Board 8 > Board 8 Match of the Week - Week 3 [wrestling]

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Steiner 09/22/20 1:52:46 PM #1:	The g1 special week is over and we had three pretty spectacular matches for it, for those who didn't finish watching or getting your thoughts in they are preserved here: Last week's matches Bidoof's Match Recommendation (Week 2) Kensuke Sasaki vs. Yoshihiro Takayama NJPW, G1 Climax 2004 - August 8, 2004 Match Link: https://www.bilibili.com/s/video/BV1pz4y1d7h4 I'm sorry in advance for the quality. Get NJPW World if it really bothers you. Heck, just get NJPW World in general. Watching WALTER/Thatcher is partially the inspiration behind this pick from me. Also, I wanted to recommend something that's VERY different from last week. Instead of graceful, fast-paced junior tag action, I'm giving you a war between two of the hardest-hitting heavyweights in New Japan's history. From the opening staredown, you can feel that this match is going to be special and, by the end, you're going to be feeling it as some of the strikes from these men will be so loud that you might even begin to believe you are there. I hope everyone enjoys this gem from the company's dark ages and I look forward to seeing what Steiner and Iceman suggest this week. Iceman's Match Recommendation (Week 2) Katsuyori Shibata vs Kota Ibushi NJPW, G1 Climax 25 - July 29, 2015 Match Link: https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1Hs411W7UA?from=search&seid=16498732861684611450 NJPW World Link: https://njpwworld.com/p/s_series_00333_7_07# I had two matches in consideration for this week, and the other one was posted by Bidoof. Glad to end up with an easy decision after all! Part of me wanted to stay away from relatively recent NJPW stuff since I figure most everyone has seen it, but 2015 probably predates the point where the company really exploded with wrestling fans enough that I imagine this match is still a fresh one to at least a couple sets of eyes here. Really, it flew a little bit under the radar even when it happened - there was a lot of high-end stuff in G1 25 just like there is every year and neither competitor was ever a threat to win the block. This is the only singles match these two ever had, and though they couldn't have known that then, they sure worked like they had nothing to leave on the table for the future. It's not long, but they pack a lot in, kicking the absolute hell out of each other in the exact manner you'd expect out of the two. I mentioned in my review of WALTER/Thatcher from Week 1 that Thatcher always seems to have a particular plan. Conversely, this is two guys who never have a plan at all, at least beyond "hit the other guy until they fall down." And that's the kind of thing that makes for an awesome G1 offering. Anyway, I went 4.75 stars on this when it happened, and I can pinpoint the exact spot that kept me from the full five. I'll be curious to see if anyone else nitpicks the same spot the way I do. Steiner's Match Recommendation (Week 2) Tomohiro Ishii vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi NJPW, G1 Climax 23 - August 2, 2013 Dailymotion: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7sy1iz NJPW World: http://njpwworld.com/p/s_series_00211_1_10 Like everyone else, I did decide to travel back to somewhat before the NJPW boom - not as far as Bidoof, but slightly further than Iceman. And then I have chosen two wrestlers who everyone, by now, is intimately familiar with and expects this sort of performance from in the G1. But, in August 2013, people didn't expect this from Ishii. this is Ishii's first great New Japan match - and set the tone for the rest of the decade for him. This is a new to NJPW, underestimated, undersized Big Tom vs. Peak Powers, God King Tanahashi. And Tanahashi absolutely plays that up, working as an arrogant dickhead from the outset. Two days later Ishii would go on to have maybe my favourite match of all time, but this is wonderful setup for it that showcases two of the best workers in the G1's history, playing their roles to perfection Also, we now have a spreadsheet with all the past matches listed, it's ugly as shit right now but maybe I'll improve it in future; https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Na83P_x1zTWhHiJzjjxFOkHRiYv7zlnJtxIAQtaJ-D0/edit?usp=sharing No theme again this week so just get your shit in asap! --- Born to bear and bring to all the details of our ending To write it down for all the world to see <cite>Steiner posted [p:944945795] in Board 8 Ma... [t:78992834]...</cite> <quote>The g1 special week is over and we had three pretty spectacular matches for it, for those who didn't finish watching or getting your thoughts in they are preserved here: <quote>Last week's matches Bidoof's Match Recommendation (Week 2) Kensuke Sasaki vs. Yoshihiro Takayama NJPW, G1 Climax 2004 - August 8, 2004 Match Link: https://www.bilibili.com/s/video/BV1pz4y1d7h4 I'm sorry in advance for the quality. Get NJPW World if it really bothers you. Heck, just get NJPW World in general. Watching WALTER/Thatcher is partially the inspiration behind this pick from me. Also, I wanted to recommend something that's VERY different from last week. Instead of graceful, fast-paced junior tag action, I'm giving you a war between two of the hardest-hitting heavyweights in New Japan's history. From the opening staredown, you can feel that this match is going to be special and, by the end, you're going to be feeling it as some of the strikes from these men will be so loud that you might even begin to believe you are there. I hope everyone enjoys this gem from the company's dark ages and I look forward to seeing what Steiner and Iceman suggest this week. Iceman's Match Recommendation (Week 2) Katsuyori Shibata vs Kota Ibushi NJPW, G1 Climax 25 - July 29, 2015 Match Link: https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1Hs411W7UA?from=search&seid=16498732861684611450 NJPW World Link: https://njpwworld.com/p/s_series_00333_7_07# I had two matches in consideration for this week, and the other one was posted by Bidoof. Glad to end up with an easy decision after all! Part of me wanted to stay away from relatively recent NJPW stuff since I figure most everyone has seen it, but 2015 probably predates the point where the company really exploded with wrestling fans enough that I imagine this match is still a fresh one to at least a couple sets of eyes here. Really, it flew a little bit under the radar even when it happened - there was a lot of high-end stuff in G1 25 just like there is every year and neither competitor was ever a threat to win the block. This is the only singles match these two ever had, and though they couldn't have known that then, they sure worked like they had nothing to leave on the table for the future. It's not long, but they pack a lot in, kicking the absolute hell out of each other in the exact manner you'd expect out of the two. I mentioned in my review of WALTER/Thatcher from Week 1 that Thatcher always seems to have a particular plan. Conversely, this is two guys who never have a plan at all, at least beyond "hit the other guy until they fall down." And that's the kind of thing that makes for an awesome G1 offering. Anyway, I went 4.75 stars on this when it happened, and I can pinpoint the exact spot that kept me from the full five. I'll be curious to see if anyone else nitpicks the same spot the way I do. Steiner's Match Recommendation (Week 2) Tomohiro Ishii vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi NJPW, G1 Climax 23 - August 2, 2013 Dailymotion: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7sy1iz NJPW World: http://njpwworld.com/p/s_series_00211_1_10 Like everyone else, I did decide to travel back to somewhat before the NJPW boom - not as far as Bidoof, but slightly further than Iceman. And then I have chosen two wrestlers who everyone, by now, is intimately familiar with and expects this sort of performance from in the G1. But, in August 2013, people didn't expect this from Ishii. this is Ishii's first great New Japan match - and set the tone for the rest of the decade for him. This is a new to NJPW, underestimated, undersized Big Tom vs. Peak Powers, God King Tanahashi. And Tanahashi absolutely plays that up, working as an arrogant dickhead from the outset. Two days later Ishii would go on to have maybe my favourite match of all time, but this is wonderful setup for it that showcases two of the best workers in the G1's history, playing their roles to perfection</quote> Also, we now have a spreadsheet with all the past matches listed, it's ugly as shit right now but maybe I'll improve it in future; https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Na83P_x1zTWhHiJzjjxFOkHRiYv7zlnJtxIAQtaJ-D0/edit?usp=sharing No theme again this week so just get your shit in asap! