Board 8 > Wandavision 2: MCU Boogaloo

(+) Yeah! (+)

LeonhartFour posted...

so as someone who is unfamiliar with most Marvel comics how did this episode set up Doctor Strange 2?

agatha said wanda is more powerful than the sorcerer supreme. "sorcerer supreme" is doctor strange's mantle.

don't know if that counts as "setting up" doctor strange 2 but it's a reference, at least!

---

I would actually say Evan Peters was the only choice they had for Quicksilver. If they recast the AoU guy, his story becomes a lot more personal and Wanda would be way more open and accepting of him. If you give it to another actor, you make the audience distrustful and play the hand of him being controlled by the villain too soon.

It could also just be a meta-joke, it is Marvel after all.

---

I think marvel just straight up said it themselves didn't they?

---

The post-credits scene is setting up Doctor Strange 2 apparently. She is doing the same thing that Doctor Strange was when he astral projected to study while his body slept, and the Doctor Strange leitmotif plays in that scene. Presumably this is where Wanda will be in Doctor Strange 2.

---

Im curious how exactly the plot of DS2 will be set up.
I was thinking the most likely scenario is Wanda will cause whatever is going wrong in that movie through her use of the Darkhold, but I wonder how theyll frame the situation in a way that makes Doctor Strange the main character of the story. I dont think Wanda will be a straight up antagonist.
---

Wanda is probably going to fulfill her destiny somewhere at some point. Just not on this Earth obviously.

---

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ie5hgawBKM

youtube reccs know me too well now

---

TotallyNotMI posted...

Okay I'm trying not to harp on this but given that he's just some random guy named Boehner, how does he have superspeed? Did Agatha give it to him?

Funny that nobody wants to talk about this, as it is the most confusing part of the series. HOW did he get superspeed if he's just a regular joe?

Paratroopa1 posted...

I feel like I'm more attached to Wanda by the end of all this too. The fact that we got a deep dive into her character as a miniseries, rather than a movie, really allowed them to slow down and take their time and really let us soak in a single character. Now I'm like, super excited to see her again, with all of the background of WandaVision behind her.

Absolutely. I was so psyched for her costume reveal, and this is a character I have never loved in the past. MCU version is just well developed and I'm glad they took the time to give her so much depth. Can't wait to see her again, was already excited as fuck for Multiverse of Madness, now even more so.

I still think Agatha will turn out to be a good guy at some point

Also in the very end credit scene Wanda seems to hear her kids, that gave me the impression maybe Mephisto has them. But maybe I'm simply too obsessed with the idea of Mephisto showing up. I mean he's gotta right

---

lmao literally two mirror matches

---

don't know how to talk about how I feel about wandavision

overall 10/10 everything was incredible

also evan peters fake out was 0/10 garbage decision in every way

---

CassandraCain posted...

Funny that nobody wants to talk about this, as it is the most confusing part of the series. HOW did he get superspeed if he's just a regular joe?

the artifact on his neck clearly possesses him and gives him some kind of super speed. It's not too farfetched. Just like how hexes cancel magic, why not have one give super speed

---

Johnbobb posted...

also evan peters fake out was 0/10 garbage decision in every way

I've filed it down into "not everything can be wish fulfilment i'm with it".

Also technically Wanda has magic and could literally make anything that existed here exist again.

---

XIII_rocks posted...

Good show, Olsen was fantastic the whole way through especially in the final episode.

I was waiting for that one big cameo that Bettany teased. Oh well.

He was his own cameo.

---

TotallyNotMI posted...

Tobey and Andrew Garfield are both cast in the next Spider-Man movie. If they end up as new characters that are mostly irrelevant are we saying that also is acceptable and not a bad decision?

I'd have to see the film before I can form that opinion.

---

One thing I will say, I hope that any perceived negativity or "backlash" from people being disappointed does not prevent Marvel from branching off and continuing to do things in different genres and trying new things.

---

Wandavision was a huge success.

This isn't deterring them from doing anything.

---

red13n posted...

Wandavision was a huge success.

This isn't deterring them from doing anything.

I hope so.

