Poll of the Day > Why do people pretend Coronavirus is a big deal?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Total deaths in 2018 in United States:
2,839,205

Total deaths from Coronavirus in United States:
314,000 (80% over 65 years old)

Why are we suddenly so reactive to people dying, when people have always been dying (and at a far greater rate than the Coronavirus kills)?

sociopath topic

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dud posted...

sociopath topic

You're a sociopath for not caring about the 2.8 million Americans who die every year

I worry about my parents who could get it and die.

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Branded posted...

You're a sociopath for not caring about the 2.8 million Americans who die every year

You don't care about them, either.

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You realize that these covid deaths are in addition to all the regular deaths, right?

I mean, why was 9/11 such a big deal? Hundreds of thousands die every year, why should we care that 3000 more died?

Use your noggin

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blu posted...

That image shows, on average, 30% of deaths are preventable.

30% of 2.8 million is a lot bigger than 300k. And, even if it wasn't, think about how much more we have done to prevent the Coronvirus deaths than we have done to prevent these other deaths. Many were/are willing to sacrifice the entire economy -- what a joke.

Firewerx posted...

You don't care about them, either.

Yes I don't. News flash -- neither of us are sociopaths.

BADoglick posted...

You realize that these covid deaths are in addition to all the regular deaths, right?

Yes

BADoglick posted...

I mean, why was 9/11 such a big deal? Hundreds of thousands die every year, why should we care that 3000 more died?

9/11 was a big deal not because of the # dead, but because of the political ramifications / the fear of future attacks, which would increase the # dead. Coronavirus occurs only once, so you can't make the comparison.

Branded posted...

314,000

each one of those is a person that lived an entire life

many of them died alone, not able to see family or say goodbye, struggling to breathe

the fact that you and a lot of other people want to reduce all of them and all of the people that will die from covid to nothing more than a dismissed statistic is outright abhorrent

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Ignore the fatality rate for a moment. Let's assume that with hospital care, your chances of recovery are good. So what's the hospitalization rate for adults who are infected? Because even if you don't actually die, a constant upward spiral in hospital admissions is going to have the system creaking and groaning and splitting at the seams. Staff will become infected and not be able to work, operations and tests will be cancelled or postponed, beds will run short. Coronavirus is a danger not only to people who catch coronavirus.

But hey, who cares about that, because people have always been ill, right?

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Mead posted...

nothing more than a dismissed statistic

What are the 2.8 million people who die every year?

Branded posted...

What are the 2.8 million people who die every year?

dead

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Firewerx posted...

Because even if you don't actually die, a constant upward spiral in hospital admissions is going to have the system creaking and groaning and splitting at the seams. Staff will become infected and not be able to work, operations and tests will be cancelled or postponed, beds will run short.

The # of cases has increased 5 fold, and nothing happened. In fact, the rate of death has gone down. (5x increase in cases, but 3x increase in deaths).

Mead posted...

dead

Nice answer *thumbs up*

Branded posted...

The # of cases has increased 5 fold, and nothing happened.

Go tell this to some ICU nurses and techs. Lemme know how that goes.

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Branded posted...

9/11 was a big deal not because of the # dead, but because of the political ramifications / the fear of future attacks, which would increase the # dead. Coronavirus occurs only once

"Future terrorist attacks will kill more people, but more coronavirus cases won't." Pure comedy gold.

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Firewerx posted...

"Future terrorist attacks will kill more people, but more coronavirus cases won't." Pure comedy gold.

Covid is limited by its death rate. If the death rate is <1%, it can't mathematically kill more than 1% of the population.

There is no limit on the # of potential deaths from terrorism.

Mead posted...

Go tell this to some ICU nurses and techs. Lemme know how that goes.

I don't care what some cherry-picked nurses say. Look at the numbers -- the death rate has FALLEN as the cases have gone up (due mainly to us being better at dealing with the virus).

You don't care what people in the medical profession say yet you celebrate how we're better at handling it now, I wonder what profession that is thanks to

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kind9 posted...

I worry about my parents who could get it and die.

