Current Events > ''I don't see color. The solution to racism is to stop talking about it.''

(+) Yeah! (+)

I always get a kick out of this kinda stuff.

It's interesting that the magical solution to racism is the thing that conveniently doesn't require you to actually do anything.

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The solution to racism is to make everyone color-blind. And if anybody suddenly regains the ability to see in color, we "release" them, iykwim

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There is no solution to racism. You can't "fix" prejudice.

Short of brainwashing, anyway.

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How is it any different than treating people by the content of their character

B-b-but Morgan Freeman said we don't have to talk about racism! Morgan Freeman!

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KingWhiteKnight posted...

How is it any different than treating people by the content of their character

It's not.

"Color-blindness" is a totally valid approach, it's just got tons of people who try to spin it into a bad brand because it doesn't let you hate as many people.

We should want to live in a world where race is like hair color. Nobody really cares and we all recognize it doesn't matter.

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There was a racist rock.

They made it go away.

Eventually it'll be forgotten and no one will talk about it.

Pony avatar

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joe40001 posted...

It's not.

"Color-blindness" is a totally valid approach, it's just got tons of people who try to spin it into a bad brand because it doesn't let you hate as many people.

We should want to live in a world where race is like hair color. Nobody really cares and we all recognize it doesn't matter.

It's just one prong of the fork, though. Ignoring race does nothing to solve the vast, self-perpetuating wealth inequality that is the result of centuries of institutionalised racism.

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joe40001 posted...

It's not.

"Color-blindness" is a totally valid approach, it's just got tons of people who try to spin it into a bad brand because it doesn't let you hate as many people.

We should want to live in a world where race is like hair color. Nobody really cares and we all recognize it doesn't matter.

its not valid. if some people are currently disadvantaged, and others are advantaged, deciding that we'll do nothing to change that and ignore race from today will do nothing to change that.

this is racist against colorblind people

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joe40001 posted...

It's not.

"Color-blindness" is a totally valid approach, it's just got tons of people who try to spin it into a bad brand because it doesn't let you hate as many people.

We should want to live in a world where race is like hair color. Nobody really cares and we all recognize it doesn't matter.

Sounds nice, but that ain't realistic.

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joe40001 posted...

It's not.

"Color-blindness" is a totally valid approach, it's just got tons of people who try to spin it into a bad brand because it doesn't let you hate as many people.

They also see government as the solution to all societys problems. Racism, wealth inequality, climate change, etc. are just the excuses for them to implement policies that coincidentally give them all the power.


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Xavier_On_High posted...

It's just one prong of the fork, though. Ignoring race does nothing to solve the vast, self-perpetuating wealth inequality that is the result of centuries of institutionalised racism.

Correct. Fixing the present and the future are an important part though, as far as addressing the consequences of the past, I too think that should be done and likely would be best accomplished by very data driven methods.

IMO the best way to deal with racism moving forward is anti-discrimination and rigorous audits of institutions to ensure fairness.

As far as rectifying the past, that should be left up to like the nerdiest of nerds. I don't think the humanities types have really any shot of helping.

Put simply, the kind of folks who aren't comfortable enough with math to do basic economics are not the people to ask when it comes to rectifying the social/financial consequences of racism of the past.

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Fam_Fam posted...

its not valid. if some people are currently disadvantaged, and others are advantaged, deciding that we'll do nothing to change that and ignore race from today will do nothing to change that.

The problem isn't the colorblindness but the disadvantage. Making a fair society that is "colorblind" and doesn't discriminate would implicitly mean attending to legacy unfairnesses.

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Ah the typical I dont see color bullshit. All that does is ignore the issue, if you cant see the difference between a black man getting pulled over compared to a white man getting pulled over then you are a part of the problem.

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joe40001 posted...

Correct. Fixing the present and the future are an important part though, as far as addressing the consequences of the past, I too think that should be done and likely would be best accomplished by very data driven methods.

IMO the best way to deal with racism moving forward is anti-discrimination and rigorous audits of institutions to ensure fairness.

As far as rectifying the past, that should be left up to like the nerdiest of nerds. I don't think the humanities types have really any shot of helping.

Put simply, the kind of folks who aren't comfortable enough with math to do basic economics are not the people to ask when it comes to rectifying the social/financial consequences of racism of the past.

Yeah, because nobody has ever used statistics to lie before.


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Clutch posted...

