Current Events > what was da most successful communist state in history?

(+) Yeah! (+)

like from what i kno the ussr wasnt communist & neither is china rn but im asking abt actual communist countries

vietnam maybe idk

Real Communism hasn't been tried yet

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EndOfDiscOne posted...

Real Communism hasn't been tried yet

lol

There has been no successful communist state. Most of them have changed to socialist/democratic. Go read up on what communism is and come back and you'll see why it doesn't work.

Get educated.

Its hard to judge since the United States severely handicaps every communist country for no good reason.

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Cuba still exists as a communist state. How successful they are though I leave to you to figure out.

Yugoslavia was a communist state and is probably one of the better examples of successful communist states, even though it was brutal and merciless to 'enemies of the state' and murdered or exiled historic minorities with no qualms.

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Crash posted...

How convenient!

It's true. Communism isn't possible on a national level

it's 2 sp00ky 4 moi

communism gives me the heebies

Whose alt is this
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hold me comrade

UnholyMudcrab posted...

Whose alt is this

Vegy

probably Yugoslavia tbh

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Hy-Vee

i dont know any statws that were communist, certainly not florida

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There's never been a Communist state as described by Marx or Lenin, nor will there probably ever be. At least, certainly not in our lifetime. Humans are too greedy.

But to answer your question, Vietnam is probably the closest in regards to "actual" Communism that you can point at currently.

Crescente posted...

There has been no successful communist state. Most of them have changed to socialist/democratic. Go read up on what communism is and come back and you'll see why it doesn't work.

Get educated.

IDK, the Hawaiian islands were essentially a Communist state before colonialists and missionaries showed up. They didn't even have a word for "own" or "ownership". It was a foreign concept to them.

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the answer depends on how you define "successful", "communist", and "state"

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The Inca Empire

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EndOfDiscOne posted...

Real Communism hasn't been tried yet

true but i mean da closest dat has been tried

ThePusher posted...

true but i mean da closest dat has been tried

again: how are you defining "successful", "communist", and "state" here?

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china seems to be kicking the crap out of america in lots of ways right now, so them i guess.

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China

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Ilishe posted...

Yugoslavia was a communist state and is probably one of the better examples of successful communist states, even though it was brutal and merciless to 'enemies of the state' and murdered or exiled historic minorities with no qualms.

Oh wow that's all huh


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Vietnam is definitely communist in name only

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how so?

Cubas certainly got its issues but they boast a high literacy rate and life expectancy, and they have pretty world renowned healthcare

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monkmith posted...

china seems to be kicking the crap out of america in lots of ways right now, so them i guess.

Oh yes, life in China is so great.

monkmith posted...

china seems to be kicking the crap out of america in lots of ways right now, so them i guess.

Hell yeah. We should move there. I heard they have some great social services.

CHM_Punk posted...

wat

those r just facts cuba does wat dey can w limited resources

California

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A hole in the ground.

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China is without a doubt the shining example of communism's success. Before China was communist, the country did not have adequate productive forces to produce enough food for its population, so people would regularly starve to death during peacetime. In addition, China was under-developed by other imperialist countries. Basically they destroyed China's industry and did not allow them to build factories or mills.

Now lets turn to the accomplishments of Chinese socialism and we find today that China has achieved food security, feeding 22% of the world's population with only 9% of the arable land. Also, the world's largest steel company, Baowu, is in China. The world's largest hydroelectric power plant is also in China, called Three Gorges Dam. The World Bank, hardly a bastion of pro-socialist thought, reports that about 850 million people have been lifted out of extreme poverty between the years 1981 and 2015. Here in the capitalist U.S. ending poverty is not even a goal. Instead the U.S. wages a war on the poor. The average life expectancy of Chinese people rose 42 years, from 35 years in 1949 to 77 years in 2018. Compare this to the U.S. where life expectancy has declined for several years in a row.

It is also beyond dispute that there is a large section of Chinas economy that is, in essence, capitalist in nature and that gives play to the market. This sector has been harnessed to assist Chinas development and faces restriction for example state banking institutions favor state-owned enterprises, production facilities and distribution networks that are owned and controlled by the peoples government, yet, because China is not a capitalist country, there are no periodic crises of capitalism. Capitalism is governed by economic laws and so is socialism. The result is that class struggle continues to be a factor in society and inside the Communist Party and it could not be otherwise.