Statistically, they're much more likely to die of something else. And if they're worried, they can social distance themselves.

dud posted...

You don't care what people in the medical profession say yet you celebrate how we're better at handling it now, I wonder what profession that is thanks to

I don't care what the cherry-picked ones say.

Is it "cherry-picking" if they're guidelines that are widely agreed upon in the community?

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dud posted...

Is it "cherry-picking" if they're guidelines that are widely agreed upon in the community?

It's cherry-picking if it pushes a narrative (the hospitals are overwhelmed and people aren't getting the care they need) that isn't supported by the numbers (the death rate has fallen).

Branded posted...

Statistically, they're much more likely to die of something else. And if they're worried, they can social distance themselves.

Except I know my parents don't have cancer, heart disease, etc. right now, but ANYONE can get covid at any time.

Yes, surprise heart attacks and strokes and things of that nature can happen, but for the most part your "statistically more likely" causes of death are things that manifest over a long period of time and usually have a diagnosis or at least warning signs.

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Hospitals don't operate on a "rate" of sick people dude. They have a fixed capacity integer. Even if the rate of cases ending in deaths is going down, if total cases are still going way up then hospitals can absolutely hit capacity

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Branded posted...

Look at the numbers

Look at more than just numbers alone

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Branded posted...

The # of cases has increased 5 fold, and nothing happened. In fact, the rate of death has gone down. (5x increase in cases, but 3x increase in deaths).

In England, the number of patients waiting a year or more for treatment was 81 times higher in July this year than in July 2019. The proportion of cancer patients receiving their first treatment within two months dropped to one-third of the previous year's figure, while 4.4 million fewer potentially life-saving scans were carried out between April and September. You would need to be an ignorant, uncaring, shortsighted moron to pretend that Covid has, or will have, no impact on non-coronavirus illnesses and deaths.

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dud posted...

Except I know my parents don't have cancer, heart disease, etc. right now,

Do you know that? Many who get it find out too late.

dud posted...

things that manifest over a long period of time and usually have a diagnosis or at least warning signs.

Are you really sure about that?

dud posted...

ANYONE can get covid at any time.

Yes, that is true. And if they think it's such a big danger (it isn't) that they want to quarantine themselves, then they should go ahead. But don't ask the entire world to shut down. You do you, and I'll do me.

dud posted...

Even if the rate of cases ending in deaths is going down, if total cases are still going way up then hospitals can absolutely hit capacity

It doesn't matter whether they "hit capacity" (which is mostly a made-up term to scare people) if fewer people are dying....

Firewerx posted...

In England, the number of patients waiting a year or more for treatment was 81 times higher in July this year than in July 2019. The proportion of cancer patients receiving their first treatment within two months dropped to one-third of the previous year's figure, while 4.4 million fewer potentially life-saving scans were carried out between April and September. You would need to be an ignorant, uncaring, shortsighted moron to pretend that Covid has no impact on non-coronavirus illnesses and deaths.

Show me the bottom-line difference in deaths between 2020 and any other year (hint -- they're about exactly the same!).

Branded posted...

It doesn't matter whether they "hit capacity" (which is mostly a made-up term to scare people) if fewer people are dying....

"Longer waits to get diagnosed or treated don't increase suffering or risk unless you died in the last five months." I see we're back to the ignorant, uncaring, shortsighted moron again.

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Firewerx posted...

"Longer waits to get diagnosed or treated don't increase suffering or risk unless you died in the last five months."

We both agree that it increases suffering / risk (no one would disagree with that).

We disagree on the magnitude of it, and on whether our reaction as a society has indeed been proportional to that magnitude (relative to our reaction as a society to other things with much larger magnitude, such as the normal amount of deaths in any year).

It doesn't matter if I know my parents have any of those diseases because, like you said, I don't know. I do know that covid is going around and is much more a known quantity as a current risk so I would rather be worried about that. They still need to eat and have people come to fix things at their house or whatever like any other people. They live in a small town where access to delivery and curbside pickup is more limited and those things are not infallible either. There's just no reasonable way to reduce risk to zero so it's pretty insulting when people say stuff like "well they can just quarantine and it's not really a big deal that people their age are dying anyway".

