Board 8 > Rate the VG Story Day 119: Final Fantasy VIII

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Todays game is Final Fantasy VIII. How would you rate the story on a scale from 1-10?

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Previous Results:
Planescape: Torment - 9.83 (12 votes)
Higurashi When They Cry - 9.69 (8 votes)
Omori - 9.67 (6 votes)
Outer Wilds - 9.61 (22 votes)
Silent Hill 2 - 9.5 (20 votes)
Nier Automata - 9.25 (31 votes)
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney: Trials and Tribulations - 9.17 (33 votes)
13 Sentinels: Aegis Rim - 9.1 (14 votes)
The House in Fata Morgana - 9.1 (10 votes)
Red Dead Redemption 2 - 9 (8 votes)
Steins;Gate - 8.94 (9 votes)
Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater - 8.91 (30 votes)
Grim Fandango - 8.88 (13 votes)
Zero Escape: Virtues Last Reward - 8.88 (20 votes)
Return of the Obra Dinn - 8.85 (10 votes)
Silent Hill 4: The Room - 8.83 (6 votes)
Suikoden II - 8.8 (11 votes)
Umineko When They Cry - 8.79 (12 votes)
Persona 3 - 8.75 (21 votes)
Xenogears - 8.71 (23 votes)
Tales of Berseria - 8.69 (14 votes)
Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty 8.67 (31 votes)
Metal Gear Solid - 8.67 (27 votes)
Final Fantasy Tactics - 8.65 (23 votes)
Dragon Quest V - 8.64 (14 votes)
The Legend of Zelda: Majoras Mask - 8.56 (27 votes)
Disco Elysium - 8.56 (16 votes)
Undertale - 8.45 (42 votes)
What Remains of Edith Finch - 8.41 (19 votes)
Yakuza: Like a Dragon - 8.4 (5 votes)
Chrono Trigger - 8.39 (40 votes)
Mass Effect 2 - 8.38 (28 votes)
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic - 8.37 (15 votes)
Final Fantasy X - 8.31 (56 votes)
Final Fantasy VII - 8.28 (37 votes)
Dragon Quest XI - 8.21 (14 votes)
Ghost Trick: Phantom Detective 8.21 (19 votes)
Final Fantasy VI - 8.19 (43 votes)
The Walking Dead Season 1 - 8.17 (21 votes)
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - 8.15 (41 votes)
The Last of Us - 8.13 (35 votes)
Horizon: Zero Dawn - 8.06 (18 votes)
The Wolf Among Us - 8.04 (14 votes)
Xenoblade Chronicles - 7.94 (27 votes)
The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky - 7.94 (16 votes)
Spec Ops: The Line - 7.9 (17 votes)
Bloodborne - 7.88 (20 votes)
Life is Strange - 7.85 (31 votes)
The Sexy Brutale - 7.7 (5 votes)
Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors - 7.69 (31 votes)
Doki Doki Literature Club - 7.66 (26 votes)
Bioshock - 7.64 (23 votes)
Celeste - 7.62 (25 votes)
Skies of Arcadia - 7.54 (14 votes)
Danganronpa 2: Goodbye Despair - 7.5 (30 votes)
The Last Story - 7.47 (6 votes)
Mortal Kombat (2011) - 7.46 (13 votes)
Mass Effect - 7.35 (28 votes)
Tales of Symphonia - 7.34 (28 votes)
Earthbound - 7.33 (19 votes)
Uncharted 2: Among Thieves - 7.26 (29 votes)
Tales of the Abyss - 7.25 (29 votes)
Hotel Dusk: Room 215 - 7.25 (12 votes)
Red Dead Redemption - 7.23 (11 votes)
Danganronpa V3: Killing Harmony - 7.17 (25 votes)
Mass Effect 3 - 7.16 (21 votes)
Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots - 7.11 (23 votes)
Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars - 7.1 (30 votes)
To the Moon - 7.07 (7 votes)
Super Paper Mario - 7.04 (23 votes)
Assassins Creed II - 7.04 (13 votes)
The Vanishing of Ethan Carter - 7 (5 votes)
Hollow Knight - 6.98 (21 votes)
INSIDE - 6.93 (15 votes)
Gone Home - 6.91 (17 votes)
Bioshock Infinite - 6.87 (19 votes)
The World Ends With You - 6.79 (24 votes)
Death Stranding - 6.73 (13 votes)
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney: Justice For All - 6.68 (32 votes)
Firewatch - 6.65 (10 votes)
Dark Souls - 6.62 (20 votes)
Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc - 6.61 (29 votes)
Chrono Cross - 6.56 (17 votes)
Valkyria Chronicles - 6.5 (16 votes)
Xenoblade Chronicles 2 - 6.5 (13 votes)
Resident Evil 7: Biohazard - 6.38 (12 votes)
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time - 6.34 (35 votes)
Professor Layton and the Curious Village - 6.16 (14 votes)
DOOM (2016) - 6.15 (13 votes)
Tales of Vesperia - 6.13 (23 votes)
Star Fox 64 - 5.8 (25 votes)
Uncharted 3: Drakes Deception - 5.8 (24 votes)
Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice - 5.72 (9 votes)
Final Fantasy IV - 5.78 (30 votes)
Metroid Prime - 5.67 (24 votes)
Kingdom Hearts - 5.51 (31 votes)
The Wonderful 101 - 5.5 (4 votes)
The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword - 5.63 (13 votes)
Professor Layton and the Diabolical Box - 5.33 (9 votes)
Grand Theft Auto IV - 5.27 (13 votes)
Uncharted: Drakes Fortune - 5.26 (28 votes)
Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney - 4.93 (23 votes)
Fire Emblem Fates: Birthright - 4.85 (13 votes)
Final Fantasy XIII - 4.79 (29 votes)
Final Fantasy X-2 - 4.79 (19 votes)
Final Fantasy XV - 4.79 (19 votes)
Fallout 3 - 4.76 (17 votes)
Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty - 4.72 (9 votes)
Super Smash Bros. Brawl - 4.64 (40 votes)
Fallout 4 - 4.43 (15 votes)
Final Fantasy - 4.24 (19 votes)
Metal Gear Solid: Portable Ops - 3.89 (9 votes)
Resident Evil 6 - 3.74 (17 votes)
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance - 3.69 (13 votes)
Starcraft II (overall) - 3.4 (5 votes)
Fire Emblem Fates: Conquest - 3.31 (16 votes)
Dissidia: Final Fantasy - 3.29 (12 votes)
Fire Emblem Fates (overall) - 3.29 (12 votes)
Starcraft II: Legacy of the Void - 2.83 (6 votes)
Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) - 2.66 (16 votes)
Starcraft II: Heart of the Swarm - 2.57 (7 votes)
Fire Emblem Fates: Revelation - 2.4 (10 votes)
Tales of Zestiria - 2.38 (8 votes)

