Current Events > A third of US covid deaths tied to a lack of insurance

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.citizen.org/news/analysis-how-for-profit-health-care-worsened-the-pandemic/

Excerpt (in italic):

• Before the pandemic, approximately 87 million Americans were uninsured or underinsured. About one-third of COVID-19 deaths and 40% of infections were tied to a lack of insurance;
• About half of Americans receive their health care through their employer. With more than 22 million Americans losing their job during the pandemic, millions have lost their health insurance;
• Racial health disparities, including access to care, have led to disproportionate deaths in communities of color;
• We have the highest rate of unmet need of any comparably wealthy country, with one-third of Americans reporting that they or a family member has avoided going to the doctor when sick or injured in the past year due to cost;
• Americans are significantly more likely to die of chronic respiratory disease, cardiovascular disease, diabetes or cancer than people in comparably wealthy countries with universal health care systems; and
• A lack of essential funding led to insufficient hospital capacity. The U.S. had only around half the hospital beds per capita of peer nations and far fewer than countries like Japan or Germany.

This is what Biden promised "will not change". Talk about Trump's failures re: covid all you want (they're huge, and deserve criticism), but the biggest issue isn't who is the president, it's that the system is designed this way, and people in power want that design to remain in place because they're making money off of it.

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I agree with all the above, except the fact that Trump didn't just stand by and watch the system do its job. He actively exacerbated the problem by having hospitals and states get into bidding wars for medical supplies. I work for a large healthcare corporation thats well connected higher up, so we were able to get all the supplies we needed throughout the entire pandemic from the start. I know many people are smaller hospitals who were struggling majorly. He should be criminally charged for this, tbh, because it likely led to significant deaths. And thats not even the deaths he's responsible for for downplaying the pandemic from the start AND throughout it's peak.

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I make about 100k/yr and even I can't afford to go to the doctor. The insurance offered by my company is atrocious.
The entire medical industry is broken.

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DocDelicious posted...

I make about 100k/yr and even I can't afford to go to the doctor. The insurance offered by my company is atrocious.
The entire medical industry is broken.

but but but innovation
but but but subsidizing research for the rest of the world
but but but government meddling
but but but SOCIALISM

DocDelicious posted...

I make about 100k/yr and even I can't afford to go to the doctor. The insurance offered by my company is atrocious.
The entire medical industry is broken.

Insurance is alot and the system needs to be fixed, but if you make that much, then you you can afford insurance and can afford to go to the doctor. Thats your personal decision how you want to spend your money and you're putting healthcare lower on your priorities.

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MaddenDude-- posted...

Insurance is alot and the system needs to be fixed, but if you make that much, then you you can afford insurance and can afford to go to the doctor. Thats your personal decision how you want to spend your money and you're putting healthcare lower on your priorities.

Going to the doctor is definitely less of a priority than eating, or paying rent/bills, yes. I feel like that should be obvious.

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MaddenDude-- posted...

I agree with all the above, except the fact that Trump didn't just stand by and watch the system do its job.

That is not what I said

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There is nothing that can be done , I hate to make it about race, but there are lot of poor white people who vote for Republicans when they are the people who need the help. However they see that black people might be helped too and they choose death over the idea that a minority might get help.

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Let's just keep blaming Trump and the gop while allowing democrats to completely fucking fail at fixing any of this and not wanting to so we continue to get nowhere as usual like our entire lifetimes!!

fuming posted...

Let's just keep blaming Trump and the gop while allowing democrats to completely fucking fail at fixing any of this and not wanting to so we continue to get nowhere as usual like our entire lifetimes!!

I call out the dems all the time. But this is on the Republicans.

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true, the democrats have now extended insurance to everyone as the president has openly promised they would veto even if it passed

DocDelicious posted...

Going to the doctor is definitely less of a priority than eating, or paying rent/bills, yes. I feel like that should be obvious.

so you are struggling with paying for groceries on $100k/year?
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g980 posted...

so you are struggling with paying for groceries on $100k/year?

no, he said he struggled to afford to go to the doctor. not sure where you got that from.

cjsdowg posted...

