Board 8 > Rate the VG Story Day 119: Final Fantasy VIII

Topic List	Page List: 1, 2
plasmabeam 10/03/21 10:26:57 PM #51:	Leonhart4 posted... Yes, Ultimecia provides the framing within which the story takes place, but that conflict isn't why anyone cares about the game. It is not the primary conflict that drives the story forward or that instigates Squall's character development. Ultimecia only provides the context for it to happen. As a character, she doesn't matter to Squall or the game. Whoa now. I care about the Edea assassination plot, chasing Edea down on Disc 2, and unraveling the mystery of Ultimecia beyond that. Those are some of my favorite parts of the game. As a character, Ultimecia is an off-screen mastermind who turns Squall's world upside-down by possessing Edea and causing war and chaos between the Gardens. In that case she and her actions do matter to Squall and the game. The problem with Ultimecia is she simply doesn't have enough depth. Whether you consider FF8 unfinished or rushed, it sucks that we never got to properly learn about Ultimecia's motivation and backstory. --- ~Jacksonville Jaguars~ <cite>plasmabeam posted [p:958668149] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>Leonhart4 posted... </cite> <quote>Yes, Ultimecia provides the framing within which the story takes place, but that conflict isn't why anyone cares about the game. It is not the primary conflict that drives the story forward or that instigates Squall's character development. Ultimecia only provides the context for it to happen. As a character, she doesn't matter to Squall or the game.</quote> Whoa now. I care about the Edea assassination plot, chasing Edea down on Disc 2, and unraveling the mystery of Ultimecia beyond that. Those are some of my favorite parts of the game. As a character, Ultimecia is an off-screen mastermind who turns Squall's world upside-down by possessing Edea and causing war and chaos between the Gardens. In that case she and her actions do matter to Squall and the game. The problem with Ultimecia is she simply doesn't have enough depth. Whether you consider FF8 unfinished or rushed, it sucks that we never got to properly learn about Ultimecia's motivation and backstory. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mac Arrowny 10/03/21 10:32:11 PM #52:	8.9 Ellone's such a great character. plasmabeam posted... However, you might say there is more emphasis on Squall's internal struggle than on the sorceress plot, and I would agree with you there. ...that's what it means to be primary. Having the most emphasis. Maybe English isn't your native language so you're just using words incorrectly? --- All the stars in the sky are waiting for you. <cite>Mac Arrowny posted [p:958668290] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>8.9 Ellone's such a great character. plasmabeam posted...</cite> <quote> However, you might say there is more emphasis on Squall's internal struggle than on the sorceress plot, and I would agree with you there.</quote> ...that's what it means to be primary. Having the most emphasis. Maybe English isn't your native language so you're just using words incorrectly?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
plasmabeam 10/03/21 10:32:36 PM #53:	Leonhart4 posted... Squall's growth is a constant focus throughout the game. You aren't even aware Ultimecia exists for half the game, although she is around. There are plenty of Whodunit stories where the killer isn't revealed until late in the story. That doesn't diminish the killer's impact on the plot, the setting, and the main characters. If the internal conflict is more emphasized, that means it's the primary conflict. It's the story the game wants to tell more than any other. Ultimecia is a necessary evil because FFVIII is an RPG and not a visual novel. I disagree because of the reasons I already mentioned with internal and external conflict being two sides of the same coin. Squall's growth as human being is tied to his growth as a solider. Anyway, I gotta get to bed. Nice discussing this with you, Leon! --- ~Jacksonville Jaguars~ <cite>plasmabeam posted [p:958668300] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>Leonhart4 posted... </cite> <quote>Squall's growth is a constant focus throughout the game. You aren't even aware Ultimecia exists for half the game, although she is around. </quote> There are plenty of Whodunit stories where the killer isn't revealed until late in the story. That doesn't diminish the killer's impact on the plot, the setting, and the main characters. <quote>If the internal conflict is more emphasized, that means it's the primary conflict. It's the story the game wants to tell more than any other. Ultimecia is a necessary evil because FFVIII is an RPG and not a visual novel.</quote> I disagree because of the reasons I already mentioned with internal and external conflict being two sides of the same coin. Squall's growth as human being is tied to his growth as a solider. Anyway, I gotta get to bed. Nice discussing this with you, Leon! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Leonhart4 10/03/21 10:36:09 PM #54:	But it doesn't matter to Squall who she is. She could be anyone. And those are great moments, but they use them as vehicles for character development. In the middle of both of those moments, you have a major section with Squall dealing with his feelings for Rinoa and being forced to confront them because of the danger she's in. Squall can't deal with Ultimecia until he deals with that first. It's given priority over his mission by the game and the other characters. --- https://imgur.com/WqDcNNq https://imgur.com/89Z5jrB <cite>Leonhart4 posted [p:958668377] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>But it doesn't matter to Squall who she is. She could be anyone. And those are great moments, but they use them as vehicles for character development. In the middle of both of those moments, you have a major section with Squall dealing with his feelings for Rinoa and being forced to confront them because of the danger she's in. Squall can't deal with Ultimecia until he deals with that first. It's given priority over his mission by the game and the other characters. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
