Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 359: Two Scoops of Impeachment

(+) Yeah! (+)

Jakyl25 posted...

2021 was still worse because there was actual death

that's exactly why it's NOT a fair comparison.

i can see that there's some similarity but there's still a huge difference between "let's trash some shit" and "WE'RE GOING TO FUCKING KILL THE VICE PRESIDENT."

---

Corrik7 posted...

You don't ever see me doing that cuz it would make me a hypocrite.

lmfao

---

Corrik7 posted...

BLM looting, arson, riots, etc are okay because I feel like systemic racism exists!

...i hope you're not insinuating that systemic racism doesn't exist.


---

Jakyl25 posted...

I will grant Corrik that its fair to compare the 2017 inauguration riots with the 2021 Capitol riots

2021 was still worse because there was actual death

Capitol Hill shit was unfathomably despicable. Especially because of the lack of police response.

---

Mr Lasastryke posted...

that's exactly why it's NOT a fair comparison.

i can see that there's some similarity but there's still a huge difference between "let's trash some shit" and "WE'RE GOING TO FUCKING KILL THE VICE PRESIDENT."

Another important difference: in 2017, the protests turned violent when the police started unleashing their tear gas and pent up aggression on the crowds, resulting in a retaliatory response. 2021, the police didn't do shit and the protestors still started rioting.

---

Mr Lasastryke posted...

...i hope you're not insinuating that systemic racism doesn't exist.

Not everyone agrees it does, bud.

---

Mr Lasastryke posted...

...i hope you're not insinuating that systemic racism doesn't exist.

I feel like you should know his opinion on that by now, no matter how many studies are thrown at him
---

Inviso posted...

Another important difference: in 2017, the protests turned violent when the police started unleashing their tear gas and pent up aggression on the crowds, resulting in a retaliatory response. 2021, the police didn't do shit and the protestors still started rioting.

That's literally not true. See. Justifying.

---

Corrik7 posted...

Capitol Hill shit was unfathomably despicable. Especially because of the lack of police response.

Wait arent you doing the same thing right here that youre accusing people on both sides of doing?
---

Corrik7 posted...

Not everyone agrees it does, bud.

yeah, i'm sure racists disagree.

---

It's only a fair comparison if you are comparing the people who stayed outside.

As soon as people walked through those doors, they became terrorists, and there's nothing even remotely comparable. The intent of the terrorists was to kill elected officials via hanging. In addition, they had inside assistance by elected officials, making it an attempt at a government led coup.

It is one of the most nightmarish days in American history since it was founded.

---

Jakyl25 posted...

Wait arent you doing the same thing right here that youre accusing people on both sides of doing?

No.

---

Corrik7 posted...

No.

Youre admitting one incident was worse than another though

Or are you ONLY preaching about people that handwave bad things that their side did as not problematic at all?
---

UshiromiyaEva posted...

It's only a fair comparison if you are comparing the people who stayed outside.

As soon as people walked through those doors, they became terrorists, and there's nothing even remotely comparable. The intent of the terrorists was to kill elected officials via hanging. In addition, they had inside assistance by elected officials, making it an attempt at a government led coup.

It is one of the most nightmarish days in American history since it was founded.

Burning down buildings for your political views is terrorism too. Tossing it under a social message doesn't change that any more than religious nuts blowing up abortion clinics claiming it is religious or a matter of life does in regards to terrorism. It's just justifying it.

I agree it was extremely bad and embarrassing, but there is definitely a valid comparison to be made.

---

BLM rioters destroying public property isn't magically any more acceptable than pro-Trump people storming the Capitol, but how can you even view both with the same weight otherwise without implying disrespect for the US government?

And that's precisely what it is. Trump has brainwashed his supporters into thinking the US government is corrupt to the core and that the only way Trump can lose elections is because of that. His base wants a Trump dictatorship in all but name.

---

Corrik7 posted...

That's literally not true. See. Justifying.

Literally true. See, "justifying" is when someone who has been markedly right-wing in their political beliefs makes a false comparison between two different events as being equally heinous. The effect of this is that the peaceful event looks worse, and the violent event looks better by comparison. And then the person making the argument can then claim to be a centrist, despite the fact that all their talking points sure do seem to benefit the right-wing a lot more than the left.

