Board 8 > Suprak plays DANGANRONPA 2 (but for real this time)

(+) Yeah! (+)

SUPRAKS FINAL (?!?) POWER RANKINGS OH NO I'M SAD
16. Fatty Fatty Has No Name, Got Stabbed Quick Though All The Same

15. Teruteru

14. Mahiru

13. Peko

12. Ibuki

11. Hiyoko

10. Mikan

9. Nekomaru

8. Gundham

7. Nagito

6. Chiaki

5. Hajime Ok, so, again, I think these final five are safe. BUT. BUT. Hajime might be the Ultimate Despair Pt 2 and they might have to kill him. I think what happened here is a couple of the remaining members of the remnants of despair infiltrated this group of survivors and did something to corrupt the system in an attempt to bring back Junko. One of them was clearly Mikan. But I doubt she was the only one and Hajime would make for the best TWIST option of the characters left. I actually think a handful of people in the class were likely to be the final remnants based on all the stuff we found while the others were tortured by the remnants. We found clues like Makoto and the others had the remnants are were protecting them, they had a machine that could wipe peoples minds (which they used) and could even overwrite peoples memories. So something happened, Makoto and the others tried to remove the trauma from the people that were tortured, but accidentally let some of the remnants sneak in and they corrupted the system somehow. I feel like the most obvious candidate here is Hajime who 1) isnt an Ultimate, 2) is apparently the sole survivor of the reserve course, and 3) had all this information erased from his mind. SO. Hajime might be a baddie with his gf Mikan. Mikan was all over him when she got her memories back so that could definitely be possible. Or he could be the Ultiamte Hope and Mikan was the baddie and we already killed her.

4) Fuyuhiko I guess Im just ranking everyone else based on their likelihood to have been Junkos second in command other than Hajime. Fuyuhiko would fit the description considering he was the head of a massive criminal enterprise that likely killed people and he underwent a tragedy while at school, giving him all the more reason to want all the other Ultimates dead. Also, it is canon at this point he literally murdered someone in high school as revenge for his sister. It would be quite easy to tempt him to THE DARK SIDE. It would actually make a bit of sense then to have the second case so specifically targeted at him. It makes zero sense to have a motive be hey this one person had something really bad happen to them UNLESS it was needed because it was an important part of the story. It would also heighten his redemption arc a bit if, after he swore to live well because of Pekos sacrifice, he wound up being the big bad all along. He would need to confront that to finish his arc which could be interesting. HMMM. I guess there is a way Hajime could be the ultimate hope and Mikan/Fuyuhiko were the remnants.

3) Kazuichi I think the other three are probably safe for sure FOR SURE. Kazuichi never struck me as evil, just kind of stalker-y and obsessed with Sonia. I also think hes way too cowardly to get involved with a group like the Ultimate Despair. Hes more like someone theyd immediately kill for crying too much. Also if they were recruiting powerful and influential members of society, I think someone like the Ultimate Crime Boss would fit a bit better than the Ultimate Guy Who Can Replace Your Radiator.

2) Akane Akane is way too dumb to be an evil member of a cult. They wouldnt be able to convert her. Theyd try and she would just stare there blankly before eating a bucketful of burgers. She did have that horribly creepy Free Time where she basically admits she was molested when she was younger, but that wasnt in the main game so it would be a bit weird if you needed some optional side content to give context to why the despair person mightve been vulnerable to a group like this.

1) Sonia Shes way too in to friendship and happiness and helping your friends and being awesome. The last time I trusted the sweet cute girl in this game to be on my side she turned out to be a homicidal maniac so I am likely going to be wrong here too but Im ready to be hurt again.

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oh boy oh boy oh boy

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Remnants of These Thoughts And Ramblings
Oh man is this the last random insane theory rambling I'm going to have this game? How sad! I don't want this game to end just yet. Apparently I've been doing this for over a month now but it doesn't feel like it.

Ok so here are the things the game definitely told me are active and probably in this game in some form. There is the Ultimate Hope, some mega amazing person who was the best at everything and was basically everything the school liked. Also he was crazy and murdered 13 other students. Sad! There are also the 15 survivors from the school that Makoto and the others in the first game tried to rescue. Some were in bad shape it sounded like. Then there are the remnants of despair, including Junko's second in command who was supposedly nearly as bad as Junko. Our case is some combination of this group. Maybe.

Things that I know. Mikan was clearly a member of this group. She straight up murders Hiyoko and Ibuki, so those are probably not members of the group. Mikan started giving Hajime all sorts of attention as soon as she remembered what she was, so I am going to guess that not only is Hajime a remnant of despair, he is also Junko's second in command. He might be the Ultimate Hope guy too? Considering that person went nuts and killed 13 people, he might've wound up siding with Junko in her whole quest to ruin everything.

Nagito...probably wasn't a remnant of despair? He said he wanted to kill Junko himself in that little scene at the start. So maybe he was a survivor that was just crazy but not necessarily on Junko's side? I'm not sure on him, honestly.

I'm going to take a guess here and say Fuyuhiko (and thus Peko) were also members of this group. Case 2 and 3 make a lot more sense if it was whatever this virus is trying to awaken the remnants of despair by targeting them specifically. That's why Fuyuhiko gets essentially the motive targeting him specifically in case 2 and Mikan gets it in case 3. So team despair is: Mikan/Hajime/Fuyuhiko/Peko? Maybe one more? Monokuma highlights the fact they need five to get this to work, so maybe five remnants of despair entered the program which is why they need five to get this to work. I have no guess who number five might be, or if there really is a number 5.

So this whole thing is a computer simulation/therapy of some sort. It looks like the non-remnants might've been injured in some way/traumatized and this is some experimental treatment to help them. But then somehow the remnants fuck with things. That guy at the beginning (Hajime?) had Junko in his pocket or something so maybe he uploaded this and then got himself in somehow? Makoto fucked up somehow, is the short of things. From his message it sounds like he isn't necessarily on the remnants of despair's side, but maybe got tricked or a some of those 15 survivors were actually remnants in disguise?

Whatever happened, I think Hajime is a bad guy and just doesn't remember because this computer program erased his memory and they weren't able to easily get it back. There are likely several others we don't know about yet and my money is on Fuyuhiko and Peko. I think this last chapter might be super interesting where maybe Sonia/Akane/Kazuichi have to confront Fuyuhiko and Hajime as not being the people they thought they were.

Yeah I'm definitely finishing this tonight. Don't care how much is left! I feel like I have most of it figured out? There are a couple things I'm not really sure of though.

WISH ME LUCK EVERYONE

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OH!

Something I just thought of maybe. Maybe Monokuma is graduating everyone NOT because the number five matters, but maybe because now the remnants outnumber the non-remnants? Like the remnants were Peko/Mikan/Hajime/Fuyuhiko/Person X where Person X is one of the three final survivors? And now there are 3 remnants and 2 non-remnants and the virus can just try to get the remnants to do whatever it wants them to do by majority vote since this graduation ceremony is majority vote?

Basically a video game version of Mafia. Mafia has outnumbered the TOWN. GAME OVER FOLKS.

But then who is the final remnant? None of Kazuichi/Akane/Sonia make sense. HMMMMM.

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trial hype

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Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

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red sus

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hm hm hmmmmmmm

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While Suprak is obviously playing right now and likley won't be posting for a bit, will take that mention of Mafia to reccomend to any fans of it the VN Raging Loop, which is essentially Mafia the VN...with werewolves! Very good game, also on sale right now I believe.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

While Suprak is obviously playing right now and likley won't be posting for a bit, will take that mention of Mafia to reccomend to any fans of it the VN Raging Loop, which is essentially Mafia the VN...with werewolves! Very good game, also on sale right now I believe.

And I mean, Mafia is basically just a less supernatural version of Werewolf.

(Disclaimer: I quit the mafia community when it started getting into racial politics.)

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

While Suprak is obviously playing right now and likley won't be posting for a bit, will take that mention of Mafia to reccomend to any fans of it the VN Raging Loop, which is essentially Mafia the VN...with werewolves! Very good game, also on sale right now I believe.

This is a Kemco game? Of all the horrible Kemco games they localized through LRG for the Vita, why wasn't this one of them? WHAT THE HELL KEMCO.

I've put it on my wishlist though because it sounds super interesting.

bwburke94 posted...