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Steiner 09/22/20 2:17:35 PM #2:	Steiner's Match Recommendation (Week 3) Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Masanobu Fuchi & Akira Taue All Japan Pro Wrestling, April 20 1991 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaO3Y1RXofo I'll start by noting: this match is kind of long. The video is 53 minutes. In my own watchthrough of AJPW in 91, I saw the time on this 6 man tag and strongly considered skipping it. I forgot all about that a few minutes in - forget about how you feel about long wrestling matches in 2020, this is a perfect hour long drama, where each interaction between different pairs of competitors is their own story. I've been excited to recommend this match since I came up with the concept and I'm gonna have to watch it again to be able to discuss it properly here as it's probably about a year since I saw it, but boy am I excited at that prospect. Hope you all enjoy this as much as I did! --- Born to bear and bring to all the details of our ending To write it down for all the world to see <cite>Steiner posted [p:944946797] in Board 8 Ma... [t:78992834]...</cite> <quote>Steiner's Match Recommendation (Week 3) Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Masanobu Fuchi & Akira Taue All Japan Pro Wrestling, April 20 1991 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaO3Y1RXofo I'll start by noting: this match is kind of long. The video is 53 minutes. In my own watchthrough of AJPW in 91, I saw the time on this 6 man tag and strongly considered skipping it. I forgot all about that a few minutes in - forget about how you feel about long wrestling matches in 2020, this is a perfect hour long drama, where each interaction between different pairs of competitors is their own story. I've been excited to recommend this match since I came up with the concept and I'm gonna have to watch it again to be able to discuss it properly here as it's probably about a year since I saw it, but boy am I excited at that prospect. Hope you all enjoy this as much as I did! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Bidoof 09/22/20 7:54:16 PM #3:	Bidoof's Match Recommendation (Week 3) Samoa Joe (c) vs. James Gibson for the ROH Pure Championship Ring of Honor, New Frontiers - April 5, 2005 Match Link: https://www.bilibili.com/video/av82676795/ Now that we're back to no themes, I can recommend a match I was originally considering for the second week of this great experiment. And with ROH bringing back the Pure Championship with their return to running shows, it feels like a good time to showcase one of the best matches in the original run of the belt. For those unfamiliar with the Pure Championship, it was the original secondary singles title of the promotion. Unlike the IC or the US title in WWE, this belt had a specific set of rules all matches were contested under. The Code of Honor must be upheld. Each match started with a handshake between the opponents. Not really a rule unique to this belt as that was supposed to be how all Ring of Honor matches started but still worth mentioning. Wrestlers had three rope breaks in a match. After that, you could no longer break your opponent's submissions or pins on the ropes. Closed-fist punches to the face are not allowed, only slaps or chops. Should you haul off and punch your opponent in the face, you are deducted a rope break as a penalty. If you are out of rope breaks, you're disqualified. Title could change hands on a count out. The idea is that these rules would allow the wrestlers to work a different style of match and give them new tools to work into the structure. In my opinion, it was kind of a mixed bag (especially when they started having Nigel McGuinness exploit the rules for cheap finishes) but I appreciated the attempt at making something different. We'll see what happens with it this time around. Anywho, as I said before, this match is one of the strongest contests for the belt. Samoa Joe had just won the belt and was looking to establish it as equal to the world title. James Gibson joined ROH in February and was eager to show everyone that he was greater than his push in WWE. On paper, the match is already a good one but the Pure rules added another layer to their match while also not really taking anything away from it. You didn't feel like their hands were tied by the stips like what we've gotten from so many gimmick matches these days. I look forward to seeing what everyone else thinks, particularly if you've seen some of the other Pure matches from ROH. <cite>Bidoof posted [p:944960260] in Board 8 Ma... [t:78992834]...</cite> <quote>Bidoof's Match Recommendation (Week 3) Samoa Joe (c) vs. James Gibson for the ROH Pure Championship Ring of Honor, New Frontiers - April 5, 2005 Match Link: https://www.bilibili.com/video/av82676795/ Now that we're back to no themes, I can recommend a match I was originally considering for the second week of this great experiment. And with ROH bringing back the Pure Championship with their return to running shows, it feels like a good time to showcase one of the best matches in the original run of the belt. For those unfamiliar with the Pure Championship, it was the original secondary singles title of the promotion. Unlike the IC or the US title in WWE, this belt had a specific set of rules all matches were contested under. The Code of Honor must be upheld. Each match started with a handshake between the opponents. Not really a rule unique to this belt as that was supposed to be how all Ring of Honor matches started but still worth mentioning.Wrestlers had three rope breaks in a match. After that, you could no longer break your opponent's submissions or pins on the ropes.Closed-fist punches to the face are not allowed, only slaps or chops. Should you haul off and punch your opponent in the face, you are deducted a rope break as a penalty. If you are out of rope breaks, you're disqualified.Title could change hands on a count out.The idea is that these rules would allow the wrestlers to work a different style of match and give them new tools to work into the structure. In my opinion, it was kind of a mixed bag (especially when they started having Nigel McGuinness exploit the rules for cheap finishes) but I appreciated the attempt at making something different. We'll see what happens with it this time around. Anywho, as I said before, this match is one of the strongest contests for the belt. Samoa Joe had just won the belt and was looking to establish it as equal to the world title. James Gibson joined ROH in February and was eager to show everyone that he was greater than his push in WWE. On paper, the match is already a good one but the Pure rules added another layer to their match while also not really taking anything away from it. You didn't feel like their hands were tied by the stips like what we've gotten from so many gimmick matches these days. I look forward to seeing what everyone else thinks, particularly if you've seen some of the other Pure matches from ROH. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NBIceman 09/23/20 12:59:47 AM #4:	Iceman's Match Recommendation (Week 3) Bryan Danielson vs. Naruki Doi Dragon Gate USA Open the Untouchable Gate - September 6, 2009 https://www.bilibili.com/video/av7554969/ A short-lived logistical nightmare and perhaps a little too ahead of its time to be a truly successful venture, DGUSA nonetheless will always be one of my favorite of my all-time favorite promotions. Dragon Gate, as one of the most consistently great promotions in recent memory, crossed over with the American indies at arguably the height of the output match-wise, all with an inspired Gabe Sapolsky at the helm? It'd be hard to craft a company more perfectly tailored to my particular tastes. Johnny Gargano put himself on the map there. The Young Bucks learned much of what they know there. But before any of that, Daniel Bryan Danielson had one of his last indie matches before reporting to WWE there. If you're wondering just how beloved American Dragon was in the minds of hardcore wrestling fans around this time, you need look no further than this match. In an age where even the most popular indie stars were relentlessly booed and mocked and had sellout chants directed at them for signing on the dotted line with WWE, Danielson still has the whole crowd behind him here. And I gotta tell ya, I always forget how much I miss indie AmDrag until I watch one of his matches. Everything he does is so purposeful and intense and violent. Just like all of his bouts around this time, it feels about half as long as it actually was because you just get completely sucked in. It's not even that he does anything especially unique; he just does it all so damn well. But I don't want to undersell his dance partner. When the dust settles on Naruki Doi's career, for a lot of reasons, he'll probably be remembered first and foremost as a tag wrestler. When he found the right opponent for a singles contest, though, he could go with the best of them. Even more so than many of his company contemporaries, he always did a great job of merging the fast-paced Dragon Gate style with the more technical indie style of the time, and that's on full display here. Perfectly placed spots, high-impact moves that always look fantastic, and a lovely job of letting crowd hero Danielson get a lot of babyface shine without being an outright heel. There's something for everyone here, and it's a real window into what DGUSA could've been had some things broken a different way. Here's the kinda funny part: this isn't even my favorite match on the show - the one that slightly edges it out involves a guy who's already shown up in a prior match for this project, though (and who's likely to show up often in the future if it continues long enough), and I'm trying to spread the wealth a bit. Besides, I'm the minority opinion there, considering a good number of folks would be inclined to call this the best match the company ever put on. Hope y'all have fun with it! --- https://imgur.com/UYamul2 Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights <cite>NBIceman posted [p:944970598] in Board 8 Ma... [t:78992834]...</cite> <quote>Iceman's Match Recommendation (Week 3) Bryan Danielson vs. Naruki Doi Dragon Gate USA Open the Untouchable Gate - September 6, 2009 https://www.bilibili.com/video/av7554969/ A short-lived logistical nightmare and perhaps a little too ahead of its time to be a truly successful venture, DGUSA nonetheless will always be one of my favorite of my all-time favorite promotions. Dragon Gate, as one of the most consistently great promotions in recent memory, crossed over with the American indies at arguably the height of the output match-wise, all with an inspired Gabe Sapolsky at the helm? It'd be hard to craft a company more perfectly tailored to my particular tastes. Johnny Gargano put himself on the map there. The Young Bucks learned much of what they know there. But before any of that, Daniel Bryan Danielson had one of his last indie matches before reporting to WWE there. If you're wondering just how beloved American Dragon was in the minds of hardcore wrestling fans around this time, you need look no further than this match. In an age where even the most popular indie stars were relentlessly booed and mocked and had sellout chants directed at them for signing on the dotted line with WWE, Danielson still has the whole crowd behind him here. And I gotta tell ya, I always forget how much I miss indie AmDrag until I watch one of his matches. Everything he does is so purposeful and intense and violent. Just like all of his bouts around this time, it feels about half as long as it actually was because you just get completely sucked in. It's not even that he does anything especially unique; he just does it all so damn well. But I don't want to undersell his dance partner. When the dust settles on Naruki Doi's career, for a lot of reasons, he'll probably be remembered first and foremost as a tag wrestler. When he found the right opponent for a singles contest, though, he could go with the best of them. Even more so than many of his company contemporaries, he always did a great job of merging the fast-paced Dragon Gate style with the more technical indie style of the time, and that's on full display here. Perfectly placed spots, high-impact moves that always look fantastic, and a lovely job of letting crowd hero Danielson get a lot of babyface shine without being an outright heel. There's something for everyone here, and it's a real window into what DGUSA could've been had some things broken a different way. Here's the kinda funny part: this isn't even my favorite match on the show - the one that slightly edges it out involves a guy who's already shown up in a prior match for this project, though (and who's likely to show up often in the future if it continues long enough), and I'm trying to spread the wealth a bit. Besides, I'm the minority opinion there, considering a good number of folks would be inclined to call this the best match the company ever put on. Hope y'all have fun with it! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Bidoof 09/23/20 9:44:18 AM #5:	I was wondering when someone would dip into DGUSA. Excellent pick that I look forward to seeing again! <cite>Bidoof posted [p:944979878] in Board 8 Ma... [t:78992834]...</cite> <quote>I was wondering when someone would dip into DGUSA. Excellent pick that I look forward to seeing again! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Steiner 09/25/20 1:32:49 AM #6:	i scared everyone rip --- Born to bear and bring to all the details of our ending To write it down for all the world to see <cite>Steiner posted [p:945054896] in Board 8 Ma... [t:78992834]...</cite> <quote>i scared everyone rip </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Bidoof 09/25/20 12:46:34 PM #7:	Don't know about the AJPW six-man but I'm pretty confident about being able to watch Doi/Danielson tonight. <cite>Bidoof posted [p:945068894] in Board 8 Ma... [t:78992834]...</cite> <quote>Don't know about the AJPW six-man but I'm pretty confident about being able to watch Doi/Danielson tonight. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Eddv 09/25/20 5:28:20 PM #8:	I straight up have no idea when I'm gonna be able to watch wrestling this week --- Board 8's Voice of Reason https://imgur.com/AWY4xHy <cite>Eddv posted [p:945078780] in Board 8 Ma... [t:78992834]...</cite> <quote>I straight up have no idea when I'm gonna be able to watch wrestling this week </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Steiner 09/25/20 5:31:41 PM #9:	Lol owned I thought I'd sneak a long one in while people were still enthusiastic --- Born to bear and bring to all the details of our ending To write it down for all the world to see <cite>Steiner posted [p:945078905] in Board 8 Ma... [t:78992834]...</cite> <quote>Lol owned I thought I'd sneak a long one in while people were still enthusiastic</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Bidoof 09/27/20 10:24:22 AM #10:	Kind of been a lazy week for me. I'm sorry about not doing my part to produce any discussion for these matches. NBIceman posted... Iceman's Match Recommendation (Week 3) Bryan Danielson vs. Naruki Doi Dragon Gate USA, Open the Untouchable Gate - September 6, 2009 https://www.bilibili.com/video/av7554969/ A short-lived logistical nightmare and perhaps a little too ahead of its time to be a truly successful venture, DGUSA nonetheless will always be one of my all-time favorite promotions. Dragon Gate, as one of the most consistently great promotions in recent memory, crossed over with the American indies at arguably the height of the output match-wise, all with an inspired Gabe Sapolsky at the helm? It'd be hard to craft a company more perfectly tailored to my particular tastes. Johnny Gargano put himself on the map there. The Young Bucks learned much of what they know there. But before any of that, Daniel Bryan Danielson had one of his last indie matches before reporting to WWE there. If you're wondering just how beloved American Dragon was in the minds of hardcore wrestling fans around this time, you need look no further than this match. In an age where even the most popular indie stars were relentlessly booed and mocked and had sellout chants directed at them for signing on the dotted line with WWE, Danielson still has the whole crowd behind him here. And I gotta tell ya, I always forget how much I miss indie AmDrag until I watch one of his matches. Everything he does is so purposeful and intense and violent. Just like all of his bouts around this time, it feels about half as long as it actually was because you just get completely sucked in. It's not even that he does anything