This method I have used of stressing the strong points but noting the problems is the approach that should be used by revolutionary and progressive persons. If there are problems with China they can be acknowledged or talked about there is nothing wrong with that. But the method we reject is that of subjective idealism, where an image of socialism is created in ones mind and that image is pitted against reality and then that reality doesnt measure up. Be it China, Cuba, or Democratic Korea - we all know people who pick up one or more imagined and/or real defect and then say, Well its not socialism. Its not socialism because it is not in accordance with what I want it to be. This approach is wrong and ultimately foolish, and no one wants to be a fool.

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Shablagoo posted...

China is without a doubt the shining example of communism's success. Before China was communist, the country did not have adequate productive forces to produce enough food for its population, so people would regularly starve to death during peacetime. In addition, China was under-developed by other imperialist countries. Basically they destroyed China's industry and did not allow them to build factories or mills.

Now lets turn to the accomplishments of Chinese socialism and we find today that China has achieved food security, feeding 22% of the world's population with only 9% of the arable land. Also, the world's largest steel company, Baowu, is in China. The world's largest hydroelectric power plant is also in China, called Three Gorges Dam. The World Bank, hardly a bastion of pro-socialist thought, reports that about 850 million people have been lifted out of extreme poverty between the years 1981 and 2015. Here in the capitalist U.S. ending poverty is not even a goal. Instead the U.S. wages a war on the poor. The average life expectancy of Chinese people rose 42 years, from 35 years in 1949 to 77 years in 2018. Compare this to the U.S. where life expectancy has declined for several years in a row.

It is also beyond dispute that there is a large section of Chinas economy that is, in essence, capitalist in nature and that gives play to the market. This sector has been harnessed to assist Chinas development and faces restriction for example state banking institutions favor state-owned enterprises, production facilities and distribution networks that are owned and controlled by the peoples government, yet, because China is not a capitalist country, there are no periodic crises of capitalism. Capitalism is governed by economic laws and so is socialism. The result is that class struggle continues to be a factor in society and inside the Communist Party and it could not be otherwise.

This method I have used of stressing the strong points but noting the problems is the approach that should be used by revolutionary and progressive persons. If there are problems with China they can be acknowledged or talked about there is nothing wrong with that. But the method we reject is that of subjective idealism, where an image of socialism is created in ones mind and that image is pitted against reality and then that reality doesnt measure up. Be it China, Cuba, or Democratic Korea - we all know people who pick up one or more imagined and/or real defect and then say, Well its not socialism. Its not socialism because it is not in accordance with what I want it to be. This approach is wrong and ultimately foolish, and no one wants to be a fool.

LOL great troll. 10/10

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shiby with it posted...

LOL great troll. 10/10

Was going to say something like this lol.

It's worth asking: what is meant by "successful" and what is meant by "communist"?

For example, with the latter, if we're going by a strict definition of the proletariat(i.e. workers) "owning the means of production", then the answer is "what communist states?" Probably Marx would have no end of complaints about the states that, today, identify themselves as "communist", but, then, he was nothing if not a fusspot. But he commended the Paris Commune for being so dedicated to democracy, even as he criticized it for not taking decisive action against the French Republic. Typically, modern communist countries don't have many meaningful elections.

As for "successful": are we talking in terms of economic growth, or in terms of quality of life?
The former case points directly to the old Soviet Union and the PRC, which achieved relatively rapid industrialization and explosive GDP growth(at least, for a time). If the latter, well...Cuba, generally speaking, has a way higher quality-of-life than basically any country with a similar GDP: Cubans tend to be healthier, live longer, etc. etc. than similarly developed countries.

On the subject of Cuba: some info about the embargo:
-It applies not just to Cuba, but any ship that docks at a Cuban port. Any ship found to have docked in Cuba may not dock in a US port for six months and may be subject to US fines. And the USN regards the Caribbean as Mare Nostrum. Basically, it makes doing any kind of business in Cuba at all a total pain.

-Under the legal terms of the embargo, the only way for it to end is for Cuba to make full restitution to everyone(or their heirs) whose property was seized by the communist government. Doing so would result in mass privatisation of state assets, impoverish the country, and partially restore the economic status quo that existed under Fulgencio Battista. Any company found to have trafficked with the owners of these "stolen" assets may be subject to litigation by its "legitimate" owners and may be excluded from doing business in the United States.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_Cuba

And, as for free trade: it effectively strangles most industrialization schemes in their cribs. Like, South Korea, China, Japan, Taiwan, Finland, and Singapore all used extensive state investment, tariffs, and blatant piracy to develop their industrial bases(just like Western Europe and the US, in fact). Firms in relatively undeveloped countries simply can't make, say...cars or steel or cell phones as well or efficiently as firms from developed nations, and firms. Hell, the US and most other industrialized nations still have tariff barriers and/or heavily subsidize certain sectors(agriculture, for instance.)

