Current Events > One thing that confuses me about Christian religion

(+) Yeah! (+)

Why Judaism isn't the main religion? It came first, Jesus (who Christians believe is the messiah) represented it, and God did too. I understand Judaism doesn't believe Jesus is the messiah because he didn't fulfill all the prophecies at the time.

Then history decided to wreck it and it's people for reasons I don't understand.

---

Proselytizing + Printing Press

---

Evening_Dragon posted...

Proselytizing + Printing Press

Trueee, but I still just don't get it. I feel like I'd be picking the wrong religion if I went with Christianity instead of Judaism even though I'm currently a Christian that's been reading into religion more lately.

---

I don't understand what your confusion is.

You don't have to be a Jew to be a Christian, so they're clearly different religions.
---

Well, one thing is Judaism is kinda exclusive. With Christianity, Islam and most major world religions they typical message is come to our religion and you will get these cool preorder dlcs on the after life. Judaism on the other hand you typically can't just go "I am Jewish now", there is an element of claiming ancestry or going through a much more complex to convert as I understand it. I kinda wonder if this is where some of the phobia branched from too as they seem like their own exclusive group who weren't too open to outsiders? Idk

---

DeadBankerDream posted...

I don't understand what your confusion is.

You don't have to be a Jew to be a Christian, so they're clearly different religions.

They believe in the same God though. One branching off from another seems like one of them is the wrong path.

DEKMStephens posted...

Well, one thing is Judaism is kinda exclusive. With Christianity, Islam and most major world religions they typical message is come to our religion and you will get these cool preorder dlcs on the after life. Judaism on the other hand you typically can't just go "I am Jewish now", there is an element of claiming ancestry or going through a much more complex to convert as I understand it. I kinda wonder if this is where some of the phobia branched from too as they seem like their own exclusive group who weren't too open to outsiders? Idk

I could see that being a turn off, but in the grand scheme of things wouldn't Christian's be afraid of being punished for going against God's original religion?

---

--Zero- posted...

Trueee, but I still just don't get it. I feel like I'd be picking the wrong religion if I went with Christianity instead of Judaism even though I'm currently a Christian that's been reading into religion more lately.

Like another poster said, you are born into Judaism. You cant jsut convert or decide to follow their ways and be accepted in the community. When jesus came he preached Judaism to no hebrews. They are known as gentiles. Because the hebrews didnt want to listen to someone who was considered an outsider. So christianity was born to include those wo are not of hebrew blood or decent. Well that's like the basic explanation.

---

Christian literally means follower of Christ.

Christ is greek for messiah.

The messiah is a huge part of Judiasm.

Basically, Christianity is just Judaism in a way from the Christian perspective.

Jesus was a Jew.
His apostles were all Jews.

Why Christians can eat pork and not observe the sabbath has to do with parts of the old law being types and shadows of the messiah and his kingdom.

For example, the passover lamb represents Jesus dying on the cross.
No need to observe the passover feast after Jesus died.

But if you don't believe Jesus is the messiah, you would think to still observe passover due to the type and shadow not being a thing for you.

Basically, from this view, many things in the old law where do them because I said so.
Many of those no longer apply because it has be revealed God's plan of salvation and those were part of a tapestry of prophecy and metaphor.

yutterh posted...

Like another poster said, you are born into Judaism. You cant jsut convert or decide to follow their ways and be accepted in the community. When jesus came he preached Judaism to no hebrews. They are known as gentiles. Because the hebrews didnt want to listen to someone who was considered an outsider. So christianity was born to include those wo are not of hebrew blood or decent. Well that's like the basic explanation.

Jesus was a Jew and so was his followers. The community that didn't accept him sounds mistaken is all. What if his second coming is what fulfills the prophecy? I feel like despite how others felt about Jesus he was still a representative of God and God intended for Jesus to be a Jew. Doesn't that logically make Judaism the correct religion? I haven't read far enough into it, but does God accept Christianity the same as he did Judaism?

---

--Zero- posted...

One branching off from another seems like one of them is the wrong path.

It isn't like that. The end of the Old Testament is God being mad at Isreal and he punishes them.
But then he says one day he will have a change of heart and the messiah is gonna bring salvation to Israel.
Christianity claims that was Jesus.

Judaism is still waiting for that person.

Basically the old testament ends on a cliffhanger.

However, I will point out this curious verse:

Isaiah 11
10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Gentiles seeking after the messiah is a weird prophecy in that back then the Jews didn't like the gentiles and the gentiles didn't like the Jews.
Yet some Jewish guy prophecied that the gentiles would seek out this Jewish messiah guy.
Yet another coincidence that Jesus is really really really big among the gentiles?

darkphoenix181 posted...

It isn't like that. The end of the Old Testament is God being mad at Isreal and he punishes them.
But then he says one day he will have a change of heart and the messiah is gonna bring salvation to Israel.
Christianity claims that was Jesus.

