Current Events > Yet another major study which dictates spanking children is wrong

(+) Yeah! (+)

RetsuZaiZen posted...

Aight you're so mad that you're being intentionally daft now.

The difference I'm speaking to is force applied. You're basically arguing that is irrelevant to the matter. Talk studies all you want, I'm talking about logic.

Your own argument is stupid because fucking yes its better to have ingested a little bit of bleach rather than drinking the entire bottle. One kills you, the other doesn't.

Like arguing walking and running are the same, irrespective of rate of speed of travel .

A kiss is the same as a full makeout session, irrespective of time elapsed. Don't do this. Just stop.

Are you trying to argue that drinking a little bleach is good? Because the argument he is making is that drinking any bleach is bad, just like any amount of hitting children is bad.

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sLaCkEr408___RJ posted...

or at least avoid getting caught

Wherein lies the problem, if they raised you right you wouldn't be out attempting to do bad things and hide them.

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sLaCkEr408___RJ posted...

As a young child I had the sense to not steal, fight, disrespect elders, etc. Maybe my mother expected too much of me, or maybe you expect too little of children. Babies or baby-minded people imo are those who do not know right from wrong.

Are you claiming you were born with the sense of ownership and respect for others?

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IfGodCouldDie posted...

Wherein lies the problem, if they raised you right you wouldn't be out attempting to do bad things and hide them.

That's the problem all parents face, you weirdo.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

Are you claiming you were born with the sense of ownership and respect for others?

No. Are you following the conversation? We were talking about people with no sense/reasoning. I claimed those people were babies. Someone argued they considered those type of people children. I explained as a child I had sense not to do those things and when I went against common sense I would be reprimanded. I had that sense because my parents taught me.

I did bad things because I am my own person with flaws.

sLaCkEr408___RJ posted...

That's the problem all parents face, you weirdo.

No. Are you following the conversation? We were talking about people with no sense/reasoning. I claimed those people were babies. Someone argued they considered those type of people children. I explained as a child I had sense not to do those things and when I went against common sense I would be reprimanded. I had that sense because my parents taught me.

I did bad things because I am my own person with flaws.

Because you were taught, different people learn at different paces and it takes an entire childhood to prepare you for adulthood. Hitting children is not a good way to prepare them for adulthood. Sure you can teach them that a specific action is wrong through hitting them but that doesn't teach them why it is wrong, which is really the most important part of raising children. It also creates a plethora of underlying problems for them as they get older.

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IfGodCouldDie posted...

Sure you can teach them that a specific action is wrong through hitting them but that doesn't teach them why it is wrong, which is really the most important part of raising children

I feel like some people don't want to go through this process. "Because I said so" is often their rationale, which also fails to explain things.

For the most part children aren't stupid, just ignorant. Which is why they're naturally curious.

Adult: Don't do this thing.
Child: Why?
Adult: *Explains why they shouldn't do this thing in a way they can understand*
Child: Oh, okay then!

But people like to go on power trips, they don't want their child to 'question' their authority, when the questioning could just be them genuinely not understanding.

And the only lesson they pick up to adulthood is "obey".

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Umbreon posted...

This is also a factor as well. Spanking undermines confidence.

If I had to guess, you also were less likely to ask your parents for help if you got in trouble?

It depends on what it is I guess. I'd tell my mom. I didn't get in trouble as much as other kids. I feared getting in trouble. It seemed like adults were riding our ass about everything in the early 90's. Gang activity was big then I guess. I'm also autistic, so that played into how I processed things.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

Because you were taught, different people learn at different paces and it takes an entire childhood to prepare you for adulthood. Hitting children is not a good way to prepare them for adulthood. Sure you can teach them that a specific action is wrong through hitting them but that doesn't teach them why it is wrong, which is really the most important part of raising children. It also creates a plethora of underlying problems for them as they get older.

"Spanking" wasn't to teach me why. That's what words are for. I got spanked as reinforcement for repeated offense. I've explained it's not my parents' initial punishment.

Can it be assumed that you didn't get spanked as a child? Do you want to compare lives since you don't believe I was prepared for adulthood properly?

sLaCkEr408___RJ posted...

Can it be assumed that you didn't get spanked as a child? Do you want to compare lives since you don't believe I was prepared for adulthood properly?

I got spanked and beat by multiple members of my family. Not sure what comparing lives is going to accomplish because either of us could lie to prove our point. In fact you've already admitted to be willing to lie so I have no reason to trust any of your anecdotal evidence.

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IfGodCouldDie posted...

I got spanked and beat by multiple members of my family. Not sure what comparing lives is going to accomplish because either of us could lie to prove our point. In fact you've already admitted to be willing to lie so I have no reason to trust any of your anecdotal evidence.

Damn dude you're antagonistic. Willing to lie? Where is that coming from?

You keep implying that my parents did wrong by me. I'm just trying to come to an understanding.

This topic is dookie

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sLaCkEr408___RJ posted...

Damn dude you're antagonistic. Willing to lie? Where is that coming from?

You keep implying that my parents did wrong by me. I'm just trying to come to an understanding.

