Poll of the Day > Did people give P Diddy this much trouble when he switched names?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Im seeing people saying theyre gonna refuse to call Elliot Page by his new name when referring to his older work because he wasnt Elliot yet.

But did we have discourse about P Diddy back in the day? If you were referring to his first songs, you called him Puff Daddy, and then talking about things he did after X year, you made the switch to his second name. And then his third name when he switched again? No, of course not lol, because thats silly.

People making this argument that when they talk about Juno (as you tend to do, every day, totally) theyll refuse to use the new name are just being pretty upfront about not liking or respecting trans people lmfao

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I feel like a lot of things don't matter until something happens with it like somebody coming out as Trans, and then it suddenly matters.

Idk, I still call him Puffy.

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Heck Diddy always had some variation of his name if I recall right. It started as Puff Daddy, then Puffy, then P Diddy then Diddy lol

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Like I said in another topic, people have been changing their name since literally the earliest history of names.

Wonder why they suddenly take issue with it

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"My name is ____."
"No it's not."

It truly baffles me that people seem to think that's acceptable behaviour in any context outside of formal identity verification (and even then, it's not "your name isn't what you say it is," it's "you haven't completed the necessary paperwork for us to be able to recognize that name").

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You are absolutely correct BNVshark

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9LmIxsOJFo

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I never knew who this person was and still don't feel I should have to just because it took this long to figure out what gender you are

Like, congratulations slowass

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I think wikipedia was edited to say Caitlyn Jenner was the winner of the Men's decathlon, but it looks to be changed back to Bruce.

I guess it's a bit different if they are an actor though. They are playing a role anyway. What they identify as doesn't really have any effect on the character.

Soup_or_Science posted...

I never knew who this person was and still don't feel I should have to just because it took this long to figure out what gender you are

Like, congratulations slowass

I dont think anyone cares if you know who they are or not

Like not even a little bit

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It also baffles me when people comment just to say that they don't know who someone is. Like, they don't know this person, don't care enough to do a Google search, but they do feel that it's important that we know all of that.

Is it like a hipster badge of honor?

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Mead posted...

I dont think anyone cares if you know who they are or not

Like not even a little bit

Literally not even a lil bit lol

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keyblader1985 posted...

It also baffles me when people comment just to say that they don't know who someone is. Like, they don't know this person, don't care enough to do a Google search, but they do feel that it's important that we know all of that.

Is it like a hipster badge of honor?

I often wonder about this too. Imagine going into every topic that's about a subject you're unfamiliar with. Most of your AMP would just be "I don't know who this person is" "I've never played this game" "I've never heard of this show" etc.

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I remember the changeover and I thought it was ridiculous, and I hadn't even heard his music.
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Puff Daddy does sound pretty lame by comparison. I think most see it as an improvement.

with diddy, no. because he's a dude who stayed a dude.

with elliot, he went from being a girl to being a dude, that alone just pisses garbage human beings off

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Actually people did and still do refer to diddy by his other names. What's even more surprising is that no one gets offended by this.

I don't really see an issue with others referencing Ellen when speaking of those roles. That history doesn't just die once you decide. Going forward Elliott is his name, but Ellen did exist.

keyblader1985 posted...

It also baffles me when people comment just to say that they don't know who someone is. Like, they don't know this person, don't care enough to do a Google search, but they do feel that it's important that we know all of that.

Is it like a hipster badge of honor?

I was just talking about that yesterday.

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Link_of_time posted...

Actually people did and still do refer to diddy by his other names. What's even more surprising is that no one gets offended by this.

I don't really see an issue with others referencing Ellen when speaking of those roles. That history doesn't just die once you decide. Going forward Elliott is his name, but Ellen did exist.

I dont think any rational people are denying their name used to be Ellen Page

but a ton of people are making a stink about the name change and the announcement that he is now trans in general, just to be assholes

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Link_of_time posted...

Actually people did and still do refer to diddy by his other names. What's even more surprising is that no one gets offended by this.

I don't really see an issue with others referencing Ellen when speaking of those roles. That history doesn't just die once you decide. Going forward Elliott is his name, but Ellen did exist.

Diddy's isn't his real name, it's a stage name.

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keyblader1985 posted...

It also baffles me when people comment just to say that they don't know who someone is. Like, they don't know this person, don't care enough to do a Google search, but they do feel that it's important that we know all of that.

Is it like a hipster badge of honor?

On desktop I can highlight and drag their name to make a new tab that auto searches and tells me who it is in about as much time as it'd take to reply with "who?"

but those people aren't really interested in knowing who it is or what they do, its just a reaction to people talking about celebrities to show how much they aren't interested.

