Board 8 > Hot take time: What is the worst story you've ever seen in a story-driven game?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Well while I have your attention I thought of another one: Far Cry 3.

The opening of that games story is so good. Then it gets generic and slightly racist. Then it gets all over the place and really racist. Then it has two endings of which one is nonsense and the other is repugnant nonsense.

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Perhaps Asch said it best when he simply said, "Shut up! This isn't about LOGIC!"

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Paratroopa1 posted...

My weird hot take is that I really don't like Meaning of Birth but I think the rest of the soundtrack is pretty good

KamikazePotato posted...

Also real talk, the actual worst reason to avoid Abyss is that the soundtrack is ass. Meaning of Birth is lit and the rest is, well, not

I can't tell which one of you I wanna fight more.

I will say that Meaning of Birth's in game version suffers from the instrumentation and the orchestral version suffers from a slowed down tempo. Thankfully, a very appreciated fan managed to adjust to the best of both worlds.

https://youtu.be/4ko5zZipNGM

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Also my hot Tales music take is that Vesperia is the one with the garbage soundtrack.

I love Ring a Bell as an OP, but it's really telling that when you walk into Dahngrest and that rad town theme starts playing, it suddenly dawns that there has literally been no memorable music in the entire game up until that point.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

I love Ring a Bell as an OP, but it's really telling that when you walk into Dahngrest and that rad town theme starts playing, it suddenly dawns that there has literally been no memorable music in the entire game up until that point.

=(

I love a lot of the early dungeon themes in Vesperia. The first forest one especially, but the ruins after that (where Rita joins iirc), and some others too!

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My answer to the topic is AI: The Somnium Files, I don't think I've ever been more disappointed in a story-driven game

UshiromiyaEva posted...

No matter which side you end up on, it was definitely the Tales game with the most to say and the most risks in its story at the time and for long after. There's no doubt it's a very unique and interesting entry in the franchise, and the most memorable, even if you hate it.

Compared to the coating of Vaseline blandness smeared over the stories of every game in the franchise for a decade+ after...

Yeah, I do think if you're a fan of JRPGs at all, Abyss is a game you should absolutely make a concerted effort to at least take a chance on. It's pretty unique in the genre for the things it does and the amount of thought that's put into all of the worldbuilding, theming, etc.

It may work for you, it may not; it's the most polarizing game of an already-polarizing franchise and even its biggest fans like me will, to a point, respond with "Yeah, I get it" when folks say they didn't care for it. But if it does click, it's an incredibly worthwhile experience.

Anyway, the last thing I'll say as part of the discussion that I didn't really even want to get dragged into in the first place is that I think Jade is taking a little too much fire for the immediate post-Akzeriuth saga. He doesn't abuse Luke or even really try to assign blame at all; he essentially just says that the entire argument is bothering him and removes himself from it entirely, and considering who he is I think the subtext pretty well implies that he knows he's got bigger things to worry about than useless finger-pointing, and he doesn't see the need to explain anything to a bunch of people he's fairly sure at that point he's never going to encounter again. Plus, it's made clear over and over that he does indeed feel considerable guilt for everything that happens due to the things he's created. He's got a lot of sociopathic tendencies, sure, but I would argue that post-Nebilim-Incident Jade is never actively a bad person.

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everyone needs the Tales of Rebirth Peach Pie speech (except it's big spoilers tho)

so good they had to make a peach pie recipe omake for all to enjoy the taste of anti-racism

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NFUN posted...

You consider all possible outcomes when making the decision. It's reasonable to foresee that there are safety regulations at the place you work, so ignorance isn't a crutch. As they say, ignorance of the law is no defense; it is an individual's responsibility to learn about this

Now, if you ask your manager about regulations and he says there are none, blame doesn't rely on you, because you were misled and had no reason to suspect deception. Being lied to by somebody you trust, especially in an unpredictable manner, isn't an outcome you can be expected to account for

Luke's case sounds more like scenario 2 than 1

First of all I can tell you that I sure as hell don't consider all possible outcomes when making a decision and I doubt most people do. People's capacity as rational actors can only go so far! That's part of why I think the focus on intent is largely a distraction.

Second of all, what my manager says about regulations only matters so much as what I am expected to know myself, because like you said, individuals are expected to learn. If I have no reason to distrust my manager but don't fact check the safety regulations using that obligation, am I not responsible? Probably not legally, but morally? I dunno. I just know I've definitely been in situations where I have recognized my manager ignoring safety regulations.

With regard to TotA, putting aside that Luke is being reckless with his anime superpowers he doesn't understand, he actually does have to ignore safety regulations to do what he does! There are three characters involved: Luke, his manager, and Ion (who I guess is CEO and Jesus in this metaphor). The manager has to get Jesus to open a door before he can trick Luke into doing war crimes. He warns them both against doing this but because Luke trusts his manager and sides with him, he ends up opening the door. As KP mentions, Ion readily admits he is complicit in the destruction of Akzeriuth for doing this, which grants weight to Luke also being complicit.

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I'm still laughing at "Mr. Car" by the way

redrocket posted...