Needs more votes:
Torment: Tides of Numenera

You can still rate previous days games if you missed them, just write <game name><rating>. If you want to change your rating you can just specify that you are changing your rating. Nominations for future days are also welcome, nominate as many games as you like and I will get to all of them.

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10/10

There's nothing quite like Squall's personal journey and inner turmoil in gaming. I doubt anything will ever top it for me.

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6.5/10

Not really the most interesting of Final Fantasies. The structure is interesting however and Squall is a compelling lead.

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8.5

on paper I should love FF8's story for its overall weirdness/magical realism-inspired narrative. I definitely hated it the first playthrough and gradually came to appreciate it more. I still think it makes some questionable decisions and the non-main characters are really bad by final fantasy standards. it's a murakami novel forced to be a final fantasy game.

6/10

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10

Maybe I'll make a post later

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First 2 disks. 10/10.

We dont need to talk about the last 2 disks

6

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5

4.5/10

I want to like this, but I don't know. Squall and Rinoa are great, but I don't really like any of the other characters and the main plot itself can be a pretty big mess at times.
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5

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10

My favourite game of all time, and the story is a huge part of that

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6.5

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10/10

This is a Rocky IV scenario. The highs are ridiculously high, and I have no problem overlooking the story's technical flaws because of it.

LeonhartFour posted...

There's nothing quite like Squall's personal journey and inner turmoil in gaming. I doubt anything will ever top it for me.

Thanks. Saved me from having to type that up. I've never connected with a character in any medium like I did with Squall, and that's why this story shines so brightly for me.

Also, I genuinely LOVE the plot. It's bats*** crazy and imaginative, taking risks everywhere it goes. Unfinished? Yes. But there's something special about the "first draft" quality of FF8.

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colliding posted...

it's a murakami novel forced to be a final fantasy game.

@colliding

Damn. I need to give Murakami another shot. I read Kafka on the Shore a few years back. It was good, but didn't wow me.

What would you recommend for an FF8 fan?


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I don't know if I'd argue FFVIII is unfinished. Rushed, maybe, but I think Ultimecia being a nothing character is deliberate because she's not the main conflict of the game. Squall does not care about her at all and thus he gives her no brain space.

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plasmabeam posted...

@colliding

Damn. I need to give Murakami another shot. I read Kafka on the Shore a few years back. It was good, but didn't wow me.

What would you recommend for an FF8 fan?

wind up bird chronicle I guess

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LeonhartFour posted...

I don't know if I'd argue FFVIII is unfinished. Rushed, maybe, but I think Ultimecia being a nothing character is deliberate because she's not the main conflict of the game. Squall does not care about her at all and thus he gives her no brain space.

