Current Events > MegaTen/ShinMegamiTensei & Spin-off Games (the topic)

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Persona3MC
03/13/21 9:49:26 PM
#1:


a general thread about MegaTen games for fans ranging anywhere from Digital Devil Story Megami Tensei to fans of Persona discussing any of the following:

1
Your Favorite:

Demon/Persona
Game/Spin Off/ETC
Main Character
Girl
Social Link(persona games only)
Favorite NPCs
Team/Party set up you like to use
Romantic Social Link(persona games only)
Music/Song/Soundtrack
Photos or Fanart
Related YouTube video
Meme
Animation
Series VoiceActor

2
Played/Playing/Want/Cant/Hope:

Games you played, and or own/owned
Games you are currently playing
Games you want to play/buy
Untranslated game you want to play/cant
Game you hope Altus will make

3
Memories, Nostalgia, Personal Experiences:

First SMT/spin off you played, how was it?
Nostalgic memories of playing the series
Personal experiences that standout to you

4
Series Theories and Philosophies:

Potential Theories You Have
Your Philosophical Perspective of a Game

5
Occult Metaphors In-Game:

Interpretations of games occult aspects

6
Series Questions/General discussion:

Series/Game questions youve had
Plot holes you noticed
Characters or plots you relate/related to
Illustrators
Voice Actors
The Musical Score/Soundtracks
Anime Adaptations
Play through times
Your game collection (physical? digital?)
Your merch collection
Personal fan art
What you like about the series
What you dont like about the series
Links to series news and updates
ETC

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Persona3MC
03/13/21 9:49:44 PM
#2:


https://youtu.be/jcYzZjIpSek

Ill start with music from the Velvet Room

and

https://imgur.com/a/hlG2kGr

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Persona3MC
03/13/21 10:45:12 PM
#3:


https://youtu.be/ybaVWcH_zBQ

Persona 4 OST - Heaven

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Solar_Crimson
03/13/21 10:48:38 PM
#4:


Started with Persona 4 (bought on a whim at Gamestop one day), which lead to me getting Nocturne and Strange Journey after beating it. Basically led to me checking out the rest of the series, and make it one of my favorite game series.

Eagerly awaiting SMT5. Still haven't played Persona 5, though.

Also, Lilim is my demon waifu.



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Persona3MC
03/13/21 11:00:53 PM
#5:


^ @Solar_Crimson thats awesome P4 is a great game! Was it around the time it first released on the PS2? Or on the Vita?

Nice! Nocturne is one of my favorites hands down that was the first one I played haha. and Strange Journey is epic too.

Yeah same I cant wait for SMT5 Im stoked! With how awesome Catherine and P5 came out in excited to see how they portray a new SMT console game. Speaking of P5 though you should try it soon lol

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Solar_Crimson
03/13/21 11:17:07 PM
#6:


Persona3MC posted...
Was it around the time it first released on the PS2? Or on the Vita?
It was the PS2 version. This was in 2010, I think. Strange Journey turns out had just come out, and the Gamestop I went to had a copy of it. Actually, I saw both Nocturne and Strange Journey there, but I only had enough money to buy one, so I went with Nocturne. A week later, I got the money needed to get Strange Journey, so I went back and grabbed it as well.

I'm looking forward to the HD remaster of Nocturne, but I'm also aware of some of its problems, mainly the slowdown that the Switch version has that as far as I know hasn't been fixed yet in the Japanese version. But at least a patch allowed for the free-choosing of demon skills during Fusion, so that alone put me back on the bandwagon for the HD version.

Oh, and I guess I could have played Persona 5 already, since I have a PS3, but I called myself waiting to get a PS4 before playing it, but that never happened and now the PS5 is out, and since it's backward-compatible with the PS4 as far as being able to play its games, I see no point in getting a PS4 anymore. That said, even if I do get a PS5, it won't be for a very long time, so I may as well play it on PS3.

As for Lilim, at first I didn't care much for her, but she grew on me during my playthrough of the second Raidou Kuzunoha game, and now I make it my mission to have a superpowered one in every SMT game I play through. I definitely prefer her more modern design, though. But the games tend to flip-flop on which one to use; the Devil Survivor games, for example, use the old, leotard design.

