Current Events > Are Picard/ Discovery really that bad/ SJW?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Was thinking of getting into modern Star Trek since I loved DS9 but I've heard nothing but bad things.

Are they actually that bad or are they good?

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Its a SJW Star Trek reboot. Dont bother.

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I dont like them I only like kirk and spock

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star trek has always been a warrior for social justice

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Has nothing to do with "SJW", Star Trek has always attempted to be socially progressive. They just lack the spirit and writing and style of earlier Trek.

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It has nothing to do with "SJW", it's just bad writing

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The reboot movies by J.J. Abrams featuring Kirk and Spock, are decent. If you want more Star Trek, watch those movies

both picard and discovery just suffer from horrific writing. it's like they wanted to make scifi shows but didn't want to actually make it like star trek. it contradicts the rest of star trek, and sometimes even contradicts itself

lower decks (the animated show) is better, but relies heavily on "oh hey remember that from the good trek?!?"

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The first 2 movies where ok, the 3rd was horrible.

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Imagine thinking star trek of all things "got woke"

Holy fucking shit

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They are alright. A lot of people didnt like some of the changes that they made (particularly to Klingons) but none of the things that are bad about either series have anything to do with wokeness or SJW stuff.

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Star Trek was always SJW, sorry to break your heart.

Also, Rage Against The Machine is anti-government.

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Do you guys just put SJW in front of stuff that you don't like.

To the question, I found both the be horrible. I gave up on them. Like on Picard.. that should be Geordi. Data was his best friend and they treated him like they are Jeopardy producers. Beyond that the writing is a not good. There is a character who kills someone important and they are like oh well.

Since you ain't SJW you should like Lower Decks. The main to characters are like Fry and Leela. But with there sexist swapped.


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The Orville is the best Star Trek -esque show we've had in decades.

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By internet neckbeard standards Star Trek has been SJW since the first episode of Kirk

SkyUmbreon posted...

Star Trek was always SJW, sorry to break your heart.

Also, Rage Against The Machine is anti-government.

No idea who that band is.

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Mezcla posted...

Imagine thinking star trek of all things "got woke"

Holy fucking shit

Yeah Jesus lol. Talk about not understanding a show

reminds me of when Black Sabbath put out the Black Lives Matter Masters of Reality shirt and a bunch of the comments were complaining they should keep politics out of metal or some shit

TC if you use the phrase SJW seriously, re-evaluate your life imo

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ColdOne666 posted...

No idea who that band is.

This is a lie

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Smackems posted...

This is a lie

Nope but I see your trolling so welcome to the ignore list

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ColdOne666 posted...

Nope but I see your trolling so welcome to the ignore list

You didn't do it

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The only real problem with them is that writers nowadays only know how to hamfist their point across either through repetition or just being blatant.

It's more or less the same as Star Trek ever was, just... More blatant. Whether that's good or bad is up to you.

R_Jackal posted...

The only real problem with them is that writers nowadays only know how to hamfist their point across either through repetition or just being blatant.

It's more or less the same as Star Trek ever was, just... More blatant. Whether that's good or bad is up to you.

https://youtu.be/pa0PUkLuHec

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I don't think they're bad

There were flaws to the pacing in Picard, and S2 of Discovery went a bit too "The Princess Is In Another Castle" in its front half (and the show as a whole opens on one of the cringiest scenes in all of Trek), but so much if the criticism of the shows is really overblown IMO.

It's trendy to hate on Kurtzman, but I really think that even if Trek had been on telly non-stop since Enterprise I think that the product we would get then would be about the same as what we are getting now - TV has become far more serialised in the last twenty years, and the "each season tells one long story" model is absolutely where the show was gradually heading even at the time, with DS9 having the long Dominion War arc and Enterprise having the Xindi in S3 and its three-episode arcs in S4. The seasons always end in a very Trek sort of way, it's just that the show seems darker because we don't get to that Trek-like ending until the season is nearly done on account of each season being one big story

They aren't flawless shows, of course, but they really aren't anywhere near as bad as the angry side of the internet would suggest.

And when people complain about Trek "suddenly" being SJW and unsubtle, I really have to wonder just how damn rose-tinted the glasses they're looking at TOS etc. through really are.

