Poll of the Day > Did people give P Diddy this much trouble when he switched names?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Pdiddy was pretty big meme fodder at the time for late night shows. As was the prince symbol thing.

I would think Zeus would be the most understanding of this situation since he spent the last couple of years correcting anyone who called Neo-nazi's, white nationalists and racists, Nazis.

Really wanted you to get the name right at those points.

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adjl posted...

As much as people like to perpetuate the whole "zero tolerance for using the wrong name" myth, it's actually pretty rare to see that (at least outside of the bowels of Tumblr, and most people would agree that's not a place that's worth hanging out). The vast majority of people - whether allies or actual trans/genderqueer people - recognize that changing habits and correcting first impressions can be hard and that mistakes are inevitable. What does get met with hostility is not merely making mistakes, but the refusal to apologize or accept corrections when it's pointed out that one has. Using the wrong name or pronouns happens, but that's only a bad thing if you insist you didn't make a mistake.

Of course, regardless of that, even if it were true that there's no tolerance for mistakes, that still doesn't serve as an argument against the respectful course of action being the use of the correct name. It remains factually true that it is disrespectful to ignore somebody's wishes to be referred to differently, and no amount of pointing out what a bunch of douchebags the people saying that hypothetically are will change that reality. The bottom line is to be nice to people, and you can still do that just fine even if third parties aren't being nice to you.

I'm in agreement with most of that, and my personal experience of the one trans person I know is that she is flexible and very laid back about the issue. But that's why I was talking specifically about the online activists, which is what much of the debate centres on. Don't conflate my attitude towards trans activists and allies who try to enforce something resembline a "party line" with my attitude or behaviour towards trans people.

I've only known one transgender person in real life. The way that person chose to handle the issue is that she would happily go by both her birth gender and birth name, or her trans-gender and trans-name (is that an activist approved term?), and as far as anyone can tell, she was completely fine with either. I went by her birth name and gender, because I was a work colleague, and it's what other work colleagues referred to her as, and the name she had on her name badge. Her closer friends and family would refer to her as a he, and would use the masculine name she/he had chosen.

Now this person has come to an arrangement which she seemed to be totally happy and fine with, never to my knowledge complained about this arrangement to anyone. It was in my opinion a more mature and reasonable approach than the more extreme approach of calling out "deadnaming" and shaming or criticising people who may for whatever reason use the birth name/gender.

My gripe is with very online activists who presume they know what a trans person is okay with, or what trans people as a collective ought to be okay with. There are people who, without even knowing my work colleague and friend, would speak for her and behave as though there is one "trans party line", and assume everyone else should stick to it and think the same way. As if I and society were somehow disrespecting her dignity because we had put her in the position of using her birth name and gender at work.

I do not know what Elliot Pages personal view on this is, whether he is taking a flexible approach or wants everyone to refer always and exclusively as he/elliot. If I met him, and knew which he wanted, I would use the one they preferred. I know Elliot Page identifies as he/Elliot now... but if I told my grandma that the main woman in Juno is played by Ellen Page, or was at the time played by a woman called Ellen Page, would he be offended?

Why do some people online think it is okay to act as if they have the answer that should be applicable to all?

My main gripe is people online who treat it with a very black and white approach, as if all trans people feel the same, and this is evidenced by the fact that to this day people will disapprove of you deadnaming Elliot Page even though neither I, nor the person disapproving, has ever had a conversation with him.

You can call it a myth and act as if its the paranoid delusion of some eccentrics all you want but my experience is that the trans person I know was not strongly opinionated on the issue while everyone who has been strongly opinionated has been activists or non-trans people pushing their noses in the business of strangers. In my country, its excacerbated by the fact that if you say something online that one of these activists take offence to, they can report it to our police as a "hate incident" where you are put on a register without any trial or opportunity to defend yourself, and the incident comes up in background checks at employment. The register has only been in existence 5 years, and currently has 120,000 incidents attached. If you are placed on it, there is no system to challenge or appeal it. So don't try and dismiss these debates as harmless non issues that only a few paranoid weirdos care about and have no consequencs outside of the internet.

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Snoop dogg has said before no matter what you can call hin snoop. So hes fine with it.

adjl posted...

And in your busy social life, what have you observed is the consequence of assigning normal human beings nicknames they don't like, and insisting on using those names despite their objections?

We do that to people we don't like, don't associate with, or don't talk to, so we really couldn't care less how they feel about it. The same deal applies to trans people, i.e. the new name is respected in front of them if the person is respected, and the useful identifier is used out of earshot. I call Paul Paul to his face but we identify him as Paul the Perv.
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I love how a lot of right wing folks are always screeching about fake news but they totally believe that every SJW on Twitter is a real person without a second thought

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Kyuubi4269 posted...

We do that to people we don't like, don't associate with, or don't talk to, so we really couldn't care less how they feel about it. The same deal applies to trans people, i.e. the new name is respected in front of them if the person is respected, and the useful identifier is used out of earshot. I call Paul Paul to his face but we identify him as Paul the Perv.

Ah, a group of cowards.

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