---

LinkMarioSamus posted...

BLM rioters destroying public property isn't magically any more acceptable than pro-Trump people storming the Capitol, but how can you even view both with the same weight otherwise without implying disrespect for the US government?

What is your weight distribution? How many riots buildings being burned, people dying, assaults, properties damaged, stores looted, etc would you think equals a riot at the capitol? I mean, I don't know... But I do know that crime is crime. Death is death. Vandalism is vandalism. I don't know how to even begin to decide what the line or weight distribution is there's. It's beyond my mind personally. But, I know I denounce it all and wish we didn't have a society that does this shit ever.

---

Inviso posted...

Literally true. See, "justifying" is when someone who has been markedly right-wing in their political beliefs makes a false comparison between two different events as being equally heinous. The effect of this is that the peaceful event looks worse, and the violent event looks better by comparison. And then the person making the argument can then claim to be a centrist, despite the fact that all their talking points sure do seem to benefit the right-wing a lot more than the left.

No, they didn't destroy property and such 2017 because the cops made them do itm. Like, you are being ridiculous.

---

Corrik7 posted...

What is your weight distribution? How many riots buildings being burned, people dying, assaults, properties damaged, stores looted, etc would you think equals a riot at the capitol? I mean, I don't know... But I do know that crime is crime. Death is death. Vandalism is vandalism. I don't know how to even begin to decide what the line or weight distribution is there's. It's beyond my mind personally. But, I know I denounce it all and wish we didn't have a society that does this shit ever.

There's a big difference between a direct attack on government and extremist attacks on random public property. Not to mention the motivation behind the Capitol riots was miles more insidious.

A LOT more of the things you'd mention would have to happen to be given the same weight as a Capitol riot. Why do Americans have so little respect for their own government despite their country being the world's greatest superpower? Makes no sense.

---

Corrik7 posted...

No, they didn't destroy property and such 2017 because the cops made them do itm. Like, you are being ridiculous.

If I'm peacefully protesting with a large group that's also peacefully protesting, and suddenly another group rocks up and starts attacking us, and we then respond by fighting back to defend ourselves, while yes it's bad to escalate to destruction of property, that escalation isn't just the result of peaceful protestors randomly decided to cause destruction. It's the result of violence being instigated by the police in that situation, and the same is true with a lot of the BLM riots.

I feel like a lot of these arguments stem from this belief you have that everyone is 100% responsible for their own actions, and there can be no extenuating circumstances in which an outside force acts upon them to influence them. Whereas the rest of us typically see a situation and say "yes, this person is responsible for their actions, but the actions in question would never have been committed if not for that outside influence urging them on."

---

LinkMarioSamus posted...

Why do Americans have so little respect for their own government despite their country being the world's greatest superpower? Makes no sense.

Its because we have a shitty government that has never been good
---

Inviso posted...

I feel like a lot of these arguments stem from this belief you have that everyone is 100% responsible for their own actions, and there can be no extenuating circumstances in which an outside force acts upon them to influence them.

The ironic thing is that he doesnt have this belief at all when it comes to police

Someone potentially broke the law and is fleeing arrest, police have no choice but to open fire. Its like a programming flow chart
---

Jesus fucking Christ

https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1350517778407706628?s=21

---

Wonder how many incompetent assassination attempts against Biden there will be over the next 4 years?

---

Corrik7 posted...

What is your weight distribution? How many riots buildings being burned, people dying, assaults, properties damaged, stores looted, etc would you think equals a riot at the capitol? I mean, I don't know... But I do know that crime is crime. Death is death. Vandalism is vandalism. I don't know how to even begin to decide what the line or weight distribution is there's. It's beyond my mind personally. But, I know I denounce it all and wish we didn't have a society that does this shit ever.

My weight distribution is that a fucking Target has less than 0.01% of the inherent value of the goddamn capitol building.

A statue that got some paint on it is worth about 0.000008% of one capitol building.

A police car set on fire has about 0.000000000004% of the value of one capitol building.

---

LordoftheMorons posted...

