Board 8 > Do you have aphantasia? (inability to picture images)

(+) Yeah! (+)

KamikazePotato posted...

Yes, I (and most others) can do that.

I still think youre defining it differently

Your brain is still aware that the things youre imagining ARENT real, right?
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I can definitely imagine the star in a way that my mind interprets as a real image. It's not as defined as looking at a picture, and it doesn't feel real in a physical sense, but it still looks like a star.

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Jakyl25 posted...

I still think youre defining it differently

Your brain is still aware that the things youre imagining ARENT real, right?

Yeah we're definitely defining things differently.


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Going through that hyperphasia list I can do almost all of them (can't do all of smell and taste) and took it for granted that that was normal for everyone.

As far as the checklist goes, I can more or less do the stuff on the Visual list but it's difficult and I have to add the detail manually. Doesn't come naturally to me. Audio section is easy peasy. Touch, Smell, Taste, not so much.

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Let me ask rephrase in terms of music because I think that case is a bit easier for me to put into words.

If I were to imagine a song in my head--I can imagine what the song sounds like, but I can't literally imagine that I'm hearing the song and recreate the physical sensation of sounds in my ears.
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i have a very basic sense of taste imagining ability. like often, when i'm trying to decide what to eat, i imagine each thing individually to figure out which thing i want more at the time. definitely can't do the rest of that checklist.

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pyresword posted...

Let me ask rephrase in terms of music because I think that case is a bit easier for me to put into words.

If I were to imagine a song in my head--I can imagine what the song sounds like, but I can't literally imagine that I'm hearing the song and recreate the physical sensation of sounds in my ears.

right, in general that's how it would be for me. though i have to admit, once in a while when i'm on the verge of falling asleep, i can think of music vividly enough that it literally feels like i'm hearing it. same with visuals.

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pyresword posted...

Let me ask rephrase in terms of music because I think that case is a bit easier for me to put into words.

If I were to imagine a song in my head--I can imagine what the song sounds like, but I can't literally imagine that I'm hearing the song and recreate the physical sensation of sounds in my ears.

Yeah it sounds exactly like the song, but it doesnt feel like youre actually using your ears to hear it
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Yeah ok so than I guess back to my original question then is that I don't really understand this prompt.

I guess the way I'm looking at the prompt though is that option 6 is a detailed picture of a star, and option 3 is a detailed picture of a hazy star. To me none of these really get at an inability to visually imagine things. I think I can reasonably assume that I'm not a 6, but I don't think it's in any way that is captured by this scale.
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Okay maybe I'll try and explain myself more.

It's not that I don't have the ability to mentally produce something like image 6. I can produce basically whatever image I want. However--at least in comparison to doing something equivalent with sound--it feels like I really have to spin my wheels in order to produce image 6, and even when I do I can't easily maintain it in my head for large amounts of time. Whereas with music I could quite easily play through an entire song in my head from start to finish.
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pyresword posted...

Okay maybe I'll try and explain myself more.

It's not that I don't have the ability to mentally produce something like image 6. I can produce basically whatever image I want. However--at least in comparison to doing something equivalent with sound--it feels like I really have to spin my wheels in order to produce image 6, and even when I do I can't easily maintain it in my head for large amounts of time. Whereas with music I could quite easily play through an entire song in my head from start to finish.

I think that's the thing that's so difficult to grasp for people who don't have aphantasia. They literally can't even picture the star in their head, there's no images. It's like they're blind in their head

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no, after reading this topic I think I have hyperphantasia though

sometimes I just replay entire songs in my head, vocals, instruments, all of it from start to finish keeping to the rhythm. if there is a vocalist I remember their lyrics and intonations perfectly

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I can do almost everything in that hyperpahntasia list and I too thought that was all completely baseline stuff. The audio one was especially weird to look through - is it actually uncommon to be able to play back a song in your head? That doesn't sound right at all.

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Xiahou Shake posted...

I can do almost everything in that hyperpahntasia list and I too thought that was all completely baseline stuff. The audio one was especially weird to look through - is it actually uncommon to be able to play back a song in your head? That doesn't sound right at all.

it seems common based on this topic. what seems to be the dividing line is if you can modify it all those different ways. the only one i can do is tempo.

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Xuxon posted...

no you can't literally change the information your eyes are sending to your brain. everyone is doing exactly what you do, with the amount of detail being the variable.

ok that's good to know. I didn't want to feel like I was missing out!

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I'd say I have partial aphantasia. I can construct the star visualization but can't keep it. That's the upper bound for visualization. But touch, taste, smell, I can't remember anything about any of that. Sound though, I hit all the checkmarks for hyperphantasia. Once I was trying to find the version of a song I liked, only to find I had been putting the vocals from one mix on the instruments/tempo of the other.

Worth noting I do dream very vividly, my subconscious can do images quite well. I'm faceblind on top of all this, which makes recognizing people a pain in the ass.

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I have aphantasia to an extreme degree. I can't picture a star at all (not even a faint outline) and I can't even see visuals in my dreams at all. It's been like that my entire life.

The only thing I can see when I close my eyes is just black. And if I keep them closed for a long time, it starts to look like a kaleidoscope with just like waves of dull colors (mostly yellowish and black). they never form shapes or pictures though

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How much of a role does memory play in this? Like I can recall scenes from TV shows and stuff pretty vividly, but just visualizing the star is difficult. I'm also just a very unimaginative person in general.

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I can do that casually, but actually thinking about what I'm doing while visualizing makes things harder
This doesn't apply to audio, though

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Up.

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I guess I'm above 6 cause I pictured a red sun with flares and everything lol.

