day 3.

Hour the fuck is that jumping all over the place?

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Your answering your own question

"The game starts with and then routinely flashes back to random points in time to tell you irrelevant stories that a competent writer would explain within the plot."

Beyond: Two Souls did the same thing and it story sucked too.

Mass Effect didn't need to cut to a flashback of Saren meeting up with Sovereign after the Therum mission set years before. Filled with near death experiences for Saren.

It's just bad writing.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

Beyond: Two Souls did the same thing and it story sucked too.

That's more adapting a non-linear style of storytelling, though that's really tough to do well.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

"The game starts with and then routinely flashes back to random points in time to tell you irrelevant stories that a competent writer would explain within the plot."

Because you keep associating them with Joel and Ellie. They aren't meant to be about them, it's about building the world.

Like in the first game the fireflies are built up to be this heroic group of noble rebels. Joel went to them for help and look what they did in the original game Joel thought they were wrong, the fireflies thought Joel was wrong. That guy who wrote on the walls joined and hated them for it because of what he did while a member. Yet fireflies in the game still think they unappreciated heroes who didn't get the time to shine.

It's a very simple and effective way of illustrating a common theme in the game in which perspective is critical to determining worth and righteousness and the greater good and all that. Everyone thinks they see the bigger picture, and everyone thinks they're the hero of their own story and everyone develops extreme tunnel vision when it comes to justifying what was done.

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The flashbacks are very relevant to the story and the characters motivations.

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BakonBitz posted...

That's more adapting a non-linear style of storytelling, though that's really tough to do well.

If you say so

They re-released Beyond: Two Souls in linear order and the story is still awful. The same would be true here.

It's not "a non linear style of storytelling" it's hack writing going "The only way I know how to insert these cliches/tropes and plotthreads into this story is to awkwardly insert them like this."

Eternal Darkness had a non-linear style of storytelling. LA. Noire did the flashbacks. You can do good non-linear story telling. This ain't it chief, this is just bad writing.

Hell the game even accidentally establishes this when Ellie opens the dinosuar book and goes "That was a great day" when pining over Joel's stuff. Then the game spends an hour breaking pace to tell you Joel and Ellie had a great day years ago.

Name 1 thing you learn plot related from the constant flashbacks that a competent writer couldn't get across in a linear story?

Not talking about the gameplay here, just the plot. There's nothing.

Darmik posted...

The flashbacks are very relevant to the story and the characters motivations.

Pity they are also badly written and contain no information that required a flashback to tell.

Left Behind was great DLC but it wouldn't have gelled if they shoved into halfway into the main game, let alone if they did it 20 times.

Makeveli_lives posted...

Like in the first game the fireflies are built up to be this heroic group of noble rebels. Joel went to them for help and look what they did in the original game Joel thought they were wrong, the fireflies thought Joel was wrong. That guy who wrote on the walls joined and hated them for it because of what he did while a member. Yet fireflies in the game still think they unappreciated heroes who didn't get the time to shine.

It's a very simple and effective way of illustrating a common theme in the game in which perspective is critical to determining worth and righteousness and the greater good and all that. Everyone thinks they see the bigger picture, and everyone thinks they're the hero of their own story and everyone develops extreme tunnel vision when it comes to justifying what was done.

It speaks volumes that your entire defense for the writing of this game is to go "Well The Last of Us 1 had better writing!"

Yes.... It did...

No one in this story thinks (or acts) like they are a hero. Hell even in the first game Joel didn't think the Fireflies were wrong. he was just a selfish evil man.

Going "Everyone in this plot is an idiot and a jerk and suffers a lot of pain" isn't good captivating writing.


It's a very simple and effective way of illustrating a common theme in the game in which perspective is critical to determining worth and righteousness and the greater good and all that. Everyone thinks they see the bigger picture, and everyone thinks they're the hero of their own story and everyone develops extreme tunnel vision when it comes to justifying what was done.

Is an apt description of the plot of Spec Ops: The Line which at 1/10th the budget and 1/4th the runtime told a much better story with much better characters.

