Current Events > Having a legal copy of a game doesnt make getting a rom for it legal..

(+) Yeah! (+)

Where did this come from? Its wrong.

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Who cares?

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wishful thinking and word of mouth
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Why not?

It's from an interpretation of the right to back up what you own:
https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-digital.html

Can I backup my computer software?
Yes, under certain conditions as provided by section 117 of the Copyright Act. Although the precise term used under section 117 is archival copy, not backup copy, these terms today are used interchangeably. This privilege extends only to computer programs and not to other types of works. Under section 117, you or someone you authorize may make a copy of an original computer program if the new copy is being made for archival (i.e., backup) purposes only; you are the legal owner of the copy; and any copy made for archival purposes is either destroyed, or transferred with the original copy, once the original copy is sold, given away, or otherwise transferred.

You are not permitted under section 117 to make a backup copy of other material on a computer's hard drive, such as other copyrighted works that have been downloaded (e.g., music, films).

It is also important to check the terms of sale or license agreement of the original copy of software in case any special conditions have been put in place by the copyright owner that might affect your ability or right under section 117 to make a backup copy. There is no other provision in the Copyright Act that specifically authorizes the making of backup copies of works other than computer programs even if those works are distributed as digital copies.

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I believe someone is able to make a legal backup or something to that effect. Then the rest is just telephone game. Though from a moral standpoint, theres really no arguing against it.

is it 2005 again?

why are we arguing about the legalities of roms and emulators

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s0nicfan posted...

This privilege extends only to computer programs and not to other types of works

Just this here means all game roms are off the table.

When you purchase a Product you agree that you are purchasing a licence to use that Product and you do not take ownership of the Product." Microsoft and Nintendo have similar terms

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It's important to preserve video games.

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How else am I supposed to play Hagane

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The backup/archival copy exception is a very narrow limitation relating to a copy being made by the rightful owner of an authentic game to ensure he or she has one in the event of damage or destruction of the authentic. Therefore, whether you have an authentic game or not, or whether you have possession of a Nintendo ROM for a limited amount of time, i.e. 24 hours, it is illegal to download and play a Nintendo ROM from the Internet.

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LordMarshal posted...

The backup/archival copy exception is a very narrow limitation relating to a copy being made by the rightful owner of an authentic game to ensure he or she has one in the event of damage or destruction of the authentic. Therefore, whether you have an authentic game or not, or whether you have possession of a Nintendo ROM for a limited amount of time, i.e. 24 hours, it is illegal to download and play a Nintendo ROM from the Internet.

So this is just mumbo jargon to say that you can have roms but not download them.

How does it become illegal to use the rom you can own? Genuinely curious since I've never heard this take. I understand how creating the rom is co sidered illegal

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dr_marble posted...

How does it become illegal to use the rom you can own? Genuinely curious since I've never heard this take. I understand how creating the rom is co sidered illegal

From what tc just posted, only the act of downloading it is illegal.

Which is basically impossible to prove.

Theoretically you can do anything if they cant prove it. But also you know you are doing something illegal so.....

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_BIueMonk posted...

is it 2005 again?

why are we arguing about the legalities of roms and emulators

Probably because of the Nintendo/Smash Bros Melee controversy that has been going on recently. Nintendo forced a Melee tournament to be canceled because in order for that Melee tournament to happen online, it requires the game to played on an emulator. Which is probably what re-opened this talk about the legality of emulators + roms.

Srk700 posted...

Probably because of the Nintendo/Smash Bros Melee controversy that has been going on recently. Nintendo forced a Melee tournament to be canceled because in order for that Melee tournament to happen online, it requires the game to played on an emulator. Which is probably what re-opened this talk about the legality of emulators + roms.

But theyre just backing it up!

SARCASM

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call the cops then

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el_cheato posted...

call the cops then

Jajajajajaj

Dont tell em about mix cds, theyd shit themselves

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AirFresh posted...

It's important to preserve video games.

sadly, the actual game companies seem to care less about preservation than the fans do. they are willing to sue people over games that haven't made them any money in decades and have no intention of ever releasing again.

You can make a copy of your own game legally and play that legal rom legally on an emulator. Downloading a rom off the internet is illegal in the overwhelming majority of cases even if you own the game, but its not as if Roms and emulators are illegal or even playing a rom on an emulator

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Rika_Furude posted...

You can make a copy of your own game legally and play that legal rom legally on an emulator. Downloading a rom off the internet is illegal in the overwhelming majority of cases even if you own the game, but its not as if Roms and emulators are illegal or even playing a rom on an emulator

So you have to rip the rom off the cart yourself. If you cant prove you can do that then you illegally obtained it.


