Current Events > Man, Pokemon Gold/Silver really played keep-away with the Dark-types.

(+) Yeah! (+)

The brand-new (at the time) Dark type... With only six Pokemon with the type. And of them, you could only get Umbreon before the Elite Four due to evolving the Eevee Bill gifts you in Goldenrod City (or a bred Eevee).

The rest:

• Houndour is only found in the wild near Celadon City, and evolving it is the only way to get Houndoom.
• Murkrow is also only found in a few Kanto routes.
• Sneasel is found only on the path to Mt. Silver (so, after beating the Kanto Gym Leaders); Crystal improved it by throwing it in the Ice Path as well.
• Tyranitar can only be obtained by evolving Larvitar all the way, and Larvitar is only found in Mt. Silver, which, again, is at the very end of the game; Mt. Mortar would have been a perfect place to also have it reside in, but no...

I don't know what they were thinking with this.

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At the time I think the hook was that the new Pokmon were newly discovered species, so I can sort of understand making some exclusive to Kanto.

but yeah, a huge selling point was the new types and you wont even get to use them for most of the campaign >_>

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It was similar with steel types. They wanted to make them "special", I think, and used an approach similar to how type rarity roughly scaled to overall power in gen 1.

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Guide posted...

It was similar with steel types. They wanted to make them "special", I think, and used an approach similar to how type rarity roughly scaled to overall power in gen 1.

The Steel types were much better, though, in that you could get all of them before the Elite Four.

• Magnemite can be found before Olivine City, and of course evolves into Magneton.
• Scyther can be found in the Bug-Catching Contest, and evolved into Scizor with the Metal Coat (which wild Magnemite can carry).
• Forretress evolve from Pineco which you find by headbutting certain trees.
• Steelix needs a Metal Coat as well, but Onix can be found in certain Johto caves.
• Skarmory can be found in the wild south of Blackthorn City, but only in Silver and Crystal.

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Yeah making so many of the new Pokemon available in the postgame only was an awful move. Despite the nostalgia I have for Gold and Crystal, Pokemon has always had questionable design decisions. I think that's why Gen 5 will always be the peak of Pokemon for me. They did almost everything right in those games.

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We discovered a new Pokmon type!

Most of them are in an area you already had been in.

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So weird that Houndor and Murkrow are considered a part of the Johto pokedex despite them being native to Kanto.

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I thought it was neat, they were this special new and rare thing

Chicken posted...

So weird that Houndor and Murkrow are considered a part of the Johto pokedex despite them being native to Kanto.

There wasn't a Johto Pokedex, actually. It was a "New Pokedex" that rearranged all of the existing Pokemon into a new numbering system.

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Yeah I don't know why they did that either. Also most of the Dark types at time were better physical attackers, while Dark could only run off the special stat at the time. For a while, all the new typing did was take away normal stab from Bite.

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I always hated that those ones wete in Kanto. Seemed wrong.

Can anyone recall if HG/SS fixed this?

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There's a lot of flaws with gen 2, it's one of my least favorites when looking at it objectively.

Bad layouts for new pokemon types, fire starter copied the same base stats, choose where to go after ecruteak (but no trainers have things above level 32 and nothing in the wild is above 22), required part for areas are usually really short and the rest of the stuff is locked behind HMs later in the game (but the levels haven't scaled for wild pokemon), most new pokemon have worse TM learn sets than gen 1 meaning unless they had really good stats they were immediately worthless in competitive, etc.

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Umbreon posted...

Yeah I don't know why they did that either. Also most of the Dark types at time were better physical attackers, while Dark could only run off the special stat at the time. For a while, all the new typing did was take away normal stab from Bite.

Yeah, if I could go back and if it were up to me, I would make Dark and Dragon physical types, and Poison and Ghost special types.

Makes much more sense when you consider the kinds of attacks each of those types had.

KlownArt posted...

I always hated that those ones wete in Kanto. Seemed wrong.

Can anyone recall if HG/SS fixed this?

Nope. Aside from the really gimmicky Safari Zone, they're found in the same areas as in the original games. Even Sneasel, which is not in the Ice Path in HGSS.

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KlownArt posted...

I always hated that those ones wete in Kanto. Seemed wrong.

Can anyone recall if HG/SS fixed this?

Houndour is still in route 7 (kanto). Also the new safari zone... But you can't open up the parts that it appears in until post e4.