This is just tired tropes you've heard before and grim grumbly boring people whining about their own idiotic actions while they are doing them for no real reason. It's just bad writing.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

Pity they are also badly written and contain no information that required a flashback to tell.

Ellie telling Dinah about their day trip to the museum wouldn't really have the same impact as playing it through a flashback. That goes even more so with future flashbacks.

They're needed to show Ellie's complicated feelings over Joel.

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UnfairRepresent posted...

It speaks volumes that your entire defense for the writing of this game is to go "Well The Last of Us 1 had better writing!"

I didn't say that. Hell I don't even believe that. I greatly enjoyed the first game but I'm not going to pretend it's unique or original or thought provoking. It was the standard "world has gone to shit but maybe there's hope with this child" I've seen a million times in other games, movies and TV shows. It was a well made product but it's certainly not some shining example of what a narrative can be.

UnfairRepresent posted...

No one in this story thinks (or acts) like they are a hero. Hell even in the first game Joel didn't think the Fireflies were wrong. he was just a selfish evil man.

That situation at the end of the first game was about Joel being selfish, not evil. He didn't know the ramifications of what would happen if he saved her. And your being selective with picking out the word hero and attributing it to Joel despite it being more suited towards the fireflies train of thought, instead of justified which is what I would use to describe Joel and his state of mind at the time.

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Darmik posted...

Ellie telling Dinah about their day trip to the museum wouldn't really have the same impact as playing it through a flashback.

See for one I'm not sure I agree.

But let's ignore that for now and pretend good writing doesn't exist. Okay so keep the Dino trip. What about the other 16 flashbacks?

Why cut from a climantic showdown to do 8 hours of characters you know are in no danger being hunted or near executed?

This is only one point though ,the overall factor is that the story is a badly written mess of rehashed cliches and tropes. All the flashbacks are is a shortcut for the writers to insert more cliches and tropes because they cannot think of any other ways to tell their story.

God forbid the player thinks for themselves and learns or extrapoates something. No we have to show Abby's dad having a heart of gold and being the surgeon Joel killed in detail since the player would be too dumb to figure that out if we didn't dedicate 47 minutes to showing it step by step using visual cues and dialogue stripped right out of bad 1990s movies.

"I can't think of a way to get this information across in a fun dymanic pace keeping way."
"Well let's just insert another flashback and tell don't show"

This is pre-high school level writing.

Makeveli_lives posted...

I didn't say that. Hell I don't even believe that. I greatly enjoyed the first game but I'm not going to pretend it's unique or original or thought provoking. It was the standard "world has gone to shit but maybe there's hope with this child" I've seen a million times in other games, movies and TV shows.

Agreed. And yet that standard is far far superior to the trite in this game. Which is far below standard.

That situation at the end of the first game was about Joel being selfish, not evil. He didn't know the ramifications of what would happen if he saved her.

Except he knew there would be no zombie vaccine. That's evil.

And your being selective with picking out the word hero and attributing it to Joel despite it being more suited towards the fireflies train of thought, instead of justified which is what I would use to describe Joel and his state of mind at the time.

You're the one who said hero not me. But I'm glad you agree with me and are disagreeing with your own point. No character in this is a hero and in fairness to the game, none of them claim to be.

DirkDiggles posted...

lol just got to that scene
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UnfairRepresent posted...

Why cut from a climantic showdown to do 8 hours of characters you know are in no danger being hunted.

You keep attributing it to the characters. It's not about them, it's about the world they're living in and the situation they're in.

God forbid the player thinks for themselves and learns or extrapoates something. No we have to show Abby's dad having a heart of gold and being the surgeon Joel killed in detail since the player would be too dumb to figure that out if we didn't dedicate 47 minutes to showing it step by step using visual cues and dialogue stripped right out of bad 1990s movies.

Yet you fail to extrapolate the relevant information of every single one it seems. You keep trying desperately to ignore them all unless it's about Joel and ellie and calling it useless if it isn't directly about them.

Except he knew there would be no zombie vaccine. That's evil.

