Current Events > No surprises ~~ The most innovative countries in the world are Bernie-States..

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-03/south-korea-leads-world-in-innovation-u-s-drops-out-of-top-10

https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/is.HB.E4Wgz0/v0/-1x-1.jpg


All 10 countries ahead of the US are heavily social-democratic politically. The Top 12-23 are also more socialist than the US.

Let's face it-- liberal democratic economics is superior if you want to push for innovation. The more right-winged you are, the more likely you'll regress like the US .

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Your BBT main got banned
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not sure the policies of China and Singapore are "liberal democratic"

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Doe posted...

not sure the policies of China and Singapore are "liberal democratic"

I wasn't trying to say that all 24 countries are liberal democratic, but definitely more socialist.

Singapore, however, definitely has a ton of social-democratic policies.

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I dunno how this score is measured, but a difference of a few percentage seems negligible.

I mean, unless the point only is to be "da best" and not have a solidly innovative private sector.
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Are we labeling other first world countries Bernie states now?

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https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2018/07/08/sorry-bernie-bros-but-nordic-countries-are-not-socialist/

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s0nicfan posted...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2018/07/08/sorry-bernie-bros-but-nordic-countries-are-not-socialist/

"Then let's be whatever you want to call it. It works"

Republicans: "Wtf no, that's socialism. Do you want to turn into Venezuela?"

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JBaLLEN66 posted...

Are we labeling other first world countries Bernie states now?

Yes. Because those are the countries whose policies that Bernie wants to emulate for the US.

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s0nicfan posted...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2018/07/08/sorry-bernie-bros-but-nordic-countries-are-not-socialist/

So you're admitting that Bernie isn't a socialist, then?

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lydiaquayle posted...

So you're admitting that Bernie isn't a socialist, then?

My problem with Bernie isn't that he's a "socialist." My problem is that he's full of hot air. That should have been abundantly clear to everybody during the primaries when he released his policy proposal a week apart from his tax proposal and his tax proposal covered less than half of what his policies would have cost.

He's a wonderful, principled man who is fighting for things he believes in, but every time I've seen an attempt to convert those principles to policy they are riddled with holes that nobody ever tries to address. It's not enough to simply say we should do this. It has to actually work.

The Nordic countries execute on policy in a significantly different way than Bernie has proposed so if we want to adapt Nordic policies let's talk about that. If we want to adopt Bernie's policies, that's a separate issue entirely, regardless of what label you want to give him.

Also:
[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


At various points across his life, yes. There are video clips so it's not like it's some sort of conspiracy theory. He used to be pretty open about it.

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ohhhhhhhhhh bernietalk

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lydiaquayle posted...

All 10 countries ahead of the US are heavily social-democratic politically.

nope

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s0nicfan posted...

My problem with Bernie isn't that he's a "socialist." My problem is that he's full of hot air. That should have been abundantly clear to everybody during the primaries when he released his policy proposal a week apart from his tax proposal and his tax proposal covered less than half of what his policies would have cost.

He's a wonderful, principled man who is fighting for things he believes in, but every time I've seen an attempt to convert those principles to policy they are riddled with holes that nobody ever tries to address. It's not enough to simply say we should do this. It has to actually work.

The Nordic countries execute on policy in a significantly different way than Bernie has proposed so if we want to adapt Nordic policies let's talk about that. If we want to adopt Bernie's policies, that's a separate issue entirely, regardless of what label you want to give him.

Also:

At various points across his life, yes. There are video clips so it's not like it's some sort of conspiracy theory. He used to be pretty open about it.

correct me if im wrong but I always took that to mean heres a list of what Id like, lets generate a conversation and begin implementing what we can while shifting towards being able to sustain that while implementing the others

as a step by step process, largely because we need massive reform. I never took it as lets do x y and z but heres the budget I wanna fund them on.

as in playing politics while trying to point us in the right direction.

Was I wrong though? Theres a lot of misinformation so he might have really been crazy in scope and I just heard people tailor it down.

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lydiaquayle posted...

Yes. Because those are the countries whose policies that Bernie wants to emulate for the US.

what policies?

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the bernie ones

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tote_all posted...

This makes it sound like it was a long time ago. Anything current? Can you post any of them?