She drives the conflict by controlling every other sorceress.

Shame we never got more out of Ultimecia. A little backstory and motivation would've gone a long way.

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That is not the primary conflict of the game. Squall's inner turmoil is the primary conflict of the game, and the game goes out of its way to drive this home.

In the scene when Ultimecia is first mentioned, the screen is black and all of Squall's thoughts about Rinoa are front and center on the screen. All the discussion about Ultimecia is on the outside edge of the screen, as if Squall is barely even paying attention to it. It doesn't even signify who's speaking.

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LeonhartFour posted...

I don't know if I'd argue FFVIII is unfinished. Rushed, maybe, but I think Ultimecia being a nothing character is deliberate because she's not the main conflict of the game. Squall does not care about her at all and thus he gives her no brain space.

Shes the only conflict of the game. Maybe Norg? Every last other issue in the game is directly Ultimecia. The Galbadian Millitary, Seifer, Esthers secrecy, Ellone screwing with your mind, the Gardens at war, Edea, Rinoa, Adel, The Moons tear, everything is her.

6

Has good points, but I feel like there's too much weird/bad stuff that can't be handwaved away by 'Squall's inner conflict is the real plot'. Lots of other stories have the main character's inner conflict be the real plot while still making sure their background plot makes sense.

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10

Easy

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KamikazePotato posted...

6

Has good points, but I feel like there's too much weird/bad stuff that can't be handwaved away by 'Squall's inner conflict is the real plot'. Lots of other stories have the main character's inner conflict be the real plot while still making sure their background plot makes sense.

I mean, I get it.

I just don't care.

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And Ultimecia is great! Especially the weirdly translated Deling City speech.

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FFDragon posted...

And Ultimecia is great! Especially the weirdly translated Deling City speech.

It still kind of blows my mind that her speech contains a Final Fantasy title drop and the translation team totally missed it

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6.5

Leonhart4 posted...

It still kind of blows my mind that her speech contains a Final Fantasy title drop and the translation team totally missed it

Elaborate please?

Escape into your own fantasies!
I shall continue to dance for your world of illusions!
I shall dance for eternity as the witch who brings you dread!
You and I.
Together, we shall create the final fantasy.
Within are life and death and sweet dreams.
The witch travels toward the eternal illusion!
The witch and Galbadia on to eternity!]

I have waited for this day to come. And also feared this day would come. Is today a joyous day? Or an odious day?

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MooglesRUs posted...

Elaborate please?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/197343-final-fantasy-viii/43179495

An old topic but even there, this user translates it as "ultimate fantasy" when it's meant to be "final fantasy"

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6

Squall is hot at least.

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7/10

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LeonhartFour posted...

There's nothing quite like Squall's personal journey and inner turmoil in gaming.

What about the rest of it

ChainLTTP posted...

What about the rest of it

Also great but it'd still be a 10 even if it wasn't

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5.5/10

I want to like this...
I really want to like this...
But between Seifer's "rivalry" with Squall, Squall and Rinoa, and the end of Disc 2 and Disc 3 in general...

nope.

Laguna can't save this.

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https://open.spotify.com/episode/5Nd5aZdCemRy7Ac3vNe4pI?si=AmcE7uL5QPqfYJgUBkLQ-Q&utm_source=copy-link&dl_branch=1

Also currently listening to this and it's fantastic

LeonhartFour posted...

That is not the primary conflict of the game. Squall's inner turmoil is the primary conflict of the game, and the game goes out of its way to drive this home.

Internal conflict and external conflict are both critical to any story. You need both because they work together to give a story meaning (internal) and impact (external). In most good stories, the external conflict often reflects the internal conflict in some way--like how Joel from TLOU traverses a ruined external world after his personal/internal world is ruined by his daughter's death in the prologue.

Ultimecia drives the external conflict.

Squall confronts his internal conflict and character flaws while dealing with his external challenges.

If you remove one of the other, you lose the story. So they're both primary.


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They can't both be primary. Ultimecia is the primary external conflict, sure, but she's just an enemy to defeat for Squall. He does not care about her and so he dedicates no time to learning about her or understanding her. It does not matter to him.

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In fact, Squall completely takes a break from the external conflict for about half of Disc 3. It isn't until Ultimecia hijacks Rinoa that he starts caring about it again, and at that point, all he cares about is killing her. She has lost any opportunity in his eyes to be anything more than that.

Regardless, the internal drives the external, so the internal is primary.

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Squall's external conflict involves confronting sorceresses, all of whom are controlled by Ultimecia at some point. Because of this, Ultimecia is far more than an enemy to defeat--she's the mastermind that sets the main conflict in motion. Without her actions, you don't have a plot.