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DespondentDeity
03/13/21 11:24:51 PM
#7:


The Devil Survivor series is my favorite

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Solar_Crimson
03/13/21 11:26:51 PM
#8:


DespondentDeity posted...
The Devil Survivor series is my favorite
We need a Devil Survivor 3.

Hell, we need all the fun SMT spinoffs Atlus used to make. Now, they're up their own ass with modern Persona. I'm glad that we're still getting SMT5, and it's not that I hate Persona, but come on...

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ApherosyLove
03/13/21 11:28:12 PM
#9:


Downloaded P3P off a random recommendation from some friend I barely knew. Probably the best thing I ever bought off PSN.
It's been wild from there. Beat P4G when it came to steam and am working on Persona 5: Royal.

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AlisLandale
03/13/21 11:31:49 PM
#10:


got into the series because the entire GameFAQs website was circlejerking P4G. I didnt even own a vita but its rare that I come across word of mouth that intense, so I picked up a deal on a white vita during that years Black Friday and that was it. >_>

havent really messed around with much of the non-Persona series outside of like, Soul Hackers and SMT4.

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Persona3MC
03/14/21 12:26:38 AM
#11:


Solar_Crimson posted...
It was the PS2 version. This was in 2010, I think. Strange Journey turns out had just come out, and the Gamestop I went to had a copy of it. Actually, I saw both Nocturne and Strange Journey there, but I only had enough money to buy one, so I went with Nocturne. A week later, I got the money needed to get Strange Journey, so I went back and grabbed it as well.

I'm looking forward to the HD remaster of Nocturne, but I'm also aware of some of its problems, mainly the slowdown that the Switch version has that as far as I know hasn't been fixed yet in the Japanese version. But at least a patch allowed for the free-choosing of demon skills during Fusion, so that alone put me back on the bandwagon for the HD version.

Oh, and I guess I could have played Persona 5 already, since I have a PS3, but I called myself waiting to get a PS4 before playing it, but that never happened and now the PS5 is out, and since it's backward-compatible with the PS4 as far as being able to play its games, I see no point in getting a PS4 anymore. That said, even if I do get a PS5, it won't be for a very long time, so I may as well play it on PS3.

As for Lilim, at first I didn't care much for her, but she grew on me during my playthrough of the second Raidou Kuzunoha game, and now I make it my mission to have a superpowered one in every SMT game I play through. I definitely prefer her more modern design, though. But the games tend to flip-flop on which one to use; the Devil Survivor games, for example, use the old, leotard design.

That is epic! Great games to start into the series too.

and heck yeah thats a major plus for the remaster!

lol true that, in that case just wait until you get a PS5 and get P5R+P5S or if youre not gonna get a PS5 for a while get the PS3 version of P5!

Ahh thats pretty cool DS2 was awesome! & true that makes sense

DespondentDeity posted...
The Devil Survivor series is my favorite

its sooo good lol!

Solar_Crimson posted...
We need a Devil Survivor 3.

Hell, we need all the fun SMT spinoffs Atlus used to make. Now, they're up their own ass with modern Persona. I'm glad that we're still getting SMT5, and it's not that I hate Persona, but come on...

gimme Digital Devil Saga 3 or reboot! Thats my fav spin off haha.

ApherosyLove posted...
Downloaded P3P off a random recommendation from some friend I barely knew. Probably the best thing I ever bought off PSN.
It's been wild from there. Beat P4G when it came to steam and am working on Persona 5: Royal.

Nice! P3P is so clean haha and so is P4G.

If they ever make a Persona 2 Eternal Punishment PSP English Port you can download the PSP versions of P1/P2IS/P2EP since youre about to be done with one half of the persona verse plot!

AlisLandale posted...
got into the series because the entire GameFAQs website was circlejerking P4G. I didnt even own a vita but its rare that I come across word of mouth that intense, so I picked up a deal on a white vita during that years Black Friday and that was it. >_>

havent really messed around with much of the non-Persona series outside of like, Soul Hackers and SMT4.

LMAO thats pretty funny. Did you at least enjoy P4G?
and if you gravitate more towards the portable games try Devil Survivor on the 3DS.


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AlisLandale
03/14/21 12:42:11 AM
#12:


I actually fell in love with the game, lol. Went back and played 3, then 5 when it came out. It wasn't a bad purchase tbh, as I also fell in love with Gravity Rush, and there were a few other decent games on the system.

