Poll of the Day > Watching F.r.i.e.n.d.s. laugh at sexual assault...

(+) Yeah! (+)

Phoebe bit her clients butt without permission while he was getting a massage.

TV is so much better these days.

I also cant believe the mens clothing, it fits so poorly.

I dont think anyone said that sexual assault cant be funny

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blu posted...

TV is so much better these days.

It comes and goes. For instance, Matt LeBlanc went from FRIENDS to doing Episodes... and then to Man with a Plan.


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They also had the show laugh at Joey about to jump off the top of an apartment complex because Rachel was going to France in the series finale.
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Eh most men dont care about being sexually harrassed. There is a woman at my job who is bad about it. She stops if its clearly it upsets you but I think ive seen all of one guy do that. Most just laugh about it cause she does have a tendency of being funny about it.

Shes fairly decent at finding the line not to cross with each individual guy.

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mooreandrew58 posted...

Eh most men dont care about being sexually harrassed. There is a woman at my job who is bad about it. She stops if its clearly it upsets you but I think ive seen all of one guy do that. Most just laugh about it cause she does have a tendency of being funny about it.

Shes fairly decent at finding the line not to cross with each individual guy.

I've had a woman jump up on me and shove their tongue down my throat. I told her to fuck off.

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they were on a break, ross didn't cheat.

are you watching the cut version? it's crap
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https://youtu.be/LLWlBgj0uOc

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mooreandrew58 posted...

Eh most men dont care about being sexually harrassed.

Im not sure Id go that far. Even as a guy having someone who you are not attracted to keep flirting even after youve made it clear you are not into them can be really uncomfortable and even humiliating.

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Not that I "watch tv these days" but trying to expect morality to be tied to the real world seems like a unnecessary restraint to have for making a fictional television show or motion picture, I mean we already have murder occurring in almost every action movie/show ever, its not like it exists to teach us how to act in reality.

"What is a simple bite on the butt amongst friends?"
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/c926dedc-1c40-4fa3-b923-0321de6b8f47

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https://youtu.be/N7dtDOhaMI0?t=147

deoxxys posted...

Not that I "watch tv these days" but trying to expect morality to be tied to the real world seems like a unnecessary restraint to have for making a fictional television show or motion picture, I mean we already have murder occurring in almost every action movie/show ever, its not like it exists to teach us how to act in reality.

And not for nothing, but the fact these things exist occasionally provokes discussion and challenges societal norms.

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ReturnOfFa posted...

I've had a woman jump up on me and shove their tongue down my throat. I told her to fuck off.

Thats sexual assault. Kinda different since its physical contact

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Mead posted...

Im not sure Id go that far. Even as a guy having someone who you are not attracted to keep flirting even after youve made it clear you are not into them can be really uncomfortable and even humiliating.

Let me reiterate then. Men typically dont complain about it. Unless maybe its someone repulsuve.

Most men ive been around it just seems to stroke their ego so they dont mind it. Of course not everyone is going to be the same though

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mooreandrew58 posted...

Let me reiterate then. Men typically dont complain about it. Unless maybe its someone repulsuve.

Again, party animal's Chapelle set kinda sums it up. As uncomfortable as it is for women to report these things, men find it even more uncomfortable. The under-reporting is generally going to be far, far worse among men, particularly when the offender is a woman: (largely because society as a whole -- including women -- laugh shit like that off as a joke, which is why the "toxic masculinity" excuse is bullshit)

party_animal07 posted...

https://youtu.be/LLWlBgj0uOc

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Zeus posted...

Again, party animal's Chapelle set kinda sums it up. As uncomfortable as it is for women to report these things, men find it even more uncomfortable. The under-reporting is generally going to be far, far worse among men, particularly when the offender is a woman: (largely because society as a whole -- including women -- laugh shit like that off as a joke, which is why the "toxic masculinity" excuse is bullshit)

Eh well perhaps im the odd one. No one at work complains about this woman though and often laugh about it later.

She has the perfect job for it too. She does the pat downs of the officers entering the facility to make sure no one is smuggling shit in. He pat down is like a brief massage actually feels good lol. I guess she knowa how to pick em cause come to think of it she doesnt do it to everyone. Like the overly serious ones she leaves alone.

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I would preemptively report her to HR because your company might wind up with a serious lawsuit if she's doing that.

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Zeus posted...