Jesus fucking Christ

https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1350517778407706628?s=21

Kudos to the police for catching this terrorist.

---

500 rounds for a hand gun?

Thats a really inefficient assassin
---

Inviso posted...

If I'm peacefully protesting with a large group that's also peacefully protesting, and suddenly another group rocks up and starts attacking us, and we then respond by fighting back to defend ourselves, while yes it's bad to escalate to destruction of property, that escalation isn't just the result of peaceful protestors randomly decided to cause destruction. It's the result of violence being instigated by the police in that situation, and the same is true with a lot of the BLM riots.

I feel like a lot of these arguments stem from this belief you have that everyone is 100% responsible for their own actions, and there can be no extenuating circumstances in which an outside force acts upon them to influence them. Whereas the rest of us typically see a situation and say "yes, this person is responsible for their actions, but the actions in question would never have been committed if not for that outside influence urging them on."

First of all, no this isn't justified. Second of all, that isn't what happened still no matter how many times you say it.

I guess Karen would have been justified to shoot that cop in that video above under your justification. He grabbed her arm and assaulted her for peacefully protesting mask rules! He forced her into action due to his heinous actions! Lmfao. I mean, that isn't even what happened in 2017 anyways, but the justification is laughable. You are never justified to go commit crime... C'mon.

---

Hawley's hotel of choice for his fundraisers has cancelled on him.

https://twitter.com/Loews_Hotels/status/1350507845603778564?s=19

They all but say that Hawley is complicit in the attack.

I haven't heard of a lot of push back against Cruz specifically other than donors backing out, but they will likely come, he just has more clout.

I do wonder if Cruz would have backed out if his objection hadn't been prior to them evacuating. Was he able to refund his objection if the discussion was already underway?

---

Corrik7 posted...

Not everyone agrees it does, bud.

Not everyone agrees the Earth is round, so what

---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Not everyone agrees the Earth is round, so what

It's not a factual issue. It's a theory. You can provide evidence in its favor. You can provide evidence not in its favor. You cannot prove it unequivocally either way. Thus, it is just a belief you have.

---

Oh fuck they got Baked Alaska

https://twitter.com/MikeBalsamo1/status/1350486377230643203?s=19

---

Raise your hand if you're surprised that corrik falls back on the "it's just a theory bro" misuse of language

---

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Hawley's hotel of choice for his fundraisers has cancelled on him.

https://twitter.com/Loews_Hotels/status/1350507845603778564?s=19

They all but say that Hawley is complicit in the attack.

I haven't heard of a lot of push back against Cruz specifically other than donors backing out, but they will likely come, he just has more clout.

I do wonder if Cruz would have backed out if his objection hadn't been prior to them evacuating. Was he able to refund his objection if the discussion was already underway?

Not without admitting the objection was meritless in the first place.

---

Corrik7 posted...

It's not a factual issue. It's a theory. You can provide evidence in its favor. You can provide evidence not in its favor. You cannot prove it unequivocally either way. Thus, it is just a belief you have.

If you can provide evidence for or against it, then it's a factual issue. That is the definition of a factual issue. It doesn't matter if you cannot conclusively prove it.

---

red sox 777 posted...

If you can provide evidence for or against it, then it's a factual issue. That is the definition of a factual issue. It doesn't matter if you cannot conclusively prove it.

It isn't a provable fact.

---

Corrik7 posted...

It isn't a provable fact.

But very few things are provable. For instance, prove the world is round rather than flat. See if you can do it. I am confident that for every piece of evidence you come up with I can come up with an argument for why it's not conclusive.

---

Goddamn who brought science into a politics thread, because that's where I get really mad.
I am pretty sure it is provable. To the people who went out into space it definitely is, but there's plenty of measure tests back on earth that show the planet is curved.
---

red sox 777 posted...

But very few things are provable. For instance, prove the world is round rather than flat. See if you can do it. I am confident that for every piece of evidence you come up with I can come up with an argument for why it's not conclusive.

This is the definition of being stupid tbh

---

red sox 777 posted...

But very few things are provable. For instance, prove the world is round rather than flat. See if you can do it. I am confident that for every piece of evidence you come up with I can come up with an argument for why it's not conclusive.