Whether or not Squall cares to learn about her is irrelevant. She creates obstacles that force him to change. That's the job of a villain.

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Ff8 particularly stresses the internal. It of course has both, but you don't need to care about Ultimecia all that much. It never feels disappointing because the game doesn't build up those elements much.

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plasmabeam posted...

Internal conflict and external conflict are both critical to any story.

I don't think this is true for the record. You can easily tell a story about one or the other.
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plasmabeam posted...

Squall's external conflict involves confronting sorceresses, all of whom are controlled by Ultimecia at some point. Because of this, Ultimecia is far more than an enemy to defeat--she's the mastermind that sets the main conflict in motion. Without her actions, you don't have a plot.

Whether or not Squall cares to learn about her is irrelevant. She creates obstacles that force him to change. That's the job of a villain.

I'm not arguing the external conflict does not exist or that the game would function without it. My argument is that Ultimecia is the bad guy and nothing more. The game didn't just run out of space to tell a story about her. The game deliberately chose not to tell a story about her. You can find out things about her if you dig, but the game intentionally makes you dig for it.

Rinoa creates the obstacles that force Squall to change more than Ultimecia does. Ultimecia is just a reflection of his growth.

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Leonhart4 posted...

In fact, Squall completely takes a break from the external conflict for about half of Disc 3. It isn't until Ultimecia hijacks Rinoa that he starts caring about it again, and at that point, all he cares about is killing her. She has lost any opportunity in his eyes to be anything more than that.

Regardless, the internal drives the external, so the internal is primary.

Rinoa is directly linked to the main plot involving sorceresses. FF8's romantic subplot actually weaves nicely with the main plot, giving us a breather while still remaining relevant.

Again, I disagree on the idea that the internal is primary. If you remove the external conflict, Squall has no reason to change. He would literally do nothing but allow thoughts to cross his mind. In that case, there would be no stakes, no consequences, no way of measuring his character growth.

You need both.

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Rinoa is linked to the plot about sorceresses by becoming one.

And if you remove the internal conflict, FFVIII ceases to be a compelling game. Squall becomes a generic hero.

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Leonhart4 posted...

I'm not arguing the external conflict does not exist or that the game would function without it. My argument is that Ultimecia is the bad guy and nothing more. The game didn't just run out of space to tell a story about her. The game deliberately chose not to tell a story about her. You can find out things about her if you dig, but the game intentionally makes you dig for it.

I'm not sure what you mean exactly by "the bad guy and nothing more." Are you suggesting she's just a boss battle like Necron in FF9? Or would you say she's more akin to someone like Palpatine in Return of the Jedi?

Rinoa creates the obstacles that force Squall to change more than Ultimecia does. Ultimecia is just a reflection of his growth.

Absolutely. Rinoa's romantic subplot forces Squall to change, but they only travel together because of the conflict that Ultimecia has set in motion. If you remove Ultimecia and her influence on the story, Squall remains stuck in everyday life running low-stakes SeeD missions instead of going after Edea.

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plasmabeam posted...

I'm not sure what you mean exactly by "the bad guy and nothing more." Are you suggesting she's just a boss battle like Necron in FF9? Or would you say she's more akin to someone like Palpatine in Return of the Jedi?

Absolutely. Rinoa's romantic subplot forces Squall to change, but they only travel together because of the conflict that Ultimecia has set in motion. If you remove Ultimecia and her influence on the story, Squall remains stuck in everyday life running low-stakes SeeD missions instead of going after Edea.

I know Leon doesnt believe it, and its his topic, but I will fucking die on the hill that Necron either IS the actual Iifa tree/Soul Cage, or is what the Iifa tree was taken from, but on a cosmic level.

Yes, Ultimecia provides the framing within which the story takes place, but that conflict isn't why anyone cares about the game. It is not the primary conflict that drives the story forward or that instigates Squall's character development. Ultimecia only provides the context for it to happen. As a character, she doesn't matter to Squall or the game.

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Leonhart4 posted...

Rinoa is linked to the plot about sorceresses by becoming one.

And if you remove the internal conflict, FFVIII ceases to be a compelling game. Squall becomes a generic hero.

100% agree. Squall's internal conflict is why I love the story as much as I do.

Here's something to think about: Squall's internal struggle is the primary internal conflict. The sorceress plot is the primary external conflict. That said, it doesn't make sense to say that either is the primary conflict because a story's conflict is a mix of internal and external.

However, you might say there is more emphasis on Squall's internal struggle than on the sorceress plot, and I would agree with you there.


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Squall's growth is a constant focus throughout the game. You aren't even aware Ultimecia exists for half the game, although she is around.

If the internal conflict is more emphasized, that means it's the primary conflict. It's the story the game wants to tell more than any other. Ultimecia is a necessary evil because FFVIII is an RPG and not a visual novel.

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