Current Events > Was Capatin America just being nice?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Xethuminra posted...

On that note, the Avengers was & is depicted as a group of people who share little common ground in terms of ideology & Cap pretty much abandons them at one point. Hulk, Iron Man, Thor are not people Steve should trust with his life right off the bat. So? Sure by Civil War he does, and it falls apart anyway, and he is not slow to go AWOL rogue. In AOU? I sincerely doubt it. I think theres numerous scenes where Captain America calls into question the allegiance & sanity of every original Avenger except Black Widow who I guess he was supposed to identify with?

Thats what makes it so powerful whenever he makes a call to arms for the Avengers, despite everything they had been through.

I dont trust you. And I shouldnt. But were all in this together. ~ thats Captain America

without him, the team falls apart. Why do you think that is? They still lament his passing.

Ummm no. Youre definitely wrong on that one.

Watch Avengers again. Steve is clearly still in his WW2 soldier mindset. In Captain America: The First Avenger, every person he meets, from Peggy, to the Colonel, to Howard Stark, are all allies looking to do one thing: defeat the Nazis. He then rescues a ragtag group of soldiers and immediately entrusts them to join his team in his fight against Hydra. Steve never had a reason to doubt anybodys allegiance.

In Avengers, you see a continuation of that. He meets Fury and just accepts a mission from him. He meets Bruce and knowing full well of what the Hulk is capable of, he still welcomes him to the team and shows little to no fear around him. He meets Natasha and thinks shes just a SHIELD agent, without realizing how much of a liar she is. He meets Stark and he treats him with the respect he gave his father until part way through the movie he realizes how much of an asshole he is. He meets Thor, whos existence directly challenges Steves religion, and trusts him. He meets Clint, a man who was fighting for Loki 10 minutes prior, and asks if he has a suit to wear in the upcoming battle.

Steve had little issue trusting people. Do you know when he starts to have issues? Iron Man convinces him. When Iron Man starts hacking into SHIELD, Steve sees that as a problem. But Tony convinces him that theres something wrong, so Steve investigates and finds that SHIELD is studying and re-creating Hydra weapons. These are the breadcrumbs that lead to Steve distrusting Fury, and once he has more experience with Widow, he begins to distrust her as well.

Your understanding that Steve questions the allegiance and sanity of every Avenger except for Widow is so absolutely asinine that its hard to believe were talking about the same movies. Widow is literally the first Avenger that Steve begins to genuinely distrust, and the whole point of Black Widows role in Captain America: The Winter Soldier is to grow Nat as a character. They show that she is an untrustworthy teammate whos sole allegiance is a mission youre not even aware exists and eventually show her turn into a true friend and ally with motivations no longer obfuscated. Steve and Nats relationship does not come from them identifying with one another initially, it takes trauma and common experience through the events of Cap 2 to lead them to realize that they can be open with one another.

On top of that, we can even talk about STIKE Team. Steve routinely ran missions with them and literally trusted them with his life. They were his team, yet they were ultimately Hydra. Dont you think if Steve was constantly taking precautions around the people that he met, that he wouldve had a better plan than to fight them all in an elevator? He literally didnt know until seconds before the attack, when he noticed themselves positioning themselves for attack.

Lastly the biggest proof that Steves fault was being too trusting, is that in Civil War he literally is more than willing to officially break off with the Avengers when theyre sent to arrest his former friend. Steve has no reason to know that Bucky wasnt involved in blowing up the UN. Steve knows that Bucky was tortured for decades and that his friend is barely in there, but he trusts that his friend couldnt have done it. He trusts that he can still bring his friend out of Hydras spell. He trusts it enough to come into direct conflict with some of his more recent best friends.

Steves distrust was for large organizations run by people with agendas that are unknown. Steve trusted his friends time and again, often despite them letting him down. Steve also trusted that the people he was introduced to (random other soldiers that he teamed with and befriended in WW2, or the people he met with SHIELD) come from a good place of heart, until proven otherwise.

