Current Events > The idea of bringing in psychologists instead of police to descalate

(+) Yeah! (+)

has always struck me as terribly naive.

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I mean new coke was a thing...

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I agree. Not to mention impractical.

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Tell me why you think it's naive.

*starts billing*

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Compromise. Armed psychologists.

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BloodMoon7 posted...

Compromise. Armed psychologists.

They come packing with DSM launchers. Like potato guns, but less effective.

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I support this. Make psychologists become first responders.

I guess we'll just have the shot up teenagers and people with disabilities, then. because that's the reality we're left with. which is the opposite of naive. you didn't give a better solution, so I suppose there isn't one. just those dead, disfigured bullet riddled children and disabled people in front of and inside their homes. since there isn't a better solution. because we aren't naive, after all.

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ImAMarvel posted...

Not psychologists per se but mental health professionals. But anyway, Denver introduced a program like this and so far, it's been a huge success.

Not sure mental health professionals are trained to deal with violent and dangerous circumstances. In my experience, to the extent to which they do, it's offloaded to lower staff and typically dealt with similarly as police, with physical or chemical restraint.

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ImAMarvel posted...

The fuck

There are tons of mental health professionals who work in mental hospitals and clinics where they deal with patients who have severe issues or trauma. I'd imagine this would be similar.

I don't think you understand the reality of the situations you're talking about.

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Social workers could totally stop armed gunman from robbing your house and murdering your family

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COVxy posted...

Not sure mental health professionals are trained to deal with violent and dangerous circumstances.

This hasn't stopped the police.
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ImAMarvel posted...

There are tons of mental health professionals who work in mental hospitals and clinics where they deal with patients who have severe issues or trauma. I'd imagine this would be similar.

what do you think mental hospitals are like lol

Casual reminder that psychologists and psychiatrists are not the same thing

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ImAMarvel posted...

The fuck

There are tons of mental health professionals who work in mental hospitals and clinics where they deal with patients who have severe issues or trauma. I'd imagine this would be similar.

One is a controlled environment, the other is not.

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Smashingpmkns posted...

This hasn't stopped the police.

Police are trained to deal with violent and dangerous circumstances though.
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They need to clone Denzel Washington, he is The negotiator

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DarkRoast posted...

Casual reminder that psychologists and psychiatrists are not the same thing

Indeed, and psychologists are even less equipped to deal with the situation because they can't just administer a crapton of haldol after physical restraint lol.

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Persona6 posted...

They need to clone Denzel Washington, he is The negotiator

Also the Equalizer

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Duncanwii posted...

Police are trained to deal with violent and dangerous circumstances though.

Stop duncanposting

Well the police are clearly already doing an amazing job, so...

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I feel like ideally a team from various fields would be dispatched. Perhaps one medic, one counselor, and a police officer who says and does nothing until advised by the medic or counselor.

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COVxy posted...

Indeed, and psychologists are even less equipped to deal with the situation because they can't just administer a crapton of haldol after physical restraint lol.

When I was a resident, I had an attending who told me he had a patient who would frequently steal vials of medication sitting out and inject them when he got to the streets. Except this time he stole a vial of rocurionium.

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It would be nice to have police specialized in this kind of thing, though.

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It depends on the situation.

There will always be situations that call for trained, armed professionals.

We need to seriously scale back the number of situations we send those trained professionals to though.

You dont use a hammer to drive in a screw. We need to reevaluate and reform our responses to dangers and disruptions in society.


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Psychologists haven't been able to help me, and I don't even commit crimes. The mental health industry is a joke.

AlisLandale posted...

It depends on the situation.

There will always be situations that call for trained, armed professionals.

We need to seriously scale back the number of situations we send those trained professionals to though.

You dont use a hammer to drive in a screw. We need to reevaluate and reform our responses to dangers and disruptions in society.

I would imagine that the large majority of cases that lead to police violence are ones that were violent from the outset.

That's not to say there aren't cases where the police escalate things in such a terrible and irresponsible way (Philando Castile comes to mind here), but they are relatively rare, and so even evaluating how successful such a system is in reducing them is probably going to be a crapshoot.

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The idea itself is actually sound. The program in Denver shows that it can work when implemented well.

I think the problem is, you have people online giving suggestions on how it should be done and some of it is very unrealistic. Like I've seen people saying that we don't need officers for domestic abuse calls. That's unrealistic.

Dealing with the transient population though? Definitely. There are so many homeless people in LA with mental illnesses that get arrested or put on a 5150 hold, then released without any of their problems actually being solved. A different approach there would definitely help.

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NoxObscuras posted...

Dealing with the transient population though? Definitely. There are so many homeless people in LA with mental illnesses that get arrested or put on a 5150 hold, then released without any of their problems actually being solved. A different approach there would definitely help.

That would require massive funding of mental health institutions (meaning, a re-opening of institutions, which were pretty much all shut down when there was societal outcry about mandated mental health treatment).

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AlisLandale posted...

It depends on the situation.

There will always be situations that call for trained, armed professionals.