No I'm not implying they did wrong by you, you've already made it clear that you don't care about how they treated you. My point is that they could have handled things better and raised you better. Just because bad actions don't always have the most detrimental consequences doesn't mean those actions are no longer bad. You may have turned out fine, but not getting hit could have made you turn out better(and studies overwhelmingly suggest you would have.) I personally believe I turned out fine despite the beatings and spankings but I also believe if I had family more willing to teach me at a younger age instead of beating me I would have turned out better. I've spent most of my life having to learn shit for myself because the response to being wrong or making mistakes was being beat or spanked(it depended on who was serving out the "lessons.")

This is why I will never lay a hand on my children. When they do something wrong, or are misbehaving we sit down and talk out their behaviors and I do my best to get them to think critically about their own behavior and actions, a life lesson that will do more for them in life than "if I'm bad ill get hit."

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i bet people thousands of years ago would benefit from this study


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IfGodCouldDie posted...

No I'm not implying they did wrong by you, you've already made it clear that you don't care about how they treated you. My point is that they could have handled things better and raised you better. Just because bad actions don't always have the most detrimental consequences doesn't mean those actions are no longer bad. You may have turned out fine, but not getting hit could have made you turn out better(and studies overwhelmingly suggest you would have.) I personally believe I turned out fine despite the beatings and spankings but I also believe if I had family more willing to teach me at a younger age instead of beating me I would have turned out better. I've spent most of my life having to learn shit for myself because the response to being wrong or making mistakes was being beat or spanked(it depended on who was serving out the "lessons.")

This is why I will never lay a hand on my children. When they do something wrong, or are misbehaving we sit down and talk out their behaviors and I do my best to get them to think critically about their own behavior and actions, a life lesson that will do more for them in life than "if I'm bad ill get hit."

Just to back it up a bit, you did say "if they raised you right". If they didn't do it right, then you're implying they did it wrong.

sLaCkEr408___RJ posted...

Just to back it up a bit, you did say "if they raised you right". If they didn't do it right, then you're implying they did it wrong.

Yes I believe hitting children is wrong, im not sure how this surprises you.

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IfGodCouldDie posted...

Yes I believe hitting children is wrong, im not sure how this surprises you.

I'm not surprised, I'm explaining why I said you're implying my parents did wrong by me.

sLaCkEr408___RJ posted...

I'm not surprised, I'm explaining why I said you're implying my parents did wrong by me.

Ok... my opinion of their parenting does not imply anything about your feelings. Your feelings about your experiences are valid and cannot be determined by another person.

Just because you are fine with what they did does not mean that their actions are objectively right.

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IfGodCouldDie posted...

Ok... my opinion of their parenting does not imply anything about your feelings. Your feelings about your experiences are valid and cannot be determined by another person.

Huh? I wasn't talking about my feelings. What's going on here

sLaCkEr408___RJ posted...

Huh? I wasn't talking about my feelings. What's going on here

I feel like you're starting to purposely act obtuse to derail the conversation we were having so if you'd like this to continue I want to to spell out in great detail the exact problems you are having with what I have said, because if you are genuinely confused I have no problem continuing this conversation and helping you understand what I am trying to say.

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Plenty of people out here defending child abuse

Meanwhile I'm like "oh hey, someone opened a door too fast and I could hear their heavy footsteps as they're walking by, time to have an uncontrollable response wherein I prepare to defend myself from worse harm"

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I know 40-something-year-olds who still flinch if you walk up behind them.

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i turned out fine does not mean that the spanking was ok. It just means it wasnt extremely damaging in your case.

I was in a car wreck as a child and turned out fine, does this mean every kid should be in a car wreck? This is the logic you are trying to use to refute every single study that all have found spanking to be harmful.

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Spanking is also something that can prevent parents from addressing legitimate issues that their kids might be having. Most parents are not paragons of virtue and experts on the human mind. They aren't employing 8 forms of discipline and doing so with perfect precision. They're human beings that are stubborn and habitual.

I still think about how my life could have been different if I wasn't just seen as a fuckup too lazy to stop getting smacked.

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Most of the people that say "I got spanked and turned out fine" did not, in fact, turn out fine

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Gwynevere posted...

Most of the people that say "I got spanked and turned out fine" did not, in fact, turn out fine

I mean, I turned out fine, I wish I had turned out great or even good, but thats why I make a concentrated effort to teach my children to be better than me.

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Its just common sense. When youre hitting children youre showing them that their actions were wrong but youre also teaching them:

• To respect what you say and the lessons you teach out of fear rather than because they have a relationship of mutual trust and respect with you and dont want to disappoint your expectations.
• That violence is the solution to non-violent situations and an effective tool in getting what you want.
• That might makes right.
• If used way too much it can also teach them to avoid getting caught when they make mistakes rather than accepting responsibility and growing from said mistakes.

You may have grown up alright despite all that because your parents were good enough that, despite their flaws, they managed to teach you right. That doesnt make the above lessons any less harmful.

You shouldn't hit kids period. Unless they say something racist.

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Absolutely not

beat people and they will beat you back

I don't get the people against the idea presented in the study. You guys... want to beat your kids?

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Unfortunately, I am already an adult for my parents to spank me and I've already decided that I won't have children
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Sorry about my joke (post 31) it was in poor taste.

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The overlap between people who support corporal punishment and people who think people are children until 25 is curiously high.