---

I am pretty optimistic in general that, while there will always be some standard superhero cliches (some of the parts of this last episode were a little too standard Marvel-superhero crash-bang-boom stuff), I think that everyone working on MCU stuff knows that they have plenty of room to tell the stories they want to tell, and I think especially now that we're in phase four, they're going to be looking for new and exciting things to do instead of telling the same stories over again. And I think they know that audiences will want to watch no matter what. I think WandaVision has proven that the MCU brand is bulletproof as long as the stories are well crafted. Yes, you can tell a story about Wanda Maximoff and Vision in a sitcom world and people will like it.

Blue-G posted...

Is AoS considered cannon?

No

---

Paratroopa1 posted...

I am pretty optimistic in general that, while there will always be some standard superhero cliches (some of the parts of this last episode were a little too standard Marvel-superhero crash-bang-boom stuff), I think that everyone working on MCU stuff knows that they have plenty of room to tell the stories they want to tell, and I think especially now that we're in phase four, they're going to be looking for new and exciting things to do instead of telling the same stories over again. And I think they know that audiences will want to watch no matter what. I think WandaVision has proven that the MCU brand is bulletproof as long as the stories are well crafted. Yes, you can tell a story about Wanda Maximoff and Vision in a sitcom world and people will like it.

I can't help but agree with pretty much everything you have post in these topics.

---

IfGodCouldDie posted...

I hope so.

The Disney+ servers literally could not handle the load for the last 3 episodes.

They made so much money.

---

red13n posted...

The Disney+ servers literally could not handle the load for the last 3 episodes.

They made so much money.

I mean, just because a lot of people watched them doesn't mean there isn't going to be a vocal minority that causes them to hesitate, but I do agree with Para that it does seem like the MCU is bulletproof and I haven't been disappointed by an MCU entry yet so I don't really have any reason to be concerned that a worst case scenario is going to happen.

---

I don't think there's been that much of a real "backlash" of the show, there's disappointment and annoyance over fietro but I don't think that's overtaken the rest of the show / finale.

There's resignations that WandaVision wasn't some masterpiece series or anything and it had its flaws, but it told a great story for the duo with a very well-received villain so I don't think Disney is sweating any bullets

---

So yeah. I mentioned earlier about really liking the trio of Monica, Darcy, and Woo. When they were just piecing things together, it was really good, they were working within the confines of what they knew and their personalities were driving what they did. But as things moved on, they really had no place in the story, they were just characters that kept appearing just because they are in the show, not because they had anything material to do in the plot or any sort of emotional or character relevance. Very disappointing. Monica in particular was honestly pretty bad.

Pietro was awesome. People complaining about him are being really lame. It's okay if he's not a multiverse Pietro - its just a really fun cameo that really did add to the show. It's too bad he was used just as badly in the last episode as all the other side characters.

Hayward was pretty bad before but he got unbelievably bad. He's literally just there to be bad military man. He just... shoots at kids. Just cause. Darcy crashing into him and saying "have fun in prison!" was pretty cringe. The show is just flat up denying stakes for anybody at that point. Wanda has done monstrous things to this town, and while Hayward is definitely going overboard, and the Monica/Darcy/Woo trio are on the right not to not jump to immediately condemning and trying to kill her.. automatically assuming she's good and that Hayward is unquestionably wrong to the point that he'll be arrested just doesn't make sense in any context of the series

Loved Vision's logic circle with himself. Paul Bettany really has been phenomonal.

Like everyone has been saying, Elizabeth Olsen is spectacular too. Though not all her scenes are good, thanks to poor writing. Like taking Agatha to her past started off good but suddenly devolved into.... nothing. I feel like that's how a lot of what Agatha was doing ended up as.

I liked a lot of Wanda's finale stuff, and the final scenes with her family were just sooo good. But then it's astounding how it constantly reverts to such bad writing with the SWORD and results stuff. Wanda doesn't do anything to make amends with the town people after she has been doing something TRULY awful and villainous to them. That "they'll never know what you gave up for them" "it won't change what they think of me" bit is way too self indulgent - as if they aren't 100% justified to think she's a monster??