plasmabeam 10/03/21 10:36:33 PM #55:	Mac Arrowny posted... ...that's what it means to be primary. Having the most emphasis. Maybe English isn't your native language so you're just using words incorrectly? The point I'm trying to make is conflict is a two-sided coin. --- ~Jacksonville Jaguars~ <cite>plasmabeam posted [p:958668386] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>Mac Arrowny posted... </cite> <quote>...that's what it means to be primary. Having the most emphasis. Maybe English isn't your native language so you're just using words incorrectly?</quote> The point I'm trying to make is conflict is a two-sided coin. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MooglesRUs 10/03/21 10:38:49 PM #56:	Im just gonna say, I know its been debunked, I know its impossible and makes no sense, but VIII would be a BETTER game if in fact Rinoa=Ultimecia was true. As stupid as it is, it would put so much into the story that simply isnt there without it, because the game was rushed, I dont really care what Leon says here, it was made concurrently with Tactics, IX AND X (neither of which were supposed to be mainline FF, hence why they were being designed already). Anyone who think that didnt take mass resources from, and also expedite how quick they had to get VIII out isnt really paying attention. Xenogears gets a lot of crap for the game dying halfway through for what it was trying to do, but VIII is so much worse for it. Squall being dead would also improve the game significantly, because the sociopath from the end of disk 2 and whatever in the world he is at the start of disk 3 are not the same person. The fact that 2 debunked and completely illogical theories that cant possibly work would give the game more depth says all you need to say about it. I think VIII is a better first half game than every game I have ever played except Twilight Princess. And sadly, like TP, it makes the same mistakes the second half of losing its own way. Squall goes from threatening to beat Rinoa to walking across the ocean with her on is back in legit minutes of game time, and hours of in world time. There is no plot change that even reasonably would get you to that. <cite>MooglesRUs posted [p:958668433] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>Im just gonna say, I know its been debunked, I know its impossible and makes no sense, but VIII would be a BETTER game if in fact Rinoa=Ultimecia was true. As stupid as it is, it would put so much into the story that simply isnt there without it, because the game was rushed, I dont really care what Leon says here, it was made concurrently with Tactics, IX AND X (neither of which were supposed to be mainline FF, hence why they were being designed already). Anyone who think that didnt take mass resources from, and also expedite how quick they had to get VIII out isnt really paying attention. Xenogears gets a lot of crap for the game dying halfway through for what it was trying to do, but VIII is so much worse for it. Squall being dead would also improve the game significantly, because the sociopath from the end of disk 2 and whatever in the world he is at the start of disk 3 are not the same person. The fact that 2 debunked and completely illogical theories that cant possibly work would give the game more depth says all you need to say about it. I think VIII is a better first half game than every game I have ever played except Twilight Princess. And sadly, like TP, it makes the same mistakes the second half of losing its own way. Squall goes from threatening to beat Rinoa to walking across the ocean with her on is back in legit minutes of game time, and hours of in world time. There is no plot change that even reasonably would get you to that. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Leonhart4 10/03/21 10:40:40 PM #57:	plasmabeam posted... There are plenty of Whodunit stories where the killer isn't revealed until late in the story. That doesn't diminish the killer's impact on the plot, the setting, and the main characters. I mean, sure, but that's different. The killer is often someone closely connected to the important characters. Ultimecia isn't connected to any of them. She's a looming threat from the future, and that's the main purpose she serves. Who she is as a person does not matter to the story, and that was done on purpose. It's interesting to note that soon after it's revealed Edea matters to them, she stops being a threat. I disagree because of the reasons I already mentioned with internal and external conflict being two sides of the same coin. Squall's growth as human being is tied to his growth as a solider. Squall becomes a better soldier and a leader because he becomes a better person, not the other way around. That's the internal driving the external. And once again, for about half of Disc 3, Squall completely abandons being a soldier and a leader. It's not the primary driving force. --- https://imgur.com/WqDcNNq https://imgur.com/89Z5jrB <cite>Leonhart4 posted [p:958668491] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>plasmabeam posted... </cite> <quote>There are plenty of Whodunit stories where the killer isn't revealed until late in the story. That doesn't diminish the killer's impact on the plot, the setting, and the main characters.</quote> I mean, sure, but that's different. The killer is often someone closely connected to the important characters. Ultimecia isn't connected to any of them. She's a looming threat from the future, and that's the main purpose she serves. Who she is as a person does not matter to the story, and that was done on purpose. It's interesting to note that soon after it's revealed Edea matters to them, she stops being a threat. <quote>I disagree because of the reasons I already mentioned with internal and external conflict being two sides of the same coin. Squall's growth as human being is tied to his growth as a solider.</quote> Squall becomes a better soldier and a leader because he becomes a better person, not the other way around. That's the internal driving the external. And once again, for about half of Disc 3, Squall completely abandons being a soldier and a leader. It's not the primary driving force. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kenri 10/03/21 10:48:50 PM #58:	7.5 Pretty solid. I like Squall and Rinoa, the science-fantasy setting, and even the weird time compression stuff at the end. I just wish the rest of the party got more development (Quistis is my fave but she does literally nothing). The plot also felt kind of rushed, like new things kept happening without letting the previous thing have room to breathe. But overall I liked it more than I thought I would. --- Congrats to BKSheikah, who knows more about years than anyone else. <cite>Kenri posted [p:958668701] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>7.5 Pretty solid. I like Squall and Rinoa, the science-fantasy setting, and even the weird time compression stuff at the end. I just wish the rest of the party got more development (Quistis is my fave but she does literally nothing). The plot also felt kind of rushed, like new things kept happening without letting the previous thing have room to breathe. But overall I liked it more than I thought I would. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MooglesRUs 10/03/21 10:49:26 PM #59:	Leonhart4 posted... I mean, sure, but that's different. The killer is often someone closely connected to the important characters. Ultimecia isn't connected to any of them. She's a looming threat from the future, and that's the main purpose she serves. Who she is as a person does not matter to the story, and that was done on purpose. Squall becomes a better soldier and a leader because he becomes a better person, not the other way around. That's the internal driving the external. Squall is a better Soldier and leader before he becomes a better person. hell, Id actually go farther. I dont think he ever improves as a Soldier, just a leader. When in the whole game does he show a single ounce of weakness as a Soldier? Getting iced by Ultimecia as Edea after fighting Seifer and her already. He is shown as a supreme soldier in Timber, his classes, the cutscene at the start of the game where even after getting cheap shotted he still gets Seifer, Galbadia capital, the train, every last thing that happens from the end of disk 1 till the missiles nearly hit Garden, the occupation of Balamb, and the garden fights. Its after that he becomes a better person. <cite>MooglesRUs posted [p:958668714] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>Leonhart4 posted... </cite> <quote>I mean, sure, but that's different. The killer is often someone closely connected to the important characters. Ultimecia isn't connected to any of them. She's a looming threat from the future, and that's the main purpose she serves. Who she is as a person does not matter to the story, and that was done on purpose. Squall becomes a better soldier and a leader because he becomes a better person, not the other way around. That's the internal driving the external.</quote> Squall is a better Soldier and leader before he becomes a better person. hell, Id actually go farther. I dont think he ever improves as a Soldier, just a leader. When in the whole game does he show a single ounce of weakness as a Soldier? Getting iced by Ultimecia as Edea after fighting Seifer and her already. He is shown as a supreme soldier in Timber, his classes, the cutscene at the start of the game where even after getting cheap shotted he still gets Seifer, Galbadia capital, the train, every last thing that happens from the end of disk 1 till the missiles nearly hit Garden, the occupation of Balamb, and the garden fights. Its after that he becomes a better person. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Leonhart4 10/03/21 10:53:04 PM #60:	He becomes a better soldier in the sense that he moves beyond just being the guy who follows orders and doesn't ask questions. --- https://imgur.com/WqDcNNq https://imgur.com/89Z5jrB <cite>Leonhart4 posted [p:958668804] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>He becomes a better soldier in the sense that he moves beyond just being the guy who follows orders and doesn't ask questions. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Axl_Rose_85 10/03/21 10:57:14 PM #61:	10 The story and emotional journey of the best video game character in my 25+ years of gaming. I do admit that FFVIII is pretty much the Squall show which is also exactly why I love the narrative and the structure of the storyline so much. The lore of Final Fantasy VIII is also very underrated. It has one of most compelling backstories and histories and a lot of the so called plot holes are foreshadowed throughout the game. <cite>Axl_Rose_85 posted [p:958668906] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>10 The story and emotional journey of the best video game character in my 25+ years of gaming. I do admit that FFVIII is pretty much the Squall show which is also exactly why I love the narrative and the structure of the storyline so much. The lore of Final Fantasy VIII is also very underrated. It has one of most compelling backstories and histories and a lot of the so called plot holes are foreshadowed throughout the game. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MooglesRUs 10/03/21 10:58:35 PM #62:	Leonhart4 posted... He becomes a better soldier in the sense that he moves beyond just being the guy who follows orders and doesn't ask questions. But when does he do that? The first time I can honestly think of him doing this is the speech to the Garden when he takes over, but at that point he is in charge. I can not think of him disobeying a single order till that time. (Unless you count Norg, but those would be when he had conflicting orders). <cite>MooglesRUs posted [p:958668954] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>Leonhart4 posted... </cite> <quote>He becomes a better soldier in the sense that he moves beyond just being the guy who follows orders and doesn't ask questions.