He didn't know there would be no vaccine he only knew that there would be no vaccine made by those people that day in that place at that cost.

You're the one who said hero not me. But I'm glad you agree with me and are disagreeing with your own point. No character in this is a hero and in fairness to the game, none of them claim to be.

Everyone thinks they see the bigger picture , and everyone thinks they're the hero of their own story and everyone develops extreme tunnel vision when it comes to justifying what was done.

You keep insisting that I'm calling everyone a hero because I used the phrase one time to convey an idea instead of taking it logically to mean everyone is selfish because they lack the perspective to see beyond their own personal and emotional investment.

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I always thought a proper fix to the pacing and all these flashbacks would tremendously improve the story, there's too much jumping around and slog at points.
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Honestly yeah I think I'd prefer if the game was like Route A and Route B instead of that giant cut in the middle of the game.

Outside of that I'm fine with the flashbacks. Although they should be skippable for repeat playthroughs.

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Darmik posted...

Honestly yeah I think I'd prefer if the game was like Route A and Route B instead of that giant cut in the middle of the game.

Outside of that I'm fine with the flashbacks. Although they should be skippable for repeat playthroughs.

You can skip the cutscenes. Going from a to b is only like 15 minutes of time. It's not some huge undertaking

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Makeveli_lives posted...

You can skip the cutscenes. Going from a to b is only like 15 minutes of time. It's not some huge undertaking

Kinda silly to ask when a big selling point of the game is its story, whether it's good or not.

The cut at the middle of the game breaks the pacing, full stop.
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I loved the game and I thought Abby was hotaf.

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Makeveli_lives posted...

You can skip the cutscenes. Going from a to b is only like 15 minutes of time. It's not some huge undertaking

I just think it would be a cool option for people replaying the game for the combat. I can see all of the flashbacks bogging down replays. From what I remember only one of them had combat and it was still very minor.

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I love that "You can skip the cutscenes" and "Well the writing in the first game was better" are the arguments defending the terrible plot of this one

BakonBitz posted...

Kinda silly to ask when a big selling point of the game is its story, whether it's good or not.

Indeed.

RE2make (which ironically has a better story than this) gets away with a cliche silly story because it's not a story heavy game. It's a short fun one with high replay value

This is a story heavy game with long cutscenes, forced walking sections, constant flashbacks. The poor story really holds it back.

I can't imagine people in 15 years time anaylzing Jesse as a character and his themes the way they do with Maria from SH2
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UnfairRepresent posted...

I can't imagine people in 15 years time anaylzing Jesse as a character and his themes the way they do with Maria from SH2

Yeah. The characters pretty much took a hit in quality. It went from developing two characters really well because that's what the story focused on, to a wide cast of like 10+ characters that are meant to be more than side characters for a small chapter.

Though out of all the characters I think Owen's actually my favorite character.
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Yo TC (or anyone else here whos played the game) how long did it take to get to the second half of the game (playing as Abby)? Im 22 hours in and I thought I was gonna finish the game but apparently theres another 3 days left to go with Abby, if the game even ends after that. I dont think thats normal, since I dont think the average first run is supposed to be 40+ hours long.

DavidZ2844 posted...

Yo TC (or anyone else here) how long did it take to get to the second half of the game (playing as Abby)? Im 22 hours in and I thought I was gonna finish the game but apparently theres another 3 days left to go with Abby, if the game even ends after that. I dont think thats normal, since I dont think the average first run is supposed to be 40+ hours long.

My save is like 18 hours and I'm halfway through Abby ( I think) so I'm guessing you're playing slowly.

I've been searching for collectables and stealthing too
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Damn. Im also playing stealthily and searching for collectibles too, but didnt realize I was playing that ridiculously slow

Its these many large open areas that are padding the fuck out of my play time I think

DavidZ2844 posted...

Damn. Im also playing stealthily and searching for collectibles too, but didnt realize I was playing that ridiculously slow

Its these many large open areas that are padding the fuck out of my play time I think

As long as you're having fun it doesn't matter how slow you go

but yeah this game is padded to hell and back
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UnfairRepresent posted...