I would preemptively report her to HR because your company might wind up with a serious lawsuit if she's doing that.

Its her actually doing her job on the pat down part. Most people barely touch you and they wonder why drugs keep getting in. She just makes remarks when you first walk in "like hey sexy" ive seen one person get mad at her over it and she leaves them alone now.

I feel flirting is fine if you stop if they make it obvious they dont appreciate it. Doesnt have to be words you can send the message through body language.

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blu posted...

I also cant believe the mens clothing, it fits so poorly.

I didn't really watch Friends when it was out - but I remember the time period. I think men dress much worse today. Skinny Jeans = awful.

There was also that time joey revealed he gets molested when getting fitted for a suit

Also when chandler accidentally walked in on rachel naked so rachel purposely tries to see him naked

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Zeus posted...

The under-reporting is generally going to be far, far worse among men, particularly when the offender is a woman: (largely because society as a whole -- including women -- laugh s*** like that off as a joke, which is why the "toxic masculinity" excuse is bulls***)

That does nothing to debunk the toxic masculinity explanation. The problem is that there's an ideal for masculinity that includes expecting men to A) Always want sex and B) Always be capable of physically overpowering those weak women-folk. The former means men are considered less manly for not wanting the sexual attention, the latter that they're considered less manly for not being able to stop a woman from raping them. In both cases, that's an unhealthy (for which a common synonym is - you guessed it - "toxic") view of masculinity.

You seem to think that "toxic masculinity" refers only to stuff men do. It doesn't. Masculinity is an idea, which everyone in society takes into account to form their expectations and guide their actions. "Toxic masculinity" refers to any instance where men are subject to unhealthy expectations. Sometimes, that means accepting or encouraging unhealthy behaviours from those men (such as a propensity for violence or sexual aggression). Other times, it means expecting them to meet unhealthy ideals (such as being the breadwinner of the family or keeping emotions bottled up), often belittling them for failing to meet those expectations.

Very simply, the concept of toxic masculinity describes any time that an unhealthy behaviour or expectation is touted as being "manly." That's it. It's not "men are toxic," it's not "masculinity is toxic," it's not "men are ruining the world," it's a matter of saying "stop excusing or promoting unhealthy behaviour by calling it manly."

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adjl posted...

That does nothing to debunk the toxic masculinity explanation. The problem is that there's an ideal for masculinity that includes expecting men to A) Always want sex and B) Always be capable of physically overpowering those weak women-folk. The former means men are considered less manly for not wanting the sexual attention, the latter that they're considered less manly for not being able to stop a woman from raping them. In both cases, that's an unhealthy (for which a common synonym is - you guessed it - "toxic") view of masculinity.

You seem to think that "toxic masculinity" refers only to stuff men do. It doesn't. Masculinity is an idea, which everyone in society takes into account to form their expectations and guide their actions. "Toxic masculinity" refers to any instance where men are subject to unhealthy expectations. Sometimes, that means accepting or encouraging unhealthy behaviours from those men (such as a propensity for violence or sexual aggression). Other times, it means expecting them to meet unhealthy ideals (such as being the breadwinner of the family or keeping emotions bottled up), often belittling them for failing to meet those expectations.

Very simply, the concept of toxic masculinity describes any time that an unhealthy behaviour or expectation is touted as being "manly." That's it. It's not "men are toxic," it's not "masculinity is toxic," it's not "men are ruining the world," it's a matter of saying "stop excusing or promoting unhealthy behaviour by calling it manly."

If even half of your claims bear any resemblance to the actual ideology, then it's perhaps the worst-named ideology ever since it has nothing to do with masculinity itself.

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If anyone wants to know why men dont report sexual groping or harassment as much as women do, it again is tied into the Men&Womens Sexual Law of Supply and Demand.

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Zeus posted...

If even half of your claims bear any resemblance to the actual ideology, then it's perhaps the worst-named ideology ever since it has nothing to do with masculinity itself.

Masculinity: The suite of traits and behaviours that are considered manly.
Toxic masculinity: A subset of the traits and behaviours that are considered manly that are also toxic/unhealthy.

That's exactly how adjectives work. Where are you finding a problem here?

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joey doesn't share food

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adjl posted...

Masculinity: The suite of traits and behaviours that are considered manly.
Toxic masculinity: A subset of the traits and behaviours that are considered manly that are also toxic/unhealthy.

