Current Events > Happy birthday, Martin Scorsese!

(+) Yeah! (+)

We love you, King. Also, reminder that Marvel movies are not cinema.

Also free recommendation: A Personal Journey Through American Movies with Martin Scorsese. Great essay-esque documentary where Marty talks about films that he loved and that influenced him from the silent era up until he started making movies. It's like three and a half hours long. Aired as a miniseries on BBC back in the 90s I think. His breakdowns are sublime. No one loves movies more than this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miHgdsXVcIQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po1cvUePmf4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fN73pwUW9OQ

the youtube versions are sorta heavily edited due to rights issues i guess idc. still v informative and will give you many recs on cool movies to check out :)

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bump for the king

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King

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Let's watch a movie from the MCU to celebrate!

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQKS4_Y7QCI

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Prestoff posted...

Let's watch a movie from the MCU to celebrate!

the irishman, mean streets, and cape fear are all on netflix!

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Zithers posted...

the irishman, mean streets, and cape fear are all on netflix!

But its not cinema if its on Netflix so therefore its not worth watching.

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Major weiner, fedora fascist energy from this one - and i don't even like super hero movies

GOAT

alright, maybe not THE best (cause I hardly know most of them) director but certainly one who has made a plethora of really funny and awesome media<3


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Who?
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Gamerguymass posted...

But its not cinema if its on Netflix so therefore its not worth watching.

weird take but go off

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vaw0ut44JQg

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Not a fan

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Zithers posted...

weird take but go off

Steven Spielberg has said Netflix hurts the cinema expeirence, so if it hurts the cinema experience the movies made for Netflix can't possibly be cinema. And since Scorsese makes Netflix movies now that means he no longer makes cinema.

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Martin "Marvel movies aren't cinema" Scorsese

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Kundun still his best movie

Gamerguymass posted...

Steven Spielberg has said Netflix hurts the cinema expeirence, so if it hurts the cinema experience the movies made for Netflix can't possibly be cinema. And since Scorsese makes Netflix movies now that means he no longer makes cinema.

its true that netflix doesnt compare to the theatrical experience

however cinema is not defined by where you watch a movie and is entirely about the way it is made

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5DqmTtCPiQ&t=4s

Although I don't want to compare Marvel films to modern/abstract/subversive art -- the principle still stands. It's weirdly fascist to set arbitrary guidelines for what creative endeavors are considered art and which ones are not.
Scorsese is like the adult version of the High School kid with a bowl cut who just started guitar lessons, bought a Led Zeppelin shirt from Kohls, and talks about in his English Literature class how, "punk isn't real music - it's just power chords," and "rap isn't music - it's just talking." "That music is just screaming."
"That film is just some potheads with a video camera and some ketchup."

It's major fedora energy AND major boomer energy simultaneously.

marvel movies, like all movies, are art.

they just arent cinema.

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I re-watched The Departed the other day, so good
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Zithers posted...

marvel movies, like all movies, are art.

they just arent cinema.

That's such a dumb, pretentious statement.
Is Salo cinema? Sweet Movie? A Serbian Film?
Is something like Things cinema? Video Violence?
Guinea Pig?
Does it need a wide release? Does it need to be within a certain budget? Can it not have green screens or a large number of people working in production? Does it need a named director? Does it need to follow a certain, measurable number of film conventions? Does it need to be advertised and marketed?

bobbaaay posted...

Does it need a wide release? Does it need to be within a certain budget? Can it not have green screens or a large number of people working in production? Does it need a named director? Does it need to follow a certain, measurable number of film conventions? Does it need to be advertised and marketed?

the answer to all of these is no.

a vine or tiktok could be cinema. a youtube video. a $250m blockbuster or $50k microbudget movie. a tv show even.

its all about specificity of vision. if something is focus grouped to death (like most blockbusters) i would argue that they aren't that different than any other blockbuster. or if they're some indie with a bunch of handheld soft focus stuff and people mumbling it isn't cinema either bc there's hundreds of those. it just isn't original. nothing new is happening, no unique voice shining through, etc. and this is all easier to trace if a director has a large body of work and you can see where they visit the same style, themes, etc that makes them stand out.

and of course there can be bad cinema and good cinema. like zack snyder or something who has a voice but its just a bad one.