I call out the dems all the time. But this is on the Republicans.

The current democratic president ran on the promise to profiteers that things will not change

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Some medical problems will drain every disposable dime you have.

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BeST heaLTH cArE iN THe wORLd

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I dunno if I buy the argument.

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Balrog0 posted...

I dunno if I buy the argument.

Which one?

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I can buy the argument. I work at a pharmacy, so I don't see death, but I do see people having to choose to not pick up medicine every day due to price. Some are more important than others

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You really think the health insurance industry is gonna change when it rakes in billions?

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scar the 1 posted...

Which one?

That universal health care would have done much to mitigate the impact of covid

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g980 posted...

so you are struggling with paying for groceries on $100k/year?

No? Where would you get that idea?
$200 per week on groceries is a bit different than being slapped with a $3k bill just to speak to a doctor.

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Balrog0 posted...

That universal health care would have done much to mitigate the impact of covid

Couple different things then:

• Do you acknowledge that some people who had covid and lived would have died without proper care?
• Do you think universal health care would have had a baseline impact on public health?

This is before going into the whole thing about US capacity (beds/person) is lower than e.g., Germany because healthcare is done for profit and not all patients are profitable

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Yes and maybe. But I don't see how medicare for all addresses the hospital capacity issue. We have more beds per capita than the only country I know of that actually does medicare for all (Canada).

The rest of the arguments are pretty specific ones. E.g., medicare for all would have global budgeting and specific money for public health emergencies. Yeah, some versions of the proposal include those, but the most discussed ones continue the regular fee for service structure at a reduced reimbursement rate. So it's really an argument about one specific part of one specific medicare for all proposal, not just uhc as a rule

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So do you actually disagree with the notion that universal health care would have done much to mitigate the impact of covid, or are you talking about the impact a specific realization of M4A would have had

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I mean the relevant policies they're discussing are more about giving hospitals money than covering people through health insurance. I guess I am getting tripped up because the claim for years on this board had been that m4a saves money

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DocDelicious posted...

Going to the doctor is definitely less of a priority than eating, or paying rent/bills, yes. I feel like that should be obvious.

I'd like to see your budget if you can't afford to see the doctor on $100k/year

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Balrog0 posted...

I mean the relevant policies they're discussing are more about giving hospitals money than covering people through health insurance. I guess I am getting tripped up because the claim for years on this board had been that m4a saves money

I suppose you could make an argument that it saves money, depending on who is supposed to be saving them, but my point ITT is that universal health care saves lives that for profit health care does not save

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scar the 1 posted...

I suppose you could make an argument that it saves money, depending on who is supposed to be saving them, but my point ITT is that universal health care saves lives that for profit health care does not save

I just don't see the argument here that convices me of that with regards to coronavirus

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I literally sent my US friend 20 on Paypal because he was raffling off his guitars on Insta to pay for his medical bills.

pretty sad stuff for the "best country in the world"

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Balrog0 posted...

I just don't see the argument here that convices me of that with regards to coronavirus

What about "more people having access to life-saving care" and "a higher baseline level of public health" doesn't convince you? Covid morbidity is higher among poor people, who generally are in worse health and have less access to healthcare. Universal healthcare addresses that, don't you think?

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scar the 1 posted...

What about "more people having access to life-saving care" and "a higher baseline level of public health" doesn't convince you?

The issue with coronavirus was hospital capacity rather than access to care. I only gave you a maybe on the latter because it really depends on what you mean. Early detection and prevention would help a lot of people stay healthy, but the sort of disparities we see in things like respiratory disease are probably not about health care (more about disparities in housing and neighborhood quality for that one).

scar the 1 posted...

Covid morbidity is higher among poor people, who generally are in worse health and have less access to healthcare. Universal healthcare addresses that, don't you think?

