Board 8 > Anagram plays Danganronpa v3 (spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Yeah, that's it for Danganronpa outside of random light novels set in the 'original' universe.

Fun fact: Tsumugi's voice actress didn't know she was the Mastermind until the very moment she was revealed as the Mastermind in the script.

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Anagram posted...

- I like the audience reactions. "This is why I wanted Kaede to live" is funny.

The audience comments are amazing. Might be the best part of the case, honestly!

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Oh, and I don't think you got any of them, so here are all the V3 secret scenes!

https://youtu.be/IeF1d0UfBVQ

I really like the V3 post game stuff, too.

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Yeah V3's post game is excellent

There's one person in the comments who keeps saying really creepy stalkery things about Shuichi. That and "This guy should've died instead of Kaede!" are just amazing.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

There are books technically, but yeah you're done, for all intents and purposes!

Thank Christ, although I'm responsible since I marathoned the entire series for basically no reason.

KamikazePotato posted...

Fun fact: Tsumugi's voice actress didn't know she was the Mastermind until the very moment she was revealed as the Mastermind in the script.

Amusing, but I can see it.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Oh, and I don't think you got any of them, so here are all the V3 secret scenes!

https://youtu.be/IeF1d0UfBVQ

I really like the V3 post game stuff, too.

I'll have to watch these later, thanks.

KamikazePotato posted...

There's one person in the comments who keeps saying really creepy stalkery things about Shuichi. That and "This guy should've died instead of Kaede!" are just amazing.

I saw that, yeah.

So there is a point in going back and voting for Keebo or Tsugumi?

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Not sure. Other fun facts I do know:

-Tsumugi is never on your side during a nonstop debate...except in the first one.
-Miu correctly guesses the culprit early on in each trial, but no one listens to her.
-Similarly, Angie's Atua predictions during trials that show up as background text are very accurate and hint at plot twists.

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It's a very quick game over where Shuichi was like "why did I do this" and then you go back and do the vote over.

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-In a pre-release poll, Himiko was voted most likely to die.
-Whenever Keebo mentions his inner voice throughout the game, it usually tells him to take an action that would move the 'plot' forward
-Tsumugi is usually calm and prefers to stay in the background and be the peanut gallery, making references and slyly making fun of the characters. One of the times she freaks out us when she learns that Keebler, the audience surrogate acting as a streaming camera, has been analyzing Miu's turds.
-The floor in the audition videos is identical to the floor in the back of Tsugumi's lab. Make of that what you will.

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MrSmartGuy posted...

It's a very quick game over where Shuichi was like "why did I do this" and then you go back and do the vote over.

Oh good, thanks.

KamikazePotato posted...

-Tsumugi is never on your side during a nonstop debate...except in the first one.
-Miu correctly guesses the culprit early on in each trial, but no one listens to her.
-Similarly, Angie's Atua predictions during trials that show up as background text are very accurate and hint at plot twists.

I actually did notice Tsumugi is always wrong, but I attributed that to her just being a Worf.

KamikazePotato posted...

-In a pre-release poll, Himiko was voted most likely to die.
-Whenever Keebo mentions his inner voice throughout the game, it usually tells him to take an action that would move the 'plot' forward
-Tsumugi is usually calm and prefers to stay in the background and be the peanut gallery, making references and slyly making fun of the characters. One of the times she freaks out us when she learns that Keebler, the audience surrogate acting as a streaming camera, has been analyzing Miu's turds.
-The floor in the audition videos is identical to the floor in the back of Tsugumi's lab. Make of that what you will.

I'm still kind of surprised Himiko lived. When I looked through the characters to start with, she was my second most certain death, after Ryoma. Didn't notice the other stuff, though.

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KamikazePotato posted...

-Miu correctly guesses the culprit early on in each trial, but no one listens to her.
-Similarly, Angie's Atua predictions during trials that show up as background text are very accurate and hint at plot twists.

Fuck now I need to replay the game again and check this

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Miu, I knew about. I can basically recite 2 of those lines word for word from memory from watching so many people play this game on YouTube.