They also see government as the solution to all societys problems

Lol conservatives need a new playbook

This rhetoric is straight outta the 80s lol

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Clutch posted...

Yeah, because nobody has ever used statistics to lie before.

...?

Do you think anything that can be misused by bad actors is useless?

Because it's a lot easier to lie without data than it is to lie with them.

If you roll your eyes at a data driven approach, what possible alterative would you suggest that would stand a chance of helping?

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Doom_Art posted...

Lol conservatives need a new playbook

This rhetoric is straight outta the 80s lol

The problems seem to change, but your solutions never do.

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Government was the solution to black people not being allowed to vote, sit in front of buses, swim in swimming pools, eat in certain restaurants, etc.

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joe40001 posted...

The problem isn't the colorblindness but the disadvantage. Making a fair society that is "colorblind" and doesn't discriminate would implicitly mean attending to legacy unfairnesses.

the "colourblindness" isn't real though. you were raised in a racist society. that society informs your views. pretending that that doesn't happen solves nothing.

"colourblindness" is an individualistic approach. remember: even if there were 0 racist people in the US, black people would still be significantly worse off than white people. that's part of what racism means. it cannot be fixed by ignoring it

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Snake0736 posted...

Ah the typical I dont see color bullshit. All that does is ignore the issue, if you cant see the difference between a black man getting pulled over compared to a white man getting pulled over then you are a part of the problem.

If a black person is treated unfairly by the cops, the problem is not that the person was black, but the unfairness.

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Thing about typical kolorblindness is you only see in black n white. Who's idea was it to play this as a good thing?

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joe40001 posted...

...?

Do you think anything that can be misused by bad actors is useless?

Because it's a lot easier to lie without data than it is to lie with them.

If you roll your eyes at a data driven approach, what possible alterative would you suggest that would stand a chance of helping?

Something less dystopian maybe? Who would even hold your fairness bureau accountable?


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averagejoel posted...

the "colourblindness" isn't real though. you were raised in a racist society. that society informs your views. pretending that that doesn't happen solves nothing.

"colourblindness" is an individualistic approach. remember: even if there were 0 racist people in the US, black people would still be significantly worse off than white people. that's part of what racism means. it cannot be fixed by ignoring it

Race is not the problem, racism is. And racism is the unfairness that comes from discrimination based on race. Solving unfairness is solving the problem. Meanwhile moving past a society where we treat people differently based on race is in service of that goal, not opposed to it.

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It's correct.

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CableZL posted...

Government was the solution to black people not being allowed to vote, sit in front of buses, swim in swimming pools, eat in certain restaurants, etc.

So government was the solution to itself?

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Clutch posted...

Something less dystopian maybe? Who would even hold your fairness bureau accountable?

Presumably the public and all other institutions or people who are invested in it working well.

I mean I could just as easily be like "Sure it sounds nice, but who would even hold your "Environmental Protection Agency" accountable?"

I'm not clear on what alternative you are pushing, but there is nothing dystopian about using data/science to solve problems. It's how most hard problems get solved.

The EPA is actually a good example. We can play the whole "people can manipulate statistics" game, but if we are honest the data that comes from tracking global temperatures, glacier sizes, carbon emissions, coral reefs, etc, this data is crucial in understanding and fighting climate change.

Using data may not be a good feeling hippie's idea of "helping the environment", but it's how big problems like these get dealt with.

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joe40001 posted...

Using data may not be a good feeling hippie's idea of "helping the environment", but it's how big problems like these get dealt with.

Don't let techbros near this, though.

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Clutch posted...

They also see government as the solution to all societys problems. Racism, wealth inequality, climate change, etc. are just the excuses for them to implement policies that coincidentally give them all the power.

Just like you acknowledge it is silly to think government is the solution to all problems, do you also acknowledge it is silly to say government can't be the solution to any problems?

I do think major institutions have to restore and regain trust, but when they are working well they can serve an important role. Including government.

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Clutch posted...

So government was the solution to itself?

Itself and private businesses being allowed to oppress black people with no questions asked.

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WeeWeiWiiWie posted...

Don't let techbros near this, though.

If the financial incentive structure was perfectly aligned with providing actual value in the fight against racial unfairness they maybe could help.

But, yeah, more than likely they'd see the data-science solutions to unfairness as "a new marketplace" and then "disrupt it." and fuck it up and make it worse.