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K

Xethuminra posted...

K

lmao imagine being so butthurt at being incorrect that thats how you respond

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No, i just really dont care.

I dont psychoanalyze gear-shifted movie characters.

Maybe I was wrong and Captain America is a gullible trusting guy who lets complete monsters watch his back without a second thought or any attempt to distance himself. No problem, bro.

like

Just in case you didnt realize I was making a joke about Endgame & deploying the Its tactical joke, then here you go........
.... I was making a joke about Endgame & deploying the the Its tactical. joke.

1) There is no halfway worthy either you are or you arent.

2) Thors response I knew it! Tells you everything you need to know. Hes been worthy this entire time, he chose to hide it until it was absolutely necessary

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and then theres that ^

Logically, a soldier who discovers he can use a super weapon only withholds that information from this comrades for one reason.

SwayM posted...

1) There is no halfway worthy either you are or you arent.

2) Thors response I knew it! Tells you everything you need to know. Hes been worthy this entire time, he chose to hide it until it was absolutely necessary

Original time Captain tried to pick up the hammer, Odin was still in charge of who was and was not worthy. When he finally picked it up there at the end, Thor would be the one in charge of that distinction because he owned the hammer when Odin passed and was at the time, the King of Asgard. He didnt officially give up the throne until the end of the movie.

Xethuminra posted...

No, i just really dont care.

I dont psychoanalyze gear-shifted movie characters.

Maybe I was wrong and Captain America is a gullible trusting guy who lets complete monsters watch his back without a second thought or any attempt to distance himself. No problem, bro.

like

Just in case you didnt realize I was making a joke about Endgame & deploying the Its tactical joke, then here you go........
.... I was making a joke about Endgame & deploying the the Its tactical. joke.

I dont give a shit about your joke about Endgame, I wasnt even responding to that. Im responding to the next thing you said, that Steve was using it as a tactical edge against Thor. Thats absolutely laughable. Steve knows theres literally nothing he can do against Thor. Steve also trusts Thor with his life. End of conversation.

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Im glad you got a laugh about it.

That was the intention.

Let me not go to wiki or pick my brain for every interaction Captain America had with the Avengers spanning the entire MCU.

Xethuminra posted...

Im glad you got a laugh about it.

That was the intention.

Let me not go to wiki or pick my brain for every interaction Captain America had with the Avengers spanning the entire MCU.

Lmao. Okay dude. Out of curiosity, do you use the psychoanalyze fictional characters excuse whenever you get called out for pretending to you know what youre talking about? Or is that reserved as a backup to its a joke?


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2SweetforTurtle posted...

Lmao. Okay dude. Out of curiosity, do you use the psychoanalyze fictional characters excuse whenever you get called out for pretending to you know what youre talking about? Or is that reserved as a backup to its a joke?

I dont care about psychoanalyzing the entire MCU as if it were coherent. I like looking for Easter Eggs

Xethuminra posted...

I dont care about psychoanalyzing the entire MCU as if it were coherent. I like looking for Easter Eggs

Thats fair, the MCU isnt entirely coherent. Caps personality is pretty consistent and easy to follow though. Hes never been much of a thinking 12 steps ahead kind of guy. He is however, a lets not bully or embarrass unnecessarily kind of guy, hence why he pretended he couldnt lift the hammer.

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2SweetforTurtle posted...

Thats fair, the MCU isnt entirely coherent. Caps personality is pretty consistent and easy to follow though. Hes never been much of a thinking 12 steps ahead kind of guy. He is however, a lets not bully or embarrass unnecessarily kind of guy, hence why he pretended he couldnt lift the hammer.

Nor am I mind-reader. In my opinion, when youre dealing with a God from an alien planet that youve never been to.....

Theres a whole lotta gray between Embarrass, Provoke, & Challenge.

daynlokki posted...