We need to seriously scale back the number of situations we send those trained professionals to though.

You dont use a hammer to drive in a screw. We need to reevaluate and reform our responses to dangers and disruptions in society.

You know what? I'm about sick of these arm-chair mechanics constantly bringing up the whole "You don't use a hammer on a screw" bullshit.

Have any of you actually tried it? Maybe, just maybe, get off your high horses and try it. Just once. Then come back and see if you use that stupid ass phrase again.

Completely off-topic but if anyone would be interested in my patent pending screw-hammer, PM for details! I'll throw in a nail-driver for half off!

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MorbidFaithless posted...

I feel like ideally a team from various fields would be dispatched. Perhaps one medic, one counselor, and a police officer who says and does nothing until advised by the medic or counselor.

I like this. Added security in case something goes really south but also the officer is seeing the other aspect of what policing should look like.

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Stay in your lane CovXY.

this isnt your field and youve demonstrated your utter lack of understanding about this field everytime youve opened your mouth about it.

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Zeeak4444 posted...

Stay in your lane CovXY.

this isnt your field and youve demonstrated your utter lack of understanding about this field everytime youve opened your mouth about it.

Lol. I have a bachelors and a masters in psychology. What are your qualifications?

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cuh posted...

Life is suffering. People who think that an ideal world with mental health experts who put everyone back together perfectly are over-inflating our capabilities and forgetting that we are merely mortal animals.

Yeah, I'm tired of patronizing bullshit like "you have issues, seek help".

COVxy posted...

Lol. I have a bachelors and a masters in psychology. What are your qualifications?

and please pray tell, what field of psychology are you in?

For someone with a BA and MA in Psychology its pretty funny you lumped the subject into one big field.

I/O psychology is totally the same as Clinical, which are both the same as forensic, apparently.


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ImAMarvel posted...

And I'm sure you haven't been paying attention to the reality of the success of these programs.

https://denverite.com/2021/02/02/in-the-first-six-months-of-health-care-professionals-replacing-police-officers-no-one-they-encountered-was-arrested/

Why was this post ignored?

ImAMarvel posted...

Not psychologists per se but mental health professionals. But anyway, Denver introduced a program like this and so far, it's been a huge success.

This. Remember, medical personnel (especially in certain fields like emergency room workers) do have to deal with dangerous situations all too frequently. They can't harm the person, so they have to deescalate the situation somehow. And nearly without fail, they'll end up succeeding because they have to. They'll get in trouble if they don't.

And then there's people who work in mental health facilities, who might deal with a genuinely deranged person who skipped their medication, and is having an episode. They could be flinging poop or armed with a makeshift weapon. Wanna guess what the employees have to do? Safely get the person to stop.

Meanwhile cops give a command and a few seconds before they shoot regardless of if the person was complying.

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You don't send mental health crisis teams to everything, you send them to situations where someone is clearly distressed or in some way mentally disordered, but without significant threat of violence.
It's probably only a small percentage of emergency calls that would be appropriate. Maybe 10%?
There are also some specific things like domestic violence where it might be helpful for a crisis team to go, but they shouldn't go alone into that.

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Duncanwii posted...

Police are trained to deal with violent and dangerous circumstances though.

No they fucking arent.
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TheOtherMike posted...

Why was this post ignored?

confirmation bias, perseverance effect, and impression formation.

All joking aside its not far off. People made up their minds it wont work or cant work and theyll hold that belief as long as they can.

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Zeeak4444 posted...

and please pray tell, what field of psychology are you in?

For someone with a BA and MA in Psychology its pretty funny you lumped the subject into one big field.

I/O psychology is totally the same as Clinical, which are both the same as forensic, apparently.

My psych degree was done with honors in a cognitive psychology lab, masters was given for general psych curriculum. My doctorate was in cognitive neuroscience.

Anyway, I'm willing to bet I'm more formally educated in the topic that you just told me to stay out of than you are.

But cool cool cool cool cool. Just come into my topic and condescend.

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Frizzurd posted...

Psychologists haven't been able to help me, and I don't even commit crimes. The mental health industry is a joke.

There's bad ones out there, sure. But the main reason people usually have issues with any of them helping is because the person is unwilling to actually help themselves. That is, you're probably blocking out anything meant to help you.

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There's no one size fits all solution, but it's certainly not a bad thing to have them on payroll. The dumb takes are the people who act like they can easily handle like 90% of situations, and the people who think that police never provide unnecessary escalation to certain situations.

COVxy posted...

My psych degree was done with honors in a cognitive psychology lab, masters was given for general psych curriculum. My doctorate was in cognitive neuroscience.

Anyway, I'm willing to bet I'm more formally educated in the topic that you just told me to stay out of than you are.

But cool cool cool cool cool. Just come into my topic and condescend.

nah, thats what I expected because its what youve said in the past.

now tell me, how informed does that actually make you on the topic at hand? (Hint: not as informed as youre pretending to be).

Sorry I offended you or whatever pearl clutching bullshit youre saying here.

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