And I mean, Mafia is basically just a less supernatural version of Werewolf.

(Disclaimer: I quit the mafia community when it started getting into racial politics.)

I've played mafia here for like seven years now, and I literally have no clue what that second line is in reference to.

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HOLD ON TO YOUR BUTTS

This is going to take me like six posts to do so this is going to be a complete and utter pain.

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Suprak the Stud posted...

This is a Kemco game? Of all the horrible Kemco games they localized through LRG for the Vita, why wasn't this one of them? WHAT THE HELL KEMCO.

lol yeah, after beating it my first reaction was "damn, that was awesome, what else have these people put out....uhhhhh, huh...".

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Chapter 6 Trial GAME OVER MAN GAME OVER

• FINAL TRIAL TIME MY BODY IS READY
• We start with a layup of what is this worlds true identity. Considering we found a couple clues that literally spelled it out for us word for word what this worlds true identity was, this feels a bit like cheating. Still no one else knows but me though. Did you guys not investigate at all? What were you doing what the walls turned into a bunch of numbers and you were standing upside down in the hallway? That didnt trip any alarms for you?
• Actually I dont even get to answer the question. I do another terrible Hangmans Gambit and then I start to stutter an answer but Monokuma interrupts. Hey dude if youre just going to answer these please dont make me play the least fun minigame of the bunch, k?
• Kazuichi: If this is a gameare my words being displayed in a text window right now? CHEESE IT GUYS, HES ON TO US.
• No one believes me because the real world frequently glitches out and numbers rain from the walls so who could even tell the difference.
• Sonia points out Monokumas nonsensical abilities would make sense in this context and oh dang I somehow didnt even think of that. Wow this game was pretty clever, looking back.
• Thinking about it a bit more, I feel like this is normally the kind of twist that would annoy me but Id say its well earned. Normally it would feel dumb, but they played with the little bits of suspension of disbelief you needed to have to enjoy the story in the first game and ramped it up enough where I was like ok this is dumb but within the realm of believability I guess. Looking back, I shouldve suspected SOMETHING but they did a good job hiding it and suddenly a whole bunch of the story makes a lot more sense.
• No one wants to believe Monokuma, so I have to bust out my irrefutable evidence of BABE HIYOKO. Everyone agrees she was definitely not that babe-like here so we can finally move on.
• I dont know if it is just me, but I love this. One of the biggest complaints I had in the first game was there is no way they wouldnt notice their body aged two years when their memories disappeared/did everyone have exactly the same hair style/body size or what. This game hears that complaint, gives me the finger, and then actually provides a reason for it. A++ would complain about again.
• I like to imagine a world where someone read my playthrough of the first game and was like ok fuck this guy and corrected that problem in the second game specifically just to spite me.
• To help drive this point home, Hajime points out that even though two to three years of memories were lost, Peko still looked the same to Fuyuhiko. Fuyuhiko agrees that was weird. Also guys, mirrors. Why do you have to rely on how Peko looked to Fuyuhiko when everyone has access to mirrors and would be able to tell if they aged 2-3 years or not.
• Monokuma says that even though were in a simulation, it doesnt mean the things we are feeling arent real. Hajime: So if our brains believe something is realits no different than if it actually happened? Uh oh. UH OH.
• So what is going to be revealed here in the next minute or so is that all our friends that died are seriously forever dead now. IF YOU DIE IN THE GAME YOU DIE IN REAL LIFE.
• Sonia corroborates this by talking about a prisoner from a different country that was strapped to a bed and made to believe he was bleeding to death. It was just water dripping, but he thought it was his blood and he died anyway. Uh huh you know a lot about this Sonia. What country did you say this was again? Uh..George. George Glassistan.
• Fuyuhiko is psyched ot find out this was just a game. Everyone who was killed should still be alive in the real world! Psst. Fuyuhiko. Maybe re-read that part we just went over about the prisoner Ms. Sonia tortured, buddy.
• Monokuma poops on that idea immediately and then does his little Monokuma victory dance at the despair.
• Monokuma: Its not like their bodies are completely dead, so I cant say its a true death but AHA. So theyre mostly dead. Theres a big difference between mostly dead and all dead, I hear.
• *SO YOURE SAYING THERES A CHANCE GIF*
• So theyre like in some sort of comma with all the parts that make them THEM stripped away and lost to the code. Or something. I bet the Ultimate Computer AI can fix that! maybe.
• Monokuma tells them it was all the Future Foundations fault and these big dumb dumbs all believe him. Did not of you find a single clue? Anyone? Anyone at all? Chiaki, where are you when I need you most?
• After I clarify Monomi was the observer (seriously doing all the heavy lifting here, guys) Monokuma confirms that she was only there to monitor the 15 of us. Everyone freaks out because were 16 STRONG DANG NABBIT. Did you guys forget the last trial already where it was confirmed Chiaki was working with Monomi? Hello? Did you guys fall asleep during the last case?
• Sonia: Could it have been Chiaki? Oh thank goodness. Ok Sonia, youre promoted to designated helper now. The other three of you go sit in the corner. Dont touch any buttons unless we tell you to.
• OH WERE GETTING CLOSE NOW. Monokuma calls the Future Foundation World Ender again and when we all say thats FAKE NEWS he says its true for at least the people stuck in here. We demand to see his true identity and he gets all silent. THE SUSPENSE.
• He says he will (Eep!) but that will have to wait because the main cast has finally arrived (EEP!!!)
• Makoto! Hes back! SAVE US MAKOTO YOURE OUR ONLY HOPE. Three of the four people here forgot Monomi and Chiaki were on the same side even though that case happened ten hours ago. Help.
• Kazuichi is excited that the Future Foundation is here to save us but Makoto gives him the biggest -_- in the history of the world.
• Hajime: Isnt he acting a bitstrange? This guys attitudeits as ifhes being cautious of us? Wait wait wait wait. Are we all the remnants of despair? Is that whats happening here? No no no no no. Hold on.
• OH THATS IT OH WHOOOOOOOOOOOA HOW DID I MISS THAT
• So it wasnt one or two or five of us that were the Remnants of Despair. It was the entire cast. Ohhhhhhh and thats why our memories were erased to try and de-despair us.
• I swear these last three cases are vastly improving my opinion of the game as a whole. Looking back, suddenly so much stuff makes sense and this is legitimately a great twist.
• Well now that I finished that Logic Drive Im sure my other surviving cast mates will take this well
• We were the baddies all along. Powzers. Hey thanks for trying to help us but Im 100% sure were war criminals and it wont matter if were reformed or not. We caused the end of the world and murdered millions. Pretty sure the punishment for that is super steep.
• Ohhhh so Nagito tried to kill us all because he learned the truth about us. You know, honestly, I get it. Like still boo you for trying to kill us, but if you have a chance to kill five mega Hitlers all at once you take it, man.
• Fuyuhiko: Why do we have to be treated like the bad guys!? Probably has something to do with mass murder, chaos, and terrorism, if I had to guess. Thats just me though.
• Kazuichi: I-I dont need a twist like that! Nah man trust me its a good one.
• UH OH JUNKO JUST GOT NAMED DROPPED