</quote> But when does he do that? The first time I can honestly think of him doing this is the speech to the Garden when he takes over, but at that point he is in charge. I can not think of him disobeying a single order till that time. (Unless you count Norg, but those would be when he had conflicting orders). </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LeonhartFour 10/03/21 11:02:37 PM #63:	I mean, he never questioned a single thing up until NORG, even the sorceress assassination mission, which was sketchy as heck, so that was a pretty important moment for him. He was willing to follow conflicting orders simply because they came from a superior before then, too. He follows Seifer without question during the exam when he tells them to leave the designated area. --- http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/080/145/638.png https://imgur.com/WqDcNNq <cite>LeonhartFour posted [p:958669087] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>I mean, he never questioned a single thing up until NORG, even the sorceress assassination mission, which was sketchy as heck, so that was a pretty important moment for him. He was willing to follow conflicting orders simply because they came from a superior before then, too. He follows Seifer without question during the exam when he tells them to leave the designated area. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MooglesRUs 10/03/21 11:09:07 PM #64:	LeonhartFour posted... I mean, he never questioned a single thing up until NORG, even the sorceress assassination mission, which was sketchy as heck, so that was a pretty important moment for him. He was willing to follow conflicting orders simply because they came from a superior before then, too. He follows Seifer without question during the exam when he tells them to leave the designated area. Why do you think the Assassination was sketchy? Just curious. It came from 2 different Gardens and a Gov, and she does pretty much declare herself Queen of the World and commit a hostile takeover/coup during her announcement as the Presidents new military advisor. <cite>MooglesRUs posted [p:958669267] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>LeonhartFour posted... </cite> <quote>I mean, he never questioned a single thing up until NORG, even the sorceress assassination mission, which was sketchy as heck, so that was a pretty important moment for him. He was willing to follow conflicting orders simply because they came from a superior before then, too. He follows Seifer without question during the exam when he tells them to leave the designated area.</quote> Why do you think the Assassination was sketchy? Just curious. It came from 2 different Gardens and a Gov, and she does pretty much declare herself Queen of the World and commit a hostile takeover/coup during her announcement as the Presidents new military advisor. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Axl_Rose_85 10/03/21 11:12:33 PM #65:	Also while I will admit Ultimecia isn't the most well developed and compelling villain, she is way way better developed than the Chaoses, the Clouds of Darknesses, the Zeromuses and the Necrons of the series. So I don't see why fans of the series all of a sudden had a problem with her. She at least made sense as the final boss of the game. <cite>Axl_Rose_85 posted [p:958669373] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>Also while I will admit Ultimecia isn't the most well developed and compelling villain, she is way way better developed than the Chaoses, the Clouds of Darknesses, the Zeromuses and the Necrons of the series. So I don't see why fans of the series all of a sudden had a problem with her. She at least made sense as the final boss of the game. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MooglesRUs 10/03/21 11:14:53 PM #66:	Axl_Rose_85 posted... Also while I will admit Ultimecia isn't the most well developed and compelling villain, she is way way better developed than the Chaoses, the Clouds of Darknesses, the Zeromuses and the Necrons of the series. So I don't see why fans of the series all of a sudden had a problem with her. She at least made sense as the final boss of the game. WHAT??? <cite>MooglesRUs posted [p:958669441] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>Axl_Rose_85 posted... </cite> <quote>Also while I will admit Ultimecia isn't the most well developed and compelling villain, she is way way better developed than the Chaoses, the Clouds of Darknesses, the Zeromuses and the Necrons of the series. So I don't see why fans of the series all of a sudden had a problem with her. She at least made sense as the final boss of the game.</quote> WHAT??? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Axl_Rose_85 10/03/21 11:17:35 PM #67:	I'll wait while you explain Garland's depth of personality and motivation ~~It's to create Chaos as Chaos~~ <cite>Axl_Rose_85 posted [p:958669514] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>I'll wait while you explain Garland's depth of personality and motivation It's to create Chaos as Chaos </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MooglesRUs 10/03/21 11:20:34 PM #68:	Axl_Rose_85 posted... I'll wait while you explain Garland's depth of personality and motivation ~~It's to create Chaos as Chaos~~ I thought you were confused as to what it was. Cause you said background. And my point was Chaos clearly didnt come out of nowhere. Thats my bad on misunderstanding what you were saying. <cite>MooglesRUs posted [p:958669589] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>Axl_Rose_85 posted... </cite> <quote>I'll wait while you explain Garland's depth of personality and motivation It's to create Chaos as Chaos</quote> I thought you were confused as to what it was. Cause you said background. And my point was Chaos clearly didnt come out of nowhere. Thats my bad on misunderstanding what you were saying. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Axl_Rose_85 10/03/21 11:24:49 PM #69:	Honestly if I had to rank Ultimecia as the final boss in series she wouldn't even be middle tier she might be in the tier right above it and below the top tier. Nowhere bottom tier like the series' fanbase makes her out to be. I'll admit Adel would have been a more compelling final boss but we got what we got. <cite>Axl_Rose_85 posted [p:958669707] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>Honestly if I had to rank Ultimecia as the final boss in series she wouldn't even be middle tier she might be in the tier right above it and below the top tier. Nowhere bottom tier like the series' fanbase makes her out to be. I'll admit Adel would have been a more compelling final boss but we got what we got. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LeonhartFour 10/03/21 11:24:50 PM #70:	MooglesRUs posted... Why do you think the Assassination was sketchy? Just curious. It came from 2 different Gardens and a Gov, and she does pretty much declare herself Queen of the World and commit a hostile takeover/coup during her announcement as the Presidents new military advisor. I mean, they entrusted that mission to a bunch of rookies, including a sniper who choked when the moment came. That's not the type of mission a group like them should be handling. Should've been a major red flag. --- http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/080/145/638.png https://imgur.com/WqDcNNq <cite>LeonhartFour posted [p:958669708] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>MooglesRUs posted... </cite> <quote>Why do you think the Assassination was sketchy? Just curious. It came from 2 different Gardens and a Gov, and she does pretty much declare herself Queen of the World and commit a hostile takeover/coup during her announcement as the Presidents new military advisor.</quote> I mean, they entrusted that mission to a bunch of rookies, including a sniper who choked when the moment came. That's not the type of mission a group like them should be handling. Should've been a major red flag. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Axl_Rose_85 10/03/21 11:27:22 PM #71:	LeonhartFour posted... I mean, they entrusted that mission to a bunch of rookies, including a sniper who choked when the moment came. That's not the type of mission a group like them should be handling. Should've been a major red flag. Squall calming Irvine down and getting him to take the shot after he gets stage fright is low key one of the best moments in a video game. <cite>Axl_Rose_85 posted [p:958669762] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>LeonhartFour posted... </cite> <quote>I mean, they entrusted that mission to a bunch of rookies, including a sniper who choked when the moment came. That's not the type of mission a group like them should be handling. Should've been a major red flag.</quote> Squall calming Irvine down and getting him to take the shot after he gets stage fright is low key one of the best moments in a video game. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MooglesRUs 10/03/21 11:41:06 PM #72:	Axl_Rose_85 posted... Honestly if I had to rank Ultimecia as the final boss in series she wouldn't even be middle tier she might be in the tier right above it and below the top tier. Nowhere bottom tier like the series' fanbase makes her out to be. I'll admit Adel would have been a more compelling final boss but we got what we got. Absolute no way. Half the final bosses are deeply deeply personal encounters, Emperor, ExDeath, Kefka, Sephiroth, Braskas Final Aeon, Ardyn, 1 more is personal but its all behind really weird political drama that weakens the link on a micro level (Vayne) and 2 more (Chaos and Orphan) may not have a directly personal tie to the characters (although Barthandalus does and hes clearly part of Orphan at the end) but have been built to as the end for their internal desires the entire game. Ulti is probably higher than CoD, Necron, Zeromus in that regard, but man is that it. Unless you mean the actual fight. In which case, yeah, shes pretty good. <cite>MooglesRUs posted [p:958670160] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>Axl_Rose_85 posted... </cite> <quote>Honestly if I had to rank Ultimecia as the final boss in series she wouldn't even be middle tier she might be in the tier right above it and below the top tier. Nowhere bottom tier like the series' fanbase makes her out to be. I'll admit Adel would have been a more compelling final boss but we got what we got.</quote> Absolute no way. Half the final bosses are deeply deeply personal encounters, Emperor, ExDeath, Kefka, Sephiroth, Braskas Final Aeon, Ardyn, 1 more is personal but its all behind really weird political drama that weakens the link on a micro level (Vayne) and 2 more (Chaos and Orphan) may not have a directly personal tie to the characters (although Barthandalus does and hes clearly part of Orphan at the end) but have been built to as the end for their internal desires the entire game. Ulti is probably higher than CoD, Necron, Zeromus in that regard, but man is that it. Unless you mean the actual fight. In which case, yeah, shes pretty good. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pyresword 10/03/21 11:48:58 PM #73:	I don't know if we're talking about villains or about final bosses, but just in case it's the former: Necron is not the main villain of FF9 or really even a villain at all and trying to suggest otherwise is extremely misleading. I'm not really trying to defend Necron's existence to be clear--I'd rather the game just ended with the fight before Necron. I'm saying that Necron is almost irrelevant to the story of the game entirely. --- I didn't do guru this year but azuarc can be in my sig anyways. <cite>pyresword posted [p:958670340] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>I don't know if we're talking about villains or about final bosses, but just in case it's the former: Necron is not the main villain of FF9 or really even a villain at all and trying to suggest otherwise is extremely misleading. I'm not really trying to defend Necron's existence to be clear--I'd rather the game just ended with the fight before Necron. I'm saying that Necron is almost irrelevant to the story of the game entirely.