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LordMarshal posted...

So you have to rip the rom off the cart yourself. If you cant prove you can do that then you illegally obtained it.

generally, the person accusing you has to prove that you did illegally obtain it. not the other way around

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averagejoel posted...

generally, the person accusing you has to prove that you did illegally obtain it. not the other way around

Yeah, i own all these roms i ripped from the games i own in my house. No, you cannot go in my house.

Are you serious?

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I mean they can't go in your house without a warrant and even that is useless, just because you don't have the equipment now doesn't mean you did not or you could have had someone do it for you.

But, it is moot, as pointed out the burden is on them to prove you broke the law, not for you to prove you didn't.

LordMarshal posted...

Yeah, i own all these roms i ripped from the games i own in my house. No, you cannot go in my house.

Are you serious?

Man I definitely ripped psx games back in the day to play on my pc though that said I don't think downloading ROMs is immoral though it's obviously not legal


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Morally: who cares but legally well, its illegal....

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LordMarshal posted...

Morally: who cares but legally well, its illegal....

I mean this is exactly the opposite of how I feel? Though luckily it seems most people don't really get in trouble for it which is great

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I just assumed that the law was more like that you're allowed to create archival copies of stuff you own, if the original is owned by yourself. but then actually using it (for emulation) goes into a grey area, you could reproduce games but you can't reproduce something that has obscurication like BIOS or the OS of a system.

having an open-source emulator that avoids BIOS/OS of the consoles itself would probably be OK. heck, i wouldn't be surprised if there was any kind of law with the actual copying itself. there's nothing that'd prevent people from sticking a disc in their PC or copying floppy discs, otherwise those would be against the law. People like Nintendo probably already chases around imports of flash cards, which would've made actually copying your games much more harder. (via stuff like firmware hacks or w/e), with software piracy only able to be performed at a OS level, they could probably issue C&D's/DMCAs or whatever as there's no way to get around that, Nintendo also personally identifies each cartridge/download as of the 3DS (?) which makes things obvious which software is a copy.

modifying consoles is probably against the law depending on part of the world. but if a console has lockout that can't feasibly be bypassed by human intervention then it'd likely need mechanical modification. (in the realm of modchips, say PS1). if a console could already natively play games but the only thing preventing it was disabling a chip (NES), or snipping some plastic (american SNES), or swapping the backs (US/Japanese N64), it's probably fine. you'd probably have issues w/regional differences like framerate but that's just inherent with what console you're on and if the game is either coded for alternate regions or knows if it's inserted in a console that's not of its sale region.

Heck, even the Sega Genesis/Mega Drive has pads/pins inside the system itself that defines region, presumably so SEGA could streamline the production process. there'd probably be nothing stopping from someone from say, rewiring something, or add breaks connected to a switch on the back of the console to alter the region or refresh rate. SEGA also has some degree of being modular with individual games itself depending on the region it's played on, like with several Game Gear games like Ristar and the Japan-exclusive McDonalds game Ronald in The Magical World. worst people might face is some kind of Right to Repair/Modify junk or something.

Not a lawyer or anything. but hardware manufacturers would probably try to squeeze any avenue of software archival if it means preventing piracy. maybe more so for Nintendo, who doesn't even uses discs thesedays.

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Balrog0 posted...

I mean this is exactly the opposite of how I feel? Though luckily it seems most people don't really get in trouble for it which is great

Personally i dont care at all but i cant say its legal. If you do it, know what youre doing and if youre fine with that then so be it.

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gamester_12345 posted...

SEGA also has some degree of being modular with individual games itself depending on the region it's played on, like with several Game Gear games like Ristar and the Japan-exclusive McDonalds game Ronald in The Magical World.

What do you mean by that?

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Balrog0 posted...

What do you mean by that?

on the Game Gear, the region is on the handheld itself. but some games like Ristar had levels that were skipped over if you played on a non-japanese Game Gear. whereas the McDonalds game was fully-localized despite being japanese-only.

EDIT: Also, Puyo Puyo, as 'Puzlow Kids', which strangely has a near-identical translation to the english Arcade version.

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gamester_12345 posted...

on the Game Gear, the region is on the handheld itself. but some games like Ristar had levels that were skipped over if you played on a non-japanese Game Gear. whereas the McDonalds game was fully-localized despite being japanese-only.

Ah I gotcha, thanks!

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Idk why some people care so much about it, most of the games you played in the past will never be available again if ever, and there is GIANT chunk of Japanese SNES games that have been dead for a very long time.

Some games are not going to officially comeback.