I hear a lot of good things about Devil Survivor. I'll probably check that out one of these days.

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Persona3MC
03/14/21 12:45:12 AM
#13:


@DespondentDeity https://youtu.be/oy-2BmuqkFE


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Persona3MC
03/14/21 12:49:23 AM
#14:


AlisLandale posted...
I actually fell in love with the game, lol. Went back and played 3, then 5 when it came out. It wasn't a bad purchase tbh, as I also fell in love with Gravity Rush, and there were a few other decent games on the system.

I hear a lot of good things about Devil Survivor. I'll probably check that out one of these days.

And thats awesome to hear haha!
Yeah I must admit P4G is quite a cool gem

(my first time hearing about Gravity Rush butvIll have to get that it looks fun tbh)

Nice, yeah Devil Survivor 2 was so good that it even has an animation as well. Pretty fun series if you like the more strategy/tactics rpg games


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Solar_Crimson
03/14/21 12:52:54 AM
#15:


Persona3MC posted...
Devil Survivor 2 was so good that it even has an animation as well.
Actually, I heard that the anime was hot garbage, which is a shame. I did enjoy the game very much (the original and Record Breaker), even if I think that it's a step down from the first game when it comes to the story and themes.

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Persona3MC
03/14/21 12:53:25 AM
#16:


https://youtu.be/Ul0sp782hIQ

for the fans of P4

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DirkDiggles
03/14/21 12:54:31 AM
#17:


1
Your Favorite: Nocturne

Demon/Persona Mara hehehehe
Game/Spin Off/ETC Devil Summoner: Soul Hackers
Main Character Too many to count
Girl(s) Nemissa
Social Link(persona games only) none
Favorite NPCs meh
Villains meh
Music/Song/Soundtrack Persona 5
Photos or Fanart

Played/Playing/Want/Cant/Hope:

Games you played, and or own/owned I own all US PS2, DS, 3DS, PS3, PS4 games
Games you are currently playing P5 Strikers
Games you want to play/buy
Untranslated game you want to play/cant The original Devil Summoner from the Saturn (It was fan translated and I played the PSP version of it but would like an official translation)
Game you hope Altus will make



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Jiek_Fafn
03/14/21 1:02:04 AM
#18:


I've got a weird history with SMT
Started with Revelations: Persona. It was an early PS1 rpg and I hated it. When P2 came out I skipped it because the first one was so bad.

Played Digital Devil Saga around when the 2nd one came out. Absolutely loved them both. The first is my favorite ps2 rpg.

This led me to try Nocturne, which I never finished. Got like a 3rd if the way through and died. Then didn't want to bother giving it another go.

Then I played P3 and P4 which I really enjoyed. Then P5 which I enjoyed less.

I'm all over the place with my opinion on these games

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Persona3MC
03/14/21 1:02:55 AM
#19:


Solar_Crimson posted...
Actually, I heard that the anime was hot garbage, which is a shame. I did enjoy the game very much (the original and Record Breaker), even if I think that it's a step down from the first game when it comes to the story and themes.

It was rushed burn I actually enjoyed it though. But idk lmk if you ever watch it if you think its

But yeah both great games I played the ds & 3ds versions of both. Funny thing is I agree I like the story and themes of the 1st game more though in that case it could be like the story/theme war that the p3vsp4 fans have and while I might just personally favor Devil Survivor 1, Im starting to enjoy the extraterrestrial bible themes of 2 more lately.


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Persona3MC
03/14/21 2:09:00 AM
#20:


@DirkDiggles Nemissa fan thats whats up!

Jiek_Fafn posted...
The first is my favorite ps2 rpg.

#nice

Jiek_Fafn posted...
I've got a weird history with SMT
Started with Revelations: Persona. It was an early PS1 rpg, which I was starved for, and I hated it. When P2 came out I skipped it because the first one was so bad.

Played Digital Devil Saga around when the 2nd one came out. Absolutely loved them both. The first is my favorite ps2 rpg.

This led me to try Nocturne, which I never finished. Got like a 3rd if the way through and died. Then didn't want to bother giving it another go.

Then I played P3 and P4 which I really enjoyed. Then P5 which I enjoyed less.

I'm all over the place with my opinion on these games

Rotfl Revelations Persona is hard to be in love with its easier to play the PSP Remake, but in all honesty the plots/stories to Persona 1,Persona 2 Innocent Sin, and Persona 2 Eternal Punishment are terrific! In my opinion of course.