I see people saying this was holding Wanda accountable but I think it's the complete opposite. I got the feeling Wanda was seeing this is a "I can't control their fear, only my own" situation again which it 100% is not

Honestly the more I think about how unresolved Wanda's villainous actions are here the more annoyed I am with the terrible Hayward and Monica plotlines. None of that part of the story was earend at all.. Honestly Wanda mind trapping Agatha doesn't even feel good - it's like Wanda really is the monster that's okay with doing these things to people.

Man how can this have had such high highs but be so bad on so many of these other things. I really enjoyed this series and it has so many good things. If it hadn't phoned in these other elements this would be a genuine masterpiece.

---

CoolCly posted...

I see people saying this was holding Wanda accountable but I think it's the complete opposite. I got the feeling Wanda was seeing this is a "I can't control their fear, only my own" situation again which it 100% is not

Honestly the more I think about how unresolved Wanda's villainous actions are here the more annoyed I am with the terrible Hayward and Monica plotlines. None of that part of the story was earend at all.. Honestly Wanda mind trapping Agatha doesn't even feel good - it's like Wanda really is the monster that's okay with doing these things to people.

I honestly think this is leading us to seeing Wanda in a more antagonistic role in the future. She has proven time and time again that her mental state currently isn't suited for this level of power. I'm hoping this continues to build up and we eventually get a House of M like event. In fact based on that after credit scene I have a feeling some demon (probably Mephisto) is going to use her kids as leverage in Dr. Strange 2

---

CoolCly posted...

It's okay if he's not a multiverse Pietro - its just a really fun cameo that really did add to the show.

i don't think it counts as a cameo, given that he plays a huge role in the latter half of the show.

Wanda has done monstrous things to this town, and while Hayward is definitely going overboard, and the Monica/Darcy/Woo trio are on the right not to not jump to immediately condemning and trying to kill her.. automatically assuming she's good and that Hayward is unquestionably wrong to the point that he'll be arrested just doesn't make sense in any context of the series

monica thinks wanda's good because she has some kind of "connection" with wanda after exiting the hex for the first time but it's never explained how that works exactly. i thought it got pretty annoying how monica was like "I FEEL WANDA'S PAIN I KNOW SHE'S GOOD" all the time. just a stupid plot device that only exists because the writers were too lazy to come up with something better.

jimmy and darcy only side with monica because monica = good guy and hayward = over the top EVIL MCBAD MILITARY GUY, even though hayward actually raises some valid points if you think about it logically.

the SWORD stuff sucked tbqh. it started out bad and it got worse as the series went on.

Wanda doesn't do anything to make amends with the town people after she has been doing something TRULY awful and villainous to them. That "they'll never know what you gave up for them" "it won't change what they think of me" bit is way too self indulgent - as if they aren't 100% justified to think she's a monster??

yeah, the dottie scene was REALLY dark jesus christ. the fact that at the end, monica was basically like "YOU'RE STILL GREAT WANDA YOU'VE SACRIFICED SO MUCH" was dumb as hell. again, monica is WAY too in love with wanda.

---

I mean given the Previously clip specifically focused on Wanda going "MAYBE I'M ACTUALLY THE VILLAIN" I'm guessing it's a future plot point how morally ambiguous she wound up being

---

Yeah I don't think Wanda is a good guy here and it's fine for the show to leave something grey for once. Though Monica being her constant cheerleader for no logical reason just to keep the audience on her side was annoying, especially that 'they'll never know what you sacrificed for them' line. Like come on, she tortured thousands of people within their own minds for weeks (and intentionally did it again with one person at the end) then just peaced out when it was done.

I think the way I view this will depend on where they take Wanda from here, if they pretend she's a pure hero that sucks but honestly I think they set up way too much of her darker side to go back from that just now.

---

andylt posted...

Yeah I don't think Wanda is a good guy here and it's fine for the show to leave something grey for once. Though Monica being her constant cheerleader for no logical reason just to keep the audience on her side was annoying, especially that 'they'll never know what you sacrificed for them' line. Like come on, she tortured thousands of people within their own minds for weeks (and intentionally did it again with one person at the end) then just peaced out when it was done.

I think the way I view this will depend on where they take Wanda from here, if they pretend she's a pure hero that sucks but honestly I think they set up way too much of her darker side to go back from that just now.