"I think the cleaning lady here did it! It's way too suspicious that you were the only one in the gym!"
"I don't know about Tenko, but I'm pretty fuckin' sure Kiyo killed Angie!" (this is basically the opening statement in the entire trial, and then there's a discussion about Kiyo's katana being the murder weapon)

I don't actually recall offhand her accusing Kaede, but I'm not denying it happened.

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And if she didn't accuse Kaede... well, Kaede didn't do it, so that could have been a hint.

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KamikazePotato posted...

Not sure. Other fun facts I do know:

-Tsumugi is never on your side during a nonstop debate...except in the first one.

Also, Keebo is on the right side of every single debate scrum.


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Overall Review
So, this has been a fun series to play through, but it's going to be difficult to talk about. Primarily this is due to the series becoming more meta over time, which makes it kind of hard to compare the games to each other, and it means that the amount of enjoyment you'll get depends entirely on how much meta stuff you enjoy. But let me just say immediately that I completely understand why someone might hate V3. D1 isn't meta at all, D2 gets meta but in the same way as MGS2, while V3 goes full-on meta and basically declares that the previous games don't matter at all because they're fiction. I can see why someone would feel betrayed by that, and by the game actively mocking that feeling. But hey, I'm not a longtime fan, so none of that matters to me.

D1 is super straightforward in its plot when you think about it. The murders themselves are complicated, but the overall plot is very simple. D2 is where things get weirder, and V3 completely flies off the rails, which is fine. So it's like... how much meta can you tolerate? Because that becomes the main defining difference between the games.

I can see why things had to be this way. After D1, what are you going to do? Have Junko Enoshima's ghost show up every few years and run another killing game? Have someone pretend to be her and do it again? That's what D2 and D3 did. Are you going to Legend of Zelda this, where Ganondorf just keeps coming back? Or are you going to keep coming up with increasingly convoluted reasons for someone to run a killing game where high schoolers massacre each other? So I can see why the series sort of could only expand in this very specific direction.

As far as comparing the games to each other goes, I think I have to go with V3 > D1 > D2. D1 has a cohesive direction and tone, a darker, more grounded atmosphere, and a cast that's sort of more than the sum of its parts. D1 is also the one with the fewest 'anime-y' things in it, which is to its benefit. Like, in D1, there's a real atmosphere of suspicion. Characters aren't unfriendly with each other, but there's tension, and everyone (except Aoi) is always a little guarded. There is basically none of that in D2 at all, and very little of it in V3. If you like traditional stories, then D1 is the only that works properly. D2 is where we start introducing more mascot characters, the humans get wackier, and the meta elements get ramped up. V3 also has wacky characters, more mascots, and meta elements, but it uses them in a more coherent way? V3 feels like it's trying to say something, and it just has the overall best cases, with one notable exception.

Talking about V3 itself, I think the only real misfire is Korekiyo and 3-3. Korekiyo just did not work at all for the tone. His motive is way too stupid and evil, and the Psycho reveal about his sister is also just... dumb. I guess you can write it all off as Tsugumi just screwing around, but if we view each chapter as a story to be ranked against each other regardless of that, it's probably my least favorite in the series. Not only that, but it squanders the only interesting idea it has, which is having to tolerate a murderer in your midst because he didn't commit the specific murder the trial is about.

3-1 is the only first chapter in the series that I would say is strong in its own right. It's not perfect, but it does have a solid twist with Kaede. 3-2 is fine, it's a perfectly okay chapter, and it has a sympathetic murderer again. 3-4 is really good from an emotional perspective, even though I instantly knew Kokichi was behind things, because the game has done such a good job of making Gonta seem innocent. And 3-5 and 3-6 are where things really get wacky, but in a good way.

I don't really know what to think of this series. It's one of those lesser video game franchises, certainly not a Mario or Zelda, not even a Golden Sun or Dragon Age, and from that perspective, it's fine. It's one of those really niche ideas that they take probably as far as it can go. I don't know where you can even take this idea without getting even more meta, like a virtual reality online multiplayer killing game within the game itself, or a new game named Danganronpa where someone reboots the series 9 years after Tsumugi's death, or something weird like that.

I guess that's it! Thanks for reading, everyone.