Original time Captain tried to pick up the hammer, Odin was still in charge of who was and was not worthy. When he finally picked it up there at the end, Thor would be the one in charge of that distinction because he owned the hammer when Odin passed and was at the time, the King of Asgard. He didnt officially give up the throne until the end of the movie.

Yeah thats not how it works lol

Its not like Odin is sitting in Asgard and his secretary comes in like

Mister Odin, you have Tony Stark and James Rhodes trying to pick up Mjolnir in New York.

Not worthy.

Odin put an enchantment on it. For as long as Mjolnir exists, it carries that enchantment. Theres no active component to it.


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2SweetforTurtle posted...

lmao imagine being so butthurt at being incorrect that thats how you respond

2SweetforTurtle posted...

Ummm no. Youre definitely wrong on that one.

Watch Avengers again. Steve is clearly still in his WW2 soldier mindset. In Captain America: The First Avenger, every person he meets, from Peggy, to the Colonel, to Howard Stark, are all allies looking to do one thing: defeat the Nazis. He then rescues a ragtag group of soldiers and immediately entrusts them to join his team in his fight against Hydra. Steve never had a reason to doubt anybodys allegiance.

In Avengers, you see a continuation of that. He meets Fury and just accepts a mission from him. He meets Bruce and knowing full well of what the Hulk is capable of, he still welcomes him to the team and shows little to no fear around him. He meets Natasha and thinks shes just a SHIELD agent, without realizing how much of a liar she is. He meets Stark and he treats him with the respect he gave his father until part way through the movie he realizes how much of an asshole he is. He meets Thor, whos existence directly challenges Steves religion, and trusts him. He meets Clint, a man who was fighting for Loki 10 minutes prior, and asks if he has a suit to wear in the upcoming battle.

Steve had little issue trusting people. Do you know when he starts to have issues? Iron Man convinces him. When Iron Man starts hacking into SHIELD, Steve sees that as a problem. But Tony convinces him that theres something wrong, so Steve investigates and finds that SHIELD is studying and re-creating Hydra weapons. These are the breadcrumbs that lead to Steve distrusting Fury, and once he has more experience with Widow, he begins to distrust her as well.

Your understanding that Steve questions the allegiance and sanity of every Avenger except for Widow is so absolutely asinine that its hard to believe were talking about the same movies. Widow is literally the first Avenger that Steve begins to genuinely distrust, and the whole point of Black Widows role in Captain America: The Winter Soldier is to grow Nat as a character. They show that she is an untrustworthy teammate whos sole allegiance is a mission youre not even aware exists and eventually show her turn into a true friend and ally with motivations no longer obfuscated. Steve and Nats relationship does not come from them identifying with one another initially, it takes trauma and common experience through the events of Cap 2 to lead them to realize that they can be open with one another.

On top of that, we can even talk about STIKE Team. Steve routinely ran missions with them and literally trusted them with his life. They were his team, yet they were ultimately Hydra. Dont you think if Steve was constantly taking precautions around the people that he met, that he wouldve had a better plan than to fight them all in an elevator? He literally didnt know until seconds before the attack, when he noticed themselves positioning themselves for attack.

Lastly the biggest proof that Steves fault was being too trusting, is that in Civil War he literally is more than willing to officially break off with the Avengers when theyre sent to arrest his former friend. Steve has no reason to know that Bucky wasnt involved in blowing up the UN. Steve knows that Bucky was tortured for decades and that his friend is barely in there, but he trusts that his friend couldnt have done it. He trusts that he can still bring his friend out of Hydras spell. He trusts it enough to come into direct conflict with some of his more recent best friends.

Steves distrust was for large organizations run by people with agendas that are unknown. Steve trusted his friends time and again, often despite them letting him down. Steve also trusted that the people he was introduced to (random other soldiers that he teamed with and befriended in WW2, or the people he met with SHIELD) come from a good place of heart, until proven otherwise.

That was beautiful btw. Thank you for this.