especially unique; he just does it all so damn well. But I don't want to undersell his dance partner. When the dust settles on Naruki Doi's career, for a lot of reasons, he'll probably be remembered first and foremost as a tag wrestler. When he found the right opponent for a singles contest, though, he could go with the best of them. Even more so than many of his company contemporaries, he always did a great job of merging the fast-paced Dragon Gate style with the more technical indie style of the time, and that's on full display here. Perfectly placed spots, high-impact moves that always look fantastic, and a lovely job of letting crowd hero Danielson get a lot of babyface shine without being an outright heel. There's something for everyone here, and it's a real window into what DGUSA could've been had some things broken a different way. Here's the kinda funny part: this isn't even my favorite match on the show - the one that slightly edges it out involves a guy who's already shown up in a prior match for this project, though (and who's likely to show up often in the future if it continues long enough), and I'm trying to spread the wealth a bit. Besides, I'm the minority opinion there, considering a good number of folks would be inclined to call this the best match the company ever put on. Hope y'all have fun with it! I want to get my negatives out of the way with this. I've never been high on Doi as a singles guy. Unlike Tim Thatcher from the first week, I've never been able to exactly put my finger on why he never does anything for me. He's a phenomenal tag wrestler (he's part of my two favorite DG tag teams), he's charismatic, his matches are typically good-to-great, so why is he among my least favorite Dream Gate champions ever? Rewatching this match, I think I have at least one reason it doesn't work well for me - Doi's finishers have zero credibility. If you're a long-time DG fan, you know that the Doi 555 or the Bakatare Slide Kick are never putting anyone away on the first use (sometimes not even after the third or fourth and maybe not even when used sequentially). At least Danielson didn't kick out of the Muscular Bomb but I've seen Doi having to hit that multiple times in matches as well to put guys away. Doi's era of DG is particularly notorious for finisher spam (part of why so many guys there have so many) but it feels like he gets it the worst. Relatively minor one here but this was also a reminder for why Lenny Leonard never gelled with me as a commentator. Lenny is really good at naming moves but awful at telling the narrative of the match. There's stretches of this match where he's just shouting moves and I guess I'm supposed to be excited by his tone, but he never conveys why these moves should be so important. That said, I'd take Lenny over anything on WWE television or the AEW Dynamites where JR is particularly checked out. Now that I've got those points out of the way, go watch this match. Especially if you're only familiar with Daniel Bryan in the WWE. This is easily one of the best matches of his indie career. Hell, it might be a contender for one of his best matches ever. You never see Bryan work like this in the WWE with the exceptional, unique limb work and the crazy pacing. It's kind of a shame we didn't get too much more of him working with Dragon Gate guys because it's kind of a perfect pairing of styles. All of the higher end guys could easily match Danielson's pace and his style can keep them from falling too heavily into some of the problems people can have with watching Dragon Gate. Other than the issue I mentioned before, Doi was tremendous here and more than held his own. Only complaint I really have against him is that he isn't Danielson, which doesn't feel like too much of a knock against a guy to say he isn't one of the greatest ever. I'm so happy that this got shared because I had kind of forgotten how incredible Danielson can be when he's not hamstrung by the environment. Highest recommendation. <cite>Bidoof posted [p:945139049] in Board 8 Ma... [t:78992834]...</cite> <quote>Kind of been a lazy week for me. I'm sorry about not doing my part to produce any discussion for these matches. NBIceman posted... </cite> <quote>Iceman's Match Recommendation (Week 3) Bryan Danielson vs. Naruki Doi Dragon Gate USA, Open the Untouchable Gate - September 6, 2009 https://www.bilibili.com/video/av7554969/ A short-lived logistical nightmare and perhaps a little too ahead of its time to be a truly successful venture, DGUSA nonetheless will always be one of my all-time favorite promotions. Dragon Gate, as one of the most consistently great promotions in recent memory, crossed over with the American indies at arguably the height of the output match-wise, all with an inspired Gabe Sapolsky at the helm? It'd be hard to craft a company more perfectly tailored to my particular tastes. Johnny Gargano put himself on the map there. The Young Bucks learned much of what they know there. But before any of that, Daniel Bryan Danielson had one of his last indie matches before reporting to WWE there. If you're wondering just how beloved American Dragon was in the minds of hardcore wrestling fans around this time, you need look no further than this match. In an age where even the most popular indie stars were relentlessly booed and mocked and had sellout chants directed at them for signing on the dotted line with WWE, Danielson still has the whole crowd behind him here. And I gotta tell ya, I always forget how much I miss indie AmDrag until I watch one of his matches. Everything he does is so purposeful and intense and violent. Just like all of his bouts around this time, it feels about half as long as it actually was because you just get completely sucked in. It's not even that he does anything especially unique; he just does it all so damn well. But I don't want to undersell his dance partner. When the dust settles on Naruki Doi's career, for a lot of reasons, he'll probably be remembered first and foremost as a tag wrestler. When he found the right opponent for a singles contest, though, he could go with the best of them. Even more so than many of his company contemporaries, he always did a great job of merging the fast-paced Dragon Gate style with the more technical indie style of the time, and that's on full display here. Perfectly placed spots, high-impact moves that always look fantastic, and a lovely job of letting crowd hero Danielson get a lot of babyface shine without being an outright heel. There's something for everyone here, and it's a real window into what DGUSA could've been had some things broken a different way. Here's the kinda funny part: this isn't even my favorite match on the show - the one that slightly edges it out involves a guy who's already shown up in a prior match for this project, though (and who's likely to show up often in the future if it continues long enough), and I'm trying to spread the wealth a bit. Besides, I'm the minority opinion there, considering a good number of folks would be inclined to call this the best match the company ever put on. Hope y'all have fun with it!</quote> I want to get my negatives out of the way with this. I've never been high on Doi as a singles guy. Unlike Tim Thatcher from the first week, I've never been able to exactly put my finger on why he never does anything for me. He's a phenomenal tag wrestler (he's part of my two favorite DG tag teams), he's charismatic, his matches are typically good-to-great, so why is he among my least favorite Dream Gate champions ever? Rewatching this match, I think I have at least one reason it doesn't work well for me - Doi's finishers have zero credibility. If you're a long-time DG fan, you know that the Doi 555 or the Bakatare Slide Kick are never putting anyone away on the first use (sometimes not even after the third or fourth and maybe not even when used sequentially). At least Danielson didn't kick out of the Muscular Bomb but I've seen Doi having to hit that multiple times in matches as well to put guys away. Doi's era of DG is particularly notorious for finisher spam (part of why so many guys there have so many) but it feels like he gets it the worst.Relatively minor one here but this was also a reminder for why Lenny Leonard never gelled with me as a commentator. Lenny is really good at naming moves but awful at telling the narrative of the match. There's stretches of this match where he's just shouting moves and I guess I'm supposed to be excited by his tone, but he never conveys why these moves should be so important. That said, I'd take Lenny over anything on WWE television or the AEW Dynamites where JR is particularly checked out.Now that I've got those points out of the way, go watch this match. Especially if you're only familiar with Daniel Bryan in the WWE. This is easily one of the best matches of his indie career. Hell, it might be a contender for one of his best matches ever. You never see Bryan work like this in the WWE with the exceptional, unique limb work and the crazy pacing. It's kind of a shame we didn't get too much more of him working with Dragon Gate guys because it's kind of a perfect pairing of styles. All of the higher end guys could easily match Danielson's pace and his style can keep them from falling too heavily into some of the problems people can have with watching Dragon Gate. Other than the issue I mentioned before, Doi was tremendous here and more than held his own. Only complaint I really have against him is that he isn't Danielson, which doesn't feel like too much of a knock against a guy to say he isn't one of the greatest ever. I'm so happy that this got shared because I had kind of forgotten how incredible Danielson can be when he's not hamstrung by the environment. Highest recommendation. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kyubit_Foxstar 09/27/20 3:36:22 PM #11:	Steiner posted... Steiner's Match Recommendation (Week 3) This match was half-good. <cite>Kyubit_Foxstar posted [p:945150155] in Board 8 Ma... [t:78992834]...</cite> <quote>Steiner posted... </cite> <quote>Steiner's Match Recommendation (Week 3)</quote> This match was half-good. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Bidoof 09/27/20 10:13:09 PM #12:	Steiner posted... Steiner's Match Recommendation (Week 3) Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Masanobu Fuchi & Akira Taue All Japan Pro Wrestling, April 20 1991 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaO3Y1RXofo I'll start by noting: this match is kind of long. The video is 53 minutes. In my own watchthrough of AJPW in 91, I saw the time on this 6 man tag and strongly considered skipping it. I forgot all about that a few minutes in - forget about how you feel about long wrestling matches in 2020, this is a perfect hour long drama, where each interaction between different pairs of competitors is their own story. I've been excited to recommend this match since I came up with the concept and I'm gonna have to watch it again to be able to discuss it properly here as it's probably about a year since I saw it, but boy am I excited at that prospect. Hope you all enjoy this as much as I did! Well, I can confirm that the second half of this match is good. <_< While I can name a few 45+ minute matches I loved, I'm one of the first people to tell you that it's generally best to cap matches at around 35. They often lose the crowd, have repeated sequences, or are purely self-masturbatory (some of Chris Hero's long matches, that damn Triple H/HBK HiaC match that I thought would never end). This was not any of those. These guys made the most of their time and, by the end, I don't feel like there was any real waste to this match. Nobody is grabbing a headlock and laying on the mat for two minutes here. I'm kind of at a loss as to where to begin here. I'll say that I didn't find the beginning to be very special. Felt like a typical AJPW tag opener other than Taue slapping Kawada so hard he took a bit of a nap on the outside (about the only negative I have to this match are the shots of Kawada selling being knocked off the apron). As I'm settling into this being your standard good six-man from AJPW, Kawada takes to the ring and gets into a **ing fight with Taue. From then on, they have my undivided attention. Kawada's striking is so good and he works a good chunk of this match trading off between Taue and Tsuruta. I was happy seeing that Jumbo has his fans on the board when following the Greatest Wrestler Ever topic and this is another classic performance from him. He's totally keeping up with his younger opponents and it feels like he's still the same Jumbo I saw from a match in '83 I watched not too long ago (for. . . reasons that we might get to for this series). I did notice that Fuchi was largely a nonentity for the first half of this six-man, but he becomes a bigger presence in the second half with some tremendous heel work. Misawa, to me, is the perfect embodiment of what most expect of a traditional Japanese wrestler. Crisp, athletic, and so stoic. He doesn't really emote much in this match but that kind of makes it more meaningful when you see him huff in frustration or breathing hard as he really works a hold. It also helps that he's got the ultra charismatic Kobashi on his team. If you love Tanahashi, go out and find more young Kobashi. Different styles of work but both are masters of playing fiery babyface. Perhaps the biggest compliment I can give this match is that it ended exactly when it needed to. Like I said before, there's no wasted motion in this match and every sequence, every pairing felt significant. They managed to go 53 minutes and still perfectly hit the peak for the ending. Excellent match and I'm happy I found the time to watch it. <cite>Bidoof posted [p:945166122] in Board 8 Ma... [t:78992834]...</cite> <quote>Steiner posted... </cite> <quote>Steiner's Match Recommendation (Week 3) Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Masanobu Fuchi & Akira Taue All Japan Pro Wrestling, April 20 1991 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaO3Y1RXofo I'll start by noting: this match is kind of long. The video is 53 minutes. In my own watchthrough of AJPW in 91, I saw the time on this 6 man tag and strongly considered skipping it. I forgot all about that a few minutes in - forget about how you feel about long wrestling matches in 2020, this is a perfect hour long drama, where each interaction between different pairs of competitors is their own story. I've been excited to recommend this match since I came up with the concept and I'm gonna have to watch it again to be able to discuss it properly here as it's probably about a year since I saw it, but boy am I excited at that prospect. Hope you all enjoy this as much as I did!</quote> Well, I can confirm that the second half of this match is good. <_< While I can name a few 45+ minute matches I loved, I'm one of the first people to tell you that it's generally best to cap matches at around 35. They often lose the crowd, have repeated sequences, or are purely self-masturbatory (some of Chris Hero's long matches, that damn Triple H/HBK HiaC match that I thought would never end). This was not any of those. These guys made the most of their time and, by the end, I don't feel like there was any real waste to this match. Nobody is grabbing a headlock and laying on the mat for two minutes here. I'm kind of at a loss as to where to begin here. I'll say that I didn't find the beginning to be very special. Felt like a typical AJPW tag opener other than Taue slapping Kawada so hard he took a bit of a nap on the outside (about the only negative I have to this match are the shots of Kawada selling being knocked off the apron). As I'm settling into this being your standard good six-man from AJPW, Kawada takes to the ring and gets into a **ing fight with Taue. From then on, they have my undivided attention. Kawada's striking is so good and he works a good chunk of this match trading off between Taue and Tsuruta. I was happy seeing that Jumbo has his fans on the board when following the Greatest Wrestler Ever topic and this is another classic performance from him. He's totally keeping up with his younger opponents and it feels like he's still the same Jumbo I saw from a match in '83 I watched not too long ago (for. . . reasons that we might get to for this series). I did notice that Fuchi was largely a nonentity for the first half of this six-man, but he becomes a bigger presence in the second half with some tremendous heel work. Misawa, to me, is the perfect embodiment of what most expect of a traditional Japanese wrestler. Crisp, athletic, and so stoic. He doesn't really emote much in this match but that kind of makes it more meaningful when you see him huff in frustration or breathing hard as he really works a hold. It also helps that he's got the ultra charismatic Kobashi on his team. If you love Tanahashi, go out and find more young Kobashi. Different styles of work but both are masters of playing fiery babyface. Perhaps the biggest compliment I can give this match is that it ended exactly when it needed to. Like I said before, there's no wasted motion in this match and every sequence, every pairing felt significant. They managed to go 53 minutes and still perfectly hit the peak for the ending. Excellent match and I'm happy I found the time to watch it. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NBIceman 09/27/20 11:39:32 PM #13:	Alright, first week of this project where I haven't seen one of the recommended matches, and in fact I haven't seen either of them. Let's do this. Bidoof's Match Recommendation (Week 3) Samoa Joe is one of my all-time favorites. James Gibson... eh. He was always good, but I can't say he ever really connected with me too much. I think I could probably name every ROH World Champion ever by memory if I tried, and he'd probably be one of the last that came to mind - and even then, I think I'd only really remember him for being the guy that ended the Summer of Punk. And this match kinda shows why that is. It's not that Gibson really brings matches down. He just also doesn't often really seem to add much. There's some good limb work here. He's smooth and he sells well. There's nothing wrong with the part he's playing. But at the same time, I'm not super invested in seeing him come back from Joe's control period. There's nothing super creative about his work. He feels very much like what he was - a guy who had played lower-card bit roles in big companies who had plenty of talent but wasn't really quite sure how to utilize it to its maximum in the much more free-form environment that was the American indies at the time. All that said, Joe's pure presence during this time made up for some of the shortcomings. There weren't many guys who held a better air of legitimacy in that era of wrestling, and it really did make the Pure Title feel like a big deal right off the bat. The crowd was super into the match the whole way through, Joe was appropriately vicious just like he always was, and both guys did an excellent job laying everything out so that the additional rules of the particular championship were integrated in a way that felt clever and different enough without being intrusive. I'm always of two minds when it comes to belts with their own rules. Cool as they are, they can easily fall into patterns or gimmicks. Lean into them too much and they can easily feel like overly constraining gimmicks. Play to them too little and there's no point. These guys walked that line very well here, although I was waiting for the early accidental rope break for Joe to come into play later on in some way and it never did. Very enjoyable and very good match, but I think it falls a little short of being great for me. The Pure Championship did that a lot, honestly. Anyway, I'm gonna be watching the six-man tonight as well, but my thoughts probably won't come until tomorrow. --- https://imgur.com/UYamul2 Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights <cite>NBIceman posted [p:945169148] in Board 8 Ma... [t:78992834]...</cite> <quote>Alright, first week of this project where I haven't seen one of the recommended matches, and in fact I haven't seen either of them. Let's do this. Bidoof's Match Recommendation (Week 3) Samoa Joe is one of my all-time favorites. James Gibson... eh. He was always good, but I can't say he ever really connected with me too much. I think I could probably name every ROH World Champion ever by memory if I tried, and he'd probably be one of the last that came to mind - and even then, I think I'd only really remember him for being the guy that ended the Summer of Punk. And this match kinda shows why that is. It's not that Gibson really brings matches down. He just also doesn't often really seem to add much. There's some good limb work here. He's smooth and he sells well. There's nothing wrong with the part he's playing. But at the same time, I'm not super invested in seeing him come back from Joe's control period. There's nothing super creative about his work. He feels very much like what he was - a guy who had played lower-card bit roles in big companies who had plenty of talent but wasn't really quite sure how to utilize it to its maximum in the much more free-form environment that was the American indies at the time. All that said, Joe's pure presence during this time made up for some of the shortcomings. There weren't many guys who held a better air of legitimacy in that era of wrestling, and it really did make the Pure Title feel like a big deal right off the bat. The crowd was super into the match the whole way through, Joe was appropriately vicious just like he always was, and both guys did an excellent job laying everything out so that the additional rules of the particular championship were integrated in a way that felt clever and different enough without being intrusive. I'm always of two minds when it comes to belts with their own rules. Cool as they are, they can easily fall into patterns or gimmicks. Lean into them too much and they can easily feel like overly constraining gimmicks. Play to them too little and there's no point. These guys walked that line very well here, although I was waiting for the early accidental rope break for Joe to come into play later on in some way and it never did. Very enjoyable and very good match, but I think it falls a little short of being great for me. The Pure Championship did that a lot, honestly. Anyway, I'm gonna be watching the six-man tonight as well, but my thoughts probably won't come until tomorrow. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
illuminatusbubu 09/28/20 10:45:36 AM #14:	The good news is I try to watch the 6 man tag match. The bad news is it is no longer available. <cite>illuminatusbubu posted [p:945180699] in Board 8 Ma... [t:78992834]...</cite> <quote>The good news is I try to watch the 6 man tag match. The bad news is it is no longer available. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Steiner 09/28/20 10:49:45 AM #15:	well god damn, the timing on that! here this should work: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7r2ogb --- Born to bear and bring to all the details of our ending To write it down for all the world to see <cite>Steiner posted [p:945180824] in Board 8 Ma... [t:78992834]...</cite> <quote>well god damn, the timing on that! here this should work: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7r2ogb </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
illuminatusbubu 09/28/20 11:06:47 AM #16:	damn, now I have no more excuse. <cite>illuminatusbubu posted [p:945181292] in Board 8 Ma... [t:78992834]...</cite> <quote>damn, now I have no more excuse. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Steiner 09/28/20 11:08:17 AM #17:	good job this archive exists multiple times over - I actually have a link to the whole AJPW archive bookmarked somewhere but it was faster to just google the date and pull the 2nd link this time --- Born to bear and bring to all the details of our ending To write it down for all the world to see <cite>Steiner posted [p:945181345] in Board 8 Ma... [t:78992834]...</cite> <quote>good job this archive exists multiple times over - I actually have a link to the whole AJPW archive bookmarked somewhere but it was faster to just google the date and pull the 2nd link this time </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NBIceman 09/28/20 12:29:45 PM #18:	Steiner posted... Steiner's Match Recommendation (Week 3) Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Masanobu Fuchi & Akira Taue All Japan Pro Wrestling, April 20 1991 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaO3Y1RXofo I'll start by noting: this match is kind of long. The video is 53 minutes. In my own watchthrough of AJPW in 91, I saw the time on this 6 man tag and strongly considered skipping it. I forgot all about that a few minutes in - forget about how you feel about long wrestling matches in 2020, this is a perfect hour long drama, where each interaction between different pairs of competitors is their own story. I've been excited to recommend this match since I came up with the concept and I'm gonna have to watch it again to be able to discuss it properly here as it's probably about a year since I saw it, but boy am I excited at that prospect. Hope you all enjoy this as much as I did! Steiner called this match an "escalating war" in the Discord and I think that's a very apt description. I do really love the progression of intensity in this match where the issues between two guys eventually end up dragging