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• Makoto: In the real world, youre part of a group that cruelly destroyed your family, friends, and even you own body! You know maybe I would prefer to just hang out in this fake world if Im being honest.
• Man imagine finding out you mutilated yourself and killed your friends and family two years before you did it. Thats the most despair-y thing I can think of guys. You shouldve just killed us when you had the chance.
• Welp Hajime just had a flashback to the Nagito boat ride. I guess I was the jerk Nagito was talking to in Chapter 0.
• I have that flashback of Nagito and then I immediately use that evidence in the next Non-Stop Debate. Hey thats some quick evidence turn around time, game. Maybe let me read it first next time.
• I was expecting something much more mutilated than that to be honest. I thought Nagito was just a different crazy person for a while because the whole they mutilated themselves thing. I was expecting like an eye gouged out, ear cut off, nose trimmed down kind of thing. Dainty lady hand isnt that bad.
• Makoto: He probably thought by becoming one with Junko Enoshima, he could make her survive within him. She lives onTHROUGH THIS RIGHT HAND.
• Makoto details all the horrendous things the Ultimate Despair have done. One of the details is that after Junkos death, they forced a bunch of people to commit suicide. The graphic for that is someone shooting a bunch of people with an assault rifle. I dont think thats suicide. Someone else cant suicide you. Unless youre Nagito, I suppose.
• Makoto: Some even tried to have children with Junkos dead body. Ok cool thats enough for me, we can stop with the examples now.
• Makoto explains that there is still hope! If we choose to graduate, we will leave the program, have our old school memories permanently deleted, and be uploaded into our old bodies. Hope! We can return to our mutilated, destroyed bodies in the world where all our friends and families our dead at our hands. ho-hooray?
• Those who had their avatars deleted cant come back though. RIP dead computer characters.
• Thats only if we choose to graduate though. We can choose to stay and keep playing this game forever and ever and also not be transported to our gross despair meat suits. Hmmm.
• Hajime notices something isnt right. Monokuma isnt trying to stop us. Uh oh. I think I missed something somewhere.
• Something is up with Makoto. I think Ive been duped. Hes like NO DECIDE NOW YOURE LUCKY IM SO OPEN-MINDED.
• Makoto: Why wont you guys listen to me?! Hajime: wHy WoNt YoU gUyS lIsTeN tO mE?!
• Yeah this is some sort of imposter ass Makoto. Oris Makoto on the bad guys now? I DONT KNOW WHAT TO BELIEVE
• Hajime wants to know who this Makoto really is. Monokuma: Simply put, hes Makoto Naegi, whos known for being a cutie-patootie! That is, in fact, not something he was known for so now I know youre lying through your teeth.
• To prove this isnt Makoto, Hajime asks him why he made the password at the castle 11037. Dumb question. You shouldve asked WHAT the password was because Monokuma made it clear he didnt know. He might know the reasoning behind it once he hears it. Minus one protagonist point Hajime I expected better.
• Fake Makoto cant answer and disappears in a cloud of failure. Nice try Monokuma. By that I mean TERRIBLE TRY get gud noob.
• So uh why did Monokuma want us out in the real world then? And if he did why didnt he just let us out without murdering 2/3 of us first?
• Uh oh Monokuma is going to transform into his true form! Junko? Is that you hiding in there sweetie?
• AHHH ITS GIANT JUNKO. And she hasshe hasA FLIP PHONE. EVERYONE RUN BEFORE SHE PLAYS SNAKE.
• I really do like the imagery of giant Junko laying behind her phone where real Junko is doing all the talking and animations.
• Phone Junkos first comment is on giant Junkos giant boobs not being as giant as they could be. Never change, Danganronpa.
• Junko: Hey, heywant me to squish you in between them? Big boobs feel good, yknow? OH THE HOPELESS DESPAIR. Well at least we know how she got Kazuichi on her side, now.
• Junko is back because she made her own AI program when she was still alive. Guess she recruited the Ultimate AI Programmer Person to her side.
• Someone uploaded her to the Neo World Program. Im guessing Toko. This is why you dont recruit serial killers on the side of good, guys.
• I forgot how much I missed Junkos rapidly switching personalities. Hey guys lets not kill her this time, ok?
• Junko ups the prize now and says if they graduate she will resurrect all their dead friends. Um. Psst. Guys. Shes definitely lying and is desperate for us to graduate, likely because she will escape too. She just lied to us about this. Dont believe her.
• Uck gross I do not like the weird Sandy from Spongebob bucktooth version of Junko. That one can be banished from here on out.
• Junko is now all its just a game bro and that no one who died in the game seriously DIED or anything like that tee hee. Hajime points out this is not consistent with what she said earlier and her response is basically just hey shut up nerd.
• This works for Fuyuhiko since hes so desperate to see Peko again. This is a very good lie for this final group. You have Fuyuhiko who lost Peko, Akane who lost Nekomaru, Sonia who lost Gundham, and Kazuichi who lost his dignity. Now they can get it all back. Except Kazuichi. Hes well on the road to becoming an incel.
• Sonia again proving why she is the late game MVP. She tried to argue with Fuyuhiko that its important to understand the principals behind it or Junko could just be lying.
• Hajime wants to know what Junko gets out of this and shes like nothing tee hee I swear giggle I just want to help *bounce* and make this more dramatic *wink* Ok guys you see this right here is why we cant trust her.
• When it comes time to press graduate or repeat I press repeat. Then repeat again. Then again. Well, I am repeating something I suppose.
• They wont let me press repeat even though this is clearly a trap.
• Real Makoto shows up this time and yells ITS A TRAP. Its too late and we lose at least two alliance cruisers before we can turn around.
• I TOLD YOU GUYS IT WAS A TRAP. Junko is clearly trying to escape or something. Shes way too into getting us out of here instead of just murdering the last five of us like she did to everyone else.
• Makoto is here to throw hands with Junko and save us, maybe not necessarily in that order. Im only like 75% sure this is the real Makoto though so maybe lets get some confirmation before anyone gets too excited.
• Makoto now must answer to Junko since hes in the program but recognizes the risk and is pushing through anyway.
• Junko: Ugh! You always had such reckless hope! I love you sooooo much that you disgust me! Junko taking a page out of Nagitos handbook and is getting totally horned up on that hope right now.
• Makoto says shes lying about the dead friends coming back to life. Junko does her best puppy dog eyes and goes nuh uh. Akane: Who do we trust!? Hmmmm yeah I dont know tough one. Do we trust the guy from the hope organization or mega Hitler. Really tough choice here guys.

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Suprak the Stud posted...

I swear these last three cases are vastly improving my opinion of the game as a whole. Looking back, suddenly so much stuff makes sense and this is legitimately a great twist.

This is exactly why I respect anybody who says 2-6 > 2-5 btw, because holy shit yes it does. 2-5 is fantastic, but 2-6 elevates fucking everything in this game.

Reg posted...

This is exactly why I respect anybody who says 2-6 > 2-5 btw, because holy shit yes it does. 2-5 is fantastic, but 2-6 elevates fucking everything in this game.

I've got 2-5 at #1 in the series and 2-6 at #3 but it is absolutely true that the impact 2-6 has in re-contexualizing everything that has happened in the game previously, including 2-5 with Nagito's motive, is pretty much unmatched so I can definitely respect a 2-6 > 2-5 opinion even if I don't share it. I'll delve a bit more into that once Suprak is done though because he may well have the same thoughts so maybe I can just go "ya i agree."