It's not like she was doing it maliciously and she had no idea how much she was actually hurting them, once she realized how much she was actually fucking these people up she let them go. She knew it wasn't fair to take the lives from these people just so she could have Vision and the boys.

Also Agatha wasn't trapped in the same kind of mental prison all of them were initially. She trapped her mind behind the fake persona she chose for herself.

---

Theres something really bothering me about White Vision. WHY was his programming to destroy The Vision? Why wasnt he programmed to kill Wanda? Hayward believed from the very beginning that Wanda was the key to everything, and taking her out would end the Hex. He even tried to take her out already with the drone. So why is he targeting Hex Vision now, especially since Hayward knows that Vision is just a projection of Wandas mind? It seems like really lazy writing to have an excuse for a Vision vs Vision fight.

---

I think what gets me the most is that Wanda wasn't really the protagonist for half the show, then suddenly she was. But that goes hand in hand with MCU-ing the finale, so I guess the problem is that they're afraid to break the mold too much.


---

HanOfTheNekos posted...

I think what gets me the most is that Wanda wasn't really the protagonist for half the show, then suddenly she was. But that goes hand in hand with MCU-ing the finale, so I guess the problem is that they're afraid to break the mold too much.

Do you mean that she wasnt the hero? Because she was certainly the protagonist, from minute one.

---

Having trouble finding the right words, but protagonist is closer I feel.

First three episodes were, sure, centered around her, but they were mostly framing devices for the show. Then the middle arc hit - at that point, it was really set as a mystery with Wanda is the primary driver of it. So at that point, she'd be as much the protagonist as group of young adults being killed off in a horror film.

Because the audience perspective is not aligned with Wanda's, Monica sort of takes the mantle in ep 4 when we actually start exploring the real plot.


---

CassandraCain posted...

Also in the very end credit scene Wanda seems to hear her kids, that gave me the impression maybe Mephisto has them. But maybe I'm simply too obsessed with the idea of Mephisto showing up. I mean he's gotta right

---

redrocket posted...

Theres something really bothering me about White Vision. WHY was his programming to destroy The Vision? Why wasnt he programmed to kill Wanda? Hayward believed from the very beginning that Wanda was the key to everything, and taking her out would end the Hex. He even tried to take her out already with the drone. So why is he targeting Hex Vision now, especially since Hayward knows that Vision is just a projection of Wandas mind? It seems like really lazy writing to have an excuse for a Vision vs Vision fight.

He also said he was there to deal with Wanda when he was fighting her if I recall. I think Vision was his top priority programming wise, but ideally he was to eliminate Vision and Wanda and be a super weapon

swordz9 posted...

He also said he was there to deal with Wanda when he was fighting her if I recall. I think Vision was his top priority programming wise, but ideally he was to eliminate Vision and Wanda and be a super weapon

Yeah that. Remember Hayward was saying he'd just say that the White Vision was the one Wanda brought back because there would only be one Vision left. Of course he was also apparently too stupid to realize that Hex Vision literally couldn't exist outside of the Hex despite witnessing this himself, but what do you expect from the guy who launches a missile from a 1980s drone at Wanda as if that'll accomplish anything.
---

Great show, loved the ending. Can't wait to see what happens next with Dr. Strange for Wanda, and also hyped for Falcon and Winter Soldier.

Based on most of the responses in these topics over the course of this series, I seem to be the only guy left who actually wants and enjoys to see MCU stuff in an MCU show set in the MCU. Give me all the MCU.

---

Im all for MCU anything since DC has left me utterly hopeless :(

swordz9 posted...

Im all for MCU anything since DC has left me utterly hopeless :(

I picked the wrong comic brand to go all-in on. Now I get to watch Leto's Joker laugh at me knowing that there are so many good and better stories to tell, meanwhile all the Marvel readers get all their wishes.


---

davidponte posted...

I picked the wrong comic brand to go all-in on. Now I get to watch Leto's Joker laugh at me knowing that there are so many good and better stories to tell,

D A M A G E D

---

davidponte posted...