Chapters
3-6
3-4
2-5
2-6
3-5
1-5/1-6
2-4
1-4
3-1
3-2
2-2
1-1
2-3
1-2
1-3
2-1
3-3

Characters
A Tier
Shuichi
Chiaki
Kyoko
Tsugumi
Byakuya
Gundham
Junko
Kaito
Kokichi

B Tier
Miu
Maki
Fuyuhiko
Keebo
Gonta
Kirumi
Toko
Izuku
Akane
Aoi
Mukuro
Sakura

C Tier
Hajime
Ryoma
Sonia
Peko
Taka
Angie
Kaede
Komaru
Yasuhiro
Himiko
Hiyoko
Makoto
Tenko
Nagito

D Tier
Rantaro
Mondo
Nekomaru
Sayaka
Mahiru
Kazuihchi
Chihiro
Ultimate Imposter
Celestia
Leon

F Tier
Teruteru
Mikan
Hifumi
Korekiyo

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Oh, and it's unfortunate that Himiko, who survives until the end of the game, has the worst VA in the series.

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Anagram posted...

V3 goes full-on meta and basically declares that the previous games don't matter at all because they're fiction.

This is a common take from people who dislike V3 and I can never understand how they came away with it.

One of the primary focal points of Shuichi and the others resolve, and part of Kodaka's message. is that fiction MATTERS and IS IMPORTANT. Tsumugi, the villain, claims they don't matter because they are for all intents fictional people, which is the stance you're fighting to deny, that they (fiction) have a purpose.

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Fun fact: Literally every VA in V3 was in 1 or 2, except Maki who was in UDG.

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I'd be okay with the series going back to its roots and just making a normal killing game like in DR1, but with a different backstory in a different timeline. But also with individual characters as good as DR3's ones. I'm not a huge fan of DR2 or DR3's plots. Though I liked all 3 games for different reasons.

Also how you just gonna forget to rank Ibuki

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Anagram posted...

Oh, and it's unfortunate that Himiko, who survives until the end of the game, has the worst VA in the series.

Oh no way can I agree with this. Byakuya and Makoto are easily last place.

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Anagram posted...

I don't know where you can even take this idea without getting even more meta, like a virtual reality online multiplayer killing game within the game itself, or a new game named Danganronpa where someone reboots the series 9 years after Tsumugi's death, or something weird like that.

They don't either which is why this series is dead, sadly
It's done and buried

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Nanis23 posted...

They don't either which is why this series is dead, sadly
It's done and buried

I've brought this up already, but they were hiring up for a new DR last December.

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Anagram posted...

Characters
A Tier
Tsugumi

Wait what the fuck
She did nothing the entire game, did she really buy you with her games and anime references or something?
Or did you somehow liked her being the mastermind?

Either way I am confused

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

I've brought this up already, but they were hiring up for a new DR last December.

Watch this being a mobile spin-off garbage

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Do you hire up new staff for mobile spinoff garbage?

I guess technically possible.

Actually appears it was specifically for a PS4 project, so...

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I love Tsumugi. Yeah, I think they should have done way more with her character earlier, they made her too bland and uninteresting, but the villain reveal is A+. The idea of a DR-fanboy cosplayer villain who isn't actually competent is hilarious, and while I don't think the execution was perfect in every way, I was still absolutely reveling in evil-Tsumugi the entire chapter. Also, the fact that there was actually a mastermind and that it was someone in the group the whole time made DRV3 a lot more fun imo, since both DR1 and DR2 lacked that sort of exciting reveal, although again the reveal would have been more exciting if Tsumugi had more impact.

Also I played in a 100+ person anonymous Danganronpa mafia-themed game once and I got assigned Tsumugi for that game despite not having played DRV3 yet, so that kind of gave me an extra affinity for her.

bwburke94 posted...

And if she didn't accuse Kaede... well, Kaede didn't do it, so that could have been a hint.

Miu says early that the mastermind killed Rantaro.

As for Tsumugi, I was always wondering: if she's like the staff writer, was she the mastermind in all previous DR games? Was V3 special because she decided to join the game? Were there other staff writers who joined the DR games in previous games?