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KlownArt posted...

I always hated that those ones wete in Kanto. Seemed wrong.

Can anyone recall if HG/SS fixed this?

Technically you could get Murkrow via the Pokewalker before postgame?

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Umbreon posted...

Technically you could get Murkrow via the Pokewalker before postgame?

Wasn't that a downloaded route? :/

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gunplagirl posted...

Wasn't that a downloaded route? :/

According to Bulbapedia, Suburban Area is unlocked by watts.

Though there was a Sableye obtainable in one of those downloaded routes.

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It's a shame HGSS didn't do enough to fix the lack of availability earlier in the game. The one exception I can think of is Misdreavus. Was only in Mt. Silver in Gen 2, but in HGSS you can get it in the caves on the route heading to the Safari Zone. Of course in yet another instance of poor game design, they locked the Dusk Stone behind the postgame as well. So you can't evolve it till then.

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Umbreon posted...

Yeah I don't know why they did that either. Also most of the Dark types at time were better physical attackers, while Dark could only run off the special stat at the time. For a while, all the new typing did was take away normal stab from Bite.

It's not old school Pokemon without incomprehensible stat decisions.

Here's GENGAR, with a MONSTER Special attack!

For Ghost, the physical type.

Because ghosts are known for their solid grasp on the physical world.

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DrizztLink posted...

It's not old school Pokemon without incomprehensible stat decisions.

Here's GENGAR, with a MONSTER Special attack!

For Ghost, the physical type.

Because ghosts are known for their solid grasp on the physical world.

GameFreak just can't help themselves. And like they don't get better, either.

In S&M Alolan Marowak learns its signature move, Shadow Bone at 27. Cubone evolves at level 28. The only way you could use its Signature move is to take it to the Move Relearner at the very end of the game. Just fucking why?

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DrizztLink posted...

It's not old school Pokemon without incomprehensible stat decisions.

Here's GENGAR, with a MONSTER Special attack!

For Ghost, the physical type.

Because ghosts are known for their solid grasp on the physical world.

Yep. Hence:

Solar_Crimson posted...

if I could go back and if it were up to me, I would make Dark and Dragon physical types, and Poison and Ghost special types.

Compsognathus posted...

GameFreak just can't help themselves. And like they don't get better, either.

In S&M Alolan Marowak learns its signature move, Shadow Bone at 27. Cubone evolves at level 28. The only way you could use its Signature move is to take it to the Move Relearner at the very end of the game. Just fucking why?

And they fixed this in Sword/Shield by making it Alolan Marowak's Evolution move.
...But it's impossible to evolve a Cubone into Alolan Marowak in Gen 8.

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GeneralKenobi85 posted...

It's a shame HGSS didn't do enough to fix the lack of availability earlier in the game. The one exception I can think of is Misdreavus. Was only in Mt. Silver in Gen 2, but in HGSS you can get it in the caves on the route heading to the Safari Zone. Of course in yet another instance of poor game design, they locked the Dusk Stone behind the postgame as well. So you can't evolve it till then.

It wouldn't let you anyways, I think they did it like FRLG where you can't evolve things to forms that didn't exist in the original version of that region's dex.

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Crystal is a little better in regards to Larvitar, you can buy one at the Celadon Game Corner.

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kuwab0 posted...

Crystal is a little better in regards to Larvitar, you can buy one at the Celadon Game Corner.

Yeah for an amount of coins that would not be able to be purchased faster than getting to Mt. Silver. :l

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Also, there were only 6 members for Dark & Steel type at the time anyway, & that's including evolution stages.

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gunplagirl posted...

It wouldn't let you anyways, I think they did it like FRLG where you can't evolve things to forms that didn't exist in the original version of that region's dex.

You could evolve Pokmon in HGSS. I took a Mamoswine to E4 round 1 lol.

but tbh all this boneheaded design is why I just cheat. Not gonna make myself grind some annoying minigame and pray to RNGesus for a Dawn stone drop if I feel like using a Froslass. >_>

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darkbuster posted...

Also, there were only 6 members for Dark & Steel type at the time anyway, & that's including evolution stages.

That's like Gastly line being the only ghost and Dratini line being the only Dragon in Gen 1.

Only ghost was weak to Psychic and slower than Alakazam. And it's best move was Psychic.

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