Judaism is still waiting for that person.

Basically the old testament ends on a cliffhanger.

However, I will point out this curious verse:

Isaiah 11
10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Gentiles seeking after the messiah is a weird prophecy in that back then the Jews didn't like the gentiles and the gentiles didn't like the Jews.
Yet some Jewish guy prophecied that the gentiles would seek out this Jewish messiah guy.
Yet another coincidence that Jesus is really really really big among the gentiles?

I'm not that far into the Bible yet. I'm not sure what a root of Jeese is and what ensign means either. Outside of those is it saying that one day there will be a second coming and Christian's believe it's Jesus and Jews believe it's going to be their Messiah not named Jesus? Since God was mad at the Jews and punished them then does that mean he's pro Christianity or he just wants Jews to learn from their mistakes?

---

darkphoenix181 posted...

Yet another coincidence that Jesus is really really really big among the gentiles?

Yes.

Coincidences are not an argument. And they're mostly made up as is.
---

--Zero- posted...

Since God was mad at the Jews and punished them then does that mean he's pro Christianity or he just wants Jews to learn from their mistakes?

The mad thing is at the nation not the religion. It had to do with idolatry among other things according to the prophets.

Judaism is his invention afterall. Christianity from the Christian view is just part 2.

I guess the best way to put it is like an expansion pack.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%205%3A17-20&version=ESV

All that is accomplished in the above verse is often thought to be Jesus' mission which was to allow for salvation through belief in him by obeying his word and being baptized into the kindgom of heaven which is the church. Basically him dying on the cross allowed for all that.

--Zero- posted...

Jesus was a Jew and so was his followers. The community that didn't accept him sounds mistaken is all. What if his second coming is what fulfills the prophecy? I feel like despite how others felt about Jesus he was still a representative of God and God intended for Jesus to be a Jew. Doesn't that logically make Judaism the correct religion? I haven't read far enough into it, but does God accept Christianity the same as he did Judaism?

The thing is you cant be a jew unless married into it or born into it. Also jesus made a new covenant superseding the old one. It is basically an extension of judaism not a different religion. There are jews who also believe in jesus but still do the Jewish thing because it is honoring what came befor seven though they don't have to anymore. As long as you have jesus in your heart and try to live as sinless as you possibly can , help your fellow man, and love they neighbor your all good.

---

yutterh posted...

The thing is you cant be a jew unless married into it or born into it.

In theory you could become a proselyte.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proselyte

However, you are barred from entering the temple past the gentile court among other things.

https://www.yeshiva.co/ask/253

Jesus came to fulfill the messiah prophecy and told humans that everyone can get to heaven; not just descendants of Abraham.

https://youtu.be/3fBm1a0MChs

https://youtu.be/39fHwaR2P40

https://youtu.be/st3hcemb12I

https://youtu.be/hxCcvCZkaJc
---

Also, Judaism is not the first monotheistic religion. Zoroastrianism is. Judaism even copied a lot of stories from ancient Sumer/Babylon such as stories about it Eden, Noah, the great deluge aka flood, etc.
---

--Zero- posted...

They believe in the same God though. One branching off from another seems like one of them is the wrong path.

The Abrahamic religions are just the Star Wars OT.

Judaism is A New Hope.
Christianity is The Empire Strikes Back.
Islam is The Return of the Jedi.

You won't be on the wrong path if you prefer one over the others. Each has their positives and negatives in regards to not only the movies themselves but their fans' especially.

---

Early Christians considered themselves to be Jewish.

FortuneCookie posted...

Early Christians considered themselves to be Jewish.

Those who accepted Jesus became Christians. Those who rejected Jesus continued to believe they were racially superior simply based on ancestry and genetics.
---

Boyd_Crowder posted...

Those who accepted Jesus became Christians. Those who rejected Jesus continued to believe they were racially superior simply based on ancestry and genetics.

SMAL?
---

DeadBankerDream posted...

SMAL?

Yup

---

Religion isn't about which one is more ideologically pure at its root, it's about which one can propagate itself the most prolifically. Christianity, and Islam, are both highly proselytizing religions that encourage new membership and the creation of religious communities all over the world. Judaism is not that.

The other big factor tends to be strict exclusivity with other religious beliefs. When you posit that your religion is the only one true, acceptable religion, it makes people far less likely to move to a different faith, compared to what happened with the more open-minded polytheism of Roman/Greek, German, Norse, Sami, Native American, Steppe, and other near-extinct belief systems.

---

When the early 1st century church was made up of only Jews, adherence to Judaism with all of its laws was still a major focal point of the first Christian believers. When Gentiles began to be part of the church, it was decided by the apostles that Gentile believers should not have to observe the Jewish laws (essentially become Jews) to be accepted as fellow believers with only a few exceptions (do not fornicate, do not eat food offered to idols, do not eat blood, and do not eat animals that did not have their blood drained).

The rest, as they say, is history.

---