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Nanis23 posted...

Wait what the fuck
She did nothing the entire game, did she really buy you with her games and anime references or something?
Or did you somehow liked her being the mastermind?

Either way I am confused

Para basically summed it up for me.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Also how you just gonna forget to rank Ibuki

Whoops! Put her in B-tier.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

This is a common take from people who dislike V3 and I can never understand how they came away with it.

One of the primary focal points of Shuichi and the others resolve, and part of Kodaka's message. is that fiction MATTERS and IS IMPORTANT. Tsumugi, the villain, claims they don't matter because they are for all intents fictional people, which is the stance you're fighting to deny, that they (fiction) have a purpose.

I mean, I guess you can say that how fiction affects people matters, but since D1 and D2 (in universe) made people want more Danganronpa games, Makoto's and Hajime's adventures appear to have only made the world worse.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Oh no way can I agree with this. Byakuya and Makoto are easily last place.

I have no idea how anyone can support her over them. Neither of them are great, but she sounds like a third grader.

kevwaffles posted...

Fun fact: Literally every VA in V3 was in 1 or 2, except Maki who was in UDG.

This is the biggest plot twist of all.

SSBM_Guy posted...

Miu says early that the mastermind killed Rantaro.

As for Tsumugi, I was always wondering: if she's like the staff writer, was she the mastermind in all previous DR games? Was V3 special because she decided to join the game? Were there other staff writers who joined the DR games in previous games?

A better question is why, if D1, 2, and 3 are just TV shows, they made a TV show in D3 where the entire D1 cast returns and none of them die. Like, what happens to those "characters" after the show ends? Do they have to keep competing until they die? Because they said the original storyline ended after D3, so what became of them.

I get it, it obviously doesn't matter, but I do find it amusing that all of the plot holes in the series can be ignored as someone's bad writing. One thing I was disappointed at was how they only went up to Danganronpa 10 and didn't make 53 titles.

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Another thing on my mind for DRV3: why this season? What events in the game led to this season being the one that breaks the cycle? I love that stuff for meta stories but throughout 3-6, I never got the feeling that the DRV3 events and actions specifically had something that would break the cycle.

This is something where 3-5 really could have been useful, especially since its all about confusing the mastermind while also simultaneously confusing the player. It was perfect for this sorta game. And then nothing really came out of it.

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There are some things specifically that are definitely difficult for me to recall due to the absurd amount of post ending V3 fics I have read, and I don't want to mix up the actual events versus something from those.

Gonna go through these games again on PS5 for sure.

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SSBM_Guy posted...

Another thing on my mind for DRV3: why this season? What events in the game led to this season being the one that breaks the cycle? I love that stuff for meta stories but throughout 3-6, I never got the feeling that the DRV3 events and actions specifically had something that would break the cycle.

This is something where 3-5 really could have been useful, especially since its all about confusing the mastermind while also simultaneously confusing the player. It was perfect for this sorta game. And then nothing really came out of it.

Well, it's the first one where the audience is taking an ACTIVE role in the game through Keebo. And also, Tsumugi is an incompetent who let the cast spot the threads.

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It's not necessarily the first one where the players realize it's all a game.

But it's the first one where they decide to form a suicide cult to break the game. Which I assume is not something that happens very often.

I really feel like the game should have given Kokichi more credit in the end, he's kind of the MVP

I posted in the spoilers topic about how I really think that 3-5 should have ended with Kokichi's plan working, getting everyone to vote wrong and start the execution only to have Kaito pop up, totally ruining the premise of the game and throwing it into chaos, which causes the audience to make Keebo go crazy instead of having his antenna clipped. This could also make Tsumugi have to force her hand in order to keep things on track and have to show her hand, causing her defeat in 3-6. I dunno, Kokichi's plan is just the most interesting thing in this game, and he should have won, even if it takes Shuichi's effort to get it over the finish line.

https://youtu.be/jNM-5lfoymk

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Oh wait, I forgot the official waifu ranking. This ignores any factor of them being murderers, but otherwise counts their personalities as normal.
Kaede > Chiaki > Sonia > Kyoko > Aoi > Tenko > Maki > Peko > Toko > Miu > Ibuki > Kirumi > Mahiru > Akane > Sakura > Sayaka > Hiyoko > Himiko > Mikan > Celeste > Angie > Junko

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Perfect top 5
Fuck Tenko

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KamikazePotato posted...