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Martin "Marvel ain't got nothing on me" Scorsese

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Zithers posted...

the answer to all of these is no.

a vine or tiktok could be cinema. a youtube video. a $250m blockbuster or $50k microbudget movie. a tv show even.

its all about specificity of vision. if something is focus grouped to death (like most blockbusters) i would argue that they aren't that different than any other blockbuster. or if they're some indie with a bunch of handheld soft focus stuff and people mumbling it isn't cinema either bc there's hundreds of those. it just isn't original. nothing new is happening, no unique voice shining through, etc. and this is all easier to trace if a director has a large body of work and you can see where they visit the same style, themes, etc that makes them stand out.

and of course there can be bad cinema and good cinema. like zack snyder or something who has a voice but its just a bad one.

Scorsese's films were/are blockbusters, too (maybe not literally - but it feels like it). I get what you said about having a unique style -- but does that imply that James Gunn doesn't have a unique style of his own? I've never seen the Guardians of the Galaxy films - but I feel like his writing and directing catalogue has a distinct/goofy style to it, starting with his work with Troma (particularly Tromeo and Juliet).
There's also a unique style and theme to the costuming, special effects, etc. in the MCU. It's a discredit to all of THOSE members of the film crew to say that there isn't a shared vision or there's a lack of creativity.

Literally watch that Youtube video I posted, because the definition being used definitely follows a fascist view of art.

Are Kids and Gummo not cinema because Korine was too new of a director to have his films/style be definitive at that point? Or Eggers and Aster, despite critical acclaim, because they're only on their sophomore films?
What about someone like Anna Biller or (yuck) Terrantino -- who built their styles around pastiche, albeit well done pastiche? Is it not cinema because it's derivative? Because people can look at Biller and wrongly associate her work with stuff like Russ Meyer or Jean Rollin? Or you can look at Terrantino and say his stuff totally rips off Abel Ferrara or whatever?

taxi driver is his best

james gunn's GOTG movies (well, movie, i only saw the first one) are extremely similar to the other MCU movies except they have a soundtrack full of oldies you hear over the PA when you're at the grocery store and slightly more quips. it's also possible that you have someone start off with a promising career making something fun and memorable before they take the paychecks and just forget about being an artiste. or vice versa.

the MCU does indeed have a house style. but they choose to be visually dull, are loaded with momentum killing expository scenes, follow the same plot formula, no interesting characterization, etc. they play it as safe as possible and cater to everyone - which really means they cater to no one. to me this prevents it from being cinema. not really related to the cinema vs not cinema argument but this is unforgivable given that they have monster budgets. there's no excuse for you to not make a great movie with those kind of resources. anyway people tell me thor 3 isn't like this. maybe i'll get around to that someday.

ripping off other filmmakers and cramming their influences together like tarantino does with kung fu, exploitation, spaghetti westerns, etc. doesn't make it any less cinematic.

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bobbaaay posted...

Scorsese's films were/are blockbusters, too

Not really, no. He's made some box office hits, but none of them were huge.

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amok do you want to join the discord yet

we're about to watch akira for movie of the week

wrapping up 3 women week today

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we're also all making fun of nancy pelosi if that entices you

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this opinion really bothers you guys doesn't it

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pauIie posted...

this opinion really bothers you guys doesn't it

I don't even like superhero films, or really even action films for that matter - but I really don't like condescension in regards to the valuation of art. Honestly I have as little desire to see most Scorsese films as I do most superhero films.

Action movies can be cinema tho

haywire, mission impossible, Indians Jones (Spielberg in general really), John wick, mad Max, etc

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Zithers posted...

Action movies can be cinema tho

haywire, mission impossible, Indians Jones (Spielberg in general really), John wick, mad Max, etc

I didn't say they can't be?
Trying to dictate what can or can't be considered cinema is, as I said, being that bowl cut kid in High School saying rap isn't music because it's just talking.
It just reeks of unwarranted snobbery. Not saying Scorsese isn't warranted in his opinions or he isn't talented - because he clearly is - but the whole thing comes off as so weinery, fascist, fedora-y, boomery, etc.