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• Junkos real plan here, according to Makoto, is that now that avatars have been deleted, she wants to use the graduation program to upload her mind into the bodies of everyone who has been deleted. Um. That sounds bad.
• Really quick question here Junko why not just keep killing people until its only Fuyuhiko left who is so desperate to get out and see Peko that hell vote graduate no matter what? Why stop at 5?
• Hey no worries guys! Junko says we can compromise because the data of everyone who has been deleted is currently stored within her. She can act out their parts so its basically like the same thing anyway. Win-win?
• Junko: In fact, I have a looooooot of data on Fuyuhiko, so I know some things thatll make you happyI can play a version of Peko thats more to your liking than she ever was! There is something about this line that is so creepy that I hate it and love how gross and awful it is at the same time.
• Junko wants to make other people Junko, so she can then make other people Junko, and make a Junko-Utopia for all her Junkos. Hey dawg I heard you like Junko so I put some Junko in your Junkos.
• Makoto: No, theres a reason Junko couldnt [kill everyone]. Thats why she made you guys kill each other. Oh hey look at the game actually answering my logic questions this time!
• Since Junko took over Monomis role she had to follow the rules laid out for the teacher which meant no murdering the students. Ok, so that explains why she couldnt kill us. Butwhy not just not say anything and continue having us kill each other. Why leave the five of us alive to vote?
• Hey Future Foundation not to tell you how to do your job, but just go around to the tubes containing the dead people and shoot them in the head. Now their bodies are dead too and Junko cant upload herself to anything. Crisis averted!
• Oh duh the shutdown sequence I learned from the vision of Makoto I had. We can do that too and it would involve a lot less shooting of dead human husks. Thats fine too, I guess.
• Junko hasnt heard of this yet. Oh how the despair tables have turned, my friend.
• Woops them tables got turned right back around really quick. Sorry, Ms Junko maam, no offense Ms. Junko maam.
• So she did know about the shutdown sequence and also knew its limitation. Out of the 15 students that started, half of them have to push graduate and repeat at the same time. And theres only six here because Junko had everyone else kill each other. You know, Im suddenly realizing why she stopped at five people left.
• Nevermind UN-WOOPS. We see your Uno Reverse card and play an Uno Reverse card of our own.
• Makoto KNEW that there werent enough people here for that. He brought along his own reinforcements.
• AHH ITS THE ENTIRE CAST FROM THE FIRST GAME ENTERING LIKE A BUNCH OF BADASSES HERE TO SAVE THE DAY
• Oh nevermind not the entire cast just Byakuya and Kyoko. Still that puts us at eight a.k.a. just enough to shut down the system so EAT IT JUNKO.
• Aw man Hina doesnt make a guest appearance. At least we did get real Byakyuya this time hes cool too.
• Byakuya shows up and tells two separate people to shut up within the span of twenty seconds. Yeah, I missed you too, man.
• Hajime asks what will happen to us if we shut down the program and Byakuya goes uh ahem cough cough nothing youll be find mm hmm ok so lets move on. *doubt gif*
• Kazuichi: I-its not just that, we want a more detailed explanation Dang Byakuya youre such a bad liar even Kazuichi saw thorugh it.
• Kyoko, who isnt a damn liar, tells us well just reupload without completing the graduation program. Which means well all go back to being the Remnants of Despair. Byakuya wonders why she would tell us that but were all too busy freaking out to yell at him for it.
• Kyoko and Makoto, a.k.a. the non-damn liars, promise to help us once we get out. Im still not 100% clear if we will remember this part or not so it seems like uh we may just try to kill you guys again, right?
• "We won't remember any of this!" "Don't worry we'll help you." "We won't remember your promising to help us." "Don't worry we'll help you!" "I think we are sociopaths, murderers, and war criminals in real life right now, right, and might wake up and try to actively harm you?" "Don't worry we'll help you!"
• Ok so we will forget everything. Hajime especially doesnt like that because itll mean Chiaki will just be forgotten forever.
• Junko piles on by pointing out we will resume life in whatever mutilated bodies we had when we entered the program. Yeah thanks we figured that part already JERK.
• Kazuichi: Why did we become Ultimate Despair in the first place? Yeah Id like to know a bit more about that too if you dont mind.
• Makoto basically says none of you jerks would tell me so I guess that will remain unresolved. Stupid jerks not saying interesting things when they had a chance.
• Junkos next big reveal isshe lured the members of the Future Foundation here with the killings by recording things with the cameras! ..oh is that it? Are we just out of the big reveals now? Because thats something I knew like right after the Future Foundation showed up.
• Sonia Wh-what should I do? I did a lot ofdisgraceful things in front of those cameras! Yeah I wasnt going to mention this before Sonia but Hiro has already been circulating a Sonia Pooping Greatest Hits Volume 1. Well get to destroying those copies once we get back to the real world, but time is sort of a factor here because hes already working on Volume 2.
• Byakyua: Yousure did. Uh oh now Im curious what Sonia was doing.
• So they couldnt enter the program until just now. Kyoko says they considered cutting power from the outside by pulling the plug, but were unsure what would happen to everyone still connected inside. Yeah, Im just saying guys, if there is a chance magic Hitler could come back and the only people you would be hurting were magic Goebbels and magic Himmler, maybe you take that chance and pull the plug.
• Woops turns out the Remnants of Despair willingly let themselves get captured and put into this program as part of their plan to bring Junko back. See guys? Do you see now why you dont try and rehabilitate MASS MURDERERS AND PSYCHOPATHS?
• So the three of them will be trapped here forever if we dont choose to activate the shutdown sequence. Kyoko is mighty confident that wont happen considering it means the permanent vegetation of three people loved by the people you need to vote with you and also these were bad people in the first place.
• Junko is banking on us chumps being chumps and not agreeing to activate the shutdown sequence. Now were going to do it purely out of spite.
• UH OH ONE MORE TWIST LEFT IT LOOKS LIKE. Makoto says Junko will never make him fall into despair and Junko gives him thats where youre wrong friend-o line. It isnt her job to make him fall into despair. Its the masterminds job. Theres someone ABOVE Junko on the crazy despair-o-meter?
• THE MASTERMIND IS IZURU KAMAKURA?!? You mean the Ultimate Hope/the guy who killed 13 people and started this whole thing off?
• Oh yeah and the founder of the academy too. Thanks for the reminder Hajime.
• Izuru Kamakura is so esoteric apparently that even Kyoko doesnt know if he was real or not. Junko, however, puts on her professor glasses and lectures the hell out of us.
• Whoooooa. Hajime is none other than the infamous Izuru Kamakura himself. That redeems your last twist, game.

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• I dont know if the same voice actress does all of Junkos voices, but if she does she deserves a raise.
• The schools grand plan was to experiment on the reserve course students, hoping to turn one of them into the Ultimate Hope using all their research. Dang, who knew creating a Frankensteins Monster would blow up in their faces like that? If only there was some book that couldve warned them that a Frankensteins Monster was dangerous.
• They rewired his brain through various surgical procedures to make him the Ultimate Talent good at all things guy. Cool. Cool cool cool. I was right back in the first game when I posited this school was actively trying to murder its students. Once it got tired of recruited gang leaders and serial killers, they decided to just cut out the middle man and start cutting into their brains themselves.
• Imagine your kid coming home for winter break with a huge scar on top of their head and a different personality. Thats got to be a lawsuit of some sort.
• So shutting down the system here will literally wipe Hajime from existence since he cant go back. Probably shouldve done a bit more research here Makoto before you tried to de-brainwash these guys. Thats on you guys, man.
• HAHAHAHA they show Hajime in the flashback now and he looks almost exactly the same but with an enormous wig. Its like hes wearing Ogres hair from the first game on his normal body and with red contact lenses. The mad scientists altered his brain AND gave him a hair transplant apparently.
• Welp the despair just got Hajime folks. Game over man, GAME OVER.
• And Hajime was the mastermind who tried to bring Junko back in the first place. Again, way to go Makoto. Probably shouldve had someone watching the dangerous psychopaths around all the computers you had set up for this.
• BUT if Hajime chooses to graduate he will be able to overwrite his brain and get the happy ending he deserves. Dang guys uh Junko is making a good point here. Cant you just go around shooting all the brain dead people so I can get my brain back in my body?
• Ugh Junko is such a good villain I wish she got more screen time than the final case in both games.
• Can you guys even endure that? Everything that happened here will just end up being a meaningless game. Everything you feltawe, friendship, lovethere wont even be save data left of it. The girl you love and the guy you hate grow weaker and skinnier each day they lay immobilized. And in Hajimes case, his very existence is going to disappearall because of the academy he loves so much. Will you be able to endure such despair? Who are you going to endure it for? For people youve never met before? For people who dont even appreciate you? Does that sound like hope to you? Junko coming HARD with the closing arguments here guys.
• We now have to choose between graduate or shutdown and I have to tell you Future Foundation guys that the early exit polls do not look promising.
• Everyone has these good reasons for being hesitant. We wont remember the sacrifices our friends made. Sonia. I just want to see Peko one more time, no matter what. Fuyuhiko. ZOINKS THE FUTURE FOUNDATION IS GUNNA K-K-K-K-KILL US, SCOOB! Kazuichi. COWARD STOP BEING A COWARD YOU COWARD. Everyones hesitation is all noble and friendship-y and then Kazuichi is just straight up I dont care what happens to the world, I just dont want to die, man.
• HEY WHAT IS THIS NONSENSE. I cycle through the dialogue once and then the game just starts eating all my health. Not cool, man.
• Oh, it was a supposed to lose fight er debate. Still not cool.
• Hajime freezes and is like I cant choose either these both suck and Makoto has the nerve to act surprised. Again: 1) these guys succumbed to despair before 2) these guys wanted the world to end before 3) youve put them in an even worse position because you morons let Ultimate Despair upload a virus when you werent looking. This is 100% on you.
• You're asking them to give up everything, effectively permanently kill people they love, and return to a world that hates them and where they are twisted husks of despair and you have the AUDACITY to act surprised they don't want to go along right away? Y'all first game chumps are dumb.
• Everyone is rightly freaking out and Kyoko is coldly like get a hold of yourselves. Umexcuse me lady? Did you hear the part where were going to be erased (again) because you couldnt keep us maniacs away from the slots where you put in USB drives?
• Junko is surprisingly okay with everyone being paralyzed with indecision. She goes from I will UNLEASH despair upon the world to yeah tropical beach party forever we can be friends and eat sno cones. The power of the sno cone. Never doubt it.
• And now were all back on a beach yay! We can just live like this forever and ever and ever and EVER and EVER and EvEr and eVeR and
• I shoot my one bullet at the one thing I can but nothing happens. This thing is RIGGED.
• I dont know who the Ultimate Imposter is, but based on the voice acting here he is a proper southern lady.
• Luckily Chiaki somehow breaks through to reason with Hajime. Jeez, shes been dead an entire case now but shes still the game MVP.
• Chiaki with some inspirational words here trying to push Hajime on the right path. Chiaki: Even if I cease to existEven if you guys never remember me againThat doesnt mean I will completely disappear. As long as everyone continues to move forward toward the future we created togetherI will never disappear. See Kyoko? See how saying something else than get a hold of yourself you PUSSIES might be helpful here? This is giving me Kyoko hate flashbacks all of a sudden.
• All bringing in the three guys from the last game did was now affirm my suspicions that this cast is so much better than the last cast it is criminal. Chiaki out here literally saving everyone because these three dopes didnt have a plan, completely botched what awful plan they did have, and then jumped into the game without thinking to yell at us to do the right thing after we learned like ten different pieces of horrible news all at once. Thank you Chiaki, at least!