the other four into a battle that's just as fiery. Really, the comparison that kept rattling around in my mind as I watched was a hockey fight. You've got Kawada and Taue, who are just perpetually pissed off at each other and are more worried about their own personal problems and proving who's tougher than they are about winning the match most of the time. So they keep finding themselves in constant conflict while their teammates mostly take halfhearted potshots at one another while mostly being otherwise content to let the two sort things out themselves. Misawa and Jumbo have their own tension, but they're stoic and professional and always have their eyes on the prize. Fuchi is the older vet who's been around the block a time or two and doesn't really take anything personally, but at the same time is grumpy enough to eventually get pushed too far. And rounding it off is wild youngster Kobashi, who just desperately wants to prove himself and not let his team down. Throw on an NHL playoff series and you'll probably see a lineup and dynamic like that fairly often. Because what inevitably happens is that one of those halfhearted potshots ends up just hitting a little too hard, and then all bets are off. Everything does indeed escalate, even between the guys who were otherwise trying to keep their cool, and it turns into something special. These 90s All Japan tags are always just so smart. Taue going after Kawada early has the crowd absolutely chomping at the bit for him to tag in, but when he finally does, he immediately proceeds to get the hell beaten out of him for a while, and that just injects more fire into the shots he does get in later in the match. Kobashi plays the perfect face in peril just like he always does, still finding the strength to hit a gorgeous moonsault even with his leg destroyed (imagine not having him #1 on your greatest wrestler ever ballot), and Misawa holds the team together with his hot tags. And of course, it's all tied together with a brilliant finish where the losing team's error in getting sucked into the personal nature of the match ends up being their undoing. Awesome, awesome match. More than earns its long runtime, especially for someone like me who pretty much never minds long matches at all. This is one I'll definitely rewatch several times in the future. --- https://imgur.com/UYamul2 Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights <cite>NBIceman posted [p:945184173] in Board 8 Ma... [t:78992834]...</cite> <quote>Steiner posted... </cite> <quote>Steiner's Match Recommendation (Week 3) Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Masanobu Fuchi & Akira Taue All Japan Pro Wrestling, April 20 1991 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaO3Y1RXofo I'll start by noting: this match is kind of long. The video is 53 minutes. In my own watchthrough of AJPW in 91, I saw the time on this 6 man tag and strongly considered skipping it. I forgot all about that a few minutes in - forget about how you feel about long wrestling matches in 2020, this is a perfect hour long drama, where each interaction between different pairs of competitors is their own story. I've been excited to recommend this match since I came up with the concept and I'm gonna have to watch it again to be able to discuss it properly here as it's probably about a year since I saw it, but boy am I excited at that prospect. Hope you all enjoy this as much as I did!</quote>Steiner called this match an "escalating war" in the Discord and I think that's a very apt description. I do really love the progression of intensity in this match where the issues between two guys eventually end up dragging the other four into a battle that's just as fiery. Really, the comparison that kept rattling around in my mind as I watched was a hockey fight. You've got Kawada and Taue, who are just perpetually pissed off at each other and are more worried about their own personal problems and proving who's tougher than they are about winning the match most of the time. So they keep finding themselves in constant conflict while their teammates mostly take halfhearted potshots at one another while mostly being otherwise content to let the two sort things out themselves. Misawa and Jumbo have their own tension, but they're stoic and professional and always have their eyes on the prize. Fuchi is the older vet who's been around the block a time or two and doesn't really take anything personally, but at the same time is grumpy enough to eventually get pushed too far. And rounding it off is wild youngster Kobashi, who just desperately wants to prove himself and not let his team down. Throw on an NHL playoff series and you'll probably see a lineup and dynamic like that fairly often. Because what inevitably happens is that one of those halfhearted potshots ends up just hitting a little too hard, and then all bets are off. Everything does indeed escalate, even between the guys who were otherwise trying to keep their cool, and it turns into something special. These 90s All Japan tags are always just so smart. Taue going after Kawada early has the crowd absolutely chomping at the bit for him to tag in, but when he finally does, he immediately proceeds to get the hell beaten out of him for a while, and that just injects more fire into the shots he does get in later in the match. Kobashi plays the perfect face in peril just like he always does, still finding the strength to hit a gorgeous moonsault even with his leg destroyed (imagine not having him #1 on your greatest wrestler ever ballot), and Misawa holds the team together with his hot tags. And of course, it's all tied together with a brilliant finish where the losing team's error in getting sucked into the personal nature of the match ends up being their undoing. Awesome, awesome match. More than earns its long runtime, especially for someone like me who pretty much never minds long matches at all. This is one I'll definitely rewatch several times in the future. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Eddv 09/28/20 2:12:13 PM #19:	Doi vs Danielson So my first takeaway is that I am pretty annoyed with WWE for this one. This is my first exposure to this era of Danielson - I have a lot of his early RoH when he looks like a naked mole rat and gangly like a short geekier ZSJ. But this Danielson is the finished product and so fast so good. Its so baffling that he would come to WWE and work this same style in what was essentially slow motion compared to the work he did here. As a showcase for his work this match was a solid snapshot into a moment in time. The early section of this one was a bore. I blame Doi and in general the weird match dynamic. Brian is embraced as the babyface but is working primarily as the heel? The match structure did not leave me wanting anything in particular to happen. Hes in control leaving you to hope for...what out of Doi exactly? Even when Doi does make his comeback it's not really like flashy or good and so the whole dynamic of the match is weird and really hurt my ability to get into the match. And thanks to WWEs presentation of Pete Dunne joint manipulation just bothers me so the whole thing was not landing with me. Toss in that this match doesn't have much story because it is explicitly a showcase and I'll be frank, this one didnt really do too much for me in the early sections and I think that kept me from getting as into the ending sequence as Bidoof. It built to a good fever pitch and eventually does get pretty good. The strike exchanges and Dois offense during this section are really very solid and I did manage to get into it by the end. In the end I give this a 3.5. It was well worked but just wasn't for me. --- Board 8's Voice of Reason https://imgur.com/AWY4xHy <cite>Eddv posted [p:945187655] in Board 8 Ma... [t:78992834]...