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Doe posted...

https://youtu.be/pa0PUkLuHec

Lol what a laugh, ok i won't be watching it.

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Tom Clark posted...

I don't think they're bad

There were flaws to the pacing in Picard, and S2 of Discovery went a bit too "The Princess Is In Another Castle" in its front half (and the show as a whole opens on one of the cringiest scenes in all of Trek), but so much if the criticism of the shows is really overblown IMO.

It's trendy to hate on Kurtzman, but I really think that even if Trek had been on telly non-stop since Enterprise I think that the product we would get then would be about the same as what we are getting now - TV has become far more serialised in the last twenty years, and the "each season tells one long story" model is absolutely where the show was gradually heading even at the time, with DS9 having the long Dominion War arc and Enterprise having the Xindi in S3 and its three-episode arcs in S4. The seasons always end in a very Trek sort of way, it's just that the show seems darker because we don't get to that Trek-like ending until the season is nearly done on account of each season being one big story

They aren't flawless shows, of course, but they really aren't anywhere near as bad as the angry side of the internet would suggest.

And when people complain about Trek "suddenly" being SJW and unsubtle, I really have to wonder just how damn rose-tinted the glasses they're looking at TOS etc. through really are.

This is one of the best takes on the new Trek series I have seen. 100% agree

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Do people realize that there is a difference between progressive and SJW? People seem to often conflate these terms.

If a show is attempting to be progressive, but the writing is bad and everything comes off ham fisted then it is SJW

So yes Star Trek can be too "woke" in theory. I haven't watched any newer stuff so I won't comment on that


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Tom Clark posted...

it's just that the show seems darker because we don't get to that Trek-like ending until the season is nearly done on account of each season being one big story

As always when I speak on the subject, feel free to ignore me since I've not watched them, only heard details, but this doesn't seem true.

Like what turned me off of Picard is learning about Raffi, a drug addict who lives in a shitty trailer because she got fired from Starfleet and resents Picard's wealthy lifestyle. That's just so antithetical to Trek.

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Quality, or lack thereof, aside, whining about Star Trek being too SJW makes me think that people haven't seen much of Star Trek to begin with.

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pegusus123456 posted...

Like what turned me off of Picard is learning about Raffi, a drug addict who lives in a shitty trailer because she got fired from Starfleet and resents Picard's wealthy lifestyle. That's just so antithetical to Trek.

Raffi got fired from Starfleet specifically because Picard tried to make a moral stand and ended up quitting, and as his Number One she was forced out, which is why there's resentment, not because she doesn't like his lifestyle. It's implied that her living in a trailer is a sort of self-imposed exile because of this. She's in a bad place at the start of the season because she's still got Picard's "old-school" Starfleet values, and that doesn't gel with what Starfleet has become in the wake of a terror attack [and, again, that's absolutely a story the show would have done whoever was in charge, as Trek always parallelled current geopolitical situations] - when she teams up with Picard and Rios - another character who left Starfleet in protest - you see her finding her idealism again and pulling herself together, to the extent that by the end of the season the crew of La Sirena have turned around Starfleet's current stance and got them back on track, with their little ship leading a whole fleet of starships in the finale, purely by sticking to their moral code and the ideals that Starfleet should embody - it's as Star Trek as it comes, it's just that it's not an arc that is resolved in a standalone episode (and, as I've said already, the pacing in Picard is a bit all over the place, and I'll be the first to admit that Raffi's arc isn't as well handled as Rios' [he's a fantastic chararacter, btw]) or handwaved in a status quo "now everyone is all a team" way in the next episode, so it takes time for the Trek-feeling payoff.

But in general, I don't see how a character who has spiralled after losing everything because she tried to do the right thing, and is put back on track by continuing to do the right thing in spite of the odds is antithetical to Trek when previous shows have had reformed terrorists, people who have been kicked out of Starfleet for causing the deaths of trainees etc. as main characters. It's all about where the characters are going, not where they start from.

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Mezcla posted...

Imagine thinking star trek of all things "got woke"

Holy fucking shit

This.

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TommyG663513 posted...