Lots of people in their 60s also don't have the privilege of being able to not work

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Also what is your ideal solution anyway, from what I gather it's young/perceived "low-risk" people should just continue with life as normal, old and high-risk people quarantine? There's this big concern among denialists over lack of social interaction but we just want to exclude old people socially or something? I don't get it.

At least by taking some measures I feel like I can see my parents in-person more safely, if we had people running around at grocery stores after they had gone to big maskless parties I'd be putting my parents at more risk even though I'd regardless not be choosing to be the one attending the irresponsible events directly.

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Branded posted...

We disagree on the magnitude of it, and on whether our reaction as a society has indeed been proportional to that magnitude (relative to our reaction as a society to other things with much larger magnitude, such as the normal amount of deaths in any year).

Where we disagree is that in my country, the minor inconvenience of having to wear a mask in a crowded public place is too high a price to pay compared to the strain thrown on our health system by the knock-on effects of repeated waves of Covid-related demand.

And eight months is way too soon to pretend certainty about the longer-term trends. Re-post this topic this time next year, and we'll see.

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Branded posted...

It doesn't matter whether they "hit capacity" (which is mostly a made-up term to scare people) if fewer people are dying....

ok, so you make a topic asking people to give you answers, and then when people give you answers, you dont accept them because you dont like them

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I love the TC's trolling.

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dud posted...

Lots of people in their 60s also don't have the privilege of being able to not work

What about the stimulus packages?

dud posted...

They still need to eat and have people come to fix things at their house or whatever like any other people.

And if they're afraid of Covid, they can stay further away from the people who come to their home than they normally would. They can use more hand sanitizer and in general be more careful. They can go out less often to buy food, and when they do they can be more careful than normal or even wear one of the stronger masks. All of those things drastically decrease chance of transmission, without requiring anyone else to do anything different.

dud posted...

There's just no reasonable way to reduce risk to zero

Correct. And asking the whole world to shut down doesn't reduce it to zero either.

FrozenBananas posted...

so you make a topic asking people to give you answers, and then when people give you answers, you dont accept them because you dont like them

I didn't make a topic asking for answers (the title question is rhetorical). I made a topic to make people think twice.

Branded posted...

What about the stimulus packages?

They suck ass

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Branded posted...

I made a topic to make people think twice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il1zid5_lnI

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Branded posted...

What about the stimulus packages?

yeah that should totally cover the living expenses of around $40 a month

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Mead posted...

yeah that should totally cover the living expenses of around $40 a month

https://www.google.com/search?q=stimulus+package+weekly+amount

Nobody is "pretending" anything. the healthcare system is being stressed to the point of collapse.

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papercup posted...

Nobody is "pretending" anything.

I think a lot people are pretending a lot of things, and a lot of people are buying into it

I agree there is no way to reduce the risk to zero, short of everyone collectively quarantining for two weeks, at the same exact time. I also see you agree that there are steps people can take to reduce transmission and that includes avoiding contact.

So again I ask, what exactly is your ideal plan? Cause it sure seems like you're advocating for a low-risk, high transmission pool of people who go about life mostly as normal, vs. a high-risk, low transmission pool who do extreme quarantine. This comes up a lot. But I have to ask, what do you think happens when those pools come in contact with one another? Or if it turns out that the low-risk people aren't as low-risk as we thought? What makes you so sure that we'd be able to avoid those outcomes?

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dud posted...

what do you think happens when those pools come in contact with one another

A very small number of people die (small relative to normal levels of death that we accept every year)

dud posted...

Or if it turns out that the low-risk people aren't as low-risk as we thought?

They are low-risk. That's my entire point. You can't stop living because you're afraid of all the "what-ifs". What if you get hit by a bus? Live your life.

Branded posted...

https://www.google.com/search?q=stimulus+package+weekly+amount

That only helps people that qualify for unemployment benefits right now

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Branded posted...

What if you get hit by a bus?

Then I get hit by a bus. I dont have to worry about spreading hit by a bus to other people, especially folks that are especially vulnerable to buses

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