Also, why did you enjoy P5 less than 3 and 4?

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Persona3MC
03/14/21 2:24:32 AM
#22:


@Jiek_Fafn https://youtu.be/LHJbE_kfybs

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greatmonkeybaby
03/14/21 4:10:23 AM
#23:




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MadDewg
03/14/21 4:17:14 AM
#24:



One of my favorite persona 5 moments. It doesn't take much to put a smile on my face, lol.

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Jiek_Fafn
03/14/21 11:07:21 AM
#25:


Persona3MC posted...
Also, why did you enjoy P5 less than 3 and 4?
I actually really enjoy making OP Persona with inheritance and stuff. P5 had a lot more gate keeping in that regard. I was only able to really get into it near the very end of the game. While there were some quality of life improvements, it came with a lack of freedom.

Also, the repetitive dialog killed a lot of it for me. I understand what they were doing with it, but many games have a feature you purposefully click on to remind you what to do. Id rather have there been a "Talk to Morgana" option instead of getting the annoying texts constantly.

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NeonOctopus
03/14/21 11:09:42 AM
#26:


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ssjevot
03/14/21 11:16:46 AM
#27:


I have a close to complete collection of all Japanese Megaten games. Missing a few Devil Kid games on GBA that are ridiculously expensive. Pretty sure that's it though unless I need to own every release period. Then I am missing some ports here and there.

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Machete
03/14/21 12:33:08 PM
#28:


Strange journey is the only one I've played but I really liked it.
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Solar_Crimson
03/14/21 1:09:22 PM
#29:


Machete posted...
Strange journey is the only one I've played but I really liked it.
I loved Strange Journey, but I passed on the 3DS version simply because it wasn't dubbed. Of all the Shin Megami Tensei games, it's the one game where everyone speaking English made the absolute most sense, so it being left in Japanese just screamed laziness to me.

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greatmonkeybaby
03/14/21 2:17:55 PM
#30:


greatmonkeybaby posted...

Persona 5 Royal initial release date -October 31, 2019
Masks are hottest item due to pandemic - 2020

Metaverse and calling cards confirmed! Lol jk.

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Persona3MC
03/14/21 2:41:44 PM
#31:


MadDewg posted...

One of my favorite persona 5 moments. It doesn't take much to put a smile on my face, lol.

LMAO thats Skull for ya haha!
Tbh theres a lot of funny convos the team has in Mementos.

Jiek_Fafn posted...
I actually really enjoy making OP Persona with inheritance and stuff. P5 had a lot more gate keeping in that regard. I was only able to really get into it near the very end of the game. While there were some quality of life improvements, it came with a lack of freedom.

Also, the repetitive dialog killed a lot of it for me. I understand what they were doing with it, but many games have a feature you purposefully click on to remind you what to do. Id rather have there been a "Talk to Morgana" option instead of getting the annoying texts constantly.

Ahh I see what youre saying, true that.
& thats understandable.

NeonOctopus posted...
Kawakami best Persona 5 girl

Argilla best Digital Devil Saga girl

Why Kawakami?

Heck yeah though! Argilla rocks!

ssjevot posted...
I have a close to complete collection of all Japanese Megaten games. Missing a few Devil Kid games on GBA that are ridiculously expensive. Pretty sure that's it though unless I need to own every release period. Then I am missing some ports here and there.

Thats whats up! Is your native/first language Japanese?
And which game is your favorite out of them all?

Machete posted...
Strange journey is the only one I've played but I really liked it.

Strange Journey is a great game to start out for the series!

Solar_Crimson posted...
I loved Strange Journey, but I passed on the 3DS version simply because it wasn't dubbed. Of all the Shin Megami Tensei games, it's the one game where everyone speaking English made the absolute most sense, so it being left in Japanese just screamed laziness to me.

Redux is cool but yeah thats true they also didnt dub Persona Q2(3DS) either.

greatmonkeybaby posted...
Persona 5 Royal initial release date -October 31, 2019
Masks are hottest item due to pandemic - 2020

Metaverse and calling cards confirmed! Lol jk.

Lol wth. Imagine though haha!