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• With Chiakis help I am able to face my self doubt. There is a cool segment where I continuously use Chiakis statement to break through all the negative thoughts Im having. Chiaki gives s one more believe in yourself fist bump and disappears again. ILL MISS YOU CHIAKI YOU WERE ALWAYS ONE OF MY FAVORITES
• Ok guys we got some Junko ass to kick for Chiaki.
• I snap out of it in time to see everyone in full on despair mode. Dang, Junko was going for the despair WR no hope% speedrun this time I guess.
• Through another cool non-stop debate segment, Hajime manages to go Super Saiyan and break through the cycling conversation. Like hes radiating energy and his hair is bright yellow. It wasnt a metaphor here, he actually is going Super Saiyan I think.
• Uh oh for the first time Junko looks scared. WERE COMING FOR YOU JUNKO.
• Shes flailing through a Panic Talk Action and a different mini-game whos name I already forgot. She keeps calling me a bug but Hajime JUST WILL NOT BE STOPPED. Man why is the main cast this game so much better than the main cast last game?
• AW YEAH WE GOT SONIA TO SNAP OUT OF IT. Shes just like ok so we press both of these buttons at once right while flipping Junko the finger.
• Hajime pushing the fact we can make our own future from here on out is enough to awaken Sonia. Again, the world courts that are after you for mass murder might have a *different* opinion on what your future is but lets ignore that for now.
• Sonia: When my body felt so heavy that I could not move, when I felt as though I was sinking into a deep, black seait was at that moment, I somehow heard Hajimes voiceAnd though it was just a flash, I saw it. Like a lighthouse beacon shining across an ocean of darkness, a warm, yet resolute, light. Come on guys Sonia is selling it pretty good right now. Come back to the good side.
• Seriously how the hell is Kazuichi here? Sonia gives her big speech, and then Fuyuhiko talks about how he heard Peko again and cant let her down and then Akane says if theres someone worth fighting its not in her nature to back down. And then Kazuichi is like manthis is sure getting annoying again. Did the game accidentally kill off one of the characters that was supposed to be here and were stuck with Kazuichi instead?
• Likewas Hiyoko seriously supposed to be here? That was a joke before but Im not sure now. Fuyuhiko loses Peko and Akane loses Nekomaru and Sonia loses Gundham and Hajime loses Chiaki and I feel like the Hiyoko/Mahiru pairing wouldve worked really well to round it out. We even see her grown up picture in the end which would make a bit more sense if Hiyoko was the one to see it. Kazuichi just seems so out of place. Ok nevermind that, back to the ending.
• And that should do it for Junko, everyone. We get our end of trial ranking so all thats left is the Goodbye Junko song and dance.
• Monomi shows up somehow to finally do something useful and banish giant Junko to the ranks of defeated video game bosses. She ties her up in a rainbow ribbon, presumably to give us a boob jiggle on the way out, and makes her explode with colors. How? SHUT UP thats how.
• Cell phone Junko runs out of data and she gets goodbyeD too.
• Byakuya: What was that just now? Why did Usami appear? She should have already disappeared. LOVE LOVE. Im glad Bykuya noticed this too though at least I wasnt alone.
• Makoto, Byakuya, and Kyoko all get yeeted out of there and are like good luck hope future guys friendship hope magic. Hey guys just in case get your guns ready in case we wake up and try to kill some kids, ok?
• Ok so the world here is ending and collapsing on us and no one will remember anything. This is the orgy time? Right guys? Time to orgy?
• Everyone says their just in case goodbye and promises not to forget everyone. Aww Ill miss you guys too. You were my favorite group of murderous psychopaths I ever met.
• And now were in the epilogue. Kyoko and Byakuya and Hajime are just leaving. You idiots. You unbelievable idiots where are you possibly going that is more important than making sure this group of mini-Hitlers wasnt lying about not being evil any more?
• Byakuya is like uh should we really leave didnt they just turn back into Ultiamte Despair? Makoto: I dont thinkthats the case. I meanif they did turn back, they wouldnt have said that theyd stay on this island. Makoto you unbelievable IDIOT what are you talking about?
• You dont think thats the case? Dont think? You need to be a million percent sure because these people cause genocide basically. What do you FUCKING mean you dont think?
• Also your evidence was that they said theyd stay on the island? If they were Ultiamte Despair, do you think that maybe just maybe they were oh I dont know LYING to you? How are you possibly this dumb? This isnt evidence of anything. Run some diagnostic tests first man. Stay for like a week or so and check things out.
• Byakuya; It seems that there are too many soft-hearted people here Byakuya this is why you were always my favorite.
• Apparently the biggest most awful most saddest most not good thing ever EVER is still going on some so they need to go back and finish that off. Probably would go a bit faster if you didnt keep taking a month to rehabilitate five people.
• Hey we get a Toko shout out as Kyoko teases Byakuya that someone is waiting for him. So you guys just forgave the serial killer? Didnt think of turning her into the authorities?
• Oh hey Hajime gave himself a haircut! No wonder Makoto thought he got de-despaired.
• Man I was kind of wishing we saw what the other four looked like in their despair husks. Ah well.
• THE END MAN OH MAN WHAT A GAME!
• Hey what the hell why are these all the Japanese voice actors? I wanted to know who the US voice actors were. LAME.
• Well I unlocked a whole bunch of stuff. I think I'll look through here, finish off the platinum trophy while posting thoughts along the way, and then do a final character/case ranking! So I guess I'm not quite done yet!
• CLOSING ARGUMENTS INCOMING

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I thought it was a good idea to wait until the end of the game to tell you that you were right about Hiyoko. From what I've read, they initially planned for Fuyuhiko to die in 2-3, but realized that that would make Peko's sacrifice in 2-2 pointless, so they replaced him with Hiyoko, which is why her death is so sudden and pointless (you never even figure out what weapon Mikan used to kill her, and her relentless bullying of Mikan has zero effect on the case), and why it seemed like she was in the middle of a character arc, and why basically everything would make more sense if she lived.

CLOSING ARGUMENTS
Just imagine the song is playing here I'm too busy to link it.

First off, I love this game. I'm going to go into the stuff I didn't love as much first, but before I do that just know that yes, I fully agree this blows the first game out of the water by every metric imaginable. Never has a late game twist so changed my opinion of large swaths of the earlier segments of the game. What a brilliantly constructed plot, overall.

Ok, first. Loved the story. One minor quibble at the end there: Makoto's plan straight up sucked and I can't believe Byakuya and Kyoko went along with it. WHAT THE ABSOLUTE HELL? You have a group of evil monsters, corrupted to the point of grotesqueness AND they murdered like half the planet maybe AND you know they were Junko's most loyal followers AND the biggest baddest saddest meanest event ever is still going on because of these people. And you try to rehabilitate them?