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ThePusher posted...

how so?

Because it's been a market based economy since the eighties. It's a mixed economy, which means the government doesn't own and operate industry. It's sort of similiar to what you see in China and Singapore. Where the government guides industry rather than operating it and completely removing competition.

It is most definitely not a Maxist communist state. If you take a walk down the street of Hanoi or ho chi Minh you're literally surrounded by private enterprise. Almost all families are running some kind of business out of the street level of their homes.

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Shablagoo posted...

China is without a doubt the shining example of communism's success. Before China was communist, the country did not have adequate productive forces to produce enough food for its population, so people would regularly starve to death during peacetime. In addition, China was under-developed by other imperialist countries. Basically they destroyed China's industry and did not allow them to build factories or mills.

Now lets turn to the accomplishments of Chinese socialism and we find today that China has achieved food security, feeding 22% of the world's population with only 9% of the arable land. Also, the world's largest steel company, Baowu, is in China. The world's largest hydroelectric power plant is also in China, called Three Gorges Dam. The World Bank, hardly a bastion of pro-socialist thought, reports that about 850 million people have been lifted out of extreme poverty between the years 1981 and 2015. Here in the capitalist U.S. ending poverty is not even a goal. Instead the U.S. wages a war on the poor. The average life expectancy of Chinese people rose 42 years, from 35 years in 1949 to 77 years in 2018. Compare this to the U.S. where life expectancy has declined for several years in a row.

It is also beyond dispute that there is a large section of Chinas economy that is, in essence, capitalist in nature and that gives play to the market. This sector has been harnessed to assist Chinas development and faces restriction for example state banking institutions favor state-owned enterprises, production facilities and distribution networks that are owned and controlled by the peoples government, yet, because China is not a capitalist country, there are no periodic crises of capitalism. Capitalism is governed by economic laws and so is socialism. The result is that class struggle continues to be a factor in society and inside the Communist Party and it could not be otherwise.

This method I have used of stressing the strong points but noting the problems is the approach that should be used by revolutionary and progressive persons. If there are problems with China they can be acknowledged or talked about there is nothing wrong with that. But the method we reject is that of subjective idealism, where an image of socialism is created in ones mind and that image is pitted against reality and then that reality doesnt measure up. Be it China, Cuba, or Democratic Korea - we all know people who pick up one or more imagined and/or real defect and then say, Well its not socialism. Its not socialism because it is not in accordance with what I want it to be. This approach is wrong and ultimately foolish, and no one wants to be a fool.

ITP mao wasn't a communist

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Jaded_Dragon posted...

Humans are too greedy

This is why ultimately all forms of government end up bad.

This is why one of the founding fathers said government needed to be uprooted and started from scratch every couple hundred years. Something along those lines anyways iirc

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Da USSR
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au_gold posted...

Its hard to judge since the United States severely handicaps every communist country for no good reason.

It's funny how communist states fail when they don't have the capitalist ones to rely on.

Solid Snake07 posted...

It is most definitely not a Maxist communist state.

Nah we tend to len-max here in commie town.

Solid Snake07 posted...

ITP mao wasn't a communist

wut

yes he was

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Who handles international trade in True Communism? Without money, does the rest of the capitalist world trade goods for goods? Do the people who do the shitty jobs that no one likes but have to be done not represent a lower class in this classless society? As we can see now, people are getting fed up with low wages. How do we sell doing those jobs for no wages if your life is the same whether you work or not?

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EndOfDiscOne posted...

Real Communism hasn't been tried yet

Why would it? It's only there to forcefully bring order to countries that have practically collapsed.

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China obviously

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EndOfDiscOne posted...

Real Communism hasn't been tried yet

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People saying real communism hasnt been tried havent read any Marxist literature. A stateless, classless society isnt meant to magically spring up overnight. That would be a foolish proposal and completely antithetical to communist writings.

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Shablagoo posted...

wut

yes he was

Those famines you're referring to that happened "before China was communist" mostly occured in the late 50s and early 60s. The communist party and Mao had been in power for nearly a decade at that point.

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