Its a miracle we even got re-releases of Super Mario Sunshine.

Take for example Shining the Holy Ark for Sega Saturn; I'm sorry to say but that game is never coming back.

There really needs to be grandfather clause because I'm getting tired of this argument always being brought up every few months.


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Kaliesto posted...

Idk why some people care so much about it, most of the games you played in the past will never be available again if ever, and there is GIANT chunk of Japanese SNES games that have been dead for a very long time.

Some games are not going to officially comeback.

Its a miracle we even got re-releases of Super Mario Sunshine.

Take for example Shining the Holy Ark for Sega Saturn; I'm sorry to say but that game is never coming back.

There really needs to be grandfather clause because I'm getting tired of this argument always being brought up every few months.

Its still illegal. I didnt say immoral. If anything its logical.

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LordMarshal posted...

Its still illegal. I didnt say immoral. If anything its logical.

The whole entire thing is grey because video games are in a rather unique position compared to other media.

Legally its crony capitalism or some other circumstance how they're treating retro games that haven't been in the market for decades because

A) The Developers have passed away
B) Studios have closed their doors
C) Studios holding it hostage because "lulz", one example being Darkstalkers that people have constantly complained about since those games have not been around for god forsaken long time.

but no one cares enough to change the laws to licensing, and copyright (you can blame Disney for that fiasco).

Literally we could be having a Retro Console Site that is equal to GOG that has everything available from the worst to the best, but we can't because the system is broken.

But you know what?

I think these Studios really don't care all except Nintendo, but Nintendo's problem they like to Disney vault which is kind of disrespectful considering we're not immortal; the fact it took 18 years for Super Mario Sunshine to be preserved in some way again

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LordMarshal posted...

So you have to rip the rom off the cart yourself. If you cant prove you can do that then you illegally obtained it.

You dont have to prove you can do that because you are always innocent until proven guilty

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gamester_12345 posted...

I just assumed that the law was more like that you're allowed to create archival copies of stuff you own, if the original is owned by yourself. but then actually using it (for emulation) goes into a grey area, you could reproduce games but you can't reproduce something that has obscurication like BIOS or the OS of a system.

Im pretty sure this is just a misconception that the mods on this site perpetuate. you can make a copy of any media you own. You can use said copy instead of the original copy in any way you could use the original copy. So you could insert a copied ps1 game and play it on your chipped ps1 or of. But you couldnt take 10 copies and have them all in use at the same time.
BIOS etc is treated the same as any other software. You can make a copy of your own bios from your own machine and use it. Or you can develop an emulator that plays Roms and doesnt require the consoles bios to work. All of this is legal and morally acceptable
as for modifying a console you bought, thats fine as well but may break the consoles warranty to a certain extent (they still cant deny warranty claims for hardware defects for example)

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Nobody actually gives a shit.

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1337toothbrush posted...

Nobody actually gives a shit.

Real life right here.

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1337toothbrush posted...

Nobody actually gives a shit.

This is true. Except for TC who both cares, and is very wrong

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Rika_Furude posted...

This is true. Except for TC who both cares, and is very wrong

Im not wrong in the least. I care that you think pirating is legal.

Yes, the act of stealing something, not having it, is a crime.

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From what I have read it hasn't been proven in court or not whether ripping your own game onto your computer and playing it is illegal. There is a good argument though, that it is fair use.

Very similar to ripping a CD you own w/ iTunes and saving it on your computer, that isn't illegal.

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LordMarshal posted...

Im not wrong in the least. I care that you think pirating is legal.

Yes, the act of stealing something, not having it, is a crime.

Pirating isnt stealing, and nobody itt has said pirating is legal. Making a rom yourself from your own game you bought isnt pirating or illegal and thats why you are very wrong

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Rika_Furude posted...

Pirating isnt stealing, and nobody itt has said pirating is legal. Making a rom yourself from your own game you bought isnt pirating or illegal and thats why you are very wrong

But arguing simply saying you cant prove it doesnt make it right. Its a very stupid argument for anything illegal.

I knowingly broke the law but you cant prove it!

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LordMarshal posted...

But arguing simply saying you cant prove it doesnt make it right. Its a very stupid argument for anything illegal.

I knowingly broke the law but you cant prove it!

what the fuck are you going on about

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Ironically, recording tv shows was also illegal and also something everyone did in the days of VHS.

I am actually not sure about the legality here in Japan. If you rent a movie or CD you can legally burn a copy and keep it for personal use. I assume games are similar, but I'm not sure. I have never heard about it being illegal to make copies, but I have heard about people getting in trouble for selling bootleg games/movies/etc.

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