Pretty bad comparison bc its clear all sorts of different styles of movies, budgets, time periods, genres, etc can be considered cinema

also unironically using the word weinery seems more weinery than going yeah corporate manufactures stuff that solely exists to print money isnt comparable to movies made with a unique vision

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I don't think joining the Discord is a great idea. I'm pretty 'doing my own thing' about watching movies, 100% of the time, and I have way too many in my backlog to take detours. I'd just be listening to you guys talk about Akira, while I'll be all like "yeah but...have you seen Martin Scorsese's early short films Or The H-Man?"

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Zithers posted...

Pretty bad comparison bc its clear all sorts of different styles of movies, budgets, time periods, genres, etc can be considered cinema

also unironically using the word weinery seems more weinery than going yeah corporate manufactures stuff that solely exists to print money isnt comparable to movies made with a unique vision

That's really discrediting all the people who work in the cast and crew of those movies. They've hired on legitimately talented actors. They hire legitimately talented computer graphics artists, costumers, etc. Even if the directors adhere to certain conventions -- that's not much different than pastiche, or following the conventions of a particular genre. It's also funny if the end goal of monetary gain delegitimatizes them, when didn't Scorsese himself kind of imply that these blockbuster superhero films hurt the monetary gain of other filmmakers by monopolizing theater screens? If monetary gain wasn't the end goal in his eyes, why can't he shoot films on a smaller budget like plenty of independent film makers do? Why can't he abuse the power he's gained from decades in the industry to curtail some of his expenses? How come production companies like A24 are still doing fine and still releasing films that he could give the moniker "cinema" by his definition?

to Be fair only like six out of the fifty people in there do it every week

i mean Ive only seen three I think

i think we provide better daily general discussion than nerds arguing about Star Wars for the 80th time on the theater board tho

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Zithers posted...

i think we provide better daily general discussion than nerds arguing about Star Wars for the 80th time on the theater board tho

But making fun of Star Wars and nerds is so fun.

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That time Scorsese was in a Kurosawa film:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWwkZDBDWyQ

bobbaaay posted...

That's really discrediting all the people who work in the cast and crew of those movies. They've hired on legitimately talented actors. They hire legitimately talented computer graphics artists, costumers, etc. Even if the directors adhere to certain conventions -- that's not much different than pastiche, or following the conventions of a particular genre. It's also funny if the end goal of monetary gain delegitimatizes them, when didn't Scorsese himself kind of imply that these blockbuster superhero films hurt the monetary gain of other filmmakers by monopolizing theater screens? If monetary gain wasn't the end goal in his eyes, why can't he shoot films on a smaller budget like plenty of independent film makers do? Why can't he abuse the power he's gained from decades in the industry to curtail some of his expenses? How come production companies like A24 are still doing fine and still releasing films that he could give the moniker "cinema" by his definition?

I mean blockbusters hold a monopoly over the industry. The top ten movies of the year generally hoard around 1/3 of all ticket sales in a given year. any way you cut that is bad. Im also not saying people who work on the movies arent talented or work hard. But also that doesnt really matter if the end product is ultimately benign blahness.

scorsese also does make concessions with his films by working for scale and not taking a salary since he already has more money than god probably. In addition to pouring loads of money into his world cinema project and the film foundation.

plus I think theres a difference between I need to make money so Im going to make this versus I am going to make this because I desperately want to and no one else will get it right which is generally the difference in this sort of thing. And yeah you need to make lots of money in the BO to keep getting work in the industry generally otherwise studios will lose interest in you and the kinds of movies you make

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I just finished The Irishman earlier this week.

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IShall_Run_Amok posted...

But making fun of Star Wars and nerds is so fun.

you can also complain or celebrate various 4K and Blu-ray releases in our physical media channel

talk about battletoads in the video game channel

Mercilessly mock WSW with us

etc

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