Current Events > After replaying DA Origins, people were joking when they said Loghain...

(+) Yeah! (+)

...did nothing wrong, right? The man is clearly a monster and nothing justified any of his actions.

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Bro the US elected a white supremacist reality TV star as their president. You think they are the best at judging characters?

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even if you think him leaving the king to die was fine he's still a really shit general since he left a huge fucking portion of the army to die too.

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Yeah, like I get the guy's argument but if that was the best plan he could come up with you don't want him in charge either.

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monkmith posted...

even if you think him leaving the king to die was fine he's still a really shit general since he left a huge fucking portion of the army to die too.

LordFarquad1312 posted...

Bro the US elected a white supremacist reality TV star as their president. You think they are the best at judging characters?

Exactly! I care nothing for who the man used to be, I care for the man as he is and I remember seeing people genuinely try to defend him. I was actually hoping I could see that perspective since it's been some time since I've played. It only reinforced my opinion.

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Loghain did everything wrong, then tried blaming it all on the Grey Wardens and tried to have them all killed.

Dude sacrificed his King, thousands of soldiers and was willing to condemn all of Ferelden and potentially the entire planet in a never ending Blight.

Screw Loghain.

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dave_is_slick posted...

...did nothing wrong, right? The man is clearly a monster and nothing justified any of his actions.

The point people usually make is that he isn't a monster. The recent history of Fereldan is that the kingdom was conquered and then fought for independence from a neighboring kingdom (the Orlesians) and it was a bad war with raping and pillaging suffered by the people of fereldan.

He hates Orlais with a passion and thinks that the king's weakness will lead to the kingdom being conquered again.

Atralis posted...

The point people usually make is that he isn't a monster. The recent history of Fereldan is that the kingdom was conquered and then fought for independence from a neighboring kingdom (the Orlesians) and it was a bad war with raping and pillaging suffered by the people of fereldan.

He hates Orlais with a passion and thinks that the king's weakness will lead to the kingdom being conquered again.

And uh, how well will it turn out if the kingdom gets trashed by Darkspawn?

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Atralis posted...

He hates Orlais with a passion and thinks that the king's weakness will lead to the kingdom being conquered again.

So instead he betrays the king at the crucial battle against an enemy that as far as anyone knows can't be reasoned with and whose sole purpose is wiping them all out.



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ScazarMeltex posted...

And uh, how well will it turn out if the kingdom gets trashed by Darkspawn?

I mean obviously he was wrong in his actions we are talking about his motivations. He catastrophically underestimated the threat the darkspawn posed.

LordFarquad1312 posted...

So instead he betrays the king at the crucial battle against an enemy that as far as anyone knows can't be reasoned with and whose sole purpose is wiping them all out.

And can only be stopped by a Grey Warden.

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Atralis posted...

and thinks that the king's weakness

But that's the thing, we aren't shown one bit of evidence for what might make him think that. By everyone else's account, Cailin (sp?) was a good king. Allying with Orlais? It's a Blight and they knew about it! An alliance out of necessity!

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Strider102 posted...

And can only be stopped by a Grey Warden.

He didn't know that at the time. The point that people make is that you actually can learn more about Loghain's motivations and character if you recruit him. He isn't some power hungry dictator. He serves like a soldier once its clear that he has lost power and he is willing to sacrifice himself to save Ferelden.

Atralis posted...

He didn't know that at the time. The point that people make is that you actually can learn more about Loghain's motivations and character if you recruit him. He isn't some power hungry dictator. He serves like a soldier once its clear that he has lost power and he is willing to sacrifice himself to save Ferelden.

It's been awhile since I played it but I'm pretty sure Loghain was close by when Duncan said only a Grey Warden could defeat the Archdemon.

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Strider102 posted...

It's been awhile since I played it but I'm pretty sure Loghain was close by when Duncan said only a Grey Warden could defeat the Archdemon.

Its made pretty clear that the Grey Warden's hide the true nature of their connection to the dark spawn. Saying "we are the only ones who can defeat the X" would probably just sound like some cocky horseshit to someone like Loghain especially considering his low opinion of the order due to them, in his view, shirking their duties during the war against the Orlesians.

Atralis posted...

Its made pretty clear that the Grey Warden's hide the true nature of their connection to the dark spawn. Saying "we are the only ones who can defeat the X" would probably just sound like some cocky horseshit to someone like Loghain especially considering his low opinion of the order due to them, in his view, shirking their duties during the war against the Orlesians.

Which is once again, his own fault.

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It's worth noting that he did actually make the smart decision at Ostagar, just not for the right reasons. If he hadn't retreated, the battle would have been even worse, because his troops would have been killed as well. The Archdemon had no intention of showing itself there at Ostagar, so nothing the army or the Wardens could have done would have ended the blight.

People say he left Cailan to die, but Cailan was already dead by the time the beacon was lit, since he was a moron and did moron things during the battle.

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Atralis posted...

I mean obviously he was wrong in his actions we are talking about his motivations. He catastrophically underestimated the threat the darkspawn posed.

true, but he was fully willing to throw thousands of people to their deaths against them; begs the question what the hell was he gonna do with a gutted army when his hated foe the Orlesians came to stomp him?

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UnholyMudcrab posted...

It's worth noting that he did actually make the smart decision at Ostagar, just not for the right reasons.

"He did the right thing because he did the only logical move after betraying his king and only in hindsight because there was no information to prove things were going that way at the time".

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There's a lot of people on the internet who, whenever given a villain with actual sensible motivations and character development, immediately latch onto "well what they did was right in context, they couldn't have turned out any other way, it's not their fault!". That's how we end up with "thanos was right", "the empire did nothing wrong" etc.

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LordFarquad1312 posted...

"He did the right thing because he did the only logical move after betraying his king and only in hindsight because there was no information to prove things were going that way at the time".

Loghain is a terrible strategist, which we can see from his moves after the battle and his paranoia toward the Orlesians, but he's certainly not a terrible tactician. For whatever reason, the Wardens were late in lighting the signal beacon, and now the army is overwhelmed, the king will be dead before you can get to him, and darkspawn are still pouring in from the woods. What does committing yourself to the battle at this point accomplish except adding yourself and your troops to the casualty count?

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