Things like this need to be the same kinds of things people did when they figured out the moon landing. Sincere honest data people collaborating towards a goal they believe in.

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CableZL posted...

Itself and private businesses being allowed to oppress black people with no questions asked.

Government created the laws that allowed them to do so in the first place.

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Clutch posted...

Government created the laws that allowed them to do so in the first place.

Yes, and government fixed that.

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joe40001 posted...

If the financial incentive structure was perfectly aligned with providing actual value in the fight against racial unfairness they maybe could help.

But, yeah, more than likely they'd see the data-science solutions to unfairness as "a new marketplace" and then "disrupt it." and fuck it up and make it worse.

Things like this need to be the same kinds of things people did when they figured out the moon landing. Sincere honest data people collaborating towards a goal they believe in.

The big thing is that any type of front facing data science position is that the person needs to actually be formally trained. None of this "I majored in computer science and know how to install pytorch" bullshit that people try to pull.

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joe40001 posted...

Race is not the problem, racism is. And racism is the unfairness that comes from discrimination based on race. Solving unfairness is solving the problem. Meanwhile moving past a society where we treat people differently based on race is in service of that goal, not opposed to it.

that isn't what colourblindness is though

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joe40001 posted...

Presumably the public and all other institutions or people who are invested in it working well.

When has that ever actually happened?

I mean I could just as easily be like "Sure it sounds nice, but who would even hold your "Environmental Protection Agency" accountable?"

And?

I'm not clear on what alternative you are pushing, but there is nothing dystopian about using data/science to solve problems. It's how most hard problems get solved.

Any alternative that doesnt put power in the hands of some faceless government bureaucracy.

The EPA is actually a good example. We can play the whole "people can manipulate statistics" game, but if we are honest the data that comes from tracking global temperatures, glacier sizes, carbon emissions, coral reefs, etc, this data is crucial in understanding and fighting climate change.

Its almost as if nobody has ever been caught manipulating or misusing scientific data.


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CableZL posted...

Yes, and government fixed that.

So like I said, the government was its own solution.

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Clutch posted...

So like I said, the government was its own solution.

It doesn't seem like you have an actual point here. Government was the solution.

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CableZL posted...

It doesn't seem like you have an actual point here. Government was the solution.

Yes, to the problem it created.

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Clutch posted...

Yes, to the problem it created.

To be specific, racist people in government created the laws that created the problem. More progressive people in government created the laws that fixed the problem.

You're being purposefully obtuse at best if you need this to be spelled out.

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Clutch posted...

They also see government as the solution to all societys problems. Racism, wealth inequality, climate change, etc. are just the excuses for them to implement policies that coincidentally give them all the power.

In the context of racism, all of what power and compared to who having it?

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I find cute that the other side can't see how self serving their ways to fight racism sound. "To fight racism we have to give us easier opportubities, if not give more tangible rewards. At minimum we want to ensure we hold on to being able to blame our problems on our skin color, not something that might be just as valid, but also apply to other groups of people we don't want to help." Evwn if not in the group in question, I've rarely seen a liberal not jump at the chance to take from a "privileged" group.

Yeah, I'm sure the hatred of xolor blondness has nothing to qith now you are being trated fairly and you're still lacking. And bedore anyone xomplains, I'm disabled. I probably know more about having it harder than others in life than you do.

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CableZL posted...

To be specific, racist people in government created the laws that created the problem. More progressive people in government created the laws that fixed the problem.

You're being purposefully obtuse at best if you need this to be spelled out.

Its almost as if the real solution is to not give government the power to make shitty laws in the first place.

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Colorblindness doesn't work because of historical inequalities still felt today

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lightwarrior78 posted...

I find cute that the other side can't see how self serving their ways to fight racism sound.

Compared to serving who.

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Clutch posted...

Its almost as if the real solution is to not give government the power to make s***ty laws in the first place.

It's almost as if you think government is some nebulous entity that isn't made up of people in the first place.

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MutantJohn posted...

Colorblindness doesn't work because of historical inequalities still felt today

Pretty much this is all that needs to be said. It's quite simple.

Clutch posted...

Its almost as if the real solution is to not give government the power to make shitty laws in the first place.

So hop in your time machine and make it so shitty laws were never enacted.

Always fascinates me the people who view government as this mystical "other" that's apparently not made up of members of ourselves. Government is what happens when we work together. If government is failing, it's because we allowed it to fail, and it's on us to correct it. Through working together.

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