-Tsumugi is never on your side during a nonstop debate...except in the first one.

Conversly, Kaede's portrait is always on Shuichi's side in a scrum debate.

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Peoples' records of being correct or incorrect in a scrum debate:

Angie 2-0
Kaede 1-0
Keebo 4-1
Kaito 3-1
Shuichi 3-2
Tsumugi 3-2
Himiko 3-2
Gonta 2-2
Kirumi 1-1
Tenko 1-1
Rantaro 0-0
Maki 2-3
Miu 1-2
Kokichi 1-3
Ryoma 0-1
Korekiyo 0-3

Paratroopa1 posted...

Peoples' records of being correct or incorrect in a scrum debate:

Angie 2-0
Kaede 1-0
Keebo 4-1
Kaito 3-1
Shuichi 3-2
Tsumugi 3-2
Himiko 3-2
Gonta 2-2
Kirumi 1-1
Tenko 1-1
Rantaro 0-0
Maki 2-3
Miu 1-2
Kokichi 1-3
Ryoma 0-1
Korekiyo 0-3

Really? I distinctly remember Korekiyo siding with you in 3-3.

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Yeah, the argument in 3-3 is about whether there are two killers. Shuichi is wrong in that one. Shuichi is also wrong in chapter 5, arguing that Kaito is the victim.

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MrSmartGuy posted...

Yeah, the argument in 3-3 is about whether there are two killers. Shuichi is wrong in that one. Shuichi is also wrong in chapter 5, arguing that Kaito is the victim.

Ah, okay, thanks.

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I see 3-3 more as arguing that it's not safe to vote before confirming Kiyo killed Angie, which IMO is absolutely true. I just checked the sides and they're "Vote now vs Don't vote yet" instead of "Kiyo killed Angie vs Kiyo didn't kill Angie"

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Yeah, I count Shuichi's side as the right one in case 3. Even though Korekiyo did end up being the killer, it would've been dumb to vote for him when you had only proven he killed Tenko, which was a meaningless kill.
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"Vote now" is bad process but correct result. While "don't vote yet" is better process, it ultimately leads absolutely nowhere, and it is clearly based on the presumption that it was not Kiyo who did the kill. I mean, you have Kiyo on your side and he's just flatly full of shit. Shuichi's process was good, but in my opinion he takes the L on that one.

They basically had barely even touched on Angie's murder specifically at this point. Shuichi never just fully took Kiyo at his word that he wasn't responsible for both kills, just that the possibility hadn't been ruled out. I take the position of "hey lets take a few minutes here because our lives are literally on the line" as the correct stance no matter what.

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I agree that not voting Kiyo as the Angie's murder is actually the correct option, and this is coming from someone who never doubted Kiyo did both murders. Not only is it a really stupid risk to gamble on Kiyo doing both murders while only investigating the meaningless kill, but the next killer that comes along is going to see how a double murder clouds the judgment of the class, and use it in their inevitable plot.

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Like, in the general sense, I agree that voting for Kiyo at that time is not the correct process, even if it has the right result. But in the context of like, Shuichi teaming up with Kiyo to argue that they shouldn't vote to execute Kiyo, Shuichi is just not on the right side here - they really could have just voted and it would have worked out. In terms of process, Shuichi's right, but the other side is right that voting Kiyo would result in a win and Shuichi is HELPING THE MURDERER filibuster that.

I still highly disagree with that logic. Assume for a moment that after discovering Kiyo murdered Tenko they still just never get anywhere in solving Angie's murder. They still eventually have to vote someone. What would everyone do in that case? They would still vote Kiyo.

A lot of times people complain that killers get caught because of their elaborate attempts to frame someone rather than just making an unsolvable murder. Kiyo actually attempts for the unsolvable route with Angie, but in his case that would have actually backfired even if successful because of his insistence on doing the seesaw kill no matter what.

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