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LeonhartFour 10/04/21 12:07:49 AM #74:	the problem is MWC genuinely believes Necron is the Iifa Tree even though it's not so you can't convince him Necron is irrelevant to the plot --- http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/080/145/638.png https://imgur.com/WqDcNNq <cite>LeonhartFour posted [p:958670745] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>the problem is MWC genuinely believes Necron is the Iifa Tree even though it's not so you can't convince him Necron is irrelevant to the plot </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MooglesRUs 10/04/21 12:15:29 AM #75:	LeonhartFour posted... the problem is MWC genuinely believes Necron is the Iifa Tree even though it's not so you can't convince him Necron is irrelevant to the plot I mean, youre right. But I had Necron bottom 4 a minute ago so I wasnt factoring that it for what he spoke on. <cite>MooglesRUs posted [p:958670896] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>LeonhartFour posted... </cite> <quote>the problem is MWC genuinely believes Necron is the Iifa Tree even though it's not so you can't convince him Necron is irrelevant to the plot</quote> I mean, youre right. But I had Necron bottom 4 a minute ago so I wasnt factoring that it for what he spoke on. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Axl_Rose_85 10/04/21 12:20:56 AM #76:	MooglesRUs posted... Ulti is probably higher than CoD, Necron, Zeromus in that regard, but man is that it. Yu Yevon, Vayne the blackhole of charisma, Barthandelus, Ardyn the tryhard. <cite>Axl_Rose_85 posted [p:958670981] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>MooglesRUs posted... </cite> <quote>Ulti is probably higher than CoD, Necron, Zeromus in that regard, but man is that it.</quote> Yu Yevon, Vayne the blackhole of charisma, Barthandelus, Ardyn the tryhard. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MooglesRUs 10/04/21 12:27:16 AM #77:	Axl_Rose_85 posted... Yu Yevon, Vayne the blackhole of charisma, Barthandelus, Ardyn the tryhard. BFA is the real final boss. Yu Yevon is like Sephiroth in Clouds mind. Whehter Vayne was a black hole of charisma or not, doesnt remotely change he actually meant something to the characters, unlike Ulti. I cant imagine what you have against Barthandalus, and uh, Ardyn is the most fleshed out villain in the series and its probably not even close. We know every last bit of life and motivation for Ardyn. <cite>MooglesRUs posted [p:958671082] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>Axl_Rose_85 posted... </cite> <quote>Yu Yevon, Vayne the blackhole of charisma, Barthandelus, Ardyn the tryhard.</quote> BFA is the real final boss. Yu Yevon is like Sephiroth in Clouds mind. Whehter Vayne was a black hole of charisma or not, doesnt remotely change he actually meant something to the characters, unlike Ulti. I cant imagine what you have against Barthandalus, and uh, Ardyn is the most fleshed out villain in the series and its probably not even close. We know every last bit of life and motivation for Ardyn. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Cavedweller2000 10/04/21 2:56:51 AM #78:	The only gripe I have about the game is the multiple choice responses that pop up now and then. You can be an absolute dick to Rinoa through these which makes Squall's sudden change of heart in disc 3 really jarring --- Well done to azuarc for finishing 67 places above me in the 2020 GOTD Guru Contest! <cite>Cavedweller2000 posted [p:958673175] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>The only gripe I have about the game is the multiple choice responses that pop up now and then. You can be an absolute dick to Rinoa through these which makes Squall's sudden change of heart in disc 3 really jarring </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zylothewolf 10/04/21 4:12:08 AM #79:	1/10 Hey guys we all grew up together and evil sorcerer from the future is the real villain. --- Ngamer64: Zylo, you're making less sense every day. Azuarc >Me <cite>Zylothewolf posted [p:958673899] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>1/10 Hey guys we all grew up together and evil sorcerer from the future is the real villain. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
linkhatesganon 10/04/21 5:17:41 AM #80:	7.5 --- All hail to azuarc, 2020 Guru and cure against COVID-19 http://letterboxd.com/jesusoni; http://www.backloggery.com/linkhatesganon <cite>linkhatesganon posted [p:958674545] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>7.5 </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Nanis23 10/04/21 7:22:25 AM #81:	I don't remember the story well enough so I don't believe I can give it a ranking and it would be fair, but I hated it I tried playing it 4 times. Each time stopped in another place. The furthest I got was the moon Can't never get the gameplay and people tell me it's my fault for being dumb Regardless, we are talking about the story Didn't like any of the characters besides Selphie. A few months ago Steiner told me that he hated Squall a few years ago but learned to love him after he grew up. Maybe I need to give it another chance. But plot twists are dumb. Memory loss is dumb. "Fake main villain" trope is dumb --- wololo <cite>Nanis23 posted [p:958675808] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>I don't remember the story well enough so I don't believe I can give it a ranking and it would be fair, but I hated it I tried playing it 4 times. Each time stopped in another place. The furthest I got was the moon Can't never get the gameplay and people tell me it's my fault for being dumb Regardless, we are talking about the story Didn't like any of the characters besides Selphie. A few months ago Steiner told me that he hated Squall a few years ago but learned to love him after he grew up. Maybe I need to give it another chance. But plot twists are dumb. Memory loss is dumb. "Fake main villain" trope is dumb </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ctesjbuvf 10/04/21 11:38:59 AM #82:	9 --- Guinness Book of World Records is the name of the diary that belongs to azuarc, the winner of the Game of the Decade II guru contest. <cite>ctesjbuvf posted [p:958681102] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>9 </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SeabassDebeste 10/04/21 12:06:35 PM #83:	you can call ultimecia a "necessary evil" but the game is told from a JRPG perspective where you spend a lot of time building up to fighting her, and actually fighting her is the final gameplay sequence - so i don't really think you can get a pass for making her a complete zero simply because squall doesn't care. the game obviously cares, and the player has to care as well because of her role in the JRPG plot. that said i wasn't too bothered by ultimecia in this plot --- yet all azuarc of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness <cite>SeabassDebeste posted [p:958681853] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>you can call ultimecia a "necessary evil" but the game is told from a JRPG perspective where you spend a lot of time building up to fighting her, and actually fighting her is the final gameplay sequence - so i don't really think you can get a pass for making her a complete zero simply because squall doesn't care. the game obviously cares, and the player has to care as well because of her role in the JRPG plot. that said i wasn't too bothered by ultimecia in this plot</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MooglesRUs 10/04/21 12:10:08 PM #84:	Nanis23 posted... I don't remember the story well enough so I don't believe I can give it a ranking and it would be fair, but I hated it I tried playing it 4 times. Each time stopped in another place. The furthest I got was the moon Can't never get the gameplay and people tell me it's my fault for being dumb Regardless, we are talking about the story Didn't like any of the characters besides Selphie. A few months ago Steiner told me that he hated Squall a few years ago but learned to love him after he grew up. Maybe I need to give it another chance. But plot twists are dumb. Memory loss is dumb. "Fake main villain" trope is dumb The Moon is really really far. Like 2 dungeons left far. <cite>MooglesRUs posted [p:958681951] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>Nanis23 posted... </cite> <quote>I don't remember the story well enough so I don't believe I can give it a ranking and it would be fair, but I hated it I tried playing it 4 times. Each time stopped in another place. The furthest I got was the moon Can't never get the gameplay and people tell me it's my fault for being dumb Regardless, we are talking about the story Didn't like any of the characters besides Selphie. A few months ago Steiner told me that he hated Squall a few years ago but learned to love him after he grew up. Maybe I need to give it another chance. But plot twists are dumb. Memory loss is dumb. "Fake main villain" trope is dumb</quote> The Moon is really really far. Like 2 dungeons left far. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FFDragon 10/04/21 12:24:04 PM #85:	Disc 4 is basically just the final dungeon --- If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person? #theresafreakingghostafterus <cite>FFDragon posted [p:958682312] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>Disc 4 is basically just the final dungeon </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lopen 10/04/21 12:25:28 PM #86:	I never had a problem with Ultimecia. She's tangentially related enough to the stuff you're doing that I'd put her above the Zeromuses and Necrons of the world-- also her design and final boss battle are ace. That being said 3/10 Hits some high notes in Disc 1. Disc 2's arc is a mess and the rest of the game is spent developing a character in a way I don't particularly like or agree with. This game is a master class in why being able to pick dialogue choices and them not mattering can be a very bad thing. The romance development isn't too bad if you pick the nicer options every time (which still have sufficiently enough Squall bite that they kinda flow right), BUT the problem lies in that I can make Squall a total dick to Rinoa the whole game and then Disc 3 is totally jarring-- like that moon scene where they're hugging on a chair is probably the most venomous reaction I've ever had to a video game scene ever. Squall is Dead theory makes the plot a solid 8 were it more plainly shown, but I can't actually give it credit on that. --- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! <cite>Lopen posted [p:958682349] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>I never had a problem with Ultimecia. She's tangentially related enough to the stuff you're doing that I'd put her above the Zeromuses and Necrons of the world-- also her design and final boss battle are ace. That being said 3/10 Hits some high notes in Disc 1. Disc 2's arc is a mess and the rest of the game is spent developing a character in a way I don't particularly like or agree with. This game is a master class in why being able to pick dialogue choices and them not mattering can be a very bad thing. The romance development isn't too bad if you pick the nicer options every time (which still have sufficiently enough Squall bite that they kinda flow right), BUT the problem lies in that I can make Squall a total dick to Rinoa the whole game and then Disc 3 is totally jarring-- like that moon scene where they're hugging on a chair is probably the most venomous reaction I've ever had to a video game scene ever. Squall is Dead theory makes the plot a solid 8 were it more plainly shown, but I can't actually give it credit on that. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
azuarc 10/04/21 12:45:37 PM #87:	4/10 Game is enjoyable for other reasons, but if you're expecting a cohesive story, you're going to dream you were an idiot. --- Only the exceptions can be exceptional. <cite>azuarc posted [p:958682931] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>4/10 Game is enjoyable for other reasons, but if you're expecting a cohesive story, you're going to dream you were an idiot. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