There's being soft-hearted and then there is trying to rehabilitate the guy who blew up a puppy orphanage and ate the remnants because you think there is hope in everyone. I get that Junko corrupted these people and that normally they wouldn't have turned into monsters. But after you kill a certain number of people, the world tends to stop caring about that whole "they had a tough childhood" backstory, guys. I'll give the logic of "a super computer capable of erasing memories and replanting new ones" a pass because I see the logic there and don't really care about the specifics of it. I do not give Makoto's plan of "hey maybe there's still hope for this group of people that caused the death of half the planet" a pass. Like, theoretically you could say that maybe it helps stop the calamity by everyone seeing these people being reformed into their past self, but I can guarantee all of the parents of dead kids out there aren't going to be going "aw shucks lets give them another shot at this life thing!" That's the sort of logical inconsistency I don't like, because even with the fun craziness of the DR universe, that sort of thing just doesn't make any sense to me.

(It doesn't break the story or anything like that and I still love the plot of this game because holy shit, but that was one thing I just can't wrap my head around)

In fact..uh, the three guys that came back from DR1 straight up suck here? Is that just me. They're rude as hell and being absolutely heartless to the fact we are facing this unimaginable truth. Fuck what you guys went through in the first game, this is pure distilled despair injected straight into our veins. And these three have the audacity to act confused or not understand why we don't want to go through with their plan? The fact we did is a miracle and you owe us for saving the world from your stupid plan that backfired through your enormous incompetence.

Future Foundation was right, Makoto. You're dangerous through your naivete and you almost ruined everything here. Also, my plan of shooting people IRL when they died in the game is a great one and you can't convince me otherwise. Imagine Junko trying to upload her personality in those bodies only to find they had all been shot in the head. GOTCHA, JERK! There seems to be no way to bring them back, and they all say as much. So why not just remove the risk of Junko escaping? Plus then at least these five get their good memories back and erase the dangerous despair pt 2 electric boogaloo they had become.

My final complaints are game related. This was a much better "game" than the first one, improving upon things in every way. But I still have some minor issues.

That "highlight what someone says and use it as an attack" mechanic is absolutely brilliant, but they completely wasted it. There should've been so many good ways to use that to find contradictions Phoenix Wright style, but it is really only relegated to a big role in the final case and a couple of other very minor examples. Man do I wish they did more with that. The consent mechanic was HUGE to improving the gameplay, but this could've been a legitimately fantastic game (and not just a story) if they had gotten that part of it right.

Ok so everyone agrees the mini-games suck, right? That isn't just me? i don't know if I was not understanding the instructions well or if they were just poorly told to me, but I figured out something I was doing wrong in both the Panic Talk Action and the one where you swipe the arguments away like three cases after they appeared. I had no clue you could cut diagonally to hit multiple sentences at once until I did it accidentally, and I had no idea you could swipe in the opposite direction to do more damage until someone in topic literally told me. That's sloppy game design.

ALSO was I the only one that kept tapping along at the button presses for like three cases too long in the rhythm game? I found out by accident you need to hold the button down on a beat, then release it on a later beat to get it to work. Maybe I didn't read closely enough, but I feel like the game needed to be more specific here.

I at least didn't totally hate those though. They were "fine" once I figured out what I was supposed to do. Hangman's Gambit is awful though and it will never be good. Please 3rd game don't have this. Either I know the world and I am literally just waiting for THE STUPID LETTERS TO APPEAR HURRY THE HELL UP I WANT TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT or I don't know the word and I'm just sort of guessing. Like in the fourth case I had forgotten it was a called a deluxe room and instead thought it was a premium room (or something like that). That isn't something I can logic out. Now I'm just guessing at letters until it clicks. Not fun. DESPAIR.

Logic drive was really cool though. I'll give the game that one. And the end of case comic thing was "fine" if slightly uninteresting.


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Anagaram posted...

I thought it was a good idea to wait until the end of the game to tell you that you were right about Hiyoko. From what I've read, they initially planned for Fuyuhiko to die in 2-3, but realized that that would make Peko's sacrifice in 2-2 pointless, so they replaced him with Hiyoko, which is why her death is so sudden and pointless (you never even figure out what weapon Mikan used to kill her, and her relentless bullying of Mikan has zero effect on the case), and why it seemed like she was in the middle of a character arc, and why basically everything would make more sense if she lived.

Really? Is that confirmed somewhere?

That makes so much more sense. Her death is a complete afterthought and it feels weird in context of the rest of the case. I had though (and this is probably dumb) that looking at who survived it was supposed to be Hiyoko and not Kazuichi at some point You saw the beginning of this forgiveness and understanding between the two of them, even though Hiyoko loved Mahiru and blamed Fuyuhiko at the start, and really that sort of character arc makes so much more sense at the end of the game with everyone else instead of Kazuichi, who adds nothing.

Like I said, his "turn" at the end is comical in comparison to everyone else. They all have these grand speeches (even Akane) and he's just like "well I guess I'm coming along too!" Especially considering how much of an ass Hiyoko was to everyone, it would've been nice to see her come around full circle by the end.

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That ending twist is brilliant and I hate myself for not seeing it. Something I kind of wished we saw (although maybe I'll get more in the missing free time segments) is what drove these characters to despair. I had sort of blinded myself because you can really see it for some characters. Mikan has a great meltdown about how no one likes her and how she is always dealing with everyone being rude to her when she's in despair mode. And you can see what already happened to Fuyuhiko with his little sister (and then you assume Peko comes along for the ride). Mahiru was swept up in that too and her friend died as a result, so go ahead and toss her in the pile as well. But then you have characters like Sonia and Akane and it just doesn't make as much sense. I'm fine with them being vague though and it wasn't something I needed. Just thought it would've been cool to see what drove them to Junko in the end.

Something I really love is how that twist completely invalidates all of my earlier whining about the motives sucking. The motives suck because this isn't the same game as the first game, stupid past Suprak. What an idiot that guy was, huh? The first game was about causing despair by showing anyone can be driven to murder. The second game is instead more along the lines of showing these characters cannot escape their past. So the first motive is the promise of getting their memories back, literally tying them to their past. The second motive is a specific event from their past, and Fuyuhiko winds up reacting in almost exactly the same way a second time showing he is very much not changed in any way. And then the third case is literally giving a character her memory back. I guess, looking back as a whole, it is actually the fourth case where the motive doesn't fit. Starving everyone to death is pretty standard, all things considered and has nothing to do with their past selves.

This was a crazy great way to end the game. I guess my only complaint on chapter 6 is it didn't feel as fulfilling from a gameplay perspective as 4/5. Most of the clues were literally just given to me in books or told to me through expository dialogue. I don't know how else they'd do it, so it isn't a real big complaint or anything, but if I was looking for a nit to pick it'd be that.

But the ending three cases really pushes this into all time visual novel/light adventure game territory for me. Like all time greatness. The overall story was so cleverly and carefully put together. I think I'm going to want to go back and play this again in a year just to see all the stuff I missed in those earlier cases that makes more sense now.

Just off the top of my head though, the motives, Nagito's actions in case 5, all the weird magic power stuff I was complaining about, all of this makes more sense within the context of the story as a whole. I specifically remember in the first game when I go to the big twist and I was like "this is dumb. two years have passed and literally no one noticed they're older? bigger? they're in high school. There is no way no one grew in this time." And then this game uses that specific thing as a clue to prove they are in the Neo World Program. How fucking cool is that?

I think I'll stop my ramblings there for now, but I'm sure I'll have more thoughts as I do the post game stuff. Thanks for reading everyone! In the end, the remnants of despair was all the friends I made along the way.

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I also go back and forth between case 5 and case 6 being better. I've settled on case 5 being better on its own, but case 6 retroactively making the whole game better. Like, remember how frustrating and stupid the motive in case 3 was? And literally what the hell with Mechmaru? Yeah.

There are so many times where it's obvious as hell right away, too, but you just don't think about it. Monomi turned a cow into a fucking chicken.

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Suprak the Stud posted...

In fact..uh, the three guys that came back from DR1 straight up suck here? Is that just me. They're rude as hell and being absolutely heartless to the fact we are facing this unimaginable truth.

I feel like you just weren't paying enough attention in the first game if you're questioning this, because this is EXTREMELY in-character for both Kyoko and Byakuya.