</cite> <quote>Doi vs Danielson So my first takeaway is that I am pretty annoyed with WWE for this one. This is my first exposure to this era of Danielson - I have a lot of his early RoH when he looks like a naked mole rat and gangly like a short geekier ZSJ. But this Danielson is the finished product and so fast so good. Its so baffling that he would come to WWE and work this same style in what was essentially slow motion compared to the work he did here. As a showcase for his work this match was a solid snapshot into a moment in time. The early section of this one was a bore. I blame Doi and in general the weird match dynamic. Brian is embraced as the babyface but is working primarily as the heel? The match structure did not leave me wanting anything in particular to happen. Hes in control leaving you to hope for...what out of Doi exactly? Even when Doi does make his comeback it's not really like flashy or good and so the whole dynamic of the match is weird and really hurt my ability to get into the match. And thanks to WWEs presentation of Pete Dunne joint manipulation just bothers me so the whole thing was not landing with me. Toss in that this match doesn't have much story because it is explicitly a showcase and I'll be frank, this one didnt really do too much for me in the early sections and I think that kept me from getting as into the ending sequence as Bidoof. It built to a good fever pitch and eventually does get pretty good. The strike exchanges and Dois offense during this section are really very solid and I did manage to get into it by the end. In the end I give this a 3.5. It was well worked but just wasn't for me. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Eddv 09/30/20 7:52:22 PM #20:	AJPW 6 Man Okay as I turn this on instant problem - I don't know my four pillars nearly well enough to know what the fuck is going on for the first like 20 minutes of this match. Well okay, mainly I had a hard time remembering which one was Misawa and which one was Kobashi and on the heel side kinda the same with Jumbo/Fuchi at first. And I'll admit the hour runtime really had me hedging at the prospect of watching the whole thing. Fortunately this crowd is hot enough for the babyfaces that I eventually figure this out. Something I got reminded of partway through this match was the old adage from Scott Hall that went something like "When you do pro wrestling right youll get a bigger pop for a headlock than for whatever it is Rey just did" and boy did this match epitomize that. Its an old enough match that you get that old style like 5 minute armbar spot that just doesn't FEEL like a resthold. And I love that shit. The biggest spots of this match were like...an armbar by Kawada and some strikes from the man who I came to believe was Jumbo came and stomped on Kawada's head like it was a fucking grape during the headlock spot. And I am sure this more of a "I don't watch a ton of Four Pillars" thing than something specific to this match but I love that Kawada refused to give up the sleeper even as he was getting his head stepped on. Just brilliant shit there. Shit after a while the crowd starts biting on forearm strikes as being all its gonna take to put away Taue. The crowd dies about around minute forty - and given that it was minute 40 who can blame them - but they came back to life in a BIG way for the finish from the hot tag to Kawada (and then to Misawa) on to the finish. I also noticed the tag psychology was NOT american rock n roll express hot tag psychology which again took me aback as a delightful surprise. Or at least not for the entire match. In the middle segment, the babyfaces were doing the control spots on poor hapless Taue and because of the way they built the hierarchy you were building like....the dread tag instead. Because once Jumbo or Fuchi gets in the ring the faces are gonna get their asses kicked and you want them to win the match before that happens. Just great stuff. And again every time Kawada starts to get the better of Taue and put Jumbo's team in legitimate Danger Jumbo swats Kawada like the fly he is to him. And once Jumbo gets in he just disassembles Kobashi and hobbles the babyface team as a result this one truly begins to kick into high gear with like...twenty minutes left. Ridiculous. Once that damage is done even the formerly feeble Taue is able to just punish Kobashi and is clearly going to eventually beat him. And yet doesn't overstay its welcome. the pot simmers. Violence stacks on itself. The feelings get hurt. Kawada eventually getting to return the receipts to Jumbo being a moment that popped me hard AND ended up being the key story bit of the match. Kawada stepping to Jumbo's level and that pissing him off is the main 'reason' things go the way they go at the end. The threads being woven at the beginning take form like a Bob Ross painting with the Moonsault and Kawada finally, FINALLY, getting legtimately under Jumbo's skin and forcing that key error at the end as the finishing little touch that ties it all together. This is the sort of thing properly booked tiers can get you. Beautiful. Five Snowflakes. --- Board 8's Voice of Reason https://imgur.com/AWY4xHy <cite>Eddv posted [p:945288975] in Board 8 Ma... [t:78992834]...</cite> <quote>AJPW 6 Man Okay as I turn this on instant problem - I don't know my four pillars nearly well enough to know what the fuck is going on for the first like 20 minutes of this match. Well okay, mainly I had a hard time remembering which one was Misawa and which one was Kobashi and on the heel side kinda the same with Jumbo/Fuchi at first. And I'll admit the hour runtime really had me hedging at the prospect of watching the whole thing. Fortunately this crowd is hot enough for the babyfaces that I eventually figure this out. Something I got reminded of partway through this match was the old adage from Scott Hall that went something like "When you do pro wrestling right youll get a bigger pop for a headlock than for whatever it is Rey just did" and boy did this match epitomize that. Its an old enough match that you get that old style like 5 minute armbar spot that just doesn't FEEL like a resthold. And I love that shit. The biggest spots of this match were like...an armbar by Kawada and some strikes from the man who I came to believe was Jumbo came and stomped on Kawada's head like it was a fucking grape during the headlock spot. And I am sure this more of a "I don't watch a ton of Four Pillars" thing than something specific to this match but I love that Kawada refused to give up the sleeper even as he was getting his head stepped on. Just brilliant shit there. Shit after a while the crowd starts biting on forearm strikes as being all its gonna take to put away Taue. The crowd dies about around minute forty - and given that it was minute 40 who can blame them - but they came back to life in a BIG way for the finish from the hot tag to Kawada (and then to Misawa) on to the finish. I also noticed the tag psychology was NOT american rock n roll express hot tag psychology which again took me aback as a delightful surprise. Or at least not for the entire match. In the middle segment, the babyfaces were doing the control spots on poor hapless Taue and because of the way they built the hierarchy you were building like....the dread tag instead. Because once Jumbo or Fuchi gets in the ring the faces are gonna get their asses kicked and you want them to win the match before that happens. Just great stuff. And again every time Kawada starts to get the better of Taue and put Jumbo's team in legitimate Danger Jumbo swats Kawada like the fly he is to him. And once Jumbo gets in he just disassembles Kobashi and hobbles the babyface team as a result this one truly begins to kick into high gear with like...twenty minutes left. Ridiculous. Once that damage is done even the formerly feeble Taue is able to just punish Kobashi and is clearly going to eventually beat him. And yet doesn't overstay its welcome. the pot simmers. Violence stacks on itself. The feelings get hurt. Kawada eventually getting to return the receipts to Jumbo being a moment that popped me hard AND ended up being the key story bit of the match. Kawada stepping to Jumbo's level and that pissing him off is the main 'reason' things go the way they go at the end. The threads being woven at the beginning take form like a Bob Ross painting with the Moonsault and Kawada finally, FINALLY, getting legtimately under Jumbo's skin and forcing that key error at the end as the finishing little touch that ties it all together. This is the sort of thing properly booked tiers can get you. Beautiful. Five Snowflakes. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Steiner 10/05/20 3:22:07 AM #21:	sorry, plan was to post this weekend but I've been ill instead, will get on it later --- Born to bear and bring to all the details of our ending To write it down for all the world to see <cite>Steiner posted [p:945470984] in Board 8 Ma... [t:78992834]...</cite> <quote>sorry, plan was to post this weekend but I've been ill instead, will get on it later </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Board 8 > Board 8 Match of the Week - Week 3 [wrestling] (+) Yeah! (+)

Board 8 > Board 8 Match of the Week - Week 3 [wrestling]