Great show, loved the ending. Can't wait to see what happens next with Dr. Strange for Wanda, and also hyped for Falcon and Winter Soldier.

Based on most of the responses in these topics over the course of this series, I seem to be the only guy left who actually wants and enjoys to see MCU stuff in an MCU show set in the MCU. Give me all the MCU.

I'm right there with ya

---

I thoroughly enjoyed this series. I had no idea what to expect but I thought the performances were awesome and the story completely hooked me in.

My only gripes with the finale was the lack of payoff with Evan Peters and the fact that the more minor characters felt a bit rushed and crammed into the episode. But for the most part, I enjoyed it. Wondering how Falcon and the Winter Soldier is gonna play out.

---

IfGodCouldDie posted...

It's not like she was doing it maliciously and she had no idea how much she was actually hurting them, once she realized how much she was actually fucking these people up she let them go. She knew it wasn't fair to take the lives from these people just so she could have Vision and the boys.

Also Agatha wasn't trapped in the same kind of mental prison all of them were initially. She trapped her mind behind the fake persona she chose for herself.

I think they fudged this a bit, it's not clear exactly how much she knew or when. She was definitely aware of what she was doing though, with rewriting scripts that didn't work and shutting up Vision whenever he questioned what was going on, and telling SWORD to leave her be. I mean he straight up confronts her and tells her she's wrong and she keeps going for a while after that, and she knew these were real people in a real town. She might not have been aware of the torture she was putting them through (pre-Vision telling her in ep 5), but she knew she was holding thousands of people hostage for her own benefit. And she'd still be carrying on with it if Agatha hadn't stepped things up.

I'm not calling her a villain, the show was written well to make you have sympathy for her (except Monica/Darcy/Jimmy just being on her side for no reason), but she really wasn't held accountable for anything she did, and got to fly away with a thumbs up from Monica just because she let everyone go in the end. She should at least pay for the years of therapy they will all need >_>

---

andylt posted...

And she'd still be carrying on with it if Agatha hadn't stepped things up.

Agatha was constantly throwing fuel to the fire and thus delaying any potential earlier resolution Vision or Monica could have reached with Wanda to end the situation, most especially by throwing fake Pietro into the mix right when she did.

---

Sorry guys, but you really can't say "I think they'll portray her more as a villain later."

This is the show. This doesn't seem to be a typical TV show that will have regular seasons. There might be a follow up, but this is essentially a one shot miniseries. You can't just leave such critical pieces of the show *completly* unresolved. The only thing they did to address this was when everyone surrounded Wanda and she had to somewhat realize the horrible things she did. That wasn't nearly enough resolve this in series in a satisfying way, when they've really been pushing her as the hero who should succeed and all of these cheerleaders in series acting like she really is the good guy.

It's the case with both the repercussions of what she did here, and with how useless Monica/Jimmy/Darcy were in the later half of the show. If they don't find proper ways to use and address these aspects within the show, then they were poorly done and detrimental, and revisiting it later isn't good enough.

I think if they portray her as villainous later on, it will actually make this worse. It makes his default framing of her as a hero make even less sense.

Also - I have no problems with MCU elements being in this show. I think Monica, Jimmy, Darcy, and Hayward are all perfectly fine elements that *can* fit into this show - they just gave up at some point on giving them good, consistent writing and relevant things to do that fit into the narrative seamlessly.

---

CoolCly posted...

This is the show. This doesn't seem to be a typical TV show that will have regular seasons. There might be a follow up, but this is essentially a one shot miniseries. You can't just leave such critical pieces of the show *completly* unresolved. The only thing they did to address this was when everyone surrounded Wanda and she had to somewhat realize the horrible things she did. That wasn't nearly enough resolve this in series in a satisfying way, when they've really been pushing her as the hero who should succeed and all of these cheerleaders in series acting like she really is the good guy.

Just curious, but what would you want them to do?

---

I don't think anyone in the show really thought Wanda was "the good guy" in this scenario, they all knew this was messed up and had to stop. They just didn't think she deserved to be blown up.

---

mnkboy907 posted...

I don't think anyone in the show really thought Wanda was "the good guy" in this scenario,

monica certainly seemed to think so.

---