And yes, given that Kyoko still managed to be an upper tier character for DR1 really sells the fact that DR2's cast is waaaaaaaaaay fucking better than 1's.

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Suprak the Stud posted...

In fact..uh, the three guys that came back from DR1 straight up suck here? Is that just me. They're rude as hell and being absolutely heartless to the fact we are facing this unimaginable truth. Fuck what you guys went through in the first game, this is pure distilled despair injected straight into our veins. And these three have the audacity to act confused or not understand why we don't want to go through with their plan? The fact we did is a miracle and you owe us for saving the world from your stupid plan that backfired through your enormous incompetence.

DR1 characters aren't great!

Also find it funny how obvious it is that the voice acting in 2 is better than in 1 from this scene. Nagito and Makoto have the same VA, and one of those performances sure blows the other out of the water! (Nagito being Makoto was a huge bait and switch early on in the marketing and early game stuff. In Japanese the name is an anagram for I am Makoto Naegi)

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It was interesting watching you play through the game without catching the simulation twist. To be fair, I think that's how it was intended but for whatever reason I zeroed in and latched on to it from almost the very beginning with the weird stuff and that giant door from the very beginning of the game. I'd say it was almost inexplicable but I've heard other people say they had the same reaction so maybe there was something to it. And while it explains the completely outlandish stuff Monokuma pulls throughout the game it's weird because like... 2-3's Despair Disease stuff doesn't really retroactively become more fun because of it.

AI Junko's goals also explain a lot of your earlier complaints about how Monokuma was being a total asshole with his motives and "court rulings" with basically targeted motives in 2-2 and 2-3, all but forcing a murder in 2-4 by necessity, and ruling that 2-5 wasn't a suicide because unlike DR1 where Junko was "just" trying to drive the students to kill each other to prove a point, here AI Junko had the additional incentive of wanting them dead so was much more willing to bend the rules and be less neutral than in DR1.

So in those respects it was both very fun to watch your complaints knowing that the game actually had a reason for it all along and it would be addressed, but also somewhat frustrating because it's not like we could tell you that and it certainly doesn't change the fact that at the time 2-2 and 2-3 are just not all that great. The payoff is there sure but other than vaguely encouraging you that things would get better there wasn't much more that could be done to address your issues directly.

I also absolutely love the Remnants of Despair twist and how it both puts Nagito's actions in late 2-4 and 2-5 in a new light. He becomes an asshole to everyone after the Final Dead Room because he realizes that rather than Hope everyone there was actually Ultimate Despair and it completely flips the reasoning on why Nagito was searching for the traitor in 2-5 completely upside down. And of course the conflict it presents the characters in the 2-6 decision. The Hajime is Izuru twist isn't as impactful (to me at least) compared to all of the above but the segment where goes SSJ by tapping into Izuru's "Ultimate Hope" and puts the fear of God in Junko is just great though.

also yeah makoto's plan was super dumb but as you point out the DR1 cast just looks even more poorly when compared to the dr2 cast so could we really have expected better from them?

Not sure how ready you are to move on, but I think you might find Nagito's character events (hope fragment? whatever they're called here) interesting. Whether you use Island Mode or just Youtube it I think it gives you an interesting look into his mindset. (Though I've always found it a mite distressing that I always felt I could follow his thinking given that I'm not entirely sure what that says about me)

Edit: Oh you touched on a lot of what I said in the first 75% of the post while I was writing it, whoops!

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Awesome write ups! Cant wait for more Danganronpa

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Hajime cant seem to remember how he got here or why Nagito is standing over him. Think-think-think-think-think-think-think. Too many thinks. Not enough remembers. This isnt gonna work, dude.
Uh oh I thought too hard and entered the matrix.
Is Hajime a robot? Why did he say think seven times, a bunch of what looked like computer code flashed on the screen, and then a flashback sequence initiated at the front of Hopes Peak?

Literally some of my first thoughts of the game, looking back. I had forgotten about this. They literally slap me in the face and I just didn't notice, huh?

Part of it is actually super clever, because they baked in people thinking "well the first game isn't necessarily super realistic so maybe this is just the game being weird". Like there were many times something weird would happen (that cow into a chicken example) and I'd just go "oh Danganronpa, you so crazy". But they were all hints! That's so absurdly clever and literally the whole first game was a set up for it. Not that they had this planned from the start, mind you, but it was so easy to hide this twist when they had the weirdness from the first game already baked into your expectations.

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The minigames get better for V3. Except Logic Dive turns into a slightly worse, slower, more boring equivalent, for some reason. Hangman's Gambit v.3 is a thing, but it's by far the best version of it. Rebuttal Showdown comes back and is slightly different, but not really better or worse. Then there's a decent number of new ones that range from "fine" to "highlight of each case".

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xp1337 posted...

So i those respects it was both very fun to watch your complaints knowing that the game actually had a reason for it all along and it would be addressed, but also somewhat frustrating because it's not like we could tell you that and it certainly doesn't change the fact that at the time 2-2 and 2-3 are just not all that great. The payoff is there sure but other than vaguely encouraging you that things would get better there wasn't much more that could be done to address your issues directly.

It's always such a nightmare when playthroughs hit 2-3, because it absolutely deserves all the hate it gets in the moment, to the point where you could even say it was bad on purpose just to make the flip on it that much more severe.

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Suprak the Stud posted...

Something I kind of wished we saw (although maybe I'll get more in the missing free time segments) is what drove these characters to despair.

Do I have good news for you! That is what half of the anime covers! So get to UDG already, so you can hop into that!

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Yeah in the beginning of the game when it was all glitchy and stuff I remember thinking that they were in a simulation. And that the original characters were playing avatars in the new game (like Akane was pretty similar to Hina in a lot of ways and Nagito and Makoto both being lucky students) but not everything fit. And then I just sort of...forgot about it. So when the last case came up I was like "oh duh I was right in the beginning but forgot...geez."

And yeah the whole cast being the Remnants of Despair and the actual bad guys of the game was such a great twist and blew me away.

MrSmartGuy posted...

The minigames get better for V3. Except Logic Dive turns into a slightly worse, slower, more boring equivalent, for some reason. Hangman's Gambit v.3 is a thing, but it's by far the best version of it. Rebuttal Showdown comes back and is slightly different, but not really better or worse. Then there's a decent number of new ones that range from "fine" to "highlight of each case".

Obviously not gonna spoil it, but the combination of V3 not only introducing the best mini game in the franchise but also one of, if not THE best music track in the franchise to go along with it is just big Ws all around.

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And while it explains the completely outlandish stuff Monokuma pulls throughout the game it's weird because like... 2-3's Despair Disease stuff doesn't really retroactively become more fun because of it.

AI Junko's goals also explain a lot of your earlier complaints about how Monokuma was being a total asshole with his motives and "court rulings" with basically targetted motives in 2-2 and 2-3, all but forcing a murder in 2-4 by necessity, and ruling that 2-5 wasn't a suicide because unlike DR1 where Junko was "just" trying to drive the students to kill each other to prove a point, here AI Junko had the additional incentive of wanting them dead so was much more willing to bend the rules and be less neutral than in DR1.

So i those respects it was both very fun to watch your complaints knowing that the game actually had a reason for it all along and it would be addressed, but also somewhat frustrating because it's not like we could tell you that and it certainly doesn't change the fact that at the time 2-2 and 2-3 are just not all that great. The payoff is there sure but other than vaguely encouraging you that things would get better there wasn't much more that could be done to address your issues directly.

I agree with this 100%.

It makes the rest of the game so much better in retrospect...but it doesn't make the fact I was actually slightly miserable playing through 2-3 because of how dumb the despair disease was any easier to swallow.

And yep I'm going for that sweet platinum trophy so I'll be trying to get through all the free play stuff tonight if I can. I'm still missing a couple scenes that are just ??? from the list so there might be some chapters I need to replay as well?

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MrSmartGuy posted...

Do I have good news for you! That is what half of the anime covers! So get to UDG already, so you can hop into that!

!!!

That's super exciting. Although I hear from reliable sources (you guys, mostly) that the anime and UDG are both kinda meh so I guess I'm slightly less excited (but still planning to check both out).

MysteriousStan posted...