To be fair, when Puff Daddy became P. Diddy, it wasn't accompanied with hordes of boring online activists telling you off if you said he came to prominence as Puff Daddy, and if you called him Puff Daddy after he changed to P. Diddy (Whether by accident or on purpose) you didn't get called a bigot or accused of not respecting Mr. P. Diddy's rights to be called P. Diddy by deadnaming P. Diddy.

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WhatAShame posted...

hordes of boring online activists telling you off

wow that sounds really rough

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It truly is hard to cope with it at times.

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adjl posted...

"My name is ____."
"No it's not."

It truly baffles me that people seem to think that's acceptable behaviour in any context outside of formal identity verification (and even then, it's not "your name isn't what you say it is," it's "you haven't completed the necessary paperwork for us to be able to recognize that name").

It's entirely valid, you just have to understand the basic premise of what a name is, which is:

name
/nem/

noun

a word or set of words by which a person or thing is known, addressed, or referred to.
"my name is John Parsons"

You do not determine what your name is, your name is how you are known. Your name is chosen by your parents out of convenience to distinguish you, it doesn't have any value beyond an indentifying code. If you know you as Elliot then that's great, but other people know you as Ellen and so your name is Ellen as that is how you are known. It's no different to being known as a drunk or a womaniser, it's an identifier.

What's completely unacceptable is to say "You don't know me how you think you know me, you know me by X because I said so." You do not decide what other people think and feel, that is completely off-limits to you and to think you can dictate that to people is completely disrespectful of their autonomy.
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I dont think it really matters much to me because I dont really talk about them a lot. Like, nothing against him, but I dont ever really bring them up in conversation most of the time...

PK_Spam posted...

If you were referring to his first songs, you called him Puff Daddy, and then talking about things he did after X year, you made the switch to his second name. And then his third name when he switched again? No, of course not lol, because thats silly.

Im sure some people do...

Soup_or_Science posted...

because it took this long to figure out what gender you are

I mean, you dont really know how lon it took them, though...

keyblader1985 posted...

It also baffles me when people comment just to say that they don't know who someone is. Like, they don't know this person, don't care enough to do a Google search, but they do feel that it's important that we know all of that.

Is it like a hipster badge of honor?

Thats just normal PotD. Im surprised the owls arent here yet...

argonautweakend posted...

On desktop I can highlight and drag their name to make a new tab that auto searches and tells me who it is in about as much time as it'd take to reply with "who?"

I dont even drag. Just highlight and right click. An option is search with google...
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

It's entirely valid, you just have to understand the basic premise of what a name is, which is:

You do not determine what your name is, your name is how you are known. Your name is chosen by your parents out of convenience to distinguish you, it doesn't have any value beyond an indentifying code. If you know you as Elliot then that's great, but other people know you as Ellen and so your name is Ellen as that is how you are known. It's no different to being known as a drunk or a womaniser, it's an identifier.

What's completely unacceptable is to say "You don't know me how you think you know me, you know me by X because I said so." You do not decide what other people think and feel, that is completely off-limits to you and to think you can dictate that to people is completely disrespectful of their autonomy.

You don't actually interact with very many people, do you?

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WhatAShame posted...

To be fair, when Puff Daddy became P. Diddy, it wasn't accompanied with hordes of boring online activists telling you off if you said he came to prominence as Puff Daddy, and if you called him Puff Daddy after he changed to P. Diddy (Whether by accident or on purpose) you didn't get called a bigot or accused of not respecting Mr. P. Diddy's rights to be called P. Diddy by deadnaming P. Diddy.

nobody gives a fuck what you say or do

who even are you

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WhatAShame posted...

To be fair, when Puff Daddy became P. Diddy, it wasn't accompanied with hordes of boring online activists

Because the internet wasn't ubiquitous enough to have publicly visible online activism.
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adjl posted...

You don't actually interact with very many people, do you?

I in fact have a busy social life, thing is I talk to normal human beings who happily go by nicknames assigned to them by their friend group because a name is how you are identified, not how you decide you are identified.
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https://i.imgur.com/uJbIWg3.jpg

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Kyuubi4269 posted...

I in fact have a busy social life, thing is I talk to normal human beings who happily go by nicknames assigned to them by their friend group because a name is how you are identified, not how you decide you are identified.

This is the biggest lie ever told on the internet.

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Wonder if people are scared of Kitty Pride becoming a dude because the actor who played her came out?

darcandkharg31 posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9LmIxsOJFo

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Kyuubi4269 posted...