That's exactly how adjectives work. Where are you finding a problem here?

Perhaps it's the fact that the definitions you just chose to use have precisely dickall to do with your own explanation just a few posts before, which is on top of your claims being wildly different from what feminists and SJWs regurgitated when explaining the concept.

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Zeus posted...

Perhaps it's the fact that the definitions you just chose to use have precisely dickall to do with your own explanation just a few posts before

Did you actually read that post? Because it consisted entirely of providing examples of traits and behaviours that are considered to be manly that are also toxic, in an effort to discuss the harm caused by promoting them as being manly (namely, mocking, harassing, or otherwise making men feel bad for failing to live up to them). That's like the opposite of dickall. That's dicknone.

I really don't understand what you're not getting here. It's not a hard concept, and you seem to agree with the people that use it, you're just hell-bent on not accepting that name for reasons I can't fathom.

Zeus posted...

which is on top of your claims being wildly different from what feminists and SJWs regurgitated when explaining the concept.

What explanations are you thinking of? Because the definition I gave is pretty much exactly what everyone I've ever seen talking about it uses (at least, the ones that aren't objecting to the term because "masculinity isn't toxic!" and they apparently don't understand adjectives), though perhaps phrased more succinctly and comprehensively because I'm generally a better writer than the vast majority of people out there.

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adjl posted...

Did you actually read that post? Because it consisted entirely of providing examples of traits and behaviours that are considered to be manly that are also toxic, in an effort to discuss the harm caused by promoting them as being manly (namely, mocking, harassing, or otherwise making men feel bad for failing to live up to them). That's like the opposite of dickall. That's dicknone.

I really don't understand what you're not getting here. It's not a hard concept, and you seem to agree with the people that use it, you're just hell-bent on not accepting that name for reasons I can't fathom.

What explanations are you thinking of? Because the definition I gave is pretty much exactly what everyone I've ever seen talking about it uses (at least, the ones that aren't objecting to the term because "masculinity isn't toxic!" and they apparently don't understand adjectives), though perhaps phrased more succinctly and comprehensively because I'm generally a better writer than the vast majority of people out there.

I really don't understand how you're trying to describe the phenomenon that you explained -- which again seems to vary wildly from what was explained by others, most of whom are anti-masculinity advocates whereas, to the best of my knowledge, you aren't a member of the movement -- and equating it to the definitions given. Either the movement is the worst-labeled thing ever (even more so than "Defund the Police," something that even BLM allies like Obama criticize as hurting the cause) or there's no real connection between those things. And the discrepancy between what you described and defined is so far apart that I'm not even sure where to begin questioning that vast gulf. Doubly so when you consider that the primary advocates against masculinity are feminists yet the systems that discriminate and disenfranchises men are largely the work of feminists (including branding men less capable of being single-parents and pushing to award custody of children to women in nearly every case; as well as generally opposing men's rights groups who seek to undo many of the things you complained about in your discussion of the phenomena).

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helIy posted...

joey doesn't share food

but he let chandler have a bite of his meatball sub
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JOExHIGASHI posted...

There was also that time joey revealed he gets molested when getting fitted for a suit

Also when chandler accidentally walked in on rachel naked so rachel purposely tries to see him naked

his dad went to the same tailor too, and joey had to tell him what the tailor had been doing.

and then joey tries to get her back and sees monica, then she tries to get him back and sees joey's dad
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Zeus posted...

I really don't understand how you're trying to describe the phenomenon that you explained -- which again seems to vary wildly from what was explained by others, most of whom are anti-masculinity advocates whereas, to the best of my knowledge, you aren't a member of the movement -- and equating it to the definitions given. Either the movement is the worst-labeled thing ever (even more so than "Defund the Police," something that even BLM allies like Obama criticize as hurting the cause) or there's no real connection between those things. And the discrepancy between what you described and defined is so far apart that I'm not even sure where to begin questioning that vast gulf. Doubly so when you consider that the primary advocates against masculinity are feminists yet the systems that discriminate and disenfranchises men are largely the work of feminists (including branding men less capable of being single-parents and pushing to award custody of children to women in nearly every case; as well as generally opposing men's rights groups who seek to undo many of the things you complained about in your discussion of the phenomena).

Alright. Let's take a different approach, since apparently you're having difficulty focusing on the questions asked:

In three sentences or less, what do you believe "toxic masculinity" means?

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