I thought the huge challenge every where was managing capacity, which isn't helped by giving more people access. If I'm wrong about that then let me know. The reason I focused on their argument regarding hospital capacity is because that's where the breakdown is for me.

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MURlCA

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Balrog0 posted...

The issue with coronavirus was hospital capacity rather than access to care. I only gave you a maybe on the latter because it really depends on what you mean. Early detection and prevention would help a lot of people stay healthy, but the sort of disparities we see in things like respiratory disease are probably not about health care (more about disparities in housing and neighborhood quality for that one).

I don't have data for this but it was my understanding that people with little to no insurance are less likely to seek help in time, or to get the care they need. But you're probably more well read on the subject than I am.
However, I would argue that under a system with universal healthcare, it would be much more realizable to actually scale healthcare to the needs of the population. This includes things like more hospital beds, distributed after need rather than after profit, etc. You say you have more beds per capita than Canada, and use it as an argument that m4a doesn't necessarily mean more beds per capita. While I don't think it's straightforward to make such a comparison, or conclude something like that from it, I'll be clear and say I don't think universal healthcare is the entire solution to the problem. But it's a big part of it. You're never going to get private actors to build hospitals if it isn't profitable for them. Remove the profit motive and one prerequisite is checked. Of course it's still possible to underfund healthcare.

Balrog0 posted...

I thought the huge challenge every where was managing capacity, which isn't helped by giving more people access. If I'm wrong about that then let me know. The reason I focused on their argument regarding hospital capacity is because that's where the breakdown is for me.

Another argument that I'm trying to make here is that with universal healthcare, you would have a healthier (and hopefully less poor) population. And since the risk of dying from covid is higher when you have "underlying conditions", that number would go down. It's not just about the available beds right now, it's also about how accessible healthcare was before, so people could actually get treatment for other things which would increase their survival rates vs covid. If that makes sense.

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I remember a streamer talking about getting sick in a tour in outside of America. Went to the doctor and got some medicine and was shocked that he didnt have to spend a fortune.

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DocDelicious posted...

Going to the doctor is definitely less of a priority than eating, or paying rent/bills, yes. I feel like that should be obvious.

This is bad finance, though. You're one accident or serious disease away from wiping a good chunk of your savings. Plus health expenses are tax deductible after a certain amount.

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not sure why covid is mentionned as the priority, a pandemic is a different issue altogether, there were not enough beds in any country really, what we needed is better research on anti virals

over here in Canada free healthcare works great I feel, I dont mind if I pay more taxes to help out poor people for that, I find it annoying though that when you got to the ER there are always so many people in the waiting room that are there with very mild symptoms, feels like they should charge at least a registration fee of 50$ or something, this would get rid of those

ROOTFayth posted...

not sure why covid is mentionned as the priority, a pandemic is a different issue altogether, there were not enough beds in any country really, what we needed is better research on anti virals

over here in Canada free healthcare works great I feel, I dont mind if I pay more taxes to help out poor people for that, I find it annoying though that when you got to the ER there are always so many people in the waiting room that are there with very mild symptoms, feels like they should charge at least a registration fee of 50$ or something, this would get rid of those

And a lot of poor people will die. Because hey either eat for the week or get this lump checked. Oh that lump has been there for years it can stay a little longer.


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DocDelicious posted...

I make about 100k/yr and even I can't afford to go to the doctor. The insurance offered by my company is atrocious.
The entire medical industry is broken.

Don't you just love for profit?

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cjsdowg posted...

And a lot of poor people will die. Because hey either eat for the week or get this lump checked. Oh that lump has been there for years it can stay a little longer.

Well there is no perfect system, maybe check in online and get a text to say that your turn should be between the next 30 and 90 minutes or something, its just a little ridiculous when you have to wait 6-7 hours because someones been constipated for 24 hours or someone else has had a fever and a small cough for also less than 24 hours

JuanCarlos1 posted...

Plus health expenses are tax deductible after a certain amount.

Tbf it's hard to get a deduction for health expenses. You have to have low income and high expenses, and I usually only see it with retired people.

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