Yeah in the beginning of the game when it was all glitchy and stuff I remember thinking that they were in a simulation. And that the original characters were playing avatars in the new game (like Akane was pretty similar to Hina in a lot of ways and Nagito and Makoto both being lucky students) but not everything fit. And then I just sort of...forgot about it. So when the last case came up I was like "oh duh I was right in the beginning but forgot...geez."

And yeah the whole cast being the Remnants of Despair and the actual bad guys of the game was such a great twist and blew me away.

I was actually playing with the same thing actually! I thought there could be some sort of simulation thing going on because:

1) The cases paralleled each other so nicely. I got completely lost in that theory for a while.
2) I was seeing parallels for the characters too. You can see me rambling a bit about it at some points trying to get things to fit, but I also quit because I couldn't see a clear 1:1 in some places and I thought it was a stretch.

...wait did the parallels end up meaning anything? Or was that just a misdirect? There is a lot in cases 1-3 specifically that mirrors the first game a lot, and you can kind of extend that to the fourth case as well if you squint a bit.

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MrSmartGuy posted...

Do I have good news for you! That is what half of the anime covers! So get to UDG already, so you can hop into that!

The bad news is that what is covers might disappoint you. If you're hungry for more DR, I'd say V3 is the best place to go next.

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Hangman's Gambit is garbage because they're generally more than twice as long in english compared to japanese and they didn't do anything to account for that.

I think the moment that sealed in the simulation thing for me was when Monokuma said he had trillions of copies. That number is impossible but for whatever reason I believed it. And that meant this couldn't be real.

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MrSmartGuy posted...

I feel like you just weren't paying enough attention in the first game if you're questioning this, because this is EXTREMELY in-character for both Kyoko and Byakuya.

And yes, given that Kyoko still managed to be an upper tier character for DR1 really sells the fact that DR2's cast is waaaaaaaaaay fucking better than 1's.

This might be true, to the extent that it has been a little while since I played the first game. I'm watching a playthrough now, and sort of surprised at some of the stuff I don't remember. There are a couple of characters I really, really enjoyed but there's also a huge chunk of the cast that is just a big heaping pile of nothing.

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Suprak the Stud posted...

...wait did the parallels end up meaning anything? Or was that just a misdirect? There is a lot in cases 1-3 specifically that mirrors the first game a lot, and you can kind of extend that to the fourth case as well if you squint a bit.

I think it was mostly a misdirect, but my pet theory is that since AI Junko/Monokuma knows that Makoto and co. were watching the whole time it was actually meant more to torment them by flaunting the fact that she could recreate the events they went through while they were entirely helpless to do anything about it and could only watch.

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Glad you like 2-6. I was big on 2-6 after finishing it, but I dunno. I feel like it does a good job recontextualizing DR2, but as a case in itself, it's not amazing. Better finale than 1-6, though.

I couldn't confirm anything with the Fuyuhiko/Hiyoko theory, but Hiyoko's death was very haphazard and there's also a clue specifically to her in 2-6. Personally, I like Fuyuhiko a lot. He fit the no-nonsense niche that the group kinda needed. Maybe I just want someone to just go "what the fuck are you talking about" to Kazuichi and Akane.

If you continue on to the DR3 anime, you should know that it's split into 2 halves: Future Arc and Despair Arc. Future Arc is chronologically set after DR2 and is about the Future Foundation. Despair Arc is chronologically set before the Evil Truly Bad Really Horrible event or whatever and focuses on the DR2 cast. You're supposed to watch Future 1, Despair 1, Future 2, Despair 2, etc.

Personally, I don't think it's worth it. Ultra Despair Girls is real bad and is kinda needed for DR3. The best parts of DR3 is some portions of the Despair Arc, but some of the worst parts are also in the Despair Arc, so.

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And yeah the whole cast being the Remnants of Despair and the actual bad guys of the game was such a great twist and blew me away.

What was super interesting about this twist, to me at least, was that I had started to piece it together but just couldn't imagine the scope. I had figured some of the cast here (especially Hajime and Fuyuhiko) were secret bad guys but they do a really good job at not tipping that it is actually everyone, imo. There are a handful here I was genuinely surprised by. Like...even AKANE? She's an idiot. You can't brainwash her, she's too dumb!

It is always fun where they give you enough so you think you figured out the twist, but that's really just hiding a bigger twist waiting to come out and knock you upside the head. I dunno, maybe more people figured out it was the entire cast and I was just in denial, but for me I was trying to figure out who it was like this was some big game of mafia and the TOWN was in danger.

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Suprak the Stud posted...

I'm still missing a couple scenes that are just ??? from the list so there might be some chapters I need to replay as well?

I'm guessing those are the extra scenes you get if you have the right gift item in your inventory at the time (like Hajime abruptly deciding to peep on Mahiru and Hiyoko.) IIRC all such events happen before you hit the Free Time section of each Chapter so after you get all the stuff from the item lotto you can pop in and out with Chapter Select to pick those up.

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xp1337 posted...

I think it was mostly a misdirect, but my pet theory is that since AI Junko/Monokuma knows that Makoto and co. were watching the whole time it was actually meant more to torment them by flaunting the fact that she could recreate the events they went through while they were entirely helpless to do anything about it and could only watch.

I kinda like that idea, I think. Of course, they could just be winking at fans of the first game, but at the same time Nagito specifically points this out so either it was meant to be a misdirect or there is something to a theory like yours.

And I appreciate everyone warning me about 3 and UDG. I think I'm going to take my medicine though, knowing there will be ice cream after. So I'll at least try to do these before getting into V3. Maybe I'll just quit if things get too bad.

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Well, if you do watch DR3, I would love a reaction topic. It's definitely a show made for reactions.

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I don't think anybody here has ever actually done a playthrough topic for UDG, unless I'm mistaken.

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Suprak the Stud posted...

Nagito stays behind as everyone else enters the giant Monokuma head and talks about this favorite novel of his where the protagonist turns out to be the killer and the reader doesnt know until the very end. Isis Hajime the killer? Amam I the killer? Nagito this would be easier to follow if you didnt talk in riddles all the time.

Oh right, this moment from right before they enter the trial in 2-4 has some layers in it when viewed in retrospect.

On one hand you weren't wrong in that it could apply to Hajime (though not as the 2-4 culprit of course lol) in the sense that he is actually Izuru and loaded the Junko AI into the program but given the situation it's more likely this is Nagito cryptically hinting at the fact that he just learned that he himself actually became Ultimate Despair and didn't know until he got the files in the Final Dead Room and he's talking about himself (and the others) and the closest he comes to sharing the truth to anyone else.

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SSBM_Guy posted...

Well, if you do watch DR3, I would love a reaction topic. It's definitely a show made for reactions.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

I don't think anybody here has ever actually done a playthrough topic for UDG, unless I'm mistaken.

I could try for these! I feel like these main line games are perfect for reaction topics since you're with a cast of rapidly dwindling characters and you're trying to figure out who dies when. I dunno if these two would translate as well, but I could try at the very least and see if there is any interest to following along in some of the "lesser" danganronpa universe stories.

xp1337 posted...

Oh right, this moment from right before they enter the trial in 2-4 has some layers in it when viewed in retrospect.

On one hand you weren't wrong in that it could apply to Hajime (though not as the 2-4 culprit of course lol) in the sense that he is actually Izuru and loaded the Junko AI into the program but given the situation it's more likely this is Nagito cryptically hinting at the fact that he just learned that he himself actually became Ultimate Despair and didn't know until he got the files in the Final Dead Room and he's talking about himself (and the others) and the closest he comes to sharing the truth to anyone else.

Oh hey that's another thing I completely forgot about. Very interesting. Yeah, that does definitely read like he's trying to tell you "we were the bad guys all along". This is the sort of thing I'm talking about, where maybe I'd get even more out of the story on a second playthrough, just so I could see where all the clues were that I missed or misinterpreted.

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The anime is kinda sorta worth if you really want more and to wrap up the plotline from the first two games, but only if you really want that closure since it's not that good on its own merits. UDG is pretty trashy and pretty optional regardless of whether you want to watch the anime or not, there's only a couple things you'll miss out on.

The anime is entirely optional for DRV3 which is a reboot despite Monokuma's presence (And was billed as such before release, so not a spoiler or anything)