andylt 10/04/21 1:02:27 PM #88:	As always, my answer to the Ultimecia problem would be to merge her and Adel into the same character. There's plenty of setup for Adel from the very beginning, it works thematically, there would be no 'she came out of nowhere!' talk, I don't know why they wasted Adel like they did. Not sure how to rate this, I love this game but there's a lot of nostalgia there and it's been a while since I played tbh. Squall+Rinoa are great and there's so many pieces of the story that I really love, but it can be clunky and doesn't always follow through on its terrific setups very well. And the supporting cast, though I do like them, are completely wasted in the back half of the game. FFDragon posted... Escape into your own fantasies! I shall continue to dance for your world of illusions! I shall dance for eternity as the witch who brings you dread! You and I. Together, we shall create the final fantasy. Within are life and death and sweet dreams. The witch travels toward the eternal illusion! The witch and Galbadia on to eternity!] I have waited for this day to come. And also feared this day would come. Is today a joyous day? Or an odious day? Wow I've never seen this before, I love it! I always really liked her speech but this is even better. --- Slowly becoming a Final Fantasy aficionado. <cite>andylt posted [p:958683441] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>As always, my answer to the Ultimecia problem would be to merge her and Adel into the same character. There's plenty of setup for Adel from the very beginning, it works thematically, there would be no 'she came out of nowhere!' talk, I don't know why they wasted Adel like they did. Not sure how to rate this, I love this game but there's a lot of nostalgia there and it's been a while since I played tbh. Squall+Rinoa are great and there's so many pieces of the story that I really love, but it can be clunky and doesn't always follow through on its terrific setups very well. And the supporting cast, though I do like them, are completely wasted in the back half of the game. FFDragon posted... </cite> <quote>Escape into your own fantasies! I shall continue to dance for your world of illusions! I shall dance for eternity as the witch who brings you dread! You and I. Together, we shall create the final fantasy. Within are life and death and sweet dreams. The witch travels toward the eternal illusion! The witch and Galbadia on to eternity!] I have waited for this day to come. And also feared this day would come. Is today a joyous day? Or an odious day?</quote>Wow I've never seen this before, I love it! I always really liked her speech but this is even better. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Leonhart4 10/04/21 1:37:43 PM #89:	SeabassDebeste posted... you can call ultimecia a "necessary evil" but the game is told from a JRPG perspective where you spend a lot of time building up to fighting her, and actually fighting her is the final gameplay sequence - so i don't really think you can get a pass for making her a complete zero simply because squall doesn't care. the game obviously cares, and the player has to care as well because of her role in the JRPG plot. that said i wasn't too bothered by ultimecia in this plot I'm not saying I dislike Ultimecia or that she might as well not exist. I think she's fine for the purpose she serves. She's just not the primary obstacle in the game. That's been my only point this whole time. --- https://imgur.com/WqDcNNq https://imgur.com/89Z5jrB <cite>Leonhart4 posted [p:958684498] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>SeabassDebeste posted... </cite> <quote>you can call ultimecia a "necessary evil" but the game is told from a JRPG perspective where you spend a lot of time building up to fighting her, and actually fighting her is the final gameplay sequence - so i don't really think you can get a pass for making her a complete zero simply because squall doesn't care. the game obviously cares, and the player has to care as well because of her role in the JRPG plot. that said i wasn't too bothered by ultimecia in this plot</quote> I'm not saying I dislike Ultimecia or that she might as well not exist. I think she's fine for the purpose she serves. She's just not the primary obstacle in the game. That's been my only point this whole time. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pjbasis 10/04/21 2:13:43 PM #90:	yeah idk I think going too much into ultimecia could ruin the mystique she has. She's an evil sorceress from the future who wants to compress all of time. We really don't need to know anything else. It could even muddle the themes of the game to devote needless backstory to someone who's just an Exdeath type villain. --- http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr345/Rakaputra/B8%20Girls%202012/pjbas.png <cite>pjbasis posted [p:958685619] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>yeah idk I think going too much into ultimecia could ruin the mystique she has. She's an evil sorceress from the future who wants to compress all of time. We really don't need to know anything else. It could even muddle the themes of the game to devote needless backstory to someone who's just an Exdeath type villain. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FFDragon 10/04/21 2:41:21 PM #91:	I reiterate though that the Ultimecia scene is the best scene in dissidia --- If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person? #theresafreakingghostafterus <cite>FFDragon posted [p:958686404] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>I reiterate though that the Ultimecia scene is the best scene in dissidia </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Giggsalot 10/04/21 3:09:36 PM #92:	comparing this to murakami is a grievous insult to murakami 4/10, fun at times but a complete mess --- And if you don't know, now you know. <cite>Giggsalot posted [p:958687327] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>comparing this to murakami is a grievous insult to murakami 4/10, fun at times but a complete mess </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Leonhart4 10/04/21 3:34:23 PM #93:	FFDragon posted... I reiterate though that the Ultimecia scene is the best scene in dissidia It's great. And it says a lot that Squall is the only hero in that game ~~who directly kills their villain. There is absolutely no emotional connection holding him back from killing her.~~ --- https://imgur.com/WqDcNNq https://imgur.com/89Z5jrB <cite>Leonhart4 posted [p:958688080] in Rate the V... [t:79691992]...</cite> <quote>FFDragon posted... </cite> <quote>I reiterate though that the Ultimecia scene is the best scene in dissidia</quote> It's great. And it says a lot that Squall is the only hero in that game who directly kills their villain. There is absolutely no emotional connection holding him back from killing her. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Board 8 > Rate the VG Story Day 119: Final Fantasy VIII (+) Yeah! (+)

Board 8 > Rate the VG Story Day 119: Final Fantasy VIII