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Persona3MC
03/14/21 3:09:11 PM
#32:


https://youtu.be/qXndqT5pVoI

New Days(P4)

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ssjevot
03/14/21 6:50:39 PM
#33:


Persona3MC posted...
Thats whats up! Is your native/first language Japanese?
And which game is your favorite out of them all?

It's my second language, but I don't play Japanese games in English (or English games in Japanese), it's also much cheaper to buy the Japanese version since I live in Japan and the used game market isn't expensive here like it is on the West.

My favorite is probably Strange Journey, but there are a lot that are neck and neck with it, so it's not an easy call.

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NeonOctopus
03/14/21 8:03:21 PM
#34:


I'm halfway through Megami tensei 2 on my phone emulator for months. I really need to finish it >_> The game is surprisingly good. I like it more than SMT1 imo

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NeonOctopus
03/14/21 8:11:53 PM
#35:


Also, if I could shill a MegaTen youtube channel I like, it's a channel named Marsh. He does reviews of old and kinda obscure SMT games every 1 or 2 months. His commentary is a good mixture of chill and funny imo >_>

https://youtu.be/3JtCsj1jPHk?list=PLwSc4F22t9Os678QxO7ckcYslUsb6obBV

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Persona3MC
03/15/21 4:55:54 AM
#36:


ssjevot posted...
It's my second language, but I don't play Japanese games in English (or English games in Japanese), it's also much cheaper to buy the Japanese version since I live in Japan and the used game market isn't expensive here like it is on the West.

My favorite is probably Strange Journey, but there are a lot that are neck and neck with it, so it's not an easy call.

Thats cool actually!!

And good one!
Heres a song from Strange Journey https://youtu.be/YMfZ0UeoXGU
But yeah true there are a lotta good ones to choose between hah

NeonOctopus posted...
I'm halfway through Megami tensei 2 on my phone emulator for months. I really need to finish it >_> The game is surprisingly good. I like it more than SMT1 imo

Heck yeah finish it!!! Its actually good I like that one too
And why? Do you like the gameplay more or the story?

NeonOctopus posted...
Also, if I could shill a MegaTen youtube channel I like, it's a channel named Marsh. He does reviews of old and kinda obscure SMT games every 1 or 2 months. His commentary is a good mixture of chill and funny imo >_>

https://youtu.be/3JtCsj1jPHk?list=PLwSc4F22t9Os678QxO7ckcYslUsb6obBV

and awesome I subscribed, that video/channel is pretty chill

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Turbam
03/15/21 5:05:30 AM
#37:


P3P was my first.
I adored it, but eventually Tarter sauce became a drag. I still overall liked it, but I've never wanted to replay it.
P4G is probably my favorite, it's the only one that I felt didn't overstay it's welcome.

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The_Creep_2020
03/15/21 5:49:02 AM
#38:


Are there any of these on the Switch?

I think I played one on the PSP but that could have been an SMT game

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teep_
03/15/21 5:52:34 AM
#39:


I played P4G when it released on PC last year and fell in love

I own P5R (but no PS4 yet) and I watched the P3 movies back to back

I also tried SMT 4. It's an excellent game, but probably not for me
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Turbam
03/15/21 8:20:06 AM
#40:


The_Creep_2020 posted...
Are there any of these on the Switch?

I think I played one on the PSP but that could have been an SMT game
SMT 3 is supposed to be coming out soon
SMT 5 will come out eventually

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NeonOctopus
03/15/21 8:25:55 AM
#41:


Half the SMT series you have to emulate though >_> There's fan translations for every major game except Devil Summoner and SMT Nine

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Solar_Crimson
03/15/21 8:28:41 AM
#42:


The_Creep_2020 posted...
Are there any of these on the Switch?

I think I played one on the PSP but that could have been an SMT game
Persona 5 Strikers--but not the original Persona 5 or Royal, despite Strikers being a canon sequel.

Nocturne HD is on the way, as is Shin Megami Tensei V.

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Stagmar
03/15/21 8:39:45 PM
#43:


My first MegaTen was Nocturne. I hated it. Luckily I tried Digital Devil Saga and loved it. Gave Nocturne another try and still hated it. Tried P3 and loved it. Forced myself to play all the way through a path in Nocturne and hated it the whole way. Ive now played almost every MegaTen officially released in English, plus a few fan translations and it turns out I just hate Nocturne.