You can feel free to make it your political platform as you see fit and destroy buildings or kill people over it, and you would be a terrorist, just the same.

Do you have a point somewhere? It is not factual that systemic racism exists. A lot of the evidence provided for why systemic racism exists does not actually really even provide much support of anything regarding it at all. It would be like me throwing up a study showing that like 80+% of NBA players are African-Amerkcan or some shit and saying SEE - Systemic racism exists in the NBA.

Much of the supporting evidence compiled always leaves out context or other factors. It's a never ending debate because it is simply a theory with no compelling evidence. People simply believe what they want to believe regarding it.

---

htaeD posted...

Goddamn who brought science into a politics thread, because that's where I get really mad.
I am pretty sure it is provable. To the people who went out into space it definitely is, but there's plenty of measure tests back on earth that show the planet is curved.

Redsox was aiming for a semantics gotcha. It was easy to avoid knowing it was coming


---

Corrik7 posted...

You can feel free to make it your political platform as you see fit and destroy buildings or kill people over it, and you would be a terrorist, just the same.

Do you have a point somewhere? It is not factual that systemic racism exists. A lot of the evidence provided for why systemic racism exists does not actually really even provide much support of anything regarding it at all. It would be like me throwing up a study showing that like 80+% of NBA players are African-Amerkcan or some shit and saying SEE - Systemic racism exists in the NBA.

Much of the supporting evidence compiled always leaves out context or other factors. It's a never ending debate because it is simply a theory with no compelling evidence. People simply believe what they want to believe regarding it.

No, you showing one contextless fact versus decades of observation and research are not the same. What a strange thing to say lol.

---

htaeD posted...

I am pretty sure it is provable. To the people who went out into space it definitely is, but there's plenty of measure tests back on earth that show the planet is curved.

what if the earth is flat but we're the ones who are curved and we just don't know it and that's why the results come back as though something is curved

makes you think

---

Corrik7 posted...

It would be like me throwing up a study showing that like 80+% of NBA players are African-Amerkcan or some s*** and saying SEE - Systemic racism exists in the NBA.

Uhhhh it does
---

Jakyl25 posted...

Uhhhh it does

He is not ready for that conversation.

---

Corrik7 posted...

You can feel free to make it your political platform as you see fit and destroy buildings or kill people over it, and you would be a terrorist, just the same.

Unless you actually are President and send troops to go do it in other countries, then its patriotic
---

DoomTheGyarados posted...

No, you showing one contextless fact versus decades of observation and research are not the same. What a strange thing to say lol.

We have this discussion all the time, and it always boils down to crime rates, random articles of multiple offenders sentenced more conveyed wrong, and police force rates.

It almost always leaves out causes of police force rates. It almost always leaves out corroborating factors. It almost always seems to purposely shy away from economic and environment factors.

Then it goes from in regards to police to across society, which again at this point the entire argument keeps shifting over and over.

I ain't going to waste my time debating it with yinz again. We already know where we stand on it. You think color of skin is the issue. I say economics. Is what it is.

---

Jakyl25 posted...

Unless you actually are President and send troops to go do it in other countries, then its patriotic

Every military issue in all of time is terrorism under that thinking. And every leader is a war criminal. We know.

---

Corrik7 posted...

I ain't going to waste my time debating it with yinz again. We already know where we stand on it. You think color of skin is the issue. I say economics. Is what it is.

What if I told you about this radical idea that both of those things are connected?

---

Corrik7 posted...

We have this discussion all the time, and it always boils down to crime rates, random articles of multiple offenders sentenced more conveyed wrong, and police force rates.

It almost always leaves out causes of police force rates. It almost always leaves out corroborating factors. It almost always seems to purposely shy away from economic and environment factors.

Then it goes from in regards to police to across society, which again at this point the entire argument keeps shifting over and over.

I ain't going to waste my time debating it with yinz again. We already know where we stand on it. You think color of skin is the issue. I say economics. Is what it is.

Its almost like all of these things are related and theres a confluence of inequalities that play out constantly perpetuating cycles of systemic abuse
---