To go back to KPs analogy, Brandon Lee was killed on the set of The Crow when he was shot with a gun that was supposed to be loaded with blanks. No criminal charges were ever filed, including against the actor who actually fired the gun. Now, thats not exactly the same thing as saying there was no blame involved (Lees mother did get a settlement from the studio) but it shows that KPs analogy has more real world grounding than some people may admit!

Yeah I'm not specifically interested in criminal blame, though if you're arguing from that perspective it's totally reasonable

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is it a hot take to say the best person in Abyss is Emperor Peony IX

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Also my hot Tales music take is that Vesperia is the one with the garbage soundtrack.

This is also true. Tales is probably the biggest JRPG series that has a lot of not great music. I like half of Berseria's OST a lot, mostly the boss themes and Velvet's Piano Theme (which is extremely good), but some of the songs in it are just embarrassing.

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Peony was good and apparently they agreed because they tried to copy the "prestigious leader of a huge city or region is actually a cool dude who wears sandals" trope in a whole bunch of Tales games after that and none of them were memorable at all.

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Abyss: I mean when I say Jade is a sociopath I mean that literally, not as some kind of value judgment. He admits to not feeling emotions/morality like everyone else. pre-Nebilim he combined it with the stock "uh-oh" media-based sociopath traits but while he mostly channels his effort in positive directions after that incident he's still doesn't experience emotion like others. He's just gained better social awareness and was humbled by the failure with Nebilim.

Also, IIRC, he casually drops some pretty harsh and biting comments at Luke even for a short period after Luke/Tear/Guy rejoin him. I only give him extra heat for it because he's the one person in the party who knows Luke's full situation - and he later admits that he did and that he should have acted accordingly in that sidequest!

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KamikazePotato posted...

This is also true. Tales is probably the biggest JRPG series that has a lot of not great music. I like half of Berseria's OST a lot, mostly the boss themes and Velvet's Piano Theme (which is extremely good), but some of the songs in it are just embarrassing.

For most of these games people remember a handful of super rad tracks and like to associate the whole game with them.

As a Tales stan almost none of the soundtracks are even a majority good, except ironically the biggest piece of shit game in the franchise Zesteria.

Why did Rising Up and Zaveid the Exile have to come from that garbage??

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I think Symphonia probably has the best soundtrack in the series, if only because the instrumentation it uses is more pleasant on the ears. And it's still not a very good OST.

Actually, the Tales game with the highest ratio of good:bad songs is Crestoria, the gacha mobile game, which really should have been a full release considering how good its story is.

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Sakuraba is a pretty good composer but I always got the feeling he hates having to fill out Tales OSTs

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Why did Rising Up and Zaveid the Exile have to come from that garbage??

because they got Go Shiina to do a handful of tracks in Zestiria and they're pretty much all great (Those two, the Element Trial Grounds, and a few others)

Though I don't think Tales has really even gotten close to Symphonia/Abyss/Vesperia since Vesperia. ...like ToS2 might be the next closest lol.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Sakuraba is a pretty good composer but I always got the feeling he hates having to fill out Tales OSTs

I might be misquoting/remembering, but I think he stated as much in an interview. Although it was a more PR-friendly statement, where he said the Tales teams micromanaged his composing a lot.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Sakuraba is a pretty good composer but I always got the feeling he hates having to fill out Tales OSTs

I think he isn't given much freedom either. He has to fill them out and is expected to churn out blech, so that's what he does

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I want to say Disco Elysium for the hot take value, because it did some cool stuff at the beginning and then went to freaking pieces later. The killer is some random dude you don't meet until the very end, whereupon, surprise! Supernatural bugs! Along the way you deal with a ton of pretentious nonsensical garbage about political philosophies and personal worldviews and it basically just throws out everything the game had going for it.

But there are some really bad PS1-era RPGs and a lot of the FF games are downright garbage for story. I'd give it to FF1 if I thought FF1 counted as a story-driven game.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRViSGk02OI

I can't get over this one song. It's dangerously close to sounding like that one basement theme from Resident Evil.

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Legendia has by far the best Tales soundtrack. Real great work there.
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KamikazePotato posted...

I think Symphonia probably has the best soundtrack in the series, if only because the instrumentation it uses is more pleasant on the ears. And it's still not a very good OST.

Actually, the Tales game with the highest ratio of good:bad songs is Crestoria, the gacha mobile game, which really should have been a full release considering how good its story is.

And basically everyone players muted so lol

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Oh, I just noticed, we're 226 posts into this topic, and I don't remember anyone mentioning Fallout 4. That counts as story-driven, right?

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Yeah...Fallout 4 would probably be my answer too.

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Yeah, as far as the main story is concerned I can see Fallout 4. That story falls off a cliff like no other, and it is especially bad since that one had a much bigger focus on the main story than some earlier Fallout games. Some damn good side stories though.

Edit: I refused to finish Fallout 4s main story because I absolutely hated the choice it was giving me for the last part of the game.