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Persona3MC
03/16/21 1:19:51 AM
#44:


Turbam posted...
P3P was my first.
I adored it, but eventually Tarter sauce became a drag. I still overall liked it, but I've never wanted to replay it.
P4G is probably my favorite, it's the only one that I felt didn't overstay it's welcome.

Im actually considering replaying Golden again soon lol!

The_Creep_2020 posted...
Are there any of these on the Switch?

I think I played one on the PSP but that could have been an SMT game

Like other users said Persona 5 Strikers is, and soon there will be SMT5 & SMT3HD Remaster.

Theres also a game Atlus developed thats like a Fire Emblem/(S)hin (M)egami (T)ensei thing called (T)okyo (M)irage (S)essions #FE Encore.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Mirage_Sessions_FE

teep_ posted...
I played P4G when it released on PC last year and fell in love

I own P5R (but no PS4 yet) and I watched the P3 movies back to back

I also tried SMT 4. It's an excellent game, but probably not for me

Oh P4G on PC is really good! Nice way to start the series haha.

(The P3 animations are sooo good imo!)

Not for you lol why not?

NeonOctopus posted...
Half the SMT series you have to emulate though >_> There's fan translations for every major game except Devil Summoner and SMT Nine

I actually want Nine in English still tbh.

Stagmar posted...
My first MegaTen was Nocturne. I hated it. Luckily I tried Digital Devil Saga and loved it. Gave Nocturne another try and still hated it. Tried P3 and loved it. Forced myself to play all the way through a path in Nocturne and hated it the whole way. Ive now played almost every MegaTen officially released in English, plus a few fan translations and it turns out I just hate Nocturne.

Thats funny! What do you hate about Nocturne?

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https://youtu.be/pGqE_BNSI0Y ~ Burn My Dread
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teep_
03/16/21 1:46:05 AM
#45:


Persona3MC posted...
Not for you lol why not?

A bit too bleak and grindy
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Stagmar
03/16/21 12:43:15 PM
#46:


Persona3MC posted...
Thats funny! What do you hate about Nocturne?
I hate the reason reps, the story, the skill inheritance (which is fixed in post launch patch for the remake apparently), a lot of the music, so basically everything about it. It doesn't have to make sense, I just loathe it.

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Solar_Crimson
03/16/21 4:12:01 PM
#47:


I was hoping that the Nocturne HD version would at least fix the Reason endings, because all three of them are basically the same and don't even show what the world you created looks like. But it doesn't look like they did.

I guess I'll do True Demon again when I get it.

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NeonOctopus
03/16/21 4:21:30 PM
#48:


Nocturne HD is just Nocturne but with voice acting and the option to choose Dante or Raidou for thr Amala stuff

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Solar_Crimson
03/16/21 4:27:15 PM
#49:


NeonOctopus posted...
Nocturne HD is just Nocturne but with voice acting and the option to choose Dante or Raidou for thr Amala stuff
They also added the ability to choose Fusion skills in a patch, but otherwise... Yeah, it's pretty low-effort on Atlus' part.

Also, Dante is DLC.

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Persona3MC
03/16/21 9:51:06 PM
#50:


teep_ posted...
A bit too bleak and grindy

Oh yeah thats understandable lol

Stagmar posted...
I hate the reason reps, the story, the skill inheritance (which is fixed in post launch patch for the remake apparently), a lot of the music, so basically everything about it. It doesn't have to make sense, I just loathe it.

LMAO well at least you enjoyed P3

Solar_Crimson posted...
I was hoping that the Nocturne HD version would at least fix the Reason endings, because all three of them are basically the same and don't even show what the world you created looks like. But it doesn't look like they did.

I guess I'll do True Demon again when I get it.

Yeah looks like it is True Demon ftw again

NeonOctopus posted...
Nocturne HD is just Nocturne but with voice acting and the option to choose Dante or Raidou for thr Amala stuff



Solar_Crimson posted...
They also added the ability to choose Fusion skills in a patch, but otherwise... Yeah, it's pretty low-effort on Atlus' part.

Also, Dante is DLC.

Definitely getting that DLC.

---
Hi! My name is, Makoto Yuki.
https://youtu.be/pGqE_BNSI0Y ~ Burn My Dread
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Persona3MC
03/17/21 2:50:42 AM
#51:


https://youtu.be/fkweKi2ONDE
Yo(Catherine)

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