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I don't know. I can imagine a lot of things but it's never like I'm "seeing" them or anything. I'm just imagining what they look like
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Are we sure it's "psychedelics can help open your mind's eye" and not just "some people took psychedelics and had a 'deep' conversation about their imaginations and now we have this concept that's so vague no two people can ever firmly agree on it"

Just kidding kinda, but seriously even after reading this thread I have no clue if I have it because the descriptions are all so vague and different

Idk if it was stage freight or what but I couldn't picture a red star at all

instead I got a very vivid image of Crono in my head. Maybe cause his hair is spiky and red?

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If you'd just asked me, "can you imagine a red star with 5 points" I'd say of course

Then if you asked OK can you imagine it with the points being green instead of red? I'd say of course

Now can I imagine a small blue circle in the center, with the points still green and the background still red? Of course

But when I imagine these things it's more like I'm just imagining how my brain would react if I was looking at such an object. I'm not actually seeing a red star with green points and a blue circle

Then we break down into a semantics talk about whether I'm "actually" envisioning it or not, which is like saying "what if what looks blue to me looks yellow to you, we'll never know! "

I feel like I must be on the opposite end. Picturing the apple immediately came with a full room, an open window with curtains blowing in the wind. This is very useful while writing fantasy, since I need to imagine whole new worlds with specific details. Strangely, I'll default to imagining places as if they're real but living things as if they're animated.

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No, but I think I have that thing where I have a hard time remembering faces. Depending on how long it's been since I last saw the person or how often I used to see them, I can forget faces pretty fast. This has led me to some embarassing situations.

I think in general my brain just doesn't picture faces in a lot of detail. I also don't know how to describe them to other people.

MoogleKupo141 posted...

I dont think so, but now im thinking about thinking while im thinking and its making me second guess myself

like am I actually picturing that red star or am I thinking about what it looked like and not really seeing the image but like what is seeing within your mind? is what I think is seeing not actually what seeing is

I mean Im pretty sure I dont have it, but even being made aware that its a possibility is messing with me now

This

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Yeah that does sum it up pretty well for me too tbh

The way I think of it is like I have a second monitor for imagination. On this second monitor I can play whatever I want with varying degrees of clarity. For instance I can taste and feel but it doesn't really have an effect on my first monitor, the one that displays "reality"

Monitor is a bad metaphor because both monitors are capable of all senses. And there's some crossover, thinking about food can make me hungry, thinking about music makes me bob my head etc.

Its not like the stuff I see is perfect, nor is it fuzzy, it's just a little "unfocused" like I might picture a red apple and then it might become green or shinier or bigger as I think of it. These changes happen so frequently its hard to have a distinct image, but for all intents and purposes I think it's clear enough.

I also want to point out this ability came in my adult life, early twenties. When I was a kid I remember reading spaceman spiff wondering why I couldn't do that with my mind. Then eventually I was able to create any world I wanted. I think its a practice thing (imagining sex probably helped) so if anyone feels they cant do that, I imagine they could if they tried enough

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Yeah this messed with me last night. Like I can't actually see anything when my eyes are closed but it seems like some people can? Like I can imagine what something would look like but I don't actually see it. I don't imagine many details though, just a vague picture. Like when I'm reading I tend to fill in faces with real life people or characters from video games or stuff like that. Makes me feel like I'm missing out on some stuff here!

MZero posted...

image

I think keying in on this word might help those confused.

Do you experience an image in any way when you imagine? Lets not say see
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I... think so. I can't make an image appear in my mind, and I never can, it's always just black when I close my eyes. I know that's not true in my dreams to some extent because my dreams can be visual. I mean, I can't be sure of the level of detail but I've had ones that have certainly felt/seemed real?

Jakyl25 posted...

Im fascinated by how people with aphantasia describe reading books. Like they just process the words without actually seeing the scenes in their head.

That's how it is for me. idk it's hard to explain because I've never known any other way.


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My eyes glaze over when a book starts describing the scenery or what a character looks like, that's for sure.

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Unless they're tripping on some kind of psychedelic drug I don't think anybody is literally seeing pictures on the backs of their eyelids or whatever. also if everything you imagined was in your eye's view there'd be way more car crashes and other accidents.

A think a lot of this "aphantasia" stuff is just misunderstanding. I can understand people having difficulty with spatial reasoning and picturing objects in 3D. But if you're not able to conjure up the face of a family member or loved one then I truly feel sorry for you

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One thing I always find fascinating is how much people assume everyone experiences things they way they do. I was talking with my parents about face blindness and I said I couldn't picture thier faces if I closed my eyes. Mum said "that's normal, nobody can do that." Dad was completely stupefied at that point, haha.

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Interesting, I more or less hit all the check marks for hyperphantasia, which is cool although

Snake5555555555 posted...

It can sometimes be overwhelming to be honest, having such an over-acting imagination. It makes it so much easier to be anxious about things.

This is definitely true. I've had to train myself not to let my imagination get carried away, it still sometimes gets the best of me but I now have "safe zones" in my mind that I try to focus on, which works most days

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This is interesting. I don't think I actually visualize anything when I think of things but I can conceptually understand and image you describe. I just don't actually see anything in my "minds eye." I hear me describing it more than seeing it. Didn't realize this was a thing really.

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JeffreyRaze posted...

One thing I always find fascinating is how much people assume everyone experiences things they way they do. I was talking with my parents about face blindness and I said I couldn't picture thier faces if I closed my eyes. Mum said "that's normal, nobody can do that." Dad was completely stupefied at that point, haha.

Yeah this is what draws me to the subject more than anything else. Maybe people would be better at understanding each other if differing world perceptions was taught in school or something.

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