Do people realize that there is a difference between progressive and SJW? People seem to often conflate these terms.

Saying something is a SJW because it is progressive and sucks is why this terms means almost nothing now .

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Imagine thinking that Star Trek went SJW.

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cjsdowg posted...

Saying something is a SJW because it is progressive and sucks is why this terms means almost nothing now .

I thought it always meant accomplishing absolutely nothing besides attempting to be progressive.

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They are quite bad yes. They are made by people who fundamentally don't understand star trek or for that matter good writing.

They aren't too horribly SJW though, just really really really badly written.

Watch the 5 real trek series and then stop. There isn't trek beyond that.

If you've made it through all those and looking for something to scratch a similar itch then maybe check out Stargate SG1.

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Alteres posted...

I thought it always meant accomplishing absolutely nothing besides attempting to be progressive.

SJW is so detached from actually being progressive.

OG Star Trek was actually progressive, and nobody had an issue with that.

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Heliogabalus posted...

Imagine thinking that Star Trek went SJW.

I don't think you understand the distinction between being progressive/tolerant and being SJW.

Ghostbusters 2016 is SJW, there is nothing substantively actually good about it, but it weaponizes "progressiveness" to demonize those who hate it on it's merits as "manchildren who hate women".

A clear distinction is SJW shit tries to be negative towards people who don't like the content, whereas real progressive stuff (like trek) tries to be positive towards positive/inclusive ideals.

FFS the lead actress of star trek discovery said some shit like "I'm proud to be the first black lead and first female lead of a trek series" not realizing trek had both like 20 years ago.

The modern people have no idea what trek is and are just being stupid. Nobody has problems with inclusive ideas, they have problems with condescending bullies who try to cover their bad writing with shallow virtue signaling.

Nobody likes bad writing and that's all modern "trek" is anyway. The Orville is the closest there is to modern trek.

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joe40001 posted...

check out Stargate SG1

Seen it as a KID, was a good show but i need something more meaty.

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I know discovery is bad, but what was wrong with Picard? I watched it and loved it, and I cant stand "Woke" culture. Could I get some examples?

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ToadallyAwesome posted...

This is one of the best takes on the new Trek series I have seen. 100% agree

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading this.

So do you all just not care about writing being non-terrible?

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LiqiudusSnake posted...

I know discovery is bad, but what was wrong with Picard? I watched it and loved it, and I cant stand "Woke" culture. Could I get some examples?

It's not "woke", the shows aren't really SJW, they are just really really really badly written.

If you want to know what's wrong with PIcard, watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwF1iri1GjQ

Put simply though, it's just really badly written.

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ColdOne666 posted...

Seen it as a KID, was a good show but i need something more meaty.

Then watch the Expanse. Or Battlestar Galactica.

DS9 is the "meaty-est" Trek. If I understand your meaning.

Modern trek is so much dumber than even the dumbest SG1 Episode. And SG1 isn't even dumb it's just "lighter".

I guess if you think like S8 of GoT is "meaty" maybe check out new "Trek". But if I understand you right, you are best served with the 2000s Battlestar Galactica or with "The Expanse"

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Picard and season 1 of Discovery are watchable, they just don't feel like Trek. Luckily Discovery got better in seasons 2 and 3, Lower Decks is great, and Brave New Worlds looks like it's going to be fun. I dunno about Prodigies or the other stuff in the works.

But Discovery, Lower Decks, and even Picard are worth watching.

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joe40001 posted...

Then watch the Expanse. Or Battlestar Galactica.

DS9 is the "meaty-est" Trek. If I understand your meaning.

Modern trek is so much dumber than even the dumbest SG1 Episode. And SG1 isn't even dumb it's just "lighter".

I guess if you think like S8 of GoT is "meaty" maybe check out new "Trek". But if I understand you right, you are best served with the 2000s Battlestar Galactica or with "The Expanse"

First 4 seasons of GoT where great and first 2 seasons of BSG where also great.

I'll have to look into The Expanse.

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ColdOne666 posted...

First 4 seasons of GoT where great and first 2 seasons of BSG where also great.

I'll have to look into The Expanse.

Yeah check out the expanse. I think it's your best bet for the kind of thing you are looking for.

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