I love that "You can skip the cutscenes" and "Well the writing in the first game was better" are the arguments defending the terrible plot of this one

Once again you are ignoring context. My skip the cutscenes comment was directed at the one poster who wanted to replay the game for the combat and not the story.

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Lev: "I don't like dogs"

Well then Lev, I've decided I don't like you. Your mom can go die.
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tbf, the WLF use dogs to track down people, so I wouldn't be surprised if all Scars weren't at least a bit scared of them

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g0ldie posted...

tbf, the WLF use dogs to track down people, so I wouldn't be surprised if all Scars weren't at least a bit scared of them

I know. I was being facetious. I actually like that Lev is displaying some character, even though it's ludicrious that's shes 13 and yet dispatches grown adults like The Punisher.

Also this is an example of what I was talking about earlier. Lev naturally organically asks what will happen to her mom and what compartmental syndrome is, Abby answers, Lev says "How do you know all this." and she goes "I grew up around doctors."

BOOM! When I'm talking about getting story across through dialogue this is the kind of thing I mean. Imagine if they didn't have the boring flashback chapter involving her fat dad. But they did have the nightmare sequence and lines like that organically telling you about the character and their history.

The player would pick up what the game is putting down and it would have impact when their brain connects the dots.

The game spending 2 hours going THIS IS ABBYS DAD AND HE HAD A HEART OF GOLD AND HE WAS THE SURGEON JOEL KILLED AND HERE IS ABBY SEEING HIS BODY AND CRYING DO YOU GET IT PLAYER? DO YOU GET IT!? DO! YOU! GET! IT!? is hack writing like we're 9 years old.

Same with the comparisons to Ellie. "They both have peggo gf love triangles, have daddy issues, had a great day involving jumping from heights into water and animal exhibits, they both have the same sense of terrible humor and collect things etc etc"

This is about as subtle as a concrete enema. You can get the same exact point across with less time and a little nuance if you just utitize some basic level of writing and artistic skill.

Look at RDR1 and RDR2 where they never actually show you what happened during the Blackwater Massacre but you create a strong mental understanding of what did and how it effected everyone involved by how they act and talk and what you know about it.

It's a shame because the gameplay is good but this story is one of the worst I've seen in a long time because it's so bad, so long, so generic, so cliche and takes itself seriously.
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Thoughts on the museum flashback? I liked it a lot, especially the mirror scene and the one inside the space shuttle.
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LightningAce11 posted...

Thoughts on the museum flashback? I liked it a lot, especially the mirror scene and the one inside the space shuttle.

That was probably the best flashback.

It was nice (although too long) and established the idea that Joel and Ellie are now doing more than just surviving.

Not sure how much it added to the plot tho
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What they could have done imo is to start the story off with abby, see her with her dad then the aftermath where he was killed then swap to Joel with Tommy, so you're put in her shoes immediately.
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maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like the flashbacks aren't just to show the player these notable scenes in Ellie/Abby's lives, but that they're also moments that they're currently thinking back on to better reinforce their current motivations

kinda like how we might sometimes think back on a certain event in our lives to put us in a certain mood.

I get that you don't like them, and that's cool, not that's kinda how interpreted their use.

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g0ldie posted...

maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like the flashbacks aren't just to show the player these notable scenes in Ellie/Abby's lives, but that they're also moments that they're currently thinking back on to better reinforce their current motivations

kinda like how we might sometimes think back on a certain event in our lives to put us in a certain mood.

I get that you don't like them, and that's cool, not that's kinda how interpreted their use.

I think you're half right

I think they are used because the writers want to get information across to the player but don't know any other way than to directly tell them.
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yea, one of the game's themes is empathy, and since it was important to ND for the player to at least understand Ellie and Abby's headspace, they probably felt that this was the best way.

it was a bit heavy-handed, but I enjoyed it.

I do feel a better alternative could have been cutting back on the flashbacks and have Ellie jot down her feelings in her journal so that content would have been optional.

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