Here's a nice summary article and a WaPo video that collects many of them:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/will-sanders-long-ago-praise-socialist-regimes-hurt-democrats-november-n1139811

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ad-v0qpB3A


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JBaLLEN66 posted...

what policies?

so memes lol

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Zeeak4444 posted...

correct me if im wrong but I always took that to mean heres a list of what Id like, lets generate a conversation and begin implementing what we can while shifting towards being able to sustain that while implementing the others

as a step by step process, largely because we need massive reform. I never took it as lets do x y and z but heres the budget I wanna fund them on.

as in playing politics while trying to point us in the right direction.

Was I wrong though? Theres a lot of misinformation so he might have really been crazy in scope and I just heard people tailor it down.

They were policy proposal documents released as part of a presidential campaign with dollar amounts associated with each, paired with a comprehensive tax policy plan for paying for them. A few bullets on a campaign website is "a list of what I'd like" but the campaign documents are supposed to be details on explicitly what he was going to do and how to do it. These were released in the same period Warren was releasing policy proposals detailed enough to be copy-pasted into draft law. It showed either a fundamental inability to actually explain how to make his goals happen, or a fundamental lack of effort.

EDIT: some analysis:
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/22/wharton-study-bernie-sanders-wealth-tax-would-fall-1-trillion-shy.html

It found that the Sanders wealth tax would raise $2.8 trillion to $3.3 trillion over 10 years, about $1 trillion to $1.5 trillion shy of what the campaign projects.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-25/sanders-releases-proposed-funding-plan-still-trillions-short

Bernie Sanders outlined the estimated costs of his ambitious proposals and where he intends to get the money to fund them, under pressure from rivals for transparency. But on Medicare for All, at least, hes about $12.5 trillion short.

Sanderss agenda of massive federal spending is facing renewed scrutiny since he has earned front-runner status by winning the popular vote in Iowa and the contests in New Hampshire and Nevada.

Late Monday, the Vermont senator outlined funding for Medicare for All, the Green New Deal, College for All and canceling student debt, expanding Social Security, eliminating medical debt, Housing for All and Universal Childcare/Pre-K. Most of the money comes from additional taxes, but the numbers do not add up.

For example, Sanders has not disputed estimates that his Medicare for All will cost $30 trillion over the next decade, but his document only accounts for about $17.5 trillion.

EDIT x2:
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/05/09/bernie-sanders-budget-would-add-21-trillion-to-debt-analysis.html

Presidential contender Bernie Sanders broadly progressive tax and spending proposals would add a whopping $21 trillion to the national debt over the next decade, according to a joint analysis released Monday.

That amount far exceeds the $14 trillion in debt currently owed by the federal government.

Sanders proposals would cost $33.3 trillion in new spending, mostly from his health-care proposals more than double the $15.3 trillion in new taxes, mostly on wealthier American households, that he proposes if hes elected president, according to the analysis by the Tax Policy Center.

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i still can't get over tc seeing those 10 countries and thinking it's reasonable to call them "bernie states"

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Choco posted...

nope

Yep, including Singapore.

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Imagine calling a country that, by law, has signs detailing church services at the entrance to every tiniest village, liberal
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lydiaquayle posted...

Yep, including Singapore.

please explain how germany and switzerland are "heavily social-democratic"

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@s0nicfan posted...

They were policy proposal documents released as part of a presidential campaign with dollar amounts associated with each, paired with a comprehensive tax policy plan for paying for them. A few bullets on a campaign website is "a list of what I'd like" but the campaign documents are supposed to be details on explicitly what he was going to do and how to do it. These were released in the same period Warren was releasing policy proposals detailed enough to be copy-pasted into draft law. It showed either a fundamental inability to actually explain how to make his goals happen, or a fundamental lack of effort.

EDIT: some analysis:
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/22/wharton-study-bernie-sanders-wealth-tax-would-fall-1-trillion-shy.html
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-25/sanders-releases-proposed-funding-plan-still-trillions-short

EDIT x2:
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/05/09/bernie-sanders-budget-would-add-21-trillion-to-debt-analysis.html

just saw this, sorry so late. I stand corrected, thank you for taking the time to put that all together. I certainly see where youre coming from now.

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Choco posted...

please explain how germany and switzerland are "heavily social-democratic"

@lydiaquayle still no answer after 2 days?

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Arent a lot of Bernies policies like pretty far left, even in Europes standards? Like the weird tax the rich stuff?

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Tanon did nothing wrong

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