Current Events > Military Guys: Why is there a stark difference between NCOs and officers?

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In all movies, it seems like NCOs are treated like shit and officers are treated like royalty. A quick Google search also shows that NCOs can't be generals either; they can only be a sergeant major.

And cross referencing the pay chart, a 10-year experienced sergeant major at E-9 gets paid the same as a 3-year experienced lieutenant at O-3; and apparently (from my Google searches), it's not too difficult to become O-3 (it seems almost automatic given time), whereas reaching E-9 is extremely difficult.

So what's with the difference?

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You can become an NCO over time by being promoted, whereas most if not all officers are coming out of a military academy with a bachelor's or higher. The difference in how they're treated is mostly a byproduct of how they got to that position. In many cases you would be comparing someone with a high school degree who had been around long enough to become an NCO versus someone with a Masters or PhD from West Point graduating directly into an officer position.

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IdiotMachine posted...

So what's with the difference?

College degree

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s0nicfan posted...

You can become an NCO over time by being promoted, whereas most if not all officers are coming out of a military academy with a bachelor's or higher. The difference in how they're treated is mostly a byproduct of how they got to that position. In many cases you would be comparing someone with a high school degree who had been around long enough to become an NCO versus someone with a Masters or PhD from West Point graduating directly into an officer position.

Looked gf posted...

College degree

It just doesn't seem fair that a 40-year experienced NCO is outranked by, and treated like shit by, a 22 year old college graduate.

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NCOs are mid and senior grade enlisted members, Officers are commissioned by Congressional appointment.

Speaking from a Navy perspective, because each branch is different, the big differences come from scope of leadership and scope of responsibility.

Officers start out in a leadership role. They generally progress to larger and larger sizes of units as they advance through the ranks. Enlisted members are meant to be technical experts first and foremost and only start assuming formal leadership roles at the NCO level. The leadership level for like an E-5 or E-6 would be comparable to what an O-1 or O-2 would be responsible for oftentimes (of course, you have an officer over that E-5 or E-6). Where you might have like an O-5 in charge of a ship, the senior ranking enlisted member will be an E-8 or E-9.

And the second part is the legal responsibility. Officers have to know a shit ton more about the law and how the law impacts operational planning and execution than enlisted do. Enlisted have to be able to do the job they are assigned and that's about it.

Officers have stricter requirements than Enlisted, especially with regards to education (need at least a Bachelor's to join).


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s0nicfan posted...

You can become an NCO over time by being promoted, whereas most if not all officers are coming out of a military academy with a bachelor's or higher. The difference in how they're treated is mostly a byproduct of how they got to that position. In many cases you would be comparing someone with a high school degree who had been around long enough to become an NCO versus someone with a Masters or PhD from West Point graduating directly into an officer position.

Many officers are coming out of civilian educational institutions, not service academies. There are also quite a few "mustangs" (enlisted who went officer). Also the service academies are undergraduate level - the military has postgraduate level institutions that people can attend later on in a career.

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IdiotMachine posted...

It just doesn't seem fair that a 40-year experienced NCO is outranked by, and treated like shit by, a 22 year old college graduate.

The NCO is outranked, but no butter bar is going to disrespect a senior NCO unless they wanna get decked on


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IdiotMachine posted...

It just doesn't seem fair that a 40-year experienced NCO is outranked by, and treated like shit by, a 22 year old college graduate.

They don't treat them like shit. The way the positions work out, the officer will ask the NCO if their plan is fesable. The NCO will draw on their experience and recommend what they feel is the best way to proceed. Most times the officer will listen to their NCOs, but it IS totally up to the officer on how they proceed.

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They're just lower on the chain of command. The military, like most any other career, requires a college degree to progress past a certain point.

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IdiotMachine posted...

And cross referencing the pay chart, a 10-year experienced sergeant major at E-9 gets paid the same as a 3-year experienced lieutenant at O-3; and apparently (from my Google searches), it's not too difficult to become O-3 (it seems almost automatic given time), whereas reaching E-9 is extremely difficult.

Pay scales exist to cover all extremes in rank and TIS, but i can tell you there are no SGM with only 10 years in. Maybe a branch transfer.

s0nicfan posted...

You can become an NCO over time by being promoted, whereas most if not all officers are coming out of a military academy with a bachelor's or higher. The difference in how they're treated is mostly a byproduct of how they got to that position. In many cases you would be comparing someone with a high school degree who had been around long enough to become an NCO versus someone with a Masters or PhD from West Point graduating directly into an officer position.

This is fairly accurate, but most officers aren't coming from military academies, they're coming from all over and can really have degrees in anything. I worked with pilots who came in with degrees in religious studies of all things.

Basically, it's a rank thing, but there's nuance. For one, no lieutenant, even though they have rank, is going to disrespect a SNCO. They'll issue orders, as they should since they're in charge, but disrespecting your SNCOs is a fast way to lose the respect of everyone under your command.

Also, it's entirely possible for an NCO to eventually become a general. They just have to get approved to go to OTS and make their way through the officer ranks, which is an entirely different process than getting promoted as an enlisted person.

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officers are comissioned, enlisted are not

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