Because the internet wasn't ubiquitous enough to have publicly visible online activism.

Well if he did it in the internet era he may have got a lot of crap for it wouldn't have taken the form of a heated debate about identity politics where everyone is intolerant of opposing viewpoints. It would have just been apolitical whining.

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Kyuubi4269 posted...

thing is I talk to normal human beings who happily go by nicknames assigned to them by their friend group

And in your busy social life, what have you observed is the consequence of assigning normal human beings nicknames they don't like, and insisting on using those names despite their objections?

WhatAShame posted...

and if you called him Puff Daddy after he changed to P. Diddy (Whether by accident or on purpose) you didn't get called a bigot or accused of not respecting Mr. P. Diddy's rights

As much as people like to perpetuate the whole "zero tolerance for using the wrong name" myth, it's actually pretty rare to see that (at least outside of the bowels of Tumblr, and most people would agree that's not a place that's worth hanging out). The vast majority of people - whether allies or actual trans/genderqueer people - recognize that changing habits and correcting first impressions can be hard and that mistakes are inevitable. What does get met with hostility is not merely making mistakes, but the refusal to apologize or accept corrections when it's pointed out that one has. Using the wrong name or pronouns happens, but that's only a bad thing if you insist you didn't make a mistake.

Of course, regardless of that, even if it were true that there's no tolerance for mistakes, that still doesn't serve as an argument against the respectful course of action being the use of the correct name. It remains factually true that it is disrespectful to ignore somebody's wishes to be referred to differently, and no amount of pointing out what a bunch of douchebags the people saying that hypothetically are will change that reality. The bottom line is to be nice to people, and you can still do that just fine even if third parties aren't being nice to you.

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Remember when people werent dumb as shit

There have been trans people coming out and changing their names for LITERALLY GENERATIONS

why so much boo hooing and tantrums this time

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Mead posted...

Remember when people werent dumb as shit

No

Mead posted...

There have been trans people coming out and changing their names for LITERALLY GENERATIONS

why so much boo hooing and tantrums this time

They didn't have Twitter to voice their displeasure worldwide

Mead posted...

Remember when people werent dumb as shit

There have been trans people coming out and changing their names for LITERALLY GENERATIONS

why so much boo hooing and tantrums this time

Because when I was a teen I jerked to Elliot Page and now I'm scared

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DrunkCaveman posted...

They didn't have Twitter to voice their displeasure worldwide

they had potd though for a lot of it

and never before have they cried as much as they are now

someone changed their name and doesnt consider themselves to be female. Grow the fuck up and get over it

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Blightzkrieg posted...

Because when I was a teen I jerked to Elliot Page and now I'm scared

I'm afraid that makes you officially retrogay. There's no turning back now.

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^I was going to make a joke about exactly that.

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P Diddy has never actually "switched names," his name has always been Sean Combs. He's alternated between stage names (which have often been used *between* his real first and last name), but that's about it and it's the only the beginning of the problems with your disingenuous, trollish argument.

Otherwise, throughout history when people have legally changed their actual names -- not just their stage names -- you've always had a certain number of people who call them by the previous name. (Not to mention you're making this argument on a board where people *constantly* refer to posters by their lesser-known, earlier names instead of the names they go by now, quite often to the confusion of people who know them better by their current names >_>)

Name changes of any kind take time to get universal buy-in. Even people who want to respect the new name are going to occasionally say the old one.

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It has nothing to do with people occasionally making a mistake and everything to do with people finding any excuse to deadname Elliot because they want to be assholes lol.



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Zeus posted...

(Not to mention you're making this argument on a board where people *constantly* refer to posters by their lesser-known, earlier names instead of the names they go by now, quite often to the confusion of people who know them better by their current names >_>)

fff

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The current name debate is the most relevant Page has ever been.

Raddest_Chad posted...

The current name debate is the most relevant Page has ever been.

what debate

what the fuck is there to even debate about

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Oh, and because the topic makes a direction comparison to stage name changes, I should mention that when Snoop Dogg tried to change his stage name to Snoop Lion and almost nobody went along with it. Nowadays most people don't even remember that. And a LOT of attempted stage names don't go over well and then get reverted, which is another reason why your comparison is complete shit and inadvertently harms your cause (well, assuming that you're not doing it deliberately and with examples that bad, I kinda have to wonder)

A stage name change is NOTHING like a person changing their actual name, and comparing a stage name change to somebody changing their gender is borderline offensive. You're essentially attempting to trivialize the change.

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Zeus posted...

when Snoop Dogg tried to change his stage name to Snoop Lion and almost nobody went along with it.

mostly because who even cared

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