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I'm still on page 3 but want to throw out two things:

--I actually almost said Umineko also. There's a lot I don't like about it but ultimately I think it has less to do with story itself and more to do with the style and dialogue, if that makes sense.

--Kamikaze is 100% right about Tales of the Abyss and how it treats Luke regarding Akzeriuth and god was it stupid. I don't really have quite such a huge issue with the game as a whole but this one particular part was really bad and dumb and it doesn't help that it's supposed to be a pivotal character moment and it's constantly referenced later on in the story.

Edit: I should also say about this that I don't care so much how the characters react to Luke because tense emotional situations can obviously lead to people saying dumb things. The issue is that the narrative tries to convince you that the other characters are mostly in the right here and hinges on that
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I liked Fallout 4 a lot.

...For the gameplay.

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I feel like fallout 4s issue was less the story and more the meaninglessness of the choices. It felt like it had no conclusion because they didnt want to spend the money developing separate meaningful faction endings.

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I don't know that Tales of the Abyss necessarily hinges on the other characters being right. Luke needed to change, even if Akzeriuth never happened. It was just the catalyst that made Luke aware he needed to change.

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I came back to this thread to walk into so much contrarianism. 2021 GameFAQs still hates popular games just to look different.

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wow who couldve expected to see hot takes in a thread whose title starts with "Hot take time"?

contrarian losers

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Wait, hold up.

Why are people defending Luke? He's a legitimately awful human being that treats EVERYONE like garbage and when he murders an entire city we're supposed to be sympathetic to him? It's not like an Estellise level of ignorance and sheltered life where, at the very least, she wants to help everyone she can. Luke is an incredibly shitty human being that mistreats his family, his servants, his fiancee, his friend, etc.

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You can go to jail for accidently killing someone. It happens all the time. In the Brandon Lee case they probably had him sign something that said if he got hurt or died it was okay and no one would get in trouble. Plus if you have enough money illegal things are basically legal for you.

PerfectChaosZ posted...

You can go to jail for accidently killing someone

what does this have to do with anything

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PerfectChaosZ posted...

You can go to jail for accidently killing someone. It happens all the time. In the Brandon Lee case they probably had him sign something that said if he got hurt or died it was okay and no one would get in trouble. Plus if you have enough money illegal things are basically legal for you.

You cant sign anything that removes criminal liability, lol.


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...The whole conversation about whether a dude is responsible for 'accidently' nuking a bunch of people and someone using Brandon Lee as an example to say "well, this had no repercussions". People sign waivers all the time that if they get hurt doing this no one will be held liable. Wth?

PerfectChaosZ posted...

accidently'

so he did it on purpose?

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PerfectChaosZ posted...

People sign waivers all the time that if they get hurt doing this no one will be held liable. Wth?

That only applies to civil liability. It has absolutely no bearing on a criminal case.

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Coerced into doing it without knowing the consequences so basically the same as accidently so it can be compared to someone doing something by accident without technically being just an accident since he did it on purpose but I didn't feel like writing that out but you've decided to crawl up my ass about it?

PerfectChaosZ posted...

...The whole conversation about whether a dude is responsible for 'accidently' nuking a bunch of people and someone using Brandon Lee as an example to say "well, this had no repercussions". People sign waivers all the time that if they get hurt doing this no one will be held liable. Wth?

KP used him as an example of a situation in which the killer wasn't at fault, not to highlight the lack of criminal liability, which is entirely irrelevant to what's fair or moral (which you even indicate later in your post by pointing out the law is biased and unfair)

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TheRock1525 posted...

It's not like an Estellise level of ignorance and sheltered life where, at the very least, she wants to help everyone she can.

I haven't played the game in years but I remember Luke being significantly more sheltered than Estelle? She at least read books about other places. Luke was so sheltered he didn't know what a store was.

(Also I will die on the hill that Luke consistently treated other people better than they treated him, even before his character development.)

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NFUN posted...

KP used him as an example of a situation in which the killer wasn't at fault, not to highlight the lack of criminal liability, which is entirely irrelevant to what's fair or moral (which you even indicate later in your post by pointing out the law is biased and unfair)

Actually KP just made a hypothetical scenario about someone getting tricked into shooting someone. Im the one who brought up the real life example of Brandon Lee.


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I just mean that the law would hold him responsible for murdering people even if he didn't know he was murdering people and the BL case was a fluke in that regard as in it doesn't usually work out that the accidental murder wouldn't get in trouble so the law would at least consider him responsible. And it bothered me a little that the Brandon Lee case was being used as the only example of an accidental murder, where nothing happened to the person pulling the trigger, but that normally isn't the case. No idea where the overt hostility to my post comes in. lol

Pretty sure Luke still had educators and tutors, and threw a fit that they were boring and all he wanted to do was train with Van.

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Kenri posted...

Also I will die on the hill that Luke consistently treated other people better than they treated him, even before his character development.

How many times did Tear protect Luke's dumb ass when he wouldn't fight back early in the story?

Not to mention, IIRC, Van was under arrest when they run back into him. So Van was already showing